Homebrew_PCBs

 Tried the "cold toner transfer" process today using what I had
at home, acetone and 80-proof vodka (40% alcohol by volume) for my solvent.
Printed the PCB artwork on standard, white, office paper using my HP Laserjet. Using the 8:3 mix and didn't get any transfer to the copper.

So I dabbed the solvent onto the other toner patterns on the paper
and let it set half an hour before I tried rubbing it off again.   Still wouldn't lift off the paper.   D'OH!   I forgot to print it  onto something slippery.   So I printed four patterns on Oracal 651 vinyl for another go at it.

Did everything according to the video, but the part where the paper and plastic are supposed to peel off the board, leaving the toner still sticking, failed miserably.  

So I added another capful of acetone to the bottle, put the cap back on and shook it up,  and tried again.  No results.

I repeated the above two sentences about three more times.   Still the toner did not detach from the Oracal.  So I let put a few drops of solvent onto a different piece of Oracal with a toner pattern printed on it, and let it sit about half an hour.
Then I could rub the toner off with my thumb, but it took a good bit of pressure to lift the toner from the plastic.

This was my first try to use the  "heatless" toner transfer.   I think
I'll buy some 100% ethanol (grain alcohol) and try again later in the
week, unless somebody has a better idea.

 

 Tried the "cold toner transfer" process today using what I had
at home, acetone and 80-proof vodka (40% alcohol by volume) for my solvent.
Printed the PCB artwork on standard, white, office paper using my HP Laserjet. Using the 8:3 mix and didn't get any transfer to the copper.

So I dabbed the solvent onto the other toner patterns on the paper
and let it set half an hour before I tried rubbing it off again.   Still wouldn't lift off the paper.   D'OH!   I forgot to print it  onto something slippery.   So I printed four patterns on Oracal 651 vinyl for another go at it.

Did everything according to the video, but the part where the paper and plastic are supposed to peel off the board, leaving the toner still sticking, failed miserably.  

So I added another capful of acetone to the bottle, put the cap back on and shook it up,  and tried again.  No results.

I repeated the above two sentences about three more times.   Still the toner did not detach from the Oracal.  So I let put a few drops of solvent onto a different piece of Oracal with a toner pattern printed on it, and let it sit about half an hour.
Then I could rub the toner off with my thumb, but it took a good bit of pressure to lift the toner from the plastic.

This was my first try to use the  "heatless" toner transfer.   I think
I'll buy some 100% ethanol (grain alcohol) and try again later in the
week, unless somebody has a better idea.

Alan,

I use a mixture of 1:1 Acetone and Denatured Alcohol.  Both from Home Depot. Both are inexpensive. Skip the grain alcohol, except for celebrating your results. I run a film of the mixture onto the board, and then put the artwork down onto the wet film. I let it sit for about 20 seconds and then press down. While I am waiting the 20 seconds, I flood the top of the artwork with more of the mixture. At that point I run a brayer over the board in the x and y directions for about a minute. By that time, the board is usually pretty dry. When it is completely dry, I drop it into the sink with some water, and let it sit for about 15-20 minutes. I peel off what ever peels off, and then rub the rest off with my fingers. The paper I use is the shiny, but not coated brochure paper. I tried to use some form the Viking River cruises catalogs we get once a week, but the paper was too thin for my printer.  The purpose of the brayer is to improve adhesion, especially at the edges of the pattern. I bought a 6 inch one on ebay for a few dollars. I was floored that first time I tried it this way. I had had success without the brayer, but always had issues at the edges of the artwork.

 

 Tried the "cold toner transfer" process today using what I had
at home, acetone and 80-proof vodka (40% alcohol by volume) for my solvent.
Printed the PCB artwork on standard, white, office paper using my HP Laserjet. Using the 8:3 mix and didn't get any transfer to the copper.

So I dabbed the solvent onto the other toner patterns on the paper
and let it set half an hour before I tried rubbing it off again.   Still wouldn't lift off the paper.   D'OH!   I forgot to print it  onto something slippery.   So I printed four patterns on Oracal 651 vinyl for another go at it.

Did everything according to the video, but the part where the paper and plastic are supposed to peel off the board, leaving the toner still sticking, failed miserably.  

So I added another capful of acetone to the bottle, put the cap back on and shook it up,  and tried again.  No results.

