Homebrew_PCBs

hi Group I am about to start to make a PCB board on a mill/engraver I
have a dxf file how do one make it in to a cam program I tried to get
the book from John Kleinbauer In this group but he will not sell to
us Canadains so i have to find all the info my self ,can some one
point me in the right place .

Brew

Yeager Automation (Maker of CNCPro) has a freeware DXF to Gcode
converter called ACE Converter. Works for some people.
www.YeagerAutomation.com
You can also use the freeware version of Eagle to draw your board and
there is a ULP on the CAD_CAM group file section that lets you directly
output Gcode.

Question for John K.: Whats the problem, don't like our neighbors and
friends to the north? I have sent plenty of drives up there and there
money spends just fine.

Tim
[Denver CO]

> -----Original Message-----
>
>
> hi Group I am about to start to make a PCB board on a mill/engraver I
> have a dxf file how do one make it in to a cam program I tried to get
> the book from John Kleinbauer In this group but he will not sell to
> us Canadains so i have to find all the info my self ,can some one
> point me in the right place .
>
> Brew

Yeager Automation have a freeware DXF to G-Code converter called Ace:

http://www.yeagerautomation.com/price.htm

Kellyware's KCam will import DXF (amongst other formats) and export G-Code
(or simply use it to drive your mill itself):

http://www.kellyware.com/kcam/index.htm

SuperCam will import DXF (and others), export a limited subset of G-Code &
can also control a mill:

http://www.super-tech.com/default.asp

Master 5 will import DXF (and...etc) & drive a mill:

http://users.andara.com/~fenerty/master.htm

There are various CAD/CAM packages that will import DXF. My personal
favourite is Dolphin Partmaster:

http://www.dolphin-systems.co.uk/

Don't be put off by the £800 price tag - they sell a cheaper version
(dedicated to a single post-processor) aimed at the hobby market.

Regards,
Tony

At 04:37 16/04/2002 +0000, you wrote:

>hi Group I am about to start to make a PCB board on a mill/engraver I
>have a dxf file how do one make it in to a cam program I tried to get
>the book from John Kleinbauer In this group but he will not sell to
>us Canadains so i have to find all the info my self ,can some one
>point me in the right place .
>
>Brew
>
>
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Please tell the truth! You wanted the book along with the GCODE
to mill the board. The last time we made a deal months ago you
never sent your money. That's when you wanted me to lie to customs.
You always have strings attached to your sale! You are not better
than anyone else!

John

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@y..., "marble_h" <marble_h@y...> wrote:
> hi Group I am about to start to make a PCB board on a mill/engraver
I
> have a dxf file how do one make it in to a cam program I tried to
get
> the book from John Kleinbauer In this group but he will not sell to
> us Canadains so i have to find all the info my self ,can some one
> point me in the right place .
>
> Brew

John -

Rule No.1 ...

However bad you think your customers are, never slag them off in public.

Rationale: Makes potential customers that may be listening in wonder what
you will say about *them* in public.

Regards,
Tony

At 09:43 16/04/2002 +0000, you wrote:

>Please tell the truth! You wanted the book along with the GCODE
>to mill the board. The last time we made a deal months ago you
>never sent your money. That's when you wanted me to lie to customs.
> You always have strings attached to your sale! You are not better
>than anyone else!
>
> John
>
>
>
>--- In Homebrew_PCBs@y..., "marble_h" <marble_h@y...> wrote:
> > hi Group I am about to start to make a PCB board on a mill/engraver
>I
> > have a dxf file how do one make it in to a cam program I tried to
>get
> > the book from John Kleinbauer In this group but he will not sell to
> > us Canadains so i have to find all the info my self ,can some one
> > point me in the right place .
> >
> > Brew
>
>
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Tony,
I don't run a company. This is a hobby! I offer my plans to
people who want them. When people ask lots of questions, seem
unsure, or pull a stunt. I don't want to get involved with them.
I learned from people like YOU! You sent cash in the envelope. You
did not send the correct amount. I shipped anyway. Then you started
whining you got robbed. So now I am very careful who I sell to. Now
when somebody pulls your stunt! I send the money back. In over a year
and a half I have only had one complaint. That was from YOU! They rest
are from people who have not bought anything! They want me to cater
to they long list of questions and conditions. This is a Hobby! I am
very busy here!

