Homebrew PCBs

If someone knows about OrCAD, can one select an ASCII or text printer
driver?  This of course implies that one can change fonts i OrCAD.  If
yes, how low can the resulotuion (DPI) be set?  The tactile printer to
which I hope to send the schematic plans has about a 20DPI resolution, and
it is a text-based printer.

Thanks,
Chares

On Wed, 18 Feb 2004 06:49:57 -0500 (EST), <dg140@...> 
wrote:

> If someone knows about OrCAD, can one select an ASCII or text printer
> driver?  This of course implies that one can change fonts i OrCAD.  If
> yes, how low can the resulotuion (DPI) be set?  The tactile printer to
> which I hope to send the schematic plans has about a 20DPI resolution, 
> and
> it is a text-based printer.
>
> Thanks,
> Chares
>
>

I know a bit about orcad, but none about such old printers.

I know orcad uses the windows printer interface very well.
so if you get this printer working properly in windows it will not be a 
problem.
but 20dpi, i mean, you know, printers ain't THAT expensive at ebay...


The orcad Schematics i have ONLY uses the windows printer interface.
i can set the resolution to 75dpi minimum (but this depends on the printer
installed in windows).

the orcad layout has some other options.
(not using the windows interface)
but i always print with the laser now and this works perfectly with the 
windows
printer.


I really wonder what you are up to.
(How do you want to print a schematic with a ascii printer???)
maybe you want to use a "ascii art" schematic drawing program.
then you can send the schematic out as a text file.
but then it is only ugly ascii art.


As said, my orcad schematics (capture) only uses the windows interface.
there i can select all printers i have installed in windows.

regards

ST

Hi ST.  At this point, the tactile printers used by the blind (who feel
rather than see the diagrams) must receive an ascii signal set.  Crazy I
know, but the manufacturers still build them this way.  In order to use
them in Windows, you must either use a special interface program which is
worse than drawing something by hand without your plastic eyes in, or at
least select the text driver in windows and fiddle with it from there. 
The tactile printers (Braille embossers with higher resolution for
graphics) simply do not directly dance in Windows.  Hence, the need for an
ascii driver in ORCAD, and likely a low DPI by ink standdards.  I can use
a laser or plotter for standard stuff, but a text driver is needed for the
tactile printouts, and even then I'm not certain that it will work.  with
one exception, the embossers' companies do ot plan to build a
Windows-compatible printer.  Imagine that eh.

Charles

--

>On Wed, 18 Feb 2004 06:49:57 -0500 (EST), <dg140@...> 
>wrote:
>
>> If someone knows about OrCAD, can one select an ASCII or text printer
>> driver?  This of course implies that one can change fonts i OrCAD.  If
>> yes, how low can the resulotuion (DPI) be set?  The tactile printer to
>> which I hope to send the schematic plans has about a 20DPI resolution, 
>> and
>> it is a text-based printer.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Chares
>>
>>
>
>I know a bit about orcad, but none about such old printers.
>
>I know orcad uses the windows printer interface very well.
>so if you get this printer working properly in windows it will not be a 
>problem.
>but 20dpi, i mean, you know, printers ain't THAT expensive at ebay...
>
>
>The orcad Schematics i have ONLY uses the windows printer interface.
>i can set the resolution to 75dpi minimum (but this depends on the printer
>installed in windows).
>
>the orcad layout has some other options.
>(not using the windows interface)
>but i always print with the laser now and this works perfectly with the 
>windows
>printer.
>
>
>I really wonder what you are up to.
>(How do you want to print a schematic with a ascii printer???)
>maybe you want to use a "ascii art" schematic drawing program.
>then you can send the schematic out as a text file.
>but then it is only ugly ascii art.
>
>
>As said, my orcad schematics (capture) only uses the windows interface.
>there i can select all printers i have installed in windows.
>
>regards
>
>ST
>
>
>Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and files:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs 
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>

On Wed, 18 Feb 2004 10:27:16 -0500 (EST), <dg140@...> 
wrote:

