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PTH Process

PTH Process

2012-02-25 by Dave M

I recently ran across a booklet that I had bought (online) a number of years 
ago that describes, in pretty good detail, a process for making PCBs with 
plated through holes.  The process it describes uses an electroless copper 
plating process to get copper onto the walls of the holes, then 
electroplating copper to deposit the final layer of copper, and finally, the 
photoresist application, developing and etching  The photoresist and 
developing chemicals that the author specifies in the booklet are rather 
expensive.
I have looked high and low on the web for any reference to this booklet, 
without success.  The booklet contains no copyright info, not even the 
author's name.  I've scanned the document and am willing to make it 
available to the group.  I'd like to get set up to try this process if 
someone could recommend some alternative photo chemicals (much less 
expensive) to use in the process.   I can see that this process could indeed 
produce some high quality multilayer boards, but for a hobbyist, the expense 
is just too high using the photo chemicals suggested in the document.
The original document specified Kepro chemicals, but I found that Kepro was 
transformed into D&L Products, Inc (Dalpro).  I updated the text to reflect 
current contact info.

I'll post the document to the files area, and would love to hear comments 
(pro and con).  The document is titled "The PTH Process For Homebrewers", 
and is a PDF document.

Dave M
A woman has the last word in any argument. Anything a man says after that is 
the beginning of a new argument. 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] PTH Process

2012-02-25 by Donald H Locker

Took me a while to find it, so I'm posting a link to the directory it's in.
<http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs/files/through%20hole%20plating/> 

Thanks, Dave.
Donald.
--
*Plain Text* email -- it's an accessibility issue
()  no proprietary attachments; no html mail
/\  ascii ribbon campaign - <www.asciiribbon.org>

----- Original Message -----
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> From: "Dave M" <dgminala@...>
> To: "Yahoo Homebrew_PCB" <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Saturday, February 25, 2012 11:56:09 AM
> Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] PTH Process
> I recently ran across a booklet that I had bought (online) a number of
> years
> ago that describes, in pretty good detail, a process for making PCBs
> with
> plated through holes. The process it describes uses an electroless
> copper
> plating process to get copper onto the walls of the holes, then
> electroplating copper to deposit the final layer of copper, and
> finally, the
> photoresist application, developing and etching The photoresist and
> developing chemicals that the author specifies in the booklet are
> rather
> expensive.
> I have looked high and low on the web for any reference to this
> booklet,
> without success. The booklet contains no copyright info, not even the
> author's name. I've scanned the document and am willing to make it
> available to the group. I'd like to get set up to try this process if
> someone could recommend some alternative photo chemicals (much less
> expensive) to use in the process. I can see that this process could
> indeed
> produce some high quality multilayer boards, but for a hobbyist, the
> expense
> is just too high using the photo chemicals suggested in the document.
> The original document specified Kepro chemicals, but I found that
> Kepro was
> transformed into D&L Products, Inc (Dalpro). I updated the text to
> reflect
> current contact info.
> 
> I'll post the document to the files area, and would love to hear
> comments
> (pro and con). The document is titled "The PTH Process For
> Homebrewers",
> and is a PDF document.
> 
> Dave M
> A woman has the last word in any argument. Anything a man says after
> that is
> the beginning of a new argument.
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------
> 
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and
> Photos:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
>

Re: PTH Process

2012-02-25 by Terry

A simpler/cheaper alternative to electroless prepping of the holes, that seems to work quite well, is to use graphite laden india ink.  Add about 10 grams of graphite to a one ounce bottle of india ink and mix well.  Then, spread the ink thoroughly on one side of the board.  Use a shop-vac to suck excess ink out from the bottom side.  Then, flip the board and repeat.  Wipe away the excess ink from the board with a paper towel dampened with acetone.  Allow to air dry, or use a heat gun, hair dryer, or oven to thoroughly dry the board.  The idea is that the electroplated copper will adhere to the graphite coating the hole.  This method works pretty well.

Think and Tinker carries sells a special ink for this process as well.  Or, if you happen to have some of the circuit writer silver ink, it works, as well.  I just happen to have a 4 oz. bottle of it from an earlier experiment to see if I could do thru-hole plating without electroplating.  Turns out that it doesn't work reliably.



--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Donald H Locker <dhlocker@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> Took me a while to find it, so I'm posting a link to the directory it's in.
> <http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs/files/through%20hole%20plating/> 
> 
> Thanks, Dave.
> Donald.
> --
> *Plain Text* email -- it's an accessibility issue
> ()  no proprietary attachments; no html mail
> /\  ascii ribbon campaign - <www.asciiribbon.org>
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Dave M" <dgminala@...>
> > To: "Yahoo Homebrew_PCB" <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Saturday, February 25, 2012 11:56:09 AM
> > Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] PTH Process
> > I recently ran across a booklet that I had bought (online) a number of
> > years
> > ago that describes, in pretty good detail, a process for making PCBs
> > with
> > plated through holes. The process it describes uses an electroless
> > copper
> > plating process to get copper onto the walls of the holes, then
> > electroplating copper to deposit the final layer of copper, and
> > finally, the
> > photoresist application, developing and etching The photoresist and
> > developing chemicals that the author specifies in the booklet are
> > rather
> > expensive.
> > I have looked high and low on the web for any reference to this
> > booklet,
> > without success. The booklet contains no copyright info, not even the
> > author's name. I've scanned the document and am willing to make it
> > available to the group. I'd like to get set up to try this process if
> > someone could recommend some alternative photo chemicals (much less
> > expensive) to use in the process. I can see that this process could
> > indeed
> > produce some high quality multilayer boards, but for a hobbyist, the
> > expense
> > is just too high using the photo chemicals suggested in the document.
> > The original document specified Kepro chemicals, but I found that
> > Kepro was
> > transformed into D&L Products, Inc (Dalpro). I updated the text to
> > reflect
> > current contact info.
> > 
> > I'll post the document to the files area, and would love to hear
> > comments
> > (pro and con). The document is titled "The PTH Process For
> > Homebrewers",
> > and is a PDF document.
> > 
> > Dave M
> > A woman has the last word in any argument. Anything a man says after
> > that is
> > the beginning of a new argument.
> > 
> > 
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ------------------------------------
> > 
> > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and
> > Photos:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
> > 
> > 
> >
>

Re: PTH Process

2012-02-27 by ohmware

I just read something that intrigued me in the book "How to Diagnose and Fix Everything Electronic" by Michael Jay Geier. He talks about some newer PCBs in commercially manufactured produces using conductive glue in through-holes rather than plating. He goes on to say that he hates seeing these, as he has found them to be a source of un-repairable problems in some of the items that have crossed his bench, but nonetheless it got me wondering


Has anyone explored using the conductive epoxy mixes in lieu of plating for through-holes? And if so with what results?

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Terry" <twgray2007@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> A simpler/cheaper alternative to electroless prepping of the holes, that seems to work quite well, is to use graphite laden india ink.  Add about 10 grams of graphite to a one ounce bottle of india ink and mix well.  Then, spread the ink thoroughly on one side of the board.  Use a shop-vac to suck excess ink out from the bottom side.  Then, flip the board and repeat.  Wipe away the excess ink from the board with a paper towel dampened with acetone.  Allow to air dry, or use a heat gun, hair dryer, or oven to thoroughly dry the board.  The idea is that the electroplated copper will adhere to the graphite coating the hole.  This method works pretty well.
> 
> Think and Tinker carries sells a special ink for this process as well.  Or, if you happen to have some of the circuit writer silver ink, it works, as well.  I just happen to have a 4 oz. bottle of it from an earlier experiment to see if I could do thru-hole plating without electroplating.  Turns out that it doesn't work reliably.
> 
> 
> 
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Donald H Locker <dhlocker@> wrote:
> >
> > Took me a while to find it, so I'm posting a link to the directory it's in.
> > <http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs/files/through%20hole%20plating/> 
> > 
> > Thanks, Dave.
> > Donald.
> > --
> > *Plain Text* email -- it's an accessibility issue
> > ()  no proprietary attachments; no html mail
> > /\  ascii ribbon campaign - <www.asciiribbon.org>
> > 
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Dave M" <dgminala@>
> > > To: "Yahoo Homebrew_PCB" <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
> > > Sent: Saturday, February 25, 2012 11:56:09 AM
> > > Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] PTH Process
> > > I recently ran across a booklet that I had bought (online) a number of
> > > years
> > > ago that describes, in pretty good detail, a process for making PCBs
> > > with
> > > plated through holes. The process it describes uses an electroless
> > > copper
> > > plating process to get copper onto the walls of the holes, then
> > > electroplating copper to deposit the final layer of copper, and
> > > finally, the
> > > photoresist application, developing and etching The photoresist and
> > > developing chemicals that the author specifies in the booklet are
> > > rather
> > > expensive.
> > > I have looked high and low on the web for any reference to this
> > > booklet,
> > > without success. The booklet contains no copyright info, not even the
> > > author's name. I've scanned the document and am willing to make it
> > > available to the group. I'd like to get set up to try this process if
> > > someone could recommend some alternative photo chemicals (much less
> > > expensive) to use in the process. I can see that this process could
> > > indeed
> > > produce some high quality multilayer boards, but for a hobbyist, the
> > > expense
> > > is just too high using the photo chemicals suggested in the document.
> > > The original document specified Kepro chemicals, but I found that
> > > Kepro was
> > > transformed into D&L Products, Inc (Dalpro). I updated the text to
> > > reflect
> > > current contact info.
> > > 
> > > I'll post the document to the files area, and would love to hear
> > > comments
> > > (pro and con). The document is titled "The PTH Process For
> > > Homebrewers",
> > > and is a PDF document.
> > > 
> > > Dave M
> > > A woman has the last word in any argument. Anything a man says after
> > > that is
> > > the beginning of a new argument.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > ------------------------------------
> > > 
> > > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and
> > > Photos:
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
> > > 
> > > 
> > >
> >
>

Re: PTH Process

2012-02-28 by studleylee

goto http://www.thinktink.com/stack/volumes/volvi/condink.htm


--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "ohmware" <kaelin@...> wrote:
>
> I just read something that intrigued me in the book "How to Diagnose and Fix Everything Electronic" by Michael Jay Geier. He talks about some newer PCBs in commercially manufactured produces using conductive glue in through-holes rather than plating. He goes on to say that he hates seeing these, as he has found them to be a s

Re: PTH Process

2012-02-28 by ohmware

That link points to a process that's only intended for hole wall activation. You still have to electroplate afterwards to have permanent connections between the layers. What is described in the book is the use of a conductive glue that completely fills the vias (and leaves little bumps on the surface of the PCB) when it sets up / cures.

The author does not offer any insight as to why a commercial manufacturer might go for this method over electroplating, as his book is just about repair. He basically points these out only to say that he's seen problems with them-- and they can't really be fixed in an electronics shop.

I've no idea what glue they'd use, unless it's the silver-bearing epoxy stuff. The usual complaint about that stuff is that it's expensive
 But for hand-made PCBs it's probably not out of line.

I'm interested because I've been investigating electroplating, and while it seems straightforward it does involve liquids that have to be disposed of, and fumes, and I'm trying real hard to develop a complete process that I can use in a lab that sadly doesn't have a sink or good ventilation.

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "studleylee" <indigo_red@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> goto http://www.thinktink.com/stack/volumes/volvi/condink.htm
> 
> 
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "ohmware" <kaelin@> wrote:
> >
> > I just read something that intrigued me in the book "How to Diagnose and Fix Everything Electronic" by Michael Jay Geier. He talks about some newer PCBs in commercially manufactured produces using conductive glue in through-holes rather than plating. He goes on to say that he hates seeing these, as he has found them to be a s
>

Re: PTH Process

2012-03-07 by ohmware

I've been trying this idea on an experimental board. I purchased some MG Chemicals Silver Conductive Epoxy and have used it to connect the layers on a small, two-sided PCB design with 29 vias.

I applied the epoxy by mixing a small amount and brushing it on the drilled top copper while the bottom rested on a piece of paper. I then used a plastic paint spreader to make one smooth wipe across the board to remove the bulk of the excess epoxy. At this point you can see that the vias are filled. (There are some light streaks of epoxy left on the surface too, but this residue gets removed later.)

This epoxy can cure at room temperature, but I opted to use a hot plate to cut the curing time down to 15m. I pre-heated the plate to 65C per the manufacturer's instructions and after the 15m let the plate cool down with the board resting in place.

Next I carefully peeled away the bottom paper, being careful not to pull directly upwards on any of the filled vias. Then I removed all traces of the epoxy left on the top and bottom copper surfaces using fine grit metal finishing sandpaper stretched over a sanding block.

The board was then ready for CNC milling. (I'm not sure how this would fit into a chemical etching process. Maybe someone here has an idea?) After milling the top and bottom traces I went over each one with a multimeter to see how the process worked.

The good news is that all of my vias made connections. The not-so-good news is that the silver-laden epoxy is of course less conductive than solid copper, so all of my vias introduce small resistances into the circuit. My Radio Shack multimeter measured resistances ranging from .3 to .7 ohms, with an average trace passing through two vias end-to-end picking up .7 ohms of resistance total (so on average 3.5 ohms for each epoxy via).

My next step is to solder on the components using the hot-plate technique and see how the epoxy tolerates the heat. The specs give a maximum operating temperature of 150C so I will be trying a "low-temperature" solder paste (liquidus at 138C).

I am calling the experiment a qualified success... Probably not great for analog designs but it meets my criteria for quick, reliable and relatively low-mess / easy clean-up. The small amount of hardened waste epoxy can simply be dropped in the trash, as all it contains is silver. No chemicals baths or subsequent liquid disposal required!

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "ohmware" <kaelin@...> wrote:
>
> That link points to a process that's only intended for hole wall activation. You still have to electroplate afterwards to have permanent connections between the layers. What is described in the book is the use of a conductive glue that completely fills the vias (and leaves little bumps on the surface of the PCB) when it sets up / cures.
> 
> The author does not offer any insight as to why a commercial manufacturer might go for this method over electroplating, as his book is just about repair. He basically points these out only to say that he's seen problems with them-- and they can't really be fixed in an electronics shop.
> 
> I've no idea what glue they'd use, unless it's the silver-bearing epoxy stuff. The usual complaint about that stuff is that it's expensive
 But for hand-made PCBs it's probably not out of line.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> 
> I'm interested because I've been investigating electroplating, and while it seems straightforward it does involve liquids that have to be disposed of, and fumes, and I'm trying real hard to develop a complete process that I can use in a lab that sadly doesn't have a sink or good ventilation.
> 
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "studleylee" <indigo_red@> wrote:
> >
> > goto http://www.thinktink.com/stack/volumes/volvi/condink.htm
> > 
> > 
> > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "ohmware" <kaelin@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I just read something that intrigued me in the book "How to Diagnose and Fix Everything Electronic" by Michael Jay Geier. He talks about some newer PCBs in commercially manufactured produces using conductive glue in through-holes rather than plating. He goes on to say that he hates seeing these, as he has found them to be a s
> >
>

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