Homebrew PCBs

Howdy, homebrew folks.

I've done a bunch of googling, searched the homebrew PCB archives, and the like, and the information I've been able to find on this subject is... sparse. So, I figured I'd ask more directly.

I'm looking to spend probably a few thousand dollars in the near future for a CNC setup at home. Though not exclusively for them, PCBs is one of the things I'd like it to be able to do well.

Unfortunately there seems to be very few resources out there that list what setups are actually available, how they compare, that kind of thing. I can find a site here or a site there that give a little information, but frequently not enough to really be useful.

So, my question is... is anyone familiar with such a resource, that would list the options (specifically with PCB milling in mine), the pros and cons of each, etc? Or, does anyone have a cheat sheet they can post (or email) that at least lists the options?

I really appreciate any information that folks can toss my way.

Thanks!

-jay

you want the pcb-gcode (Eagle) yahoo group for that. 

This is probably the better place though for all around, drilling could be by cad/cam (Bob-cam or?) but the traces just cant be near as fine as a good photolithography set up can. For a lot of boards though an all milling set up would be ok I guess, just a lot of dust and mill/drill bits to go through, the noise etc., if you want to spend that much just look on eBay for a used LPKF machine.

The way I'm setting up is with an internally heated 4 silicon roller laminator and dry film negative laminate sheets, pretty much as fine as you can print on transparency you can etch.


Robert

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Jay" <elfchief-yahoo@...> wrote:

>
> Howdy, homebrew folks.
> 
> I've done a bunch of googling, searched the homebrew PCB archives, and the like, and the information I've been able to find on this subject is... sparse. So, I figured I'd ask more directly.
> 
> I'm looking to spend probably a few thousand dollars in the near future for a CNC setup at home. Though not exclusively for them, PCBs is one of the things I'd like it to be able to do well.
> 
> Unfortunately there seems to be very few resources out there that list what setups are actually available, how they compare, that kind of thing. I can find a site here or a site there that give a little information, but frequently not enough to really be useful.
> 
> So, my question is... is anyone familiar with such a resource, that would list the options (specifically with PCB milling in mine), the pros and cons of each, etc? Or, does anyone have a cheat sheet they can post (or email) that at least lists the options?
> 
> I really appreciate any information that folks can toss my way.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> -jay
>

On Mon, 27 Feb 2012 06:57:51 -0000, you wrote:

>Howdy, homebrew folks.
>
>I've done a bunch of googling, searched the homebrew PCB archives, and the like, and the information I've been able to find on this subject is... sparse. So, I figured I'd ask more directly.
>
>I'm looking to spend probably a few thousand dollars in the near future for a CNC setup at home. Though not exclusively for them, PCBs is one of the things I'd like it to be able to do well.

PC boards need a high speed spindle for routine and drilling.  Low
mass, and the tools have a limited life.  One estimate is 75 linear
feet of machining (look at a complicated board to see how little that
may be).  They also cost 5 to 10 USD per tool bit, and that's the
discount price.

The actual movement speed of the table may be less important, and
there's a limit to the minimum width of the path that can be removed.

One option is a proxxon (or equivalent) as an add-on to the X series
(Harbor Freight (etc) micromill, minimill, etc).

What it works out to is that PC board milling may not be useful
depending on the size of the boards and the complexity, and the size
of the traces you want.

>
>Unfortunately there seems to be very few resources out there that list what setups are actually available, how they compare, that kind of thing. I can find a site here or a site there that give a little information, but frequently not enough to really be useful.
>
>So, my question is... is anyone familiar with such a resource, that would list the options (specifically with PCB milling in mine), the pros and cons of each, etc? Or, does anyone have a cheat sheet they can post (or email) that at least lists the options?

I would recommend a standard CNC setup, with an add on spindle.  The
spindle will be a Proxxon (use the AC model), and will allow you to
work in both worlds. 

The LKPF machines (or the T-Tech machines) generally must be used with
their own software, which adds an additional cost of several hundred
dollars to the price, if not included.

