Homebrew_PCBs

I have a Samsung copier I'm using for PCB
toner transfers and the toner seems to adhere
very. very well to the copper.

Using lacquer thinner I have to scrub vigorously
for what seems like forever with a toothbrush to
get it off. And the fumes from that stuff are
pretty bad. Is there anything better for removing
toner? Is this an artifact of the Samsung toner?
I've seen youtube videos of people wiping toner off
with a lacquer soaked paper towel.
That doesn't work at all for my boards.

Try acetone

Regards

Tony Magon VK2IC

Carlton - Sydney

On Sat, Jan 29, 2011 at 11:57 AM, skatefriday <craigm543@...> wrote:

>
>
>
> I have a Samsung copier I'm using for PCB
> toner transfers and the toner seems to adhere
> very. very well to the copper.
>
> Using lacquer thinner I have to scrub vigorously
> for what seems like forever with a toothbrush to
> get it off. And the fumes from that stuff are
> pretty bad. Is there anything better for removing
> toner? Is this an artifact of the Samsung toner?
> I've seen youtube videos of people wiping toner off
> with a lacquer soaked paper towel.
> That doesn't work at all for my boards.
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Craig,

I'm using aceton and it's working fine. Did you try it?

JM
Le 28 janv. 2011 22:58, "skatefriday" <craigm543@...> a écrit :


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Sat, 29 Jan 2011 00:57:40 -0000, you wrote:

>
>I have a Samsung copier I'm using for PCB
>toner transfers and the toner seems to adhere
>very. very well to the copper.
>
>Using lacquer thinner I have to scrub vigorously
>for what seems like forever with a toothbrush to
>get it off. And the fumes from that stuff are
>pretty bad. Is there anything better for removing
>toner? Is this an artifact of the Samsung toner?
>I've seen youtube videos of people wiping toner off
>with a lacquer soaked paper towel.
>That doesn't work at all for my boards.
>

I've started using 1000 grit sandpaper. Works surprisingly well.

Don't sand too much, though. Seems to help a bit with electroless tin
plating.

Harvey

>
>
>
>------------------------------------
>
>Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

On Fri, 28 Jan 2011 23:03:12 -0500, you wrote:

>Hi Craig,
>
>I'm using aceton and it's working fine. Did you try it?
>
>JM
>

Try acetone in a shallow pan with just enough to cover
the board. It strips the toner in seconds. I had been
wiping for years and recently tried the pan; no more
wiping for me.

Keith Bowers WB4LSJ- Thomasville, NC

On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 9:12 PM, <kabowers@...> wrote:

> Try acetone in a shallow pan with just enough to cover
> the board. It strips the toner in seconds. I had been
> wiping for years and recently tried the pan; no more
> wiping for me.

Just curious, how is that better than wiping with a paper towel? Don't
you use more solvent that way and end up with a dirty pan?

I use MEK (that's what I happen to have on hand) and a paper towel.
The first pass gets off most of the toner in seconds, and a second
pass cleans the board totally.

Xylene in goofoff was the only thing that removes Samsung toner that I have
ever seen to work, but it works really well. A couple drops and a little
rubbing and the toner comes off in no time.

On 2011-01-28 9:28 PM, "Jan Kok" <jan.kok.5y@...> wrote:
> On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 9:12 PM, <kabowers@...> wrote:
>> Try acetone in a shallow pan with just enough to cover
>> the board. It strips the toner in seconds. I had been
>> wiping for years and recently tried the pan; no more
>> wiping for me.
>
> Just curious, how is that better than wiping with a paper towel? Don't
> you use more solvent that way and end up with a dirty pan?
>
> I use MEK (that's what I happen to have on hand) and a paper towel.
> The first pass gets off most of the toner in seconds, and a second
> pass cleans the board totally.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Fri, 28 Jan 2011 21:28:18 -0700, you wrote:

>On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 9:12 PM, <kabowers@...> wrote:
>> Try acetone in a shallow pan with just enough to cover
>> the board. It strips the toner in seconds. I had been
>> wiping for years and recently tried the pan; no more
>> wiping for me.
>
>Just curious, how is that better than wiping with a paper towel? Don't
>you use more solvent that way and end up with a dirty pan?
>
>I use MEK (that's what I happen to have on hand) and a paper towel.
>The first pass gets off most of the toner in seconds, and a second
>pass cleans the board totally.
>
>
>------------------------------------
>

I have trays that almost exactly fit my normal board sizes (the black
ones from frozen dinners) and only use enough solvent to cover the
board, then dispose of the leftovers. I haven't tried placing the board
face down yet. This uses about the same amount of solvent than I
previously used with paper towels. As a plus I don't end up with
the paper towels stinking up the place with highly flammable solvent vapors.