John

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@y..., Tony Jeffree <tony@j...> wrote:
> John -
>
> Rule No.1 ...
>
> However bad you think your customers are, never slag them off in
public.
>
> Rationale: Makes potential customers that may be listening in
wonder what
> you will say about *them* in public.
>
> Regards,
> Tony
>
> At 09:43 16/04/2002 +0000, you wrote:
> >Please tell the truth! You wanted the book along with the GCODE
> >to mill the board. The last time we made a deal months ago you
> >never sent your money. That's when you wanted me to lie to customs.
> > You always have strings attached to your sale! You are not
better
> >than anyone else!
> >
> > John
> >
> >
> >
> >--- In Homebrew_PCBs@y..., "marble_h" <marble_h@y...> wrote:
> > > hi Group I am about to start to make a PCB board on a
mill/engraver
> >I
> > > have a dxf file how do one make it in to a cam program I tried
to
> >get
> > > the book from John Kleinbauer In this group but he will not
sell to
> > > us Canadains so i have to find all the info my self ,can some
one
> > > point me in the right place .
> > >
> > > Brew
> >
> >
> >
> >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@y...
> >
> >
> >
> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

John -

Rather an extreme reaction when all I was doing was offering you sound (and
free!) advice. Don't knock it. Ask any successful salesman & he/she will
tell you the same thing.

At 10:33 17/04/2002 +0000, you wrote:

>Tony,
> I don't run a company. This is a hobby! I offer my plans to
>people who want them.

You advertise stuff for sale. You have customers. You sell them stuff. You
accept their money. Ergo, you run a business. Maybe not incorporated, but
certainly a business. The IRS will certainly view it as a business
(assuming of course that you're a good boy & tell them about the income);
so will anyone seeing your website & noticing that you charge for stuff.

>When people ask lots of questions, seem
>unsure, or pull a stunt. I don't want to get involved with them.
>I learned from people like YOU! You sent cash in the envelope. You
>did not send the correct amount. I shipped anyway.

You're right - I sent you a $20 bill (or was it 2 tens?), not $18,
anticipating that the extra $2 would cover the additional overseas postage,
as your $18 price already included US postage & didn't specify the extra
for overseas. I can do the sums - you ended up *in pocket*, rather than
*out of pocket* on that deal. Just shows how easy it is for you to
misrepresent a situation by leaving out vital information. Having seen that
happen in your interactions with me, I have no reason to take your version
of your interactions with this other Canadian guy at face value either.

>Then you started
>whining you got robbed.

If you mean I gave you feedback on what I considered to be the low
value-for-money that I had received, that is true. I wouldn't describe that
as whining. Particularly as I didn't ask for a refund - I wrote that one
off to bad experience.

>So now I am very careful who I sell to. Now
>when somebody pulls your stunt! I send the money back.

I notice you didn't bother to offer me a refund though, despite the fact
that I was obviously unhappy with what you had sent me. Perhaps if you had,
we wouldn't have ended up having this conversation.

>In over a year
>and a half I have only had one complaint. That was from YOU! They rest
>are from people who have not bought anything! They want me to cater
>to they long list of questions and conditions. This is a Hobby! I am
>very busy here!

If you don't want the hassle, don't go into business - be it in a small way
or not. You could save yourself all the hassle you are complaining about by
doing what many others, including myself, do - put their plans etc. up on
their websites at no charge, for the benefit of all.

You can't have it both ways.

Best regards,
Tony

Tony,
What you did was a stunt! I have a tax number and I keep records
of every sale. But I am nonprofit. I retired at 37 and I am now an
old man of 50. I share my plans and ideas with other. I charge a small
fee for my plans. I use the money to buy more parts. I work 18 hours
a day 7 days a week. I love what I am doing. It's my life and I will
do what I want! So if anyone want to talk Milling Circuit boards I am
here for that! I am not a businessman, they make money!

