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2011-04-10 by Randy S.
ok .. 17% peroxide .. 34 % muriatic acid .. mixed 3 : 1 .. never seen copper come off a board that fast .. ever .. did it outdoors .. respirator .. goggles .. gloves .. anyways.. should the solution be bubbling even AFTER I take the board out ?? whats it mean .. I put more 3 % peroxide in it .. calmed it down .. is it safe? Randy
2011-04-10 by RJ
ok .. it finally calmed down .. I was like .. YIKES !! What have I done .. lol --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Randy S." <rj3819@...> wrote:
> > ok .. 17% peroxide .. > 34 % muriatic acid .. > mixed 3 : 1 .. > never seen copper come off a board that fast .. ever .. > did it outdoors .. respirator .. goggles .. gloves .. > anyways.. should the solution be bubbling even AFTER I take the > board out ?? whats it mean .. I put more 3 % peroxide in it .. > calmed it down .. is it safe? > > Randy >
2011-04-10 by Harvey White
On Sun, 10 Apr 2011 10:57:23 -0700 (PDT), you wrote: >ok .. 17% peroxide .. >34 % muriatic acid .. >mixed 3 : 1 .. >never seen copper come off a board that fast .. ever .. >did it outdoors .. respirator .. goggles .. gloves .. >anyways.. should the solution be bubbling even AFTER I take the >board out ?? whats it mean .. I put more 3 % peroxide in it .. >calmed it down .. is it safe? The peroxide is going to decompose and release oxygen, that's what you see. It will calm down in about 30 days to the point where it doesn't want to do much. Regenerate it by bubbling oxygen through it. It eventually changes to a different kind of etchant, takes longer, is a bit more mild in terms of action. Nothing to worry about in the proportions you used. Harvey
> >Randy > > > >------------------------------------ > >Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos: >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links > > >
2011-04-10 by RJ
ok .. thanks Harvey .. Does it also change color when it calms down? When I added more 3% peroxide .. it changed color.. and slowed down the etching process immensely. Didnt seem like I added all that much either.. --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Harvey White <madyn@...> wrote:
> > On Sun, 10 Apr 2011 10:57:23 -0700 (PDT), you wrote: > > >ok .. 17% peroxide .. > >34 % muriatic acid .. > >mixed 3 : 1 .. > >never seen copper come off a board that fast .. ever .. > >did it outdoors .. respirator .. goggles .. gloves .. > >anyways.. should the solution be bubbling even AFTER I take the > >board out ?? whats it mean .. I put more 3 % peroxide in it .. > >calmed it down .. is it safe? > > The peroxide is going to decompose and release oxygen, that's what you > see. It will calm down in about 30 days to the point where it doesn't > want to do much. > > Regenerate it by bubbling oxygen through it. It eventually changes to > a different kind of etchant, takes longer, is a bit more mild in > terms of action. > > Nothing to worry about in the proportions you used. > > Harvey > > > > >Randy > > > > > > > >------------------------------------ > > > >Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos: > >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >
2011-04-10 by Harvey White
On Sun, 10 Apr 2011 19:40:39 -0000, you wrote: >ok .. thanks Harvey .. >Does it also change color when it calms down? >When I added more 3% peroxide .. it changed color.. >and slowed down the etching process immensely. >Didnt seem like I added all that much either.. As I remember, it started clear, then turned light and transparent green. As the etchant changes, it goes to an olive color/dark green. The 17% peroxide was more than needed, it is usually mixed in that ratio using 3%. You diluted it a bit, and that probably needed to be done. Adding more peroxide later will tend to turn it transparent green. As it ages, it does need oxygen to make the reaction run, that's the function of the peroxide. Harvey
> > >--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Harvey White <madyn@...> wrote: >> >> On Sun, 10 Apr 2011 10:57:23 -0700 (PDT), you wrote: >> >> >ok .. 17% peroxide .. >> >34 % muriatic acid .. >> >mixed 3 : 1 .. >> >never seen copper come off a board that fast .. ever .. >> >did it outdoors .. respirator .. goggles .. gloves .. >> >anyways.. should the solution be bubbling even AFTER I take the >> >board out ?? whats it mean .. I put more 3 % peroxide in it .. >> >calmed it down .. is it safe? >> >> The peroxide is going to decompose and release oxygen, that's what you >> see. It will calm down in about 30 days to the point where it doesn't >> want to do much. >> >> Regenerate it by bubbling oxygen through it. It eventually changes to >> a different kind of etchant, takes longer, is a bit more mild in >> terms of action. >> >> Nothing to worry about in the proportions you used. >> >> Harvey >> >> > >> >Randy >> > >> > >> > >> >------------------------------------ >> > >> >Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos: >> >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > >------------------------------------ > >Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos: >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links > > >