Keith Bowers WB4LSJ- Thomasville, NC

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Jan Kok <jan.kok.5y@...> wrote:

>
> On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 9:12 PM, <kabowers@...> wrote:
> > Try acetone in a shallow pan with just enough to cover
> > the board. It strips the toner in seconds. I had been
> > wiping for years and recently tried the pan; no more
> > wiping for me.
>
> Just curious, how is that better than wiping with a paper towel? Don't
> you use more solvent that way and end up with a dirty pan?
>
> I use MEK (that's what I happen to have on hand) and a paper towel.
> The first pass gets off most of the toner in seconds, and a second
> pass cleans the board totally.

Are you using a recent vintage samsung with samsung toner?
I'd guess you have an HP. FWIW to the other responders I
tried acetone before trying MEK.

Xylene in goofoff I have not heard of. What is that?

On Sat, 29 Jan 2011 16:47:47 -0000, you wrote:

>
>
>--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Jan Kok <jan.kok.5y@...> wrote:
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 9:12 PM, <kabowers@...> wrote:
>> > Try acetone in a shallow pan with just enough to cover
>> > the board. It strips the toner in seconds. I had been
>> > wiping for years and recently tried the pan; no more
>> > wiping for me.
>>
>> Just curious, how is that better than wiping with a paper towel? Don't
>> you use more solvent that way and end up with a dirty pan?
>>
>> I use MEK (that's what I happen to have on hand) and a paper towel.
>> The first pass gets off most of the toner in seconds, and a second
>> pass cleans the board totally.
>
>Are you using a recent vintage samsung with samsung toner?
>I'd guess you have an HP. FWIW to the other responders I
>tried acetone before trying MEK.
>
>Xylene in goofoff I have not heard of. What is that?
>
>
>

I am using an HP.

Keith Bowers WB4LSJ- Thomasville, NC

I use a cleaner called Print Knot by GC that cuts it right off.





From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of skatefriday
Sent: Friday, January 28, 2011 6:58 PM
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Problem removing toner






I have a Samsung copier I'm using for PCB
toner transfers and the toner seems to adhere
very. very well to the copper.

Using lacquer thinner I have to scrub vigorously
for what seems like forever with a toothbrush to
get it off. And the fumes from that stuff are
pretty bad. Is there anything better for removing
toner? Is this an artifact of the Samsung toner?
I've seen youtube videos of people wiping toner off
with a lacquer soaked paper towel.
That doesn't work at all for my boards.





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Goofoff is a "household" cleaner to remove gunk, residues, etc... but one of
the ingredients is Xylene, and it happens to be an amazing solvent for
removing Toner. Look for it in the solvent or cleaning section of Home
Depot.

On Sat, Jan 29, 2011 at 10:02 AM, Gary LaForce <glaforce@...>wrote:

>
>
> I use a cleaner called Print Knot by GC that cuts it right off.
>
> From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com <Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:
> Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com <Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com>]
> On Behalf Of skatefriday
> Sent: Friday, January 28, 2011 6:58 PM
> To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com <Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Problem removing toner
>
>
> I have a Samsung copier I'm using for PCB
> toner transfers and the toner seems to adhere
> very. very well to the copper.
>
> Using lacquer thinner I have to scrub vigorously
> for what seems like forever with a toothbrush to
> get it off. And the fumes from that stuff are
> pretty bad. Is there anything better for removing
> toner? Is this an artifact of the Samsung toner?
> I've seen youtube videos of people wiping toner off
> with a lacquer soaked paper towel.
> That doesn't work at all for my boards.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> Are you using a recent vintage samsung with samsung toner?
> I'd guess you have an HP.

Yup, I have an HP.

It sounds like Samsung uses a different toner formula. Have you
campared how the toner transfer process works for the Samsung printers
compared to HP or others?

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Jan Kok <jan.kok.5y@...> wrote:

>
> > Are you using a recent vintage samsung with samsung toner?
> > I'd guess you have an HP.
>
> Yup, I have an HP.
>
> It sounds like Samsung uses a different toner formula. Have you
> campared how the toner transfer process works for the Samsung printers
> compared to HP or others?

I don't have access to any other printers and am
new to the hobby. However, I've found that Samsung
toner on Staples glossy photo paper transfers
quite well.

I tried a glossy magazine and the toner spread enough
to short some of my traces. I was using the highest
heat setting on my iron. I have yet to try a lower
heat with magazine paper to see if it won't spread.
But I get no spread on the same heat setting with
the photo paper. Perhaps it's because the thicker
photo paper transfers heat more slowly?