John

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@y..., Tony Jeffree <tony@j...> wrote:
> John -
>
> Rather an extreme reaction when all I was doing was offering you
sound (and
> free!) advice. Don't knock it. Ask any successful salesman & he/she
will
> tell you the same thing.
>
> At 10:33 17/04/2002 +0000, you wrote:
> >Tony,
> > I don't run a company. This is a hobby! I offer my plans to
> >people who want them.
>
> You advertise stuff for sale. You have customers. You sell them
stuff. You
> accept their money. Ergo, you run a business. Maybe not
incorporated, but
> certainly a business. The IRS will certainly view it as a business
> (assuming of course that you're a good boy & tell them about the
income);
> so will anyone seeing your website & noticing that you charge for
stuff.
>
> >When people ask lots of questions, seem
> >unsure, or pull a stunt. I don't want to get involved with them.
> >I learned from people like YOU! You sent cash in the envelope. You
> >did not send the correct amount. I shipped anyway.
>
> You're right - I sent you a $20 bill (or was it 2 tens?), not $18,
> anticipating that the extra $2 would cover the additional overseas
postage,
> as your $18 price already included US postage & didn't specify the
extra
> for overseas. I can do the sums - you ended up *in pocket*, rather
than
> *out of pocket* on that deal. Just shows how easy it is for you to
> misrepresent a situation by leaving out vital information. Having
seen that
> happen in your interactions with me, I have no reason to take your
version
> of your interactions with this other Canadian guy at face value
either.
>
> >Then you started
> >whining you got robbed.
>
> If you mean I gave you feedback on what I considered to be the low
> value-for-money that I had received, that is true. I wouldn't
describe that
> as whining. Particularly as I didn't ask for a refund - I wrote
that one
> off to bad experience.
>
> >So now I am very careful who I sell to. Now
> >when somebody pulls your stunt! I send the money back.
>
> I notice you didn't bother to offer me a refund though, despite the
fact
> that I was obviously unhappy with what you had sent me. Perhaps if
you had,
> we wouldn't have ended up having this conversation.
>
> >In over a year
> >and a half I have only had one complaint. That was from YOU! They
rest
> >are from people who have not bought anything! They want me to cater
> >to they long list of questions and conditions. This is a Hobby! I
am
> >very busy here!
>
> If you don't want the hassle, don't go into business - be it in a
small way
> or not. You could save yourself all the hassle you are complaining
about by
> doing what many others, including myself, do - put their plans etc.
up on
> their websites at no charge, for the benefit of all.
>
> You can't have it both ways.
>
> Best regards,
> Tony

OK, I think this has run it's course. Officially OT now.

Steve, the moderator


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax
http://taxes.yahoo.com/

John,

Based upon Enron, Kmart, and many others making money is not the deciding
factor in whether you are a business. You offer a product for sale. That
makes you a businessman by default. Like it or not. Now if you just posted
your stuff on the web for free I would likely agree that you are not running
a business.

I am not commenting on whether your product is good or bad as I have not
seen your plans. I love the concept of a low cost "starter" CNC package. I
think it is something the hobby sorely needs. I feel many people would be
better served if they got something to start learning with than spent years
in analysis paralysis because this stuff can be so expensive.

Tim
[Denver, CO]

----- Original Message -----
> Tony,
> What you did was a stunt! I have a tax number and I keep records
> of every sale. But I am nonprofit. I retired at 37 and I am now an
> old man of 50. I share my plans and ideas with other. I charge a small
> fee for my plans. I use the money to buy more parts. I work 18 hours
> a day 7 days a week. I love what I am doing. It's my life and I will
> do what I want! So if anyone want to talk Milling Circuit boards I am
> here for that! I am not a businessman, they make money!
>
> John

Hi john

Ok here we go the last time we talked last year I asked you about
your mill and the book on how to mill boards . A week after we talked
I had to take my dad in to the hospital and found out he had Cancer
of the blood so I put every thing on hold in my life My wife and kids
and I had to take care of him he passed away 4 months later that's
way I did not do anything till I contacted you this past month .Now
as for the shipping of the books there is a 5.00 importing fee I have
to pay for at the post office that's why I said do not worry about
it , that's not lying to anyone at all, by not putting a bill of
sale in I will not then pay two times to the Government then try to
get get it back in two to three months .


As for the G-code you had that up on your web site and you took it
down so I thought you would sell it at a price that would be fair to
all ..


John J Brauweiler

I will repost this on the group later on but I also think that this
is not where it should be done . I did not flame you there I hope we
can fix what ever is goning on here .

