Homebrew PCBs

I just had another look at the awesome results Pedro was getting 
from his process.  In digging up his messages, he said he used pages 
from Time magazine, and a DSC laminator.  I couldn't believe it!  So 
simple, and yet so effective.  Pedro, I wrote you a mail to your 
Yahoo address if you're reading this asking more about it :).  Does 
anybody else use a laminator, or magazine pages for that matter?  Is 
there something special about Time that makes it better?  I tried it 
with an issue of Design magazine and an iron, and I got okay results 
right from the start.  I keep having a problem though.  When I use 
heavy pressure, I get all the pattern transfered, but I end up 
getting smashed areas, where fine lines and text gets squashed out 
further than intended.  When I use light to moderate pressure, I get 
nice crisp fine lines, but some large areas have holes (little spots 
where the toner doesn't transfer).  Does anybody have any 
suggestions?  The laminator seems like a novel idea.  I searched for 
DSC on EBay, but couldn't find one.  Anybody else use one?

-Josh

I have sent you a message explaining with very much detail how I make
the boards, If anyone else is interested I'll post it on the list, or hang
it in the files section, or wherever you find it helpful. The DSC laminator
just was a mistake, I had been looking for drivers for my DSC sony camera
and had those letters in mind when I wrote the message. The laminator is
actually a GBC model Docuseal 95P.

    I had the same problems with pressure when I did TT with the iron, You
don't need to apply much pressure, I think the point is in applying even
pressure. What I really know is that with the laminator I don't have those
problems anymore. Actually I have been able to do a little bit lower than
8mil tolerances. The limit I have observed is 3.2 mil wide tracks and 5 mils
clearance, but it has been with about 5 sq.inch. boards, so I thought it
would be difficult to obtain these results in larger boards so I set all the
boards I do to 8-8 mils, which I find is more than fine and can do it
without complications and with good repeatibility. One thing to keep in mind
is to make pads big enough to make drilling and soldering easy, as Stefan
suggested.

    Pedro
  -----Mensaje original-----
  De: joshdewinter [mailto:joshdewinter@...]
  Enviado el: viernes, 09 de enero de 2004 7:14
  Para: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
  Asunto: [Homebrew_PCBs] Time magazine pages and a laminator lead to
awesome results --> Pedro


    I just had another look at the awesome results Pedro was getting
  from his process.  In digging up his messages, he said he used pages
  from Time magazine, and a DSC laminator.  I couldn't believe it!  So
  simple, and yet so effective.  Pedro, I wrote you a mail to your
  Yahoo address if you're reading this asking more about it :).  Does
  anybody else use a laminator, or magazine pages for that matter?  Is
  there something special about Time that makes it better?  I tried it
  with an issue of Design magazine and an iron, and I got okay results
  right from the start.  I keep having a problem though.  When I use
  heavy pressure, I get all the pattern transfered, but I end up
  getting smashed areas, where fine lines and text gets squashed out
  further than intended.  When I use light to moderate pressure, I get
  nice crisp fine lines, but some large areas have holes (little spots
  where the toner doesn't transfer).  Does anybody have any
  suggestions?  The laminator seems like a novel idea.  I searched for
  DSC on EBay, but couldn't find one.  Anybody else use one?

  -Josh



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  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Fri, 9 Jan 2004 18:14:44 +0100, Pedro Perez de Ayala Rull 
<payala@...> wrote:

> I have sent you a message explaining with very much detail how I make
> the boards, If anyone else is interested I'll post it on the list, or 
> hang
> it in the files section, or wherever you find it helpful. The DSC 
> laminator
> just was a mistake, I had been looking for drivers for my DSC sony camera
> and had those letters in mind when I wrote the message. The laminator is
> actually a GBC model Docuseal 95P.
>
> I had the same problems with pressure when I did TT with the iron, You
> don't need to apply much pressure, I think the point is in applying even
> pressure. What I really know is that with the laminator I don't have 
> those
> problems anymore. Actually I have been able to do a little bit lower than
> 8mil tolerances. The limit I have observed is 3.2 mil wide tracks and 5 
> mils
> clearance, but it has been with about 5 sq.inch. boards, so I thought it
> would be difficult to obtain these results in larger boards so I set all 
> the
> boards I do to 8-8 mils, which I find is more than fine and can do it
> without complications and with good repeatibility. One thing to keep in 
> mind
> is to make pads big enough to make drilling and soldering easy, as Stefan
> suggested.
>
> Pedro


Please, in the files section with it!
If you did write it up, we should at least get most out of
your work..

thx

Yes, I realized that it was a bit useless question, so I started moving it
to pdf right after posting the message before. Ill put the pdf in the TT8mil
directory.