The photo paper however leaves a thin film of gunk
on the board that is hard to remove. But then again
so is the Samsung toner. :-)

>

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "skatefriday" <craigm543@...> wrote:

>
>
>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Jan Kok <jan.kok.5y@> wrote:
> >
> > > Are you using a recent vintage samsung with samsung toner?
> > > I'd guess you have an HP.
> >
> > Yup, I have an HP.
> >
> > It sounds like Samsung uses a different toner formula. Have you
> > campared how the toner transfer process works for the Samsung printers
> > compared to HP or others?
>
> I don't have access to any other printers and am
> new to the hobby. However, I've found that Samsung
> toner on Staples glossy photo paper transfers
> quite well.
>
> I tried a glossy magazine and the toner spread enough
> to short some of my traces. I was using the highest
> heat setting on my iron. I have yet to try a lower
> heat with magazine paper to see if it won't spread.
> But I get no spread on the same heat setting with
> the photo paper. Perhaps it's because the thicker
> photo paper transfers heat more slowly?
>
> The photo paper however leaves a thin film of gunk
> on the board that is hard to remove. But then again
> so is the Samsung toner. :-)
>

I use a Samsung printer (ML-1665) and went through the same process with the same results over the past couple months. I settled on glossy Staples paper since magazines gave the problems you mentioned, and I tried various heat levels and durations of applying the iron. Though the gummy paper remnants (of the gloss coating I think) are difficult to fully remove from tight areas. (I tried pulling off the gumminess with packing tape as suggested by someone on this group, which helps but doesn't entirely remove it).

I soaked the etched board for up to 1/2 hour in acetone (full strength, off the shelf from Home Depot) and it did pretty much nothing. I use sandpaper/steel wool to actually remove the toner.

My results have been pretty good, by my novice standards. A couple times I have just left much of the toner where I didn't need to solder, kind of ugly, since it was so hard to remove.

Maybe I will try the Goofoff/Xylene as someone suggested.

I'm wondering, and maybe it has been said while I wasn't looking, if this Samsung toner sticks so well, is there any noticeable difference/improvement in either the general quality/precision of the etched results, or just in the reliability of the process?

When I was doing through-hole boards (and I've only done maybe 10 of any kind, ever) I would leave the toner on the traces as a kind of conformal coating, but once you discover the miracle of hot-plate SMD, there's no going back to all that hand drilling.

PG

On 31/01/2011, at 5:05 AM, edllew wrote:

> I use a Samsung printer (ML-1665) and went through the same process with the same results over the past couple months. I settled on glossy Staples paper since magazines gave the problems you mentioned, and I tried various heat levels and durations of applying the iron. Though the gummy paper remnants (of the gloss coating I think) are difficult to fully remove from tight areas. (I tried pulling off the gumminess with packing tape as suggested by someone on this group, which helps but doesn't entirely remove it).
>
> I soaked the etched board for up to 1/2 hour in acetone (full strength, off the shelf from Home Depot) and it did pretty much nothing. I use sandpaper/steel wool to actually remove the toner.
>
> My results have been pretty good, by my novice standards. A couple times I have just left much of the toner where I didn't need to solder, kind of ugly, since it was so hard to remove.
>
> Maybe I will try the Goofoff/Xylene as someone suggested.
>
>

I used to use the Samsung, staples photopaper combination, and it gave
wonderful results, but I found it too unreliable when it chose not to
transfer. I modified an inkjet printer, and I can now do 5-8mil traces
without soaking anything in water.

On Sun, Jan 30, 2011 at 1:36 PM, Piers Goodhew <piers@...> wrote:

> I'm wondering, and maybe it has been said while I wasn't looking, if this
> Samsung toner sticks so well, is there any noticeable difference/improvement
> in either the general quality/precision of the etched results, or just in
> the reliability of the process?
>
> When I was doing through-hole boards (and I've only done maybe 10 of any
> kind, ever) I would leave the toner on the traces as a kind of conformal
> coating, but once you discover the miracle of hot-plate SMD, there's no
> going back to all that hand drilling.
>
> PG
>
> On 31/01/2011, at 5:05 AM, edllew wrote:
>
> > I use a Samsung printer (ML-1665) and went through the same process with
> the same results over the past couple months. I settled on glossy Staples
> paper since magazines gave the problems you mentioned, and I tried various
> heat levels and durations of applying the iron. Though the gummy paper
> remnants (of the gloss coating I think) are difficult to fully remove from
> tight areas. (I tried pulling off the gumminess with packing tape as
> suggested by someone on this group, which helps but doesn't entirely remove
> it).
> >
> > I soaked the etched board for up to 1/2 hour in acetone (full strength,
> off the shelf from Home Depot) and it did pretty much nothing. I use
> sandpaper/steel wool to actually remove the toner.
> >
> > My results have been pretty good, by my novice standards. A couple times
> I have just left much of the toner where I didn't need to solder, kind of
> ugly, since it was so hard to remove.
> >
> > Maybe I will try the Goofoff/Xylene as someone suggested.
> >
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I went in search of some MEK today as acetone
to the Samsung toner is pretty much about as
useful as water.

