Homebrew_PCBs

 

I found brass tube that fits component leads that could be used as vias. 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/121507489010
Alliance Model Works 1:24/35/48/72 1:350/700 Precision Brass Tubing 1.2mm #TW006

On Tue, Oct 31, 2017 at 3:44 PM, Rob roomberg@... [Homebrew_PCBs] <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

We were having some banter earlier this month about how to get ..what to use... for vias through
a two sided PCB.

I use (indeed, I sell locally) 0.8mm rivets, but they have heads, tin the pads, insert rivet, squish the tail, solder both sides ( not the best example, but anyway https://imgur.com/a/uH4Jy )

My point was what's the difference, for a via at least, of using a brass/copper tube of 0.x mm and just a couple mm length of solid copper wire 0.x mm diameter, same thing really isn't it.

If you want to insert component legs through for a diy plated through hole rather than just  a diy via then that's true of course, but that's not something I've had to do myself, I just solder the component leg on both top and bottom side when necessary

NB: I've been looking around to try and get 0.5mm rivets, but I have not found a (chinese) supplier of them in bulk.

The one thing one could do with the brass tubing is to make a conical tool for both sides which will flange the tubing.  Done right, it would produce an airtight seal and solder would be superfluous (though highly advised).

Without rivet heads, is it really any different than solid core wire of appropriate thickness?

That aside, and against my own reservations, I've got some of these in my Aliexpress cart currently when I get around to clearing it out next

https://goo.gl/QpDTnn

(in case the listing goes, title is "1 Black Jar Boxed Bar Design 0.5mm Thickness Rivets Studs Gold Plated Metallic Japanese Style 3D Nail Art Decoration Accessories")

I have absolutely no idea if they are solid, brass, copper, or maybe even plastic, but for $2 I figure it's worth a look.

On Tue, Oct 31, 2017 at 6:06 AM, Rob roomberg@... [Homebrew_PCBs] <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

I found brass tube 

 

The one thing one could do with the brass tubing is to make a conical tool for both sides which will flange the tubing.  Done right, it would produce an airtight seal and solder would be superfluous (though highly advised).

On 10/30/2017 9:03 PM, James bitsyboffin@... [Homebrew_PCBs] wrote:

Without rivet heads, is it really any different than solid core wire of appropriate thickness?

That aside, and against my own reservations, I've got some of these in my Aliexpress cart currently when I get around to clearing it out next

https://goo.gl/QpDTnn

(in case the listing goes, title is "1 Black Jar Boxed Bar Design 0.5mm Thickness Rivets Studs Gold Plated Metallic Japanese Style 3D Nail Art Decoration Accessories")

I have absolutely no idea if they are solid, brass, copper, or maybe even plastic, but for $2 I figure it's worth a look.

On Tue, Oct 31, 2017 at 6:06 AM, Rob roomberg@... [Homebrew_PCBs] <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

I found brass tube 

 

I just used component lead wires and solder both sides.
https://hackaday.io/project/7938-pcb-smt-maker-lab-home

--

                                    From


                                             Karl

                                                        Primatesfather@...
 

 

>If you don’t need the holes that’s the easiest way.
>
>If you’ve a bunch of them then you can get a long pieces of copper wire, thread it though all of them, solder one side then flip it over to do the other, and finally trim the excess off.
>
>Although finding a long piece of suitable copper (or tinned) wire can be surprising difficult at times.

>
>
>
>Tony
>
>
>
>
>
>From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com]
>Sent: Wednesday, 1 November 2017 1:16 PM
>To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] brass tube vias
>
>
>
>I just used component lead wires and solder both sides.
>https://hackaday.io/project/7938-pcb-smt-maker-lab-home
>
>
>
>
>

You may think that you have a good connection. The top manufacturing company who made the bad boards that I had to repair over and over again certainly did. But you can not trust it. PERIOD. The brass is swagged over the copper trace with a solder coating on it. Both brass and solder alloys are soft metals and expansion/contraction cycles will open a gap large enough for oxygen and other corrosive gasses in the air to penetrate. You will get oxidization and other forms of corrosion and eventually the joint may/will fail. And it will be HELL to find and repair especially with low level, high impedance signals. You could wind up completely replacing a PCB that cost hundreds, thousands, or even tens of thousands of dollars. I have seen it. I have fought it. Brass tubing or hollow brass rivets MUST be soldered for reliability and there is NO way to inspect that solder joint. It will look perfectly normal on the outside while it is was never a proper joint underneath and corrosion sets in. That is, assuming that the brass was not coated with corrosion before it was inserted in the hole.