	Pedro

-----Mensaje original-----
De: Stefan Trethan [mailto:stefan_trethan@...]
Enviado el: viernes, 09 de enero de 2004 18:19
Para: homebrew_pcbs@yahoogroups.com
Asunto: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Time magazine pages and a laminator lead to
awesome results --> Pedro


On Fri, 9 Jan 2004 18:14:44 +0100, Pedro Perez de Ayala Rull
<payala@...> wrote:

> I have sent you a message explaining with very much detail how I make
> the boards, If anyone else is interested I'll post it on the list, or
> hang
> it in the files section, or wherever you find it helpful. The DSC
> laminator
> just was a mistake, I had been looking for drivers for my DSC sony camera
> and had those letters in mind when I wrote the message. The laminator is
> actually a GBC model Docuseal 95P.
>
> I had the same problems with pressure when I did TT with the iron, You
> don't need to apply much pressure, I think the point is in applying even
> pressure. What I really know is that with the laminator I don't have
> those
> problems anymore. Actually I have been able to do a little bit lower than
> 8mil tolerances. The limit I have observed is 3.2 mil wide tracks and 5
> mils
> clearance, but it has been with about 5 sq.inch. boards, so I thought it
> would be difficult to obtain these results in larger boards so I set all
> the
> boards I do to 8-8 mils, which I find is more than fine and can do it
> without complications and with good repeatibility. One thing to keep in
> mind
> is to make pads big enough to make drilling and soldering easy, as Stefan
> suggested.
>
> Pedro


Please, in the files section with it!
If you did write it up, we should at least get most out of
your work..

thx

Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and files:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs


Yahoo! Groups Links

To visit your group on the web, go to:
 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs/

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
 Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
 http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Pedro Perez de Ayala Rull"
<payala@y...> wrote:
> 
> 	Yes, I realized that it was a bit useless question, so I started
moving it
> to pdf right after posting the message before. Ill put the pdf in
the TT8mil
> directory.

Very nice! Thanks for posting that. So much gets lost in the list
archives.

I'm going to change the name of the folder, though, so it means more
to someone just arriving here and looking through the Files section.
Transfer_Toner_8mil

This should be a reminder to everyone- look in the Files and Links
section before you ask a question. And don't be afraid to search the
archives. Especially if you've just joined.

I see a round of Q&A about drilling before or after etching. There was
a thread on this about a month ago. Same for CNC hole drilling.

I'm not saying don't ask- please do! But take a look in the archives,
files, links, and photos first.

And a reiteration about the Photos area- it is for small images only.
No matter how large you upload, all anyone else sees is a 300x400 size
image, only you (the uploader) can see the larger image.

Steve, moderatin' moderator

PS Trim those replies! Yahoogroups starts dropping messages and it
makes it harder to search the archives when you get a dozen "me, too"
and "Yeah, I agree" for every post with substance.

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "joshdewinter" 
<joshdewinter@y...> wrote:
> simple, and yet so effective.  Pedro, I wrote you a mail to your 
> Yahoo address if you're reading this asking more about it :).  Does 
> anybody else use a laminator, or magazine pages for that matter?  
> DSC on EBay, but couldn't find one.  Anybody else use one?

     I've used magazine paper off and on for a year or so for toner 
transfer.  Mostly I have only done really simple circuits with fat 
traces.  Being pretty reckless with the iron I was always trying to 
smoosh the pattern on never trying for real fine detail.  I was hand 
drawing them before I figured this out.  It beats that hands down, 
however it was not until I joined this list that I realized to what 
fine level of detail can be achieved.
     I have been experimenting with photo emulsion methods because I 
thought I would need that to get good resolution and detail.  It 
makes sense for boards that I need a lot of reps of, however for one 
offs its very hard to beat toner transfer I think, if you can get the 
process down.  For simple circuits I could be done with the whole 
process in short order and no nasty chemicals.
     I have always used old National Geographic paper.  From what I 
can gather its the high clay content of the paper that makes it work 
well. I went for the National Geographic paper since a lot of people 
into something called paper clay use these magizines for makeing the 
stuff.  I think in general the higher quality papers have a higher 
clay content. This clay seems to disolve as a film in water after a 
soak and the paper lifts off leaving the toner behind.  There are 
always paper fibers left behind but toothbrush cleans it up pretty 
nice.  And the toner if properly bonded to the board is a fantastic 
etch resist.

Good luck,
ED

Hi,

I am looking for an eagle part for the PIC16F627, in the 18 pin PDIP
form, does anyone have a place I can find this, my internet search found
nothing...

Thanks

Anthony

----- Original Message ----- 

From: "Anthony Toft" <toftat@...>
To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2004 2:35 AM
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Eagle library for PIC


> Hi,
>
> I am looking for an eagle part for the PIC16F627, in the 18 pin PDIP
> form, does anyone have a place I can find this, my internet search found
> nothing...

You should be able to modify the 16F84 part, which you probably have. They
are quite similar.

Leon
--
Leon Heller, G1HSM
Email: aqzf13@...
My low-cost Philips LPC210x ARM development system:
http://www.geocities.com/leon_heller/lpc2104.html

> > I am looking for an eagle part for the PIC16F627, in the 18 pin 
PDIP
> > form, does anyone have a place I can find this, my internet 
search found
> > nothing...
> 
> You should be able to modify the 16F84 part, which you probably 
have. They
> are quite similar.


I looked for a similar library for WinQCad and did the same thing.

However, the thing I searched for, but was unable to find was a pin 
out comparison chart showing all PIC's that share the same general 
pin-out.

It seems to me to be a waste to have 50 library items when they all 
share common pins.

Dave