Home Depot, Lowes, and Orchard Supply Hardware
all no longer carry MEK. Orchard Supply still
has the shelf tags, but HD and Lowe's have removed
all traces of the stuff. The guy at Lowes
said they pulled it all off the shelves about
4 months ago.

I'm in California. Has the stuff been banned here?

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Ryan Bray <rbray89@...> wrote:
>
> Goofoff is a "household" cleaner to remove gunk, residues, etc... but one of
> the ingredients is Xylene, and it happens to be an amazing solvent for
> removing Toner. Look for it in the solvent or cleaning section of Home
> Depot.
>
> On Sat, Jan 29, 2011 at 10:02 AM, Gary LaForce <glaforce@...>wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > I use a cleaner called Print Knot by GC that cuts it right off.
> >
> > From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com <Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:
> > Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com <Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com>]
> > On Behalf Of skatefriday
> > Sent: Friday, January 28, 2011 6:58 PM
> > To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com <Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Problem removing toner
> >
> >
> > I have a Samsung copier I'm using for PCB
> > toner transfers and the toner seems to adhere
> > very. very well to the copper.
> >
> > Using lacquer thinner I have to scrub vigorously
> > for what seems like forever with a toothbrush to
> > get it off. And the fumes from that stuff are
> > pretty bad. Is there anything better for removing
> > toner? Is this an artifact of the Samsung toner?
> > I've seen youtube videos of people wiping toner off
> > with a lacquer soaked paper towel.
> > That doesn't work at all for my boards.
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Search for butanone on ebay.com, 4 listings returned.
Banned because it's good for making bombs?

It's used as PVC pipe cement in the UK

Malcolm

I don't suffer from insanity I enjoy it!

--- On Sun, 1/30/11, skatefriday <craigm543@...> wrote:

From: skatefriday <craigm543@...>
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] MEK no longer for sale in California? (was: Re: Problem removing toner)
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, January 30, 2011, 11:25 PM



















I went in search of some MEK today as acetone

to the Samsung toner is pretty much about as

useful as water.



Home Depot, Lowes, and Orchard Supply Hardware

all no longer carry MEK. Orchard Supply still

has the shelf tags, but HD and Lowe's have removed

all traces of the stuff. The guy at Lowes

said they pulled it all off the shelves about

4 months ago.



I'm in California. Has the stuff been banned here?



--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Ryan Bray <rbray89@...> wrote:

>

> Goofoff is a "household" cleaner to remove gunk, residues, etc... but one of

> the ingredients is Xylene, and it happens to be an amazing solvent for

> removing Toner. Look for it in the solvent or cleaning section of Home

> Depot.

>

> On Sat, Jan 29, 2011 at 10:02 AM, Gary LaForce <glaforce@...>wrote:

>

> >

> >

> > I use a cleaner called Print Knot by GC that cuts it right off.

> >

> > From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com <Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:

> > Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com <Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com>]

> > On Behalf Of skatefriday

> > Sent: Friday, January 28, 2011 6:58 PM

> > To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com <Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com>

> > Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Problem removing toner

> >

> >

> > I have a Samsung copier I'm using for PCB

> > toner transfers and the toner seems to adhere

> > very. very well to the copper.

> >

> > Using lacquer thinner I have to scrub vigorously

> > for what seems like forever with a toothbrush to

> > get it off. And the fumes from that stuff are

> > pretty bad. Is there anything better for removing

> > toner? Is this an artifact of the Samsung toner?

> > I've seen youtube videos of people wiping toner off

> > with a lacquer soaked paper towel.

> > That doesn't work at all for my boards.

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> >

> >

> >

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

























[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Still listed here

http://www.wmbarr.com/product.aspx?catid=21&prodid=103

I think I'm going to call KleenStrip on Monday.

Is Methyl Ethyl Ketone Peroxide the reason it's
being phased out or is it the inhalation effects.

My reasearch seems to indicate that Xylene is
much worse healthwise and it is apparently still available
in the form of Goofoff which I still see on the
shelves. Go figure.