> Hi ST.  At this point, the tactile printers used by the blind (who feel
> rather than see the diagrams) must receive an ascii signal set.  Crazy I
> know, but the manufacturers still build them this way.  In order to use
> them in Windows, you must either use a special interface program which is
> worse than drawing something by hand without your plastic eyes in, or at
> least select the text driver in windows and fiddle with it from there.
> The tactile printers (Braille embossers with higher resolution for
> graphics) simply do not directly dance in Windows.  Hence, the need for 
> an
> ascii driver in ORCAD, and likely a low DPI by ink standdards.  I can use
> a laser or plotter for standard stuff, but a text driver is needed for 
> the
> tactile printouts, and even then I'm not certain that it will work.  with
> one exception, the embossers' companies do ot plan to build a
> Windows-compatible printer.  Imagine that eh.
>
> Charles


Now i see reason for that....
Well, i know nothing about tactile printers.
(honestly i didn't know the word and just read over it -
didn't ask the dictionary the first time)
Don't they have any "graphics" mode like the old needle printers?
You maybe can print to file and then try to convert
it to something useful. look for the "asci art" programms, maybe you could
convert it to ascii. you can also export EDIF and DXF from orcad capture.

how does the printer work? like an needle printer?
I remember from needle printer times that ther was software to print
"graphics" with them...

st

I did some reading,

what about that:

http://www.nctd.org.uk/MakingTG/swell.asp

it seems to be a possible solution.
No idea what they charge for the paper....

st

The tactile (Braille) embossers I know of all use a hammer to impact the
dots on the paper.  The follow the raster method.  The hammer or pin
punches into a die cup (as part of the platten), and the paper gets
embossed.  This basic apprach hasn't changed much in 25 years, although of
course the printers have become better and faster.  But, their hapless
protocols have simply not updated with the times.  It is almost
impossible, or at least extremely difficult, to get one to work with a CAD
program, or any type of CNC firmware setup.  The only tactile or Braille
printers which are compatible with Windows are the Tiger printers from
Viewplus: www.viewplus.com.  With one of those beasties, it would be much,
much easier to do the ORCAD job; just a few resizings, and the labels
should be in a certain font supplied with that type of printer.  Not so,
alas, with the other types of Braille/tactile printers.

Charles

---

>Now i see reason for that....
>Well, i know nothing about tactile printers.
>(honestly i didn't know the word and just read over it -
>didn't ask the dictionary the first time)
>Don't they have any "graphics" mode like the old needle printers?
>You maybe can print to file and then try to convert
>it to something useful. look for the "asci art" programms, maybe you could
>convert it to ascii. you can also export EDIF and DXF from orcad capture.
>
>how does the printer work? like an needle printer?
>I remember from needle printer times that ther was software to print
>"graphics" with them...
>
>st

Th swell paper is useful for general diagrams such roads and vague
outlines.  The lines are clear, but soft and fat, so detail is hard to do
with this type of paper.  One must blow the printed OrCAD (or whatever)
copy up, and also redo the text labels.  this paper requires a special
"burner" to cause the tiny bubbles which coat the paper to expand under
intense heat, and it is these bubbles which form the tactile image the
reader feels.  I tried to use an intense light once and focus it on the
darkened surfaces of the swell paper (the dark parts have the image ink on
them), but no go.  The burner--like a toaster almost--is needed.  I've
heard of people using a laser printer for the job, but others fear that
the paper would melt inside the laser printer.

Charles

---

>I did some reading,
>
>what about that:
>
>http://www.nctd.org.uk/MakingTG/swell.asp
>
>it seems to be a possible solution.
>No idea what they charge for the paper....
>
>st

On Wed, 18 Feb 2004 13:10:41 -0500 (EST), <dg140@...> 
wrote:

> Th swell paper is useful for general diagrams such roads and vague
> outlines.  The lines are clear, but soft and fat, so detail is hard to do
> with this type of paper.  One must blow the printed OrCAD (or whatever)
> copy up, and also redo the text labels.  this paper requires a special
> "burner" to cause the tiny bubbles which coat the paper to expand under
> intense heat, and it is these bubbles which form the tactile image the
> reader feels.  I tried to use an intense light once and focus it on the
> darkened surfaces of the swell paper (the dark parts have the image ink 
> on
> them), but no go.  The burner--like a toaster almost--is needed.  I've
> heard of people using a laser printer for the job, but others fear that
> the paper would melt inside the laser printer.
>
> Charles
>
> ---
>

i think the fuser of a laser printer would certainly heat it, but wouldn't 
then
the whole surface swell?