I repeated the above two sentences about three more times.   Still the toner did not detach from the Oracal.  So I let put a few drops of solvent onto a different piece of Oracal with a toner pattern printed on it, and let it sit about half an hour.
Then I could rub the toner off with my thumb, but it took a good bit of pressure to lift the toner from the plastic.

This was my first try to use the  "heatless" toner transfer.   I think
I'll buy some 100% ethanol (grain alcohol) and try again later in the
week, unless somebody has a better idea.

 

Alan,

I use a mixture of 1:1 Acetone and Denatured Alcohol.  Both from Home Depot. Both are inexpensive. Skip the grain alcohol, except for celebrating your results. I run a film of the mixture onto the board, and then put the artwork down onto the wet film. I let it sit for about 20 seconds and then press down. While I am waiting the 20 seconds, I flood the top of the artwork with more of the mixture. At that point I run a brayer over the board in the x and y directions for about a minute. By that time, the board is usually pretty dry. When it is completely dry, I drop it into the sink with some water, and let it sit for about 15-20 minutes. I peel off what ever peels off, and then rub the rest off with my fingers. The paper I use is the shiny, but not coated brochure paper. I tried to use some form the Viking River cruises catalogs we get once a week, but the paper was too thin for my printer.  The purpose of the brayer is to improve adhesion, especially at the edges of the pattern. I bought a 6 inch one on ebay for a few dollars. I was floored that first time I tried it this way. I had had success without the brayer, but always had issues at the edges of the artwork.

Harvey

On 10/4/2016 4:46 PM, alan00463@... [Homebrew_PCBs] wrote:

 

 Tried the "cold toner transfer" process today using what I had
at home, acetone and 80-proof vodka (40% alcohol by volume) for my solvent.
Printed the PCB artwork on standard, white, office paper using my HP Laserjet. Using the 8:3 mix and didn't get any transfer to the copper.

So I dabbed the solvent onto the other toner patterns on the paper
and let it set half an hour before I tried rubbing it off again.   Still wouldn't lift off the paper.   D'OH!   I forgot to print it  onto something slippery.   So I printed four patterns on Oracal 651 vinyl for another go at it.

Did everything according to the video, but the part where the paper and plastic are supposed to peel off the board, leaving the toner still sticking, failed miserably.  

So I added another capful of acetone to the bottle, put the cap back on and shook it up,  and tried again.  No results.

I repeated the above two sentences about three more times.   Still the toner did not detach from the Oracal.  So I let put a few drops of solvent onto a different piece of Oracal with a toner pattern printed on it, and let it sit about half an hour.
Then I could rub the toner off with my thumb, but it took a good bit of pressure to lift the toner from the plastic.

This was my first try to use the  "heatless" toner transfer.   I think
I'll buy some 100% ethanol (grain alcohol) and try again later in the
week, unless somebody has a better idea.

My toner is for a Brother multifunction laser printer. It is a third party cartridge. I think the issue is similar to the one with the hot methods, in that the process needs to be optimized for the particular toner.  I tried various combinations of acetone and denatured alcohol just on some printed patterns, to see what would make the toner run. It took the 1:1 mix to really make it work. I just got a cartridge from a different third party, and I have yet to try it. I suspect that some experimentation will be in order.

 

Acetone... ONE to ONE?

Wow.
when I increased my acetone to anything more than the 16 drops aclcohol to 6 drops of acetone I had
drastic resutls real quick where the toner just instantly disolved and washed away.

WHAT IS YOUR TONER from ? Mine is HP laserjet
IS YOUR TONER FROM a BROTHER laser printer?

On 10/05/2016 12:56 AM, Harvey Altstadter hrconsult@... [Homebrew_PCBs] wrote:

 

Alan,

I use a mixture of 1:1 Acetone and Denatured Alcohol.  Both from Home Depot. Both are inexpensive. Skip the grain alcohol, except for celebrating your results. I run a film of the mixture onto the board, and then put the artwork down onto the wet film. I let it sit for about 20 seconds and then press down. While I am waiting the 20 seconds, I flood the top of the artwork with more of the mixture. At that point I run a brayer over the board in the x and y directions for about a minute. By that time, the board is usually pretty dry. When it is completely dry, I drop it into the sink with some water, and let it sit for about 15-20 minutes. I peel off what ever peels off, and then rub the rest off with my fingers. The paper I use is the shiny, but not coated brochure paper. I tried to use some form the Viking River cruises catalogs we get once a week, but the paper was too thin for my printer.  The purpose of the brayer is to improve adhesion, especially at the edges of the pattern. I bought a 6 inch one on ebay for a few dollars. I was floored that first time I tried it this way. I had had success without the brayer, but always had issues at the edges of the artwork.

Harvey

On 10/4/2016 4:46 PM, alan00463@... [Homebrew_PCBs] wrote:

 

 Tried the "cold toner transfer" process today using what I had
at home, acetone and 80-proof vodka (40% alcohol by volume) for my solvent.
Printed the PCB artwork on standard, white, office paper using my HP Laserjet. Using the 8:3 mix and didn't get any transfer to the copper.

So I dabbed the solvent onto the other toner patterns on the paper
and let it set half an hour before I tried rubbing it off again.   Still wouldn't lift off the paper.   D'OH!   I forgot to print it  onto something slippery.   So I printed four patterns on Oracal 651 vinyl for another go at it.

Did everything according to the video, but the part where the paper and plastic are supposed to peel off the board, leaving the toner still sticking, failed miserably.  

So I added another capful of acetone to the bottle, put the cap back on and shook it up,  and tried again.  No results.

I repeated the above two sentences about three more times.   Still the toner did not detach from the Oracal.  So I let put a few drops of solvent onto a different piece of Oracal with a toner pattern printed on it, and let it sit about half an hour.
Then I could rub the toner off with my thumb, but it took a good bit of pressure to lift the toner from the plastic.

This was my first try to use the  "heatless" toner transfer.   I think
I'll buy some 100% ethanol (grain alcohol) and try again later in the
week, unless somebody has a better idea.

On 10/6/2016 6:55 PM, alan00463@... [Homebrew_PCBs] wrote:
>
>
> Tried another transfer using ORACAL 651, using a mixture of half
> acetone and half denatured alcohol Followed Harvey's directions
> and burnished the artwork backside with the backside of a fork
> following DuWayne. The artwork did not transfer.
>
> Tried it again with the same mixture. This time I put the copper
> clad board between two steel plates that I marked with a red Sharpie.
> I squeezed them together for ten minutes using two medium C clamps.
>
> This time about a third of the toner transfer from the artwork to
> the copper clad--in the middle of the board. PARTIAL SUCCESS...
>
> Next time, try applying pressure with a pipe clamp. Better yet,
> get a 6-inch brayer. I see the brayers come in either hard rubber
> or soft rubber. Which kind did you get, Harvey? I've never used one.
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Posted by: alan00463@...


--
Cecil - k5nwa
http://thepartsplace.k5nwa.com/

Alan,

The hard rubber brayer is the one.  Got it on ebay for a few bucks.

I really soak down the back of the paper and let it sit for a while before I roll it. If it dries out, I put some more of the mixture on it. Using a rounded object gave me partial results and some encouragement when I got a partial transfer that way, mostly in the middle.  The brayer is good because it gets the pressure across the whole board, not just the middle.   Another thing I noticed is that some of my boards are slightly warped.  If you observe that, either skip using the board, or make sure you roll parallel the warp, not across it. The board needs to be a bit larger than the circuit layout to make sure that you can roll over the edges without running off the board close to the edge of the artwork. I use hot glue to stick the board onto a larger wooden board that I can keep from moving around. When I am done with the transfer, and ready to put the board in  the water, I pop the board off the bigger board.

It's clear from the partial transfers that you are getting, that you are getting into the ball park with  the mixture. You might try two parts acetone to one part denatured alcohol, to see if that works better.

Regards

Harvey

 

Tried another transfer using ORACAL 651, using a mixture of  half
acetone and half denatured alcohol    Followed Harvey's directions
and burnished the artwork backside with the backside of a fork
following DuWayne.   The artwork did not transfer.

Tried it again with the same mixture.    This time I put the copper
clad board between two steel plates that I marked with a red Sharpie.
I squeezed them together for ten minutes using two medium C clamps.

This time about a third of the toner transfer from the artwork to
the copper clad--in the middle of the board.    PARTIAL SUCCESS...

Next time, try applying pressure with a pipe clamp.   Better yet,
get a 6-inch brayer.    I see the brayers come in either hard rubber
or soft rubber.   Which kind did you get, Harvey?   I've never used one.

Alan,

I watched the video, an I am convinced that the Oracal works well with heated transfer, where the heat melts the toner and (hopefully) gets it to stick to the copper.  I get it. By the same token, the process that works so well with heat will not respond well to the cold process.