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Malcolm Parker-Lisberg <mparkerlisberg@...> wrote:
>
> Search for butanone on ebay.com, 4 listings returned.
> Banned because it's good for making bombs?
>
> It's used as PVC pipe cement in the UK
>
> Malcolm
>
> I don't suffer from insanity I enjoy it!
>
> --- On Sun, 1/30/11, skatefriday <craigm543@...> wrote:
>
> From: skatefriday <craigm543@...>
> Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] MEK no longer for sale in California? (was: Re: Problem removing toner)
> To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Sunday, January 30, 2011, 11:25 PM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Â
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I went in search of some MEK today as acetone
>
> to the Samsung toner is pretty much about as
>
> useful as water.
>
>
>
> Home Depot, Lowes, and Orchard Supply Hardware
>
> all no longer carry MEK. Orchard Supply still
>
> has the shelf tags, but HD and Lowe's have removed
>
> all traces of the stuff. The guy at Lowes
>
> said they pulled it all off the shelves about
>
> 4 months ago.
>
>
>
> I'm in California. Has the stuff been banned here?
>
>
>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Ryan Bray <rbray89@> wrote:
>
> >
>
> > Goofoff is a "household" cleaner to remove gunk, residues, etc... but one of
>
> > the ingredients is Xylene, and it happens to be an amazing solvent for
>
> > removing Toner. Look for it in the solvent or cleaning section of Home
>
> > Depot.
>
> >
>
> > On Sat, Jan 29, 2011 at 10:02 AM, Gary LaForce <glaforce@>wrote:
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > > I use a cleaner called Print Knot by GC that cuts it right off.
>
> > >
>
> > > From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com <Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:
>
> > > Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com <Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com>]
>
> > > On Behalf Of skatefriday
>
> > > Sent: Friday, January 28, 2011 6:58 PM
>
> > > To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com <Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com>
>
> > > Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Problem removing toner
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > > I have a Samsung copier I'm using for PCB
>
> > > toner transfers and the toner seems to adhere
>
> > > very. very well to the copper.
>
> > >
>
> > > Using lacquer thinner I have to scrub vigorously
>
> > > for what seems like forever with a toothbrush to
>
> > > get it off. And the fumes from that stuff are
>
> > > pretty bad. Is there anything better for removing
>
> > > toner? Is this an artifact of the Samsung toner?
>
> > > I've seen youtube videos of people wiping toner off
>
> > > with a lacquer soaked paper towel.
>
> > > That doesn't work at all for my boards.
>
> > >
>
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

I've been using lacquer thinner since forever! for removing the toner resist from my pcbs. Although ALL lacquer paint is banned from california, lacquer THINNER is sold everywhere: homedepot, lowes, automotive paint stores. Use a clean rag and moisten it with lacquer thinner, then scrup/swipe the toner. It melts! away. Use clean portion of rag to wipe again checking for black. When ALL black is gone, rag doesn't turn black, pcb should be clean. I use latex gloves(nitril works too) because lacquer thinner drys out the skin VERY quickly. Also, do this OUTSIDE as the fumes will kill U AND are EXTREMELY flammable. Leave rag outside so smell can evaporate before U puting in trash, or save for next pcb run if enough area is still clean. Use 220 grit sand paper to shine up coppper before soldering. Happy etching!!

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "skatefriday" <craigm543@...> wrote:
>
>
> Still listed here
>
> http://www.wmbarr.com/product.aspx?catid=21&prodid=103
>
> I think I'm going to call KleenStrip on Monday.
>
> Is Methyl Ethyl Ketone Peroxide the reason it's
> being phased out or is it the inhalation effects.
>
> My reasearch seems to indicate that Xylene is
> much worse healthwise and it is apparently still available
> in the form of Goofoff which I still see on the
> shelves. Go figure.
>
>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Malcolm Parker-Lisberg <mparkerlisberg@> wrote:
> >
> > Search for butanone on ebay.com, 4 listings returned.
> > Banned because it's good for making bombs?
> >
> > It's used as PVC pipe cement in the UK
> >
> > Malcolm
> >
> > I don't suffer from insanity I enjoy it!
> >
> > --- On Sun, 1/30/11, skatefriday <craigm543@> wrote:
> >
> > From: skatefriday <craigm543@>
> > Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] MEK no longer for sale in California? (was: Re: Problem removing toner)
> > To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> > Date: Sunday, January 30, 2011, 11:25 PM
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Â
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I went in search of some MEK today as acetone
> >
> > to the Samsung toner is pretty much about as
> >
> > useful as water.
> >
> >
> >
> > Home Depot, Lowes, and Orchard Supply Hardware
> >
> > all no longer carry MEK. Orchard Supply still
> >
> > has the shelf tags, but HD and Lowe's have removed
> >
> > all traces of the stuff. The guy at Lowes
> >
> > said they pulled it all off the shelves about
> >
> > 4 months ago.
> >
> >
> >
> > I'm in California. Has the stuff been banned here?
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Ryan Bray <rbray89@> wrote:
> >
> > >
> >
> > > Goofoff is a "household" cleaner to remove gunk, residues, etc... but one of
> >
> > > the ingredients is Xylene, and it happens to be an amazing solvent for
> >
> > > removing Toner. Look for it in the solvent or cleaning section of Home
> >
> > > Depot.
> >
> > >
> >
> > > On Sat, Jan 29, 2011 at 10:02 AM, Gary LaForce <glaforce@>wrote:
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > I use a cleaner called Print Knot by GC that cuts it right off.
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com <Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:
> >
> > > > Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com <Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com>]
> >
> > > > On Behalf Of skatefriday
> >
> > > > Sent: Friday, January 28, 2011 6:58 PM
> >
> > > > To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com <Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com>
> >
> > > > Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Problem removing toner
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > I have a Samsung copier I'm using for PCB
> >
> > > > toner transfers and the toner seems to adhere
> >
> > > > very. very well to the copper.
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > Using lacquer thinner I have to scrub vigorously
> >
> > > > for what seems like forever with a toothbrush to
> >
> > > > get it off. And the fumes from that stuff are
> >
> > > > pretty bad. Is there anything better for removing
> >
> > > > toner? Is this an artifact of the Samsung toner?
> >
> > > > I've seen youtube videos of people wiping toner off
> >
> > > > with a lacquer soaked paper towel.
> >
> > > > That doesn't work at all for my boards.
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>

I was over at OSH in Sunnyvale Saturday and they had both MEK and Acetone.