ST

Not sure.  I know that the light is absorbed ony by the dark, ink-laden
areas on the swell paper.  Perhaps they directly printed the image onto
the swell paper as though it were a regular page.  The fonts would have
had to be increased in size, and the labels made in Braille-shaped
characteers.

Charles

---

>then
>the whole surface swell?
>
>ST

On Wed, 18 Feb 2004 13:49:47 -0500 (EST), <dg140@...> 
wrote:

> Not sure.  I know that the light is absorbed ony by the dark, ink-laden
> areas on the swell paper.  Perhaps they directly printed the image onto
> the swell paper as though it were a regular page. The fonts would have
> had to be increased in size, and the labels made in Braille-shaped
> characteers.

you would need to edit the librarys, that would be easy.
I guess there is a Braille-font for windows?
you can choose the font and size used for the text near the components.
it is required for each part individually, but it is only one-time work.

If you could get a plotter or cnc to print some embossed image in 
paper.....

i just tried if the dxf export works, it does fine i orcad 9.2.
it is not far from DXF to a .PLT or a file for a CNC.

The "swelling paper" has alcohol in the microcapsules, right?
this is most likely why it works in a inkjet - some have alcohol containing
colors. maybe it doesn't even need to break open the microcapsules, maybe
the alcohol in the ink itself makes it swell?

have you tried plotting with alcohol?
it would be easy on paper.

It would also be no problem at all to fit a "hot pen" to a plotter.
a 12v miniature soldering iron (dollar store) is bound to work fine.
it would be more than light enough for a simple plotter.

I only have seen the image of the drawing on this page, i have no idea how 
narrow
resolution you could get with swelling paper if the tip is small enough.


definitely interesting topic...

Also look at the netlist files.
I have a hard time imagining that all, but i had the following thought:
if one can't see the schematic, but feel it on the paper, he has to make
a kind of picture of it in the head, right?
I guess it's somehow like "tracing the wires and remembering them".
Well, for a simple circuit, it might be even easier to just read the 
connections
of a netlist.
Don't know if this is anything to follow further...
I think it depends a lot on what you want to do with the schematics then.
(e.g. i know one who always enters the netlist for pspice simulation.
he has learned this somewhere in the far past and is much faster than with 
drawing
the schematic.)

I myself like to work without a schematic (on paper).
I do this much less since i have fast and easy pcb making process.
(it is less work to make the pcb than do it on a veroboard now,
and this requires making the schematic first)
But during school i used to drive my teachers crazy by working without a 
schematic.
(we had to build circuits then ranging from simple wall installation to
more complicated logic or analog circuits).
It always worked, so they didn't manage to force me drawing a schematic.

Well, tell me what you think about the "alcohol plotting" stuff..

ST

>
> Charles
>
> ---
>
>> then
>> the whole surface swell?
>>
>> ST
>
>
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and files:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

The swell paper does not lend itself to fine lines.  The hot pen would and
does in deed work, althoug I've never tried with alcohol.  The soldering
pencio is hot, but the swell paper actually absorbs light energy, and I
think it morphs badly under the intense direct heat.  I haven't used it
lately, but it was at that time about a dollar a sheet.

Actually, a netlist is not too far removed from the verbal schematics we
blind folks use an write.  The verbal schematic is simply a description of
what connects to what, done in a logical, sensible preesentation.  It has
several advantages over conventional symbolic schematics.  However, most
engineers are not good communicatorsz, and fewer still are creative.  So,
most ask: "Well, where do I start?  There are so many nodes here!"
The verbal schematic technique can abe applied to simple circuits, or to
complex logic and analogue circuits including those fierce PLLD designs.