2011-04-10 by Erik Knise
Randy, with 17% H2O2 and 34% HCL the ratio is about even for the reaction. With 3% H2O2 and 34% HCL you need about 5 times as much peroxide as HCL. You can use the calculator I wrote to play with the numbers: http://www.totse2.com/easy-e/cupricchloride.html -- Erik L. Knise Seattle, WA
On Sun, Apr 10, 2011 at 2:49 PM, Harvey White <madyn@...> wrote: > On Sun, 10 Apr 2011 19:40:39 -0000, you wrote: > >>ok .. thanks Harvey .. >>Does it also change color when it calms down? >>When I added more 3% peroxide .. it changed color.. >>and slowed down the etching process immensely. >>Didnt seem like I added all that much either.. > > As I remember, it started clear, then turned light and transparent > green. As the etchant changes, it goes to an olive color/dark green. > The 17% peroxide was more than needed, it is usually mixed in that > ratio using 3%. > > You diluted it a bit, and that probably needed to be done. > > Adding more peroxide later will tend to turn it transparent green. As > it ages, it does need oxygen to make the reaction run, that's the > function of the peroxide. > > Harvey > >> >> >>--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Harvey White <madyn@...> wrote: >>> >>> On Sun, 10 Apr 2011 10:57:23 -0700 (PDT), you wrote: >>> >>> >ok .. 17% peroxide .. >>> >34 % muriatic acid .. >>> >mixed 3 : 1 .. >>> >never seen copper come off a board that fast .. ever .. >>> >did it outdoors .. respirator .. goggles .. gloves .. >>> >anyways.. should the solution be bubbling even AFTER I take the >>> >board out ?? whats it mean .. I put more 3 % peroxide in it .. >>> >calmed it down .. is it safe? >>> >>> The peroxide is going to decompose and release oxygen, that's what you >>> see. It will calm down in about 30 days to the point where it doesn't >>> want to do much. >>> >>> Regenerate it by bubbling oxygen through it. It eventually changes to >>> a different kind of etchant, takes longer, is a bit more mild in >>> terms of action. >>> >>> Nothing to worry about in the proportions you used. >>> >>> Harvey >>> >>> > >>> >Randy >>> > >>> >
2011-04-11 by RJ
Thanks .. thats a great tool .. Helps a lot .. ok .. so I am going to cut the H2O2 solution again, down to 10 ish percent.. Question .. if I mix equal proportions of hydrogen peroxide, one being 3 percent and another being 35 percent .. whats the end result? I know it may not be as simple as averaging .. thats the mix that I called 17 percent .. but I see what you mean about the etchant mix I had started with .. too much oxygen there .. say one thing though .. never ever seen a board etch in less than one minute like that before.. holy crap .. Thanks again for the help and the calculator. Randy --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Erik Knise <elknise@...> wrote:
> > Randy, with 17% H2O2 and 34% HCL the ratio is about even for the > reaction. With 3% H2O2 and 34% HCL you need about 5 times as much > peroxide as HCL. > > You can use the calculator I wrote to play with the numbers: > http://www.totse2.com/easy-e/cupricchloride.html > > -- > Erik L. Knise > Seattle, WA > > On Sun, Apr 10, 2011 at 2:49 PM, Harvey White <madyn@...> wrote: > > On Sun, 10 Apr 2011 19:40:39 -0000, you wrote: > > > >>ok .. thanks Harvey .. > >>Does it also change color when it calms down? > >>When I added more 3% peroxide .. it changed color.. > >>and slowed down the etching process immensely. > >>Didnt seem like I added all that much either.. > > > > As I remember, it started clear, then turned light and transparent > > green. As the etchant changes, it goes to an olive color/dark green. > > The 17% peroxide was more than needed, it is usually mixed in that > > ratio using 3%. > > > > You diluted it a bit, and that probably needed to be done. > > > > Adding more peroxide later will tend to turn it transparent green. As > > it ages, it does need oxygen to make the reaction run, that's the > > function of the peroxide. > > > > Harvey > > > >> > >> > >>--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Harvey White <madyn@> wrote: > >>> > >>> On Sun, 10 Apr 2011 10:57:23 -0700 (PDT), you wrote: > >>> > >>> >ok .. 17% peroxide .. > >>> >34 % muriatic acid .. > >>> >mixed 3 : 1 .. > >>> >never seen copper come off a board that fast .. ever .. > >>> >did it outdoors .. respirator .. goggles .. gloves .. > >>> >anyways.. should the solution be bubbling even AFTER I take the > >>> >board out ?? whats it mean .. I put more 3 % peroxide in it .. > >>> >calmed it down .. is it safe? > >>> > >>> The peroxide is going to decompose and release oxygen, that's what you > >>> see. It will calm down in about 30 days to the point where it doesn't > >>> want to do much. > >>> > >>> Regenerate it by bubbling oxygen through it. It eventually changes to > >>> a different kind of etchant, takes longer, is a bit more mild in > >>> terms of action. > >>> > >>> Nothing to worry about in the proportions you used. > >>> > >>> Harvey > >>> > >>> > > >>> >Randy > >>> > > >>> > >