The T-Tech machine has a processor in it that interprets their own
proprietary G-code version, and must be bypassed for a general CNC
driver solution.  The head is a solenoid drill, which has two states,
up and down, and is not a full Z axis.  Definitely a PC board setup
only.

Harvey

>
>I really appreciate any information that folks can toss my way.
>
>Thanks!
>
>-jay
>
>
>
>------------------------------------
>
>Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Have you found the CNCZone.com site? There is an overwhelming amount of information and ideas there. A lot of PCB CNC information too.
 
cary

--- On Mon, 2/27/12, Jay <elfchief-yahoo@...> wrote:

From: Jay <elfchief-yahoo@...>
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] CNC choices for PCB creation
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, February 27, 2012, 1:57 AM



  



Howdy, homebrew folks.

I've done a bunch of googling, searched the homebrew PCB archives, and the like, and the information I've been able to find on this subject is... sparse. So, I figured I'd ask more directly.

I'm looking to spend probably a few thousand dollars in the near future for a CNC setup at home. Though not exclusively for them, PCBs is one of the things I'd like it to be able to do well.

Unfortunately there seems to be very few resources out there that list what setups are actually available, how they compare, that kind of thing. I can find a site here or a site there that give a little information, but frequently not enough to really be useful.

So, my question is... is anyone familiar with such a resource, that would list the options (specifically with PCB milling in mine), the pros and cons of each, etc? Or, does anyone have a cheat sheet they can post (or email) that at least lists the options?

I really appreciate any information that folks can toss my way.

Thanks!

-jay








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Jay,

Get on #linuxcnc or #diycnc of freenode. The folks there are awesome and
can get you going.

some sample info that I have:

buy:
----

http://www.ebay.de/itm/CNC-3020-Router-Engraver-Drilling-Milling-machine-Neu-/280680085334?_trksid=p5197.m185&_trkparms=algo%3DSIC.NPJS%26itu%3DI%252BUA%26otn%3D12%26pmod%3D120833940263%252B120834810495%252B120813745732%26po%3DLVI%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D5325942910028628560

make:
-----

cnc frame, but change to ball screws
   ebay item:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sable-2015-CNC-ROUTER-ENGRAVER-mill-PCBs-engraving-/190636230989?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c62ce094d
   above suggested by Jt-shop

   alternative from zentoolworks
      http://www.zentoolworks.com/product_info.php?cPath=14&products_id=74

stepper driver:
   first choice: gecko G540
      alternative: gecko G251
   for such a small machine, use TB6560 3axis board for 60Dollars, instead

http://www.ebay.de/itm/3-Achse-TB6560AHQ-Schrittmotor-Steuerkarte-0-5A-2-5A-/140702843278?pt=Motoren_Getriebe&hash=item20c28b018e
   of the gecko G540

http://www.ebay.de/itm/3-Achse-TB6560AHQ-Schrittmotor-Steuerkarte-0-5A-2-5A-/140702843278?pt=Motoren_Getriebe&hash=item20c28b018e

spindle, motor
   proxxon IB/E for the motor
   proxxon IB/E > wolfgang
   wolfgang http://www.wolfgangengineering.com/Home.php
   input from
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/pcb_milling/81836-cnc_pcb_mill_buy_diy-2.html

motor mount:
   for the proxxon IB/E, the mount is a 20mm hole in your tool clamp

power supply: old pc psu will not be good enough, need a better one
   relevant notes from #linuxcnc
12:19 < archivist> I picked an old Lambda 24v 20A psu, was adjustable to
moved it up to 28v
12:19 < sirhoax> yes my 12v psu drops voltage.
12:19 < sirhoax> cnc moves way to slow.
12:20 < sirhoax> nemic lambda makes good psu's
12:20 < sirhoax> got one here for electroplating
12:20 < sirhoax> 5v@120a.
12:21 < archivist> psu on right
http://www.archivist.info/cnc/stagetwo/P1190002.JPG
12:21 < ManMower> I don't think it'd do any harm to test drive it with a pc
psu before upgrading.