In the cold process, we get the toner to melt using a solvent. The solvent needs to be absorbed into the backing medium to release the toner.  The process requirement is the same, we need to melt the toner and get it to stick to the board.  With a paper backing, the toner gets surrounded by the solvent, and melts. The pressure gets it to stick. The backing medium needs to be able to absorb the solvent, and hold it in contact with the toner. The Oracal is non absorbent, and therefore much less suited to the cold process. The success you've had with it probably is because solvent gets trapped between the Oracal and the board. With enough pressure you might get transfer, but it is hard to believe that you could get uniform distribution of the solvent.

When you heat process the Oracal, you peel the vinyl off the board, and leave the toner behind. In the cold process, we soak the paper until it almost disintegrates, and then we gently rub the excess paper off.  The toner does not really separate from the paper in the same manner as the Oracal with heat. There have been many discussions about which kinds of paper are best for the process. There is a theory that the shinier paper is better than regular printing paper. That seems to be true in my case. I use the thinnest, glossiest paper that my printer will handle. The gloss must not come from a clay coating. Others have had great success with very hard papers like baking parchment. I had no success with that paper. The common thread here is that the greatest successes are with using paper as the print medium.

Just my $.02

Harvey

 

MIke N., see this video showing the use of this medium:

Toner transfer video using Oracal 651 vinyl:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtmJdCBjwXY

I got the drayer and will have another go at TT with this medium.   The Oracal 651 comes stuck to a paper backing.    The paper backing peels off.   The vinyl then has a sticky side which you can attach to piece of paper and feed through the laser printer.       I figured out how to do this using EAGLECAD and made a template so I now know exactly where to attach the sticky vinyl to the paper just before printing it.    If the vinyl gives me any trouble, I'll try printing the artwork onto the glossy paper backing before I consider another medium.

73,

Alan

 

 

Thank you for sharing your 2 cents, Harvey.

I tried cold toner transfer on glossy coupon flyers from McDonalds,
but they failed to lift from the paper.   Looking around for paper that was "glossy but flexible" to print on, I also found and tried a  Techni-tool catalog cover, a CVS Pharmacy sticker backing, and an Avery address label sticker backing.    All failed.   So I'm postponing my cold toner transfer tries until I can get some Office One "Business Gloss" 32lb. 92 brilliance glossy paper Roland F. Harriston reported worked well awhile back.

Meanwhile, a bunch of my circuit's artwork piled up on a pile of ORACALl 651 vinyl stickers.   So I got out the iron & did some that way.

My first impression looked good.   So I etched it with ferric chloride and tinned the traces with Tinnit solution.    It looked great.   Until I looked a little closer and notice I'd forgotten to print the pads on this through-hole board.   D'oH!!!!   But it had another major flaw -- an unwanted trace shorting out 3 pins on an opamp chip.

So I re-ironed the board by following Adam Kohring's instructions to the letter:
Print Your Own Circuit Boards
EXCEPT I ironed it on for 5 minutes, rather than 2.

It worked.   The traces are well-defined.   However, about 30% of their
interior is lacking toner where it ought be.   Does this mean I need to
buy a new toner cartridge to replace the original  one I've been using for
11 years ?

Well, on October 3, I removed the old image and ironed another one on, following Adam Kohring, since I had two more artwork prints.   This time I used a timer to ensure I only ironed it 2 min.

It failed.    Maybe I didn't hold the iron still enough for 20 s.
Maybe do it for 30 s.    However, I DID NOT get the voids in the traces
that I did last time.   That's good.

My third try WORKED!   YAY!   The traces are about 95% covered on
their interiors.   I just gotta remember:
2 min. in oven -- 30s holding down the iron--2 min. total ironing.

I will go over the tiny holes w/ Sharpies.

I couldn't really do the holes using the 3X magnifying lens.  They
were too hard to see until I put them under the 10X loupe.

Oct 14

I just went over the tiny holes in traces using an ultra-fine tipped
Sharpie.   My Vision Technologies VT100 19in. CRT magnifier is inval-
uable for this purpose.   I saw holes in the toner as big as
0.005185 of a 0.086 in. trace, or 0.0004 in.  That's about 0.4 mil.
I filled 'em in with my ultra-fine-tip Sharpie.

WIlll etch it tomorrow,
Alan

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