2011-04-11 by designer_craig
Randy, Where did you get your 17% Peroxide? Craig --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Randy S." <rj3819@...> wrote:
> > ok .. 17% peroxide .. > 34 % muriatic acid .. > mixed 3 : 1 .. > never seen copper come off a board that fast .. ever .. > did it outdoors .. respirator .. goggles .. gloves .. > anyways.. should the solution be bubbling even AFTER I take the > board out ?? whats it mean .. I put more 3 % peroxide in it .. > calmed it down .. is it safe? > > Randy >
2011-04-12 by RJ
Mixed it . not sure if its exactly 17% .. But at a swimming pool supply place you can get 35% H2O2 .. and I diluted it with the 3% stuff you get in the store .. Randy --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "designer_craig" <cs6061@...> wrote:
> > Randy, > Where did you get your 17% Peroxide? > > Craig > > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Randy S." <rj3819@> wrote: > > > > ok .. 17% peroxide .. > > 34 % muriatic acid .. > > mixed 3 : 1 .. > > never seen copper come off a board that fast .. ever .. > > did it outdoors .. respirator .. goggles .. gloves .. > > anyways.. should the solution be bubbling even AFTER I take the > > board out ?? whats it mean .. I put more 3 % peroxide in it .. > > calmed it down .. is it safe? > > > > Randy > > >
2011-04-12 by RJ
well .. used this formula .. C1V1 +C2V2 / V1 + V2 and got 19% I think .. Hopefully thats the correct formula .. Going to use 9% H202 with a 2:1 ratio of H2O2 to HCL according to the calculator it should be close. Randy --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "RJ" <rj3819@...> wrote:
> > Mixed it . not sure if its exactly 17% .. > But at a swimming pool supply place you can > get 35% H2O2 .. and I diluted it with the 3% > stuff you get in the store .. > > Randy > > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "designer_craig" <cs6061@> wrote: > > > > Randy, > > Where did you get your 17% Peroxide? > > > > Craig > > > > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Randy S." <rj3819@> wrote: > > > > > > ok .. 17% peroxide .. > > > 34 % muriatic acid .. > > > mixed 3 : 1 .. > > > never seen copper come off a board that fast .. ever .. > > > did it outdoors .. respirator .. goggles .. gloves .. > > > anyways.. should the solution be bubbling even AFTER I take the > > > board out ?? whats it mean .. I put more 3 % peroxide in it .. > > > calmed it down .. is it safe? > > > > > > Randy > > > > > >
2011-04-12 by jurod81
If you are interested in fooling around with high strength peroxides (against my advice for beginners since the drug store 3% is strong enough). I would just like to put in my 2 cents. At concentrations above 30% you want to keep any organic compounds (like acetone) far away. You can form organo-peroxides that are unstable high explosives. The amount of water left in 30% peroxide is just at the borderline to be able to quench this sort of explosion, but you can still end up with it boiling in your face. Always keep them in a hydrophobic membrane-vented container away from light and in a chemical safe refrigerator. 30% peroxide has 100x its own volume of oxygen, so keeping it in an enclosed space may produce a highly oxidative atmosphere where things that are normally inflammable burn vigorously. Make sure no transition metal contamination enters the bottle or you will have nothing but water in a week or two. The only reason I mentioned the stuff a few weeks ago was to tell you how I add peroxide into my enchant after it has been used once and stored for a while. Good luck and stay safe, JRod --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "RJ" <rj3819@...> wrote:
> > well .. used this formula .. > C1V1 +C2V2 / V1 + V2 and got 19% I think .. > Hopefully thats the correct formula .. > Going to use 9% H202 with a 2:1 ratio of H2O2 to HCL > according to the calculator it should be close. > > Randy > > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "RJ" <rj3819@> wrote: > > > > Mixed it . not sure if its exactly 17% .. > > But at a swimming pool supply place you can > > get 35% H2O2 .. and I diluted it with the 3% > > stuff you get in the store .. > > > > Randy > > > > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "designer_craig" <cs6061@> wrote: > > > > > > Randy, > > > Where did you get your 17% Peroxide? > > > > > > Craig > > >
2011-04-12 by RJ
Hey ... thanks .. Being as safe as I can .. I am mixing down to about 9 % peroxide .. The Bottle has a bag wrapped around it during storage .. came that way from the pool supply place as well .. The 9% H2O2 is approx a 2:1 mix to HCL .. according to the posted calculator.. It did 4.25 X 10 HV Diode board in about 3 minutes .. Without too crazy of a reaction .. bubbled quite a bit .. I kept the organic respirator and safety goggles and gloves on thru the whole thing and stayed upwind of it .. it worked good .. Thanks for all the advice .. once the gallon of 30% is down to half .. I think I will just fill it back up with the 3% and that way I can keep it stored at a safer concentration. While having it still usable .. as well as reactivation. Randy --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "jurod81" <jurod81@...> wrote:
> > If you are interested in fooling around with high strength peroxides (against my advice for beginners since the drug store 3% is strong enough). I would just like to put in my 2 cents. At concentrations above 30% you want to keep any organic compounds (like acetone) far away. You can form organo-peroxides that are unstable high explosives. The amount of water left in 30% peroxide is just at the borderline to be able to quench this sort of explosion, but you can still end up with it boiling in your face. Always keep them in a hydrophobic membrane-vented container away from light and in a chemical safe refrigerator. 30% peroxide has 100x its own volume of oxygen, so keeping it in an enclosed space may produce a highly oxidative atmosphere where things that are normally inflammable burn vigorously. Make sure no transition metal contamination enters the bottle or you will have nothing but water in a week or two. The only reason I mentioned the stuff a few weeks ago was to tell you how I add peroxide into my enchant after it has been used once and stored for a while. > Good luck and stay safe, > JRod > > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "RJ" <rj3819@> wrote: > > > > well .. used this formula .. > > C1V1 +C2V2 / V1 + V2 and got 19% I think .. > > Hopefully thats the correct formula .. > > Going to use 9% H202 with a 2:1 ratio of H2O2 to HCL > > according to the calculator it should be close. > > > > Randy > > > > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "RJ" <rj3819@> wrote: > > > > > > Mixed it . not sure if its exactly 17% .. > > > But at a swimming pool supply place you can > > > get 35% H2O2 .. and I diluted it with the 3% > > > stuff you get in the store .. > > > > > > Randy > > > > > > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "designer_craig" <cs6061@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Randy, > > > > Where did you get your 17% Peroxide? > > > > > > > > Craig > > > > >
2011-04-12 by designer_craig
Thanks, I had a large bottle of 30% reagent grade years ago but finally disposed of it for lack of use. Got it with a bunch of other chemicals form a chemical milling outfit that was being liquidated. I just looked at the Leslie's Pool Supplies web site, they have it listed under Pool chemicals > Chlorine Alternatives Baquacil Shock and Oxidizer item 13319 for $17.99 per gal. (actual name appears to be Baquacil Oxidizer) The MSDS lists the concentraton at 27.5% http://www.lesliespool.com/Home/Pool-Chemicals/Chlorine-Alternatives/13319.html MSDS http://www.lesliesmsds.com/DocumentCenter.aspx?did=67e4eeb3-f9ea-4d33-88c4-ebd8a015d55b Craig --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "RJ" <rj3819@...> wrote:
> > Mixed it . not sure if its exactly 17% .. > But at a swimming pool supply place you can > get 35% H2O2 .. and I diluted it with the 3% > stuff you get in the store .. > > Randy > > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "designer_craig" <cs6061@> wrote: > > > > Randy, > > Where did you get your 17% Peroxide? > > > > Craig > > > > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Randy S." <rj3819@> wrote: > > > > > > ok .. 17% peroxide .. > > > 34 % muriatic acid .. > > > mixed 3 : 1 .. > > > never seen copper come off a board that fast .. ever .. > > > did it outdoors .. respirator .. goggles .. gloves .. > > > anyways.. should the solution be bubbling even AFTER I take the > > > board out ?? whats it mean .. I put more 3 % peroxide in it .. > > > calmed it down .. is it safe? > > > > > > Randy > > > > > >
2011-04-21 by James
--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "RJ" <rj3819@...> wrote: > > Mixed it . not sure if its exactly 17% .. > But at a swimming pool supply place you can > get 35% H2O2 .. and I diluted it with the 3% > stuff you get in the store .. > > Randy > I should look for some of that, it's quicker to use peroxide to recharge it once it turns to cupric chloride. The original mix of HCL + H2O2 is very fast at etching. The best PCBs I've made used the strongest mix I could make. Etched very quickly and there was zero pitting.