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@y..., "crankorgan" <john@k...> wrote:
> Tony,
> What you did was a stunt! I have a tax number and I keep
records
> of every sale. But I am nonprofit. I retired at 37 and I am now an
> old man of 50. I share my plans and ideas with other. I charge a
small
> fee for my plans. I use the money to buy more parts. I work 18
hours
> a day 7 days a week. I love what I am doing. It's my life and I
will
> do what I want! So if anyone want to talk Milling Circuit boards I
am
> here for that! I am not a businessman, they make money!
>
> John
>
>
>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@y..., Tony Jeffree <tony@j...> wrote:
> > John -
> >
> > Rather an extreme reaction when all I was doing was offering you
> sound (and
> > free!) advice. Don't knock it. Ask any successful salesman &
he/she
> will
> > tell you the same thing.
> >
> > At 10:33 17/04/2002 +0000, you wrote:
> > >Tony,
> > > I don't run a company. This is a hobby! I offer my plans to
> > >people who want them.
> >
> > You advertise stuff for sale. You have customers. You sell them
> stuff. You
> > accept their money. Ergo, you run a business. Maybe not
> incorporated, but
> > certainly a business. The IRS will certainly view it as a
business
> > (assuming of course that you're a good boy & tell them about the
> income);
> > so will anyone seeing your website & noticing that you charge for
> stuff.
> >
> > >When people ask lots of questions, seem
> > >unsure, or pull a stunt. I don't want to get involved with them.
> > >I learned from people like YOU! You sent cash in the envelope.
You
> > >did not send the correct amount. I shipped anyway.
> >
> > You're right - I sent you a $20 bill (or was it 2 tens?), not
$18,
> > anticipating that the extra $2 would cover the additional
overseas
> postage,
> > as your $18 price already included US postage & didn't specify
the
> extra
> > for overseas. I can do the sums - you ended up *in pocket*,
rather
> than
> > *out of pocket* on that deal. Just shows how easy it is for you
to
> > misrepresent a situation by leaving out vital information. Having
> seen that
> > happen in your interactions with me, I have no reason to take
your
> version
> > of your interactions with this other Canadian guy at face value
> either.
> >
> > >Then you started
> > >whining you got robbed.
> >
> > If you mean I gave you feedback on what I considered to be the
low
> > value-for-money that I had received, that is true. I wouldn't
> describe that
> > as whining. Particularly as I didn't ask for a refund - I wrote
> that one
> > off to bad experience.
> >
> > >So now I am very careful who I sell to. Now
> > >when somebody pulls your stunt! I send the money back.
> >
> > I notice you didn't bother to offer me a refund though, despite
the
> fact
> > that I was obviously unhappy with what you had sent me. Perhaps
if
> you had,
> > we wouldn't have ended up having this conversation.
> >
> > >In over a year
> > >and a half I have only had one complaint. That was from YOU!
They
> rest
> > >are from people who have not bought anything! They want me to
cater
> > >to they long list of questions and conditions. This is a Hobby!
I
> am
> > >very busy here!
> >
> > If you don't want the hassle, don't go into business - be it in a
> small way
> > or not. You could save yourself all the hassle you are
complaining
> about by
> > doing what many others, including myself, do - put their plans
etc.
> up on
> > their websites at no charge, for the benefit of all.
> >
> > You can't have it both ways.
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Tony

Hi Tim,
Well a business is suppose tomakes money. A nonprofit is
suppose to break even. Now what about my baby? I put the incomming
money into more parts to make new machines. I average a new item per
month. Now if I was to post everything for FREE! Then how would it
work.
Let me seeeeee Ahhhh Yesss Like the BBS I ran for three years
for FREE. Cost me $12,000 plus lots of time. My new idea works alot
better. People who buy a set of plans cause more plans to be made
avalible. I retired at 37 years old. I went through my savings
helping others, Now I am wiser! I think we need a name for this kind
of animal. It don't walk like a duck so we can't call it a duck. We
need a name Hmmmm! Maybe an indirect group effort, IGE