stepper motor is built into the sable stepper motor:
    epson Astron steppers

http://www.ebay.de/itm/SCHRITTMOTOR-STEPMOTOR-ASTROSYN-23LM-C355-44W-s-BILD-STEP-MOTOR-/270827237702?pt=Motoren_Getriebe&hash=item3f0e8fb146

Later


On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 1:57 AM, Jay <elfchief-yahoo@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> Howdy, homebrew folks.
>
> I've done a bunch of googling, searched the homebrew PCB archives, and the
> like, and the information I've been able to find on this subject is...
> sparse. So, I figured I'd ask more directly.
>
> I'm looking to spend probably a few thousand dollars in the near future
> for a CNC setup at home. Though not exclusively for them, PCBs is one of
> the things I'd like it to be able to do well.
>
> Unfortunately there seems to be very few resources out there that list
> what setups are actually available, how they compare, that kind of thing. I
> can find a site here or a site there that give a little information, but
> frequently not enough to really be useful.
>
> So, my question is... is anyone familiar with such a resource, that would
> list the options (specifically with PCB milling in mine), the pros and cons
> of each, etc? Or, does anyone have a cheat sheet they can post (or email)
> that at least lists the options?
>
> I really appreciate any information that folks can toss my way.
>
> Thanks!
>
> -jay
>
>  
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I have been doing some exploration of this topic on my own, using the Desktop and Buddy ShopBot machines available at the TechShop. Basically my conclusion was that those are not the really the right machines for the job, but if they're all you have they can be made to work.

If there are enough interested members on the list who are close to a TechShop location, it might be interesting to try to organize a meet-up sometime. Or is there already a list meet-up group?

Although not exactly what you are asking for, I did build my own CNC system and I do use it successfully for isolation routing of PCBs.
True it is not as fine-lined as a photo process, it is a lot louder and makes some dust, but there are no nasty chemicals & such.  Like life, it's all about trade-offs.
Anyhow, you might pick up a trick or two from my blog.  Cheers and good milling.

http://woodworkerbcncrouterproject.blogspot.com/

Hello Brian,

That is some pretty cool stuff you have there. Do you hang around in the
#linuxcnc of freenode? Would be cool to get your advice, once I start
building my cnc machine too.

Thanks,
Joe

On Wed, Feb 29, 2012 at 5:32 PM, Brian <brian.volken@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> Although not exactly what you are asking for, I did build my own CNC
> system and I do use it successfully for isolation routing of PCBs.
> True it is not as fine-lined as a photo process, it is a lot louder and
> makes some dust, but there are no nasty chemicals & such. Like life, it's
> all about trade-offs.
> Anyhow, you might pick up a trick or two from my blog. Cheers and good
> milling.
>
> http://woodworkerbcncrouterproject.blogspot.com/
>
>  
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I have had some success with Milling PCBs using a 3 axis CNC benchtop machine.  I second the recommendation to visit the PCB forum on www.cnczone.com for a lot of good information.

http://xa.yimg.com/kq/groups/4505361/sn/588202274/name/pcb_3.jpg

Matt






--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Jay" <elfchief-yahoo@...> wrote:

>
> Howdy, homebrew folks.
> 
> I've done a bunch of googling, searched the homebrew PCB archives, and the like, and the information I've been able to find on this subject is... sparse. So, I figured I'd ask more directly.
> 
> I'm looking to spend probably a few thousand dollars in the near future for a CNC setup at home. Though not exclusively for them, PCBs is one of the things I'd like it to be able to do well.
> 
> Unfortunately there seems to be very few resources out there that list what setups are actually available, how they compare, that kind of thing. I can find a site here or a site there that give a little information, but frequently not enough to really be useful.
> 
> So, my question is... is anyone familiar with such a resource, that would list the options (specifically with PCB milling in mine), the pros and cons of each, etc? Or, does anyone have a cheat sheet they can post (or email) that at least lists the options?
> 
> I really appreciate any information that folks can toss my way.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> -jay
>