Charles

---

>you would need to edit the librarys, that would be easy.
>I guess there is a Braille-font for windows?
>you can choose the font and size used for the text near the components.
>it is required for each part individually, but it is only one-time work.
>
>If you could get a plotter or cnc to print some embossed image in 
>paper.....
>
>i just tried if the dxf export works, it does fine i orcad 9.2.
>it is not far from DXF to a .PLT or a file for a CNC.
>
>The "swelling paper" has alcohol in the microcapsules, right?
>this is most likely why it works in a inkjet - some have alcohol containing
>colors. maybe it doesn't even need to break open the microcapsules, maybe
>the alcohol in the ink itself makes it swell?
>
>have you tried plotting with alcohol?
>it would be easy on paper.
>
>It would also be no problem at all to fit a "hot pen" to a plotter.
>a 12v miniature soldering iron (dollar store) is bound to work fine.
>it would be more than light enough for a simple plotter.
>
>I only have seen the image of the drawing on this page, i have no idea how 
>narrow
>resolution you could get with swelling paper if the tip is small enough.
>
>
>definitely interesting topic...
>
>Also look at the netlist files.
>I have a hard time imagining that all, but i had the following thought:
>if one can't see the schematic, but feel it on the paper, he has to make
>a kind of picture of it in the head, right?
>I guess it's somehow like "tracing the wires and remembering them".
>Well, for a simple circuit, it might be even easier to just read the 
>connections
>of a netlist.
>Don't know if this is anything to follow further...
>I think it depends a lot on what you want to do with the schematics then.
>(e.g. i know one who always enters the netlist for pspice simulation.
>he has learned this somewhere in the far past and is much faster than with 
>drawing
>the schematic.)
>
>I myself like to work without a schematic (on paper).
>I do this much less since i have fast and easy pcb making process.
>(it is less work to make the pcb than do it on a veroboard now,
>and this requires making the schematic first)
>But during school i used to drive my teachers crazy by working without a 
>schematic.
>(we had to build circuits then ranging from simple wall installation to
>more complicated logic or analog circuits).
>It always worked, so they didn't manage to force me drawing a schematic.
>
>Well, tell me what you think about the "alcohol plotting" stuff..
>
>ST
>
>
>
>>
>> Charles
>>
>> ---
>>
>>> then
>>> the whole surface swell?
>>>
>>> ST
>>
>>
>>
>> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and files:
>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and files:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs 
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>

> Actually, a netlist is not too far removed from the verbal schematics we
> blind folks use an write.  The verbal schematic is simply a description 
> of
> what connects to what, done in a logical, sensible preesentation.  It has
> several advantages over conventional symbolic schematics.  However, most
> engineers are not good communicatorsz, and fewer still are creative.  So,
> most ask: "Well, where do I start?  There are so many nodes here!"
> The verbal schematic technique can abe applied to simple circuits, or to
> complex logic and analogue circuits including those fierce PLLD designs.
>
> Charles
>

I feared that the paper is no good for fine lines (paper fibers and such).

the verbal schematic thing sound to me very like netlists.

look at how vhdl / verilog is handles by companies like xilinx.
they have software converting the descriptive language to a schematic and 
vice
versa. this would definitely be good for showing any engineer a verbal 
schematic.
(converted to a autogenerated schematic).

the other way around would be much harder to make a software for...


what do you plan to use orcad for? mostly schematics or pspice and vhdl 
and such too?

ST

I plan to use ORCAD for schematic entry, no pspice and such, at least I
don't plan to.  I might get out of the field eventually and take up
organic gardening; build a very special green house and try not to think
of a PCB and such.

Charles

---

>I feared that the paper is no good for fine lines (paper fibers and such).
>
>the verbal schematic thing sound to me very like netlists.
>
>look at how vhdl / verilog is handles by companies like xilinx.
>they have software converting the descriptive language to a schematic and 
>vice
>versa. this would definitely be good for showing any engineer a verbal 
>schematic.
>(converted to a autogenerated schematic).
>
>the other way around would be much harder to make a software for...
>
>
>what do you plan to use orcad for? mostly schematics or pspice and vhdl 
>and such too?
>
>ST
>
>
>Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and files:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs 
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>

On Thu, 19 Feb 2004 05:38:42 -0500 (EST), <dg140@...> 
wrote:

> I plan to use ORCAD for schematic entry, no pspice and such, at least I
> don't plan to.  I might get out of the field eventually and take up
> organic gardening; build a very special green house and try not to think
> of a PCB and such.
>
> Charles
>


Hi Charles, maybe then you could use a ascii art editor?

look at this one:
http://www.tech-chat.de/

it is a german webpage but the software is english.

You can download the file directly at
http://www.tech-chat.de/files/AACircuit124.zip

I will certainly install it, i often have the need to send a quick 
schematic with a mail.
maybe this is faster than orcad and saving as a image....

ST