President of IGE

John

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@y..., "Tim Goldstein" <timg@k...> wrote:
> John,
>
> Based upon Enron, Kmart, and many others making money is not the
deciding
> factor in whether you are a business. You offer a product for sale.
That
> makes you a businessman by default. Like it or not. Now if you just
posted
> your stuff on the web for free I would likely agree that you are
not running
> a business.
>
> I am not commenting on whether your product is good or bad as I
have not
> seen your plans. I love the concept of a low cost "starter" CNC
package. I
> think it is something the hobby sorely needs. I feel many people
would be
> better served if they got something to start learning with than
spent years
> in analysis paralysis because this stuff can be so expensive.
>
> Tim
> [Denver, CO]
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> > Tony,
> > What you did was a stunt! I have a tax number and I keep
records
> > of every sale. But I am nonprofit. I retired at 37 and I am now an
> > old man of 50. I share my plans and ideas with other. I charge a
small
> > fee for my plans. I use the money to buy more parts. I work 18
hours
> > a day 7 days a week. I love what I am doing. It's my life and I
will
> > do what I want! So if anyone want to talk Milling Circuit boards
I am
> > here for that! I am not a businessman, they make money!
> >
> > John

John

Can we please stop this non-sense. I getting a headache reading
all this stuff, that has little or no value to what this group
is about. So if anyone verbally attacks you or your products
using this forum, please don't respond. Its not worth it and I
am running out of aspirin.

Any one who uses this forum to attack anyone, in my book, has little
or no credibility. Period!

I personally think you charge a fair price for your products.
Yes, I could possibly locate similar items on the web for free,
however there is a cost associate with that as well (its call time).

So, thank you John to the contribution you give this group. Its is
obvious that you have a vast amount of knowledge on PCB building, and
from what I have seen here, are willing to help anyone who asks.

I am really looking forward to seeing the plans to your PCB Mill.
(mailed you a check about 2 days ago) I am planning on building
this next month, and will inform everyone here on my progress.

Thanks for listening to me snivel.

Daryl Owen

-----Original Message-----
From: crankorgan [mailto:john@...]
Sent: Friday, April 19, 2002 3:33 PM
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: re making a dxf into cam OT


Hi Tim,
Well a business is suppose tomakes money. A nonprofit is
suppose to break even. Now what about my baby? I put the incomming
money into more parts to make new machines. I average a new item per
month. Now if I was to post everything for FREE! Then how would it
work.
Let me seeeeee Ahhhh Yesss Like the BBS I ran for three years
for FREE. Cost me $12,000 plus lots of time. My new idea works alot
better. People who buy a set of plans cause more plans to be made
avalible. I retired at 37 years old. I went through my savings
helping others, Now I am wiser! I think we need a name for this kind
of animal. It don't walk like a duck so we can't call it a duck. We
need a name Hmmmm! Maybe an indirect group effort, IGE


President of IGE

John

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@y..., "Tim Goldstein" <timg@k...> wrote:
> John,
>
> Based upon Enron, Kmart, and many others making money is not the
deciding
> factor in whether you are a business. You offer a product for sale.
That
> makes you a businessman by default. Like it or not. Now if you just
posted
> your stuff on the web for free I would likely agree that you are
not running
> a business.
>
> I am not commenting on whether your product is good or bad as I
have not
> seen your plans. I love the concept of a low cost "starter" CNC
package. I
> think it is something the hobby sorely needs. I feel many people
would be
> better served if they got something to start learning with than
spent years
> in analysis paralysis because this stuff can be so expensive.
>
> Tim
> [Denver, CO]
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> > Tony,
> > What you did was a stunt! I have a tax number and I keep
records
> > of every sale. But I am nonprofit. I retired at 37 and I am now an
> > old man of 50. I share my plans and ideas with other. I charge a
small
> > fee for my plans. I use the money to buy more parts. I work 18
hours
> > a day 7 days a week. I love what I am doing. It's my life and I
will
> > do what I want! So if anyone want to talk Milling Circuit boards
I am
> > here for that! I am not a businessman, they make money!
> >
> > John



To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Daryl, well said.

This is from the moderator: stop the sniping attacks! Reviews are
welcome, sniping passive-aggressive attacks are not.

Don't make me use the blink tag! <blink>Stop it!</blink>

Daryl, I'm looking forward to your review.

Steve

--- Daryl Owen <picstuff@...> wrote:

> Any one who uses this forum to attack anyone, in my book, has
> little
> or no credibility. Period!

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