USE soldered Z wires so you can see and inspect the solder joint if you want a dependable joint. Or get a board made with plated holes.

The one thing one could do with the brass tubing is to make a conical
tool for both sides which will flange the tubing.  Done right, it would
produce an airtight seal and solder would be superfluous (though highly
advised).

> Without rivet heads, is it really any different than solid core wire of
> appropriate thickness?

> The one thing one could do with the brass tubing is to make a

> tool for both sides which will flange the tubing.  Done right,

> produce an airtight seal and solder would be superfluous

> advised).

 

YES, it is different than solid wire. Solid wire is copper and usually
plated with tin or solder so that it takes solder easily. Brass, if left
standing for any amount of time can acquire a coating of oxide which
resists solder adhesion. And most electronic fluxes are not formulated
to handle this. You would have to scrupulously clean the brass
immediately before inserting it and soldering it if you want reliable
connections. I have a lot of experience with brass that was "soldered"
to PCBs.

James said,

> Without rivet heads, is it really any different than solid core wire of
> appropriate thickness?

_

 

I ordered some of these vias from Ali express..

Seems to be a reasonable item providing that they are soldered in
directly. They also look good for creating non slip test points for
scope probes.

Ancel

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
 WOW!
That was a very educational discussion pretty much settling on DON'T DO IT.

I was not having anything lined up now that required vias.
I had just stumbled onto the brass tubes in a hobby shop and remembered someone posting questions
about vias here so I bought a few and checked out their mechanical fit..... never actually soldering anything.

Thanks for the education!



+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
You may think that you have a good connection. The top manufacturing company who made the bad boards that I had to repair over and over again certainly did. But you can not trust it. PERIOD. The brass is swagged over the copper trace with a solder coating on it. Both brass and solder alloys are soft metals and expansion/contraction cycles will open a gap large enough for oxygen and other corrosive gasses in the air to penetrate. You will get oxidization and other forms of corrosion and eventually the joint may/will fail. And it will be HELL to find and repair especially with low level, high impedance signals. You could wind up completely replacing a PCB that cost hundreds, thousands, or even tens of thousands of dollars. I have seen it. I have fought it. Brass tubing or hollow brass rivets MUST be soldered for reliability and there is NO way to inspect that solder joint. It will look perfectly normal on the outside while it is was never a proper joint underneath and corrosion sets in. That is, assuming that the brass was not coated with corrosion before it was inserted in the hole.


USE soldered Z wires so you can see and inspect the solder joint if you want a dependable joint. Or get a board made with plated holes.



:
"Dale Chatham
said,


> The one thing one could do with the brass tubing is to make a conical
> tool for both sides which will flange the tubing.  Done right, it would
> produce an airtight seal and solder would be superfluous (though highly
> advised).
On 11/01/2017 07:56 PM, Paul Alciatore palciatore@... [Homebrew_PCBs] wrote:
> 
>
> YES, it is different than solid wire. Solid wire is copper and usually
> plated with tin or solder so that it takes solder easily. Brass, if left
> standing for any amount of time can acquire a coating of oxide which
> resists solder adhesion. And most electronic fluxes are not formulated
> to handle this. You would have to scrupulously clean the brass
> immediately before inserting it and soldering it if you want reliable
> connections. I have a lot of experience with brass that was "soldered"
> to PCBs.
>
> James said,
>
> > Without rivet heads, is it really any different than solid core wire of
> > appropriate thickness?

On Fri, Nov 3, 2017 at 5:01 PM, Rob roomberg@... [Homebrew_PCBs] <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com > wrote:

Can you be more specific.....which..... some of these vias?

 

Search AliExpress for 

  PCB rivet M0.9

you will find a number of sellers, they come in various lengths. 

That's the smallest diameter I have found on Aliexpress.