I worry that its just a matter of time before both of these are pulled from public sale as they are precursers for making explosives and or meth. There is a huge DEA list of chemicals that have been pulled to try and stop the drug manufacturing trade. Anything with ether, iodine, phosporus and a host of others chemicals have been pulled. All this does is screw the public,the drug makers find other methods and sources. One has to wonder if OSH has to notify the FBI or DEA everytime one buys some Acetone etc.

I have never had a problem removing Brother toner with Acetone but I guess Samsung toner must be a different plastic. If the plastic in the toner is polyethylene or a polyamide, they are mostly immune to most solvents, and its going to be mechanical removal at best.

Craig

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "skatefriday" <craigm543@...> wrote:
>
>
> I went in search of some MEK today as acetone
> to the Samsung toner is pretty much about as
> useful as water.
>
> Home Depot, Lowes, and Orchard Supply Hardware
> all no longer carry MEK. Orchard Supply still
> has the shelf tags, but HD and Lowe's have removed
> all traces of the stuff. The guy at Lowes
> said they pulled it all off the shelves about
> 4 months ago.
>
> I'm in California. Has the stuff been banned here?
>
>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Ryan Bray <rbray89@> wrote:
> >
> > Goofoff is a "household" cleaner to remove gunk, residues, etc... but one of
> > the ingredients is Xylene, and it happens to be an amazing solvent for
> > removing Toner. Look for it in the solvent or cleaning section of Home
> > Depot.
> >
> > On Sat, Jan 29, 2011 at 10:02 AM, Gary LaForce <glaforce@>wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > I use a cleaner called Print Knot by GC that cuts it right off.
> > >
> > > From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com <Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:
> > > Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com <Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com>]
> > > On Behalf Of skatefriday
> > > Sent: Friday, January 28, 2011 6:58 PM
> > > To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com <Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Problem removing toner
> > >
> > >
> > > I have a Samsung copier I'm using for PCB
> > > toner transfers and the toner seems to adhere
> > > very. very well to the copper.
> > >
> > > Using lacquer thinner I have to scrub vigorously
> > > for what seems like forever with a toothbrush to
> > > get it off. And the fumes from that stuff are
> > > pretty bad. Is there anything better for removing
> > > toner? Is this an artifact of the Samsung toner?
> > > I've seen youtube videos of people wiping toner off
> > > with a lacquer soaked paper towel.
> > > That doesn't work at all for my boards.
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>

Called WMBarr this morning. MEK, along with
xylene are no longer available in California as
of Dec 31, 2009.

Goofoff, according to it's MSDS, has changed it's
formula and no longer is 85% xylene.

What's a good hobbyist to do?

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "skatefriday" <craigm543@...> wrote:
>
>
> Still listed here
>
> http://www.wmbarr.com/product.aspx?catid=21&prodid=103
>
> I think I'm going to call KleenStrip on Monday.
>
> Is Methyl Ethyl Ketone Peroxide the reason it's
> being phased out or is it the inhalation effects.
>
> My reasearch seems to indicate that Xylene is
> much worse healthwise and it is apparently still available
> in the form of Goofoff which I still see on the
> shelves. Go figure.
>
>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Malcolm Parker-Lisberg <mparkerlisberg@> wrote:
> >
> > Search for butanone on ebay.com, 4 listings returned.
> > Banned because it's good for making bombs?
> >
> > It's used as PVC pipe cement in the UK
> >
> > Malcolm
> >
> > I don't suffer from insanity I enjoy it!
> >
> > --- On Sun, 1/30/11, skatefriday <craigm543@> wrote:
> >
> > From: skatefriday <craigm543@>
> > Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] MEK no longer for sale in California? (was: Re: Problem removing toner)
> > To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> > Date: Sunday, January 30, 2011, 11:25 PM
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Â
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I went in search of some MEK today as acetone
> >
> > to the Samsung toner is pretty much about as
> >
> > useful as water.
> >
> >
> >
> > Home Depot, Lowes, and Orchard Supply Hardware
> >
> > all no longer carry MEK. Orchard Supply still
> >
> > has the shelf tags, but HD and Lowe's have removed
> >
> > all traces of the stuff. The guy at Lowes
> >
> > said they pulled it all off the shelves about
> >
> > 4 months ago.
> >
> >
> >
> > I'm in California. Has the stuff been banned here?
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Ryan Bray <rbray89@> wrote:
> >
> > >
> >
> > > Goofoff is a "household" cleaner to remove gunk, residues, etc... but one of
> >
> > > the ingredients is Xylene, and it happens to be an amazing solvent for
> >
> > > removing Toner. Look for it in the solvent or cleaning section of Home
> >
> > > Depot.
> >
> > >
> >
> > > On Sat, Jan 29, 2011 at 10:02 AM, Gary LaForce <glaforce@>wrote:
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > I use a cleaner called Print Knot by GC that cuts it right off.
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com <Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:
> >
> > > > Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com <Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com>]
> >
> > > > On Behalf Of skatefriday
> >
> > > > Sent: Friday, January 28, 2011 6:58 PM
> >
> > > > To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com <Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com>
> >
> > > > Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Problem removing toner
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > I have a Samsung copier I'm using for PCB
> >
> > > > toner transfers and the toner seems to adhere
> >
> > > > very. very well to the copper.
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > Using lacquer thinner I have to scrub vigorously
> >
> > > > for what seems like forever with a toothbrush to
> >
> > > > get it off. And the fumes from that stuff are
> >
> > > > pretty bad. Is there anything better for removing
> >
> > > > toner? Is this an artifact of the Samsung toner?
> >
> > > > I've seen youtube videos of people wiping toner off
> >
> > > > with a lacquer soaked paper towel.
> >
> > > > That doesn't work at all for my boards.
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>

As a matter of interest, what happens if you leave the toner there? Does it prevent soldering?

I'm wondering if some of the toner removal problems might not be from
too much heat. When I was doing direct laser printing - laser
printing directly on copper-clad, I was "cooking" it in a toaster
over to fuse the toner to the board. If it got too hot it was
extremely difficult to remove the toner from the board after etching
using acetone, but if it was cooked less, it was quite easy.

Mark

I’ve been following this thread for a while, now…



I use the 3M Scotch-Brite. The Red is better than the Green. It stands up
longer before breaking down. Scotch-Brite takes a bit of work to remove the
toner, but is leaves the remaining copper bright and shiny – perfect for
tinning or soldering. Using Scotch-Brite is a bit more environmental
friendly, but it does require work, to be sure. In addition, it doesn’t
smell like so many of the available chemicals do.





From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of skatefriday
Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 12:19 PM
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Confirmed: MEK no longer for sale in California.






Called WMBarr this morning. MEK, along with
xylene are no longer available in California as
of Dec 31, 2009.

Goofoff, according to it's MSDS, has changed it's
formula and no longer is 85% xylene.

What's a good hobbyist to do?

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com> , "skatefriday" <craigm543@...>
wrote:

>
>
> Still listed here
>
> http://www.wmbarr.com/product.aspx?catid=21

<http://www.wmbarr.com/product.aspx?catid=21&prodid=103> &prodid=103

>
> I think I'm going to call KleenStrip on Monday.
>
> Is Methyl Ethyl Ketone Peroxide the reason it's
> being phased out or is it the inhalation effects.
>
> My reasearch seems to indicate that Xylene is
> much worse healthwise and it is apparently still available
> in the form of Goofoff which I still see on the
> shelves. Go figure.
>
>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com

<mailto:Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com> , Malcolm Parker-Lisberg
<mparkerlisberg@> wrote:

> >
> > Search for butanone on ebay.com, 4 listings returned.
> > Banned because it's good for making bombs?
> >
> > It's used as PVC pipe cement in the UK
> >
> > Malcolm
> >
> > I don't suffer from insanity I enjoy it!
> >
> > --- On Sun, 1/30/11, skatefriday <craigm543@> wrote:
> >
> > From: skatefriday <craigm543@>
> > Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] MEK no longer for sale in California? (was: Re:

Problem removing toner)

> > To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com

<mailto:Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com>

> > Date: Sunday, January 30, 2011, 11:25 PM
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Â
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I went in search of some MEK today as acetone
> >
> > to the Samsung toner is pretty much about as
> >
> > useful as water.
> >
> >
> >
> > Home Depot, Lowes, and Orchard Supply Hardware
> >
> > all no longer carry MEK. Orchard Supply still
> >
> > has the shelf tags, but HD and Lowe's have removed
> >
> > all traces of the stuff. The guy at Lowes
> >
> > said they pulled it all off the shelves about
> >
> > 4 months ago.
> >
> >
> >
> > I'm in California. Has the stuff been banned here?
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com

<mailto:Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com> , Ryan Bray <rbray89@> wrote:

> >
> > >
> >
> > > Goofoff is a "household" cleaner to remove gunk, residues, etc... but

one of

> >
> > > the ingredients is Xylene, and it happens to be an amazing solvent for
> >
> > > removing Toner. Look for it in the solvent or cleaning section of Home
> >
> > > Depot.
> >
> > >
> >
> > > On Sat, Jan 29, 2011 at 10:02 AM, Gary LaForce <glaforce@>wrote:
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > I use a cleaner called Print Knot by GC that cuts it right off.
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com

<mailto:Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com>
<Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:

> >
> > > > Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com

<mailto:Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com> <Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com>]

> >
> > > > On Behalf Of skatefriday
> >
> > > > Sent: Friday, January 28, 2011 6:58 PM
> >
> > > > To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com

<mailto:Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com> <Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com>

> >
> > > > Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Problem removing toner
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > I have a Samsung copier I'm using for PCB
> >
> > > > toner transfers and the toner seems to adhere
> >
> > > > very. very well to the copper.
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > Using lacquer thinner I have to scrub vigorously
> >
> > > > for what seems like forever with a toothbrush to
> >
> > > > get it off. And the fumes from that stuff are
> >
> > > > pretty bad. Is there anything better for removing
> >
> > > > toner? Is this an artifact of the Samsung toner?
> >
> > > > I've seen youtube videos of people wiping toner off
> >
> > > > with a lacquer soaked paper towel.
> >
> > > > That doesn't work at all for my boards.
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>

_____

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 10.0.1204 / Virus Database: 1435/3414 - Release Date: 01/31/11

_____

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 10.0.1204 / Virus Database: 1435/3414 - Release Date: 01/31/11



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On 31/01/2011 16:54, toneboy22 wrote:

> I've been using lacquer thinner since forever! for removing the toner resist from my pcbs. Although ALL lacquer paint is banned from california, lacquer THINNER is sold everywhere: homedepot, lowes, automotive paint stores. Use a clean rag and moisten it with lacquer thinner, then scrup/swipe the toner. It melts! away. Use clean portion of rag to wipe again checking for black. When ALL black is gone, rag doesn't turn black, pcb should be clean. I use latex gloves(nitril works too) because lacquer thinner drys out the skin VERY quickly. Also, do this OUTSIDE as the fumes will kill U AND are EXTREMELY flammable. Leave rag outside so smell can evaporate before U puting in trash, or save for next pcb run if enough area is still clean. Use 220 grit sand paper to shine up coppper before soldering. Happy etching!!

Lacquer thinners is xylene, it's quite safe.

Leon
--
Leon Heller
G1HSM

xylene is quite safe is an overstatement of the truth. Xylene is highly flamable, it is also toxic, accidental or intentional inhalation of vapors can cause liver and kidney damage along with depression and damage to the nervous system, not to mention irritation of lung tissues leading to pneumococsis. It should be used with care to prevent contact with eyes, nose, or throat either directly or by vapors. Use in a well ventilated space. Storage should be in cool dark area where vapors are prevented from migration to water heaters, stoves, open fireplaces etc. This applies to all organic solvents acetone, lacquer thinner, xylene, methyl ethyl ketone MEK , carbosol.

Be careful and observe these precautions.
Be safe .. have fun.
Bob R.






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

According to the KleenStrip MSDS for lacquer thinner
there is no xylene in it.

Hazardous Components
1. Methanol {Methyl alcohol; Carbinol; Wood
alcohol} 67-56-1 10.0 -30.0 %
2. Toluene {Benzene, Methyl-; Toluol} 108-88-3 5.0 -60.0 %
3. Acetone 67-64-1 7.0 -13.0 %
4. Methyl ethyl ketone {MEK; 2-Butanone} 78-93-3 1.0 -15.0 %
Ethanol, 2-Butoxy- {Ethylene glycol n-butyl
ether, (a glycol ether)}
5. 111-76-2 1.0 -5.0 %
6. Acetic acid, Ethyl ester {Ethyl acetate} 141-78-6 0.5 -15.0 %
Hexane, Light aliphatic naptha {Light aliphatic
solvent naphtha (petroleum)}
7. 64742-89-8 1.0 -39.0 %

http://www.wmbarr.com/ProductFiles/Lacquer%20Thinner%20%281605.45%29%205-21-09.pdf

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Leon Heller <leon355@...> wrote:
>
> On 31/01/2011 16:54, toneboy22 wrote:
> > I've been using lacquer thinner since forever! for removing the toner resist from my pcbs. Although ALL lacquer paint is banned from california, lacquer THINNER is sold everywhere: homedepot, lowes, automotive paint stores. Use a clean rag and moisten it with lacquer thinner, then scrup/swipe the toner. It melts! away. Use clean portion of rag to wipe again checking for black. When ALL black is gone, rag doesn't turn black, pcb should be clean. I use latex gloves(nitril works too) because lacquer thinner drys out the skin VERY quickly. Also, do this OUTSIDE as the fumes will kill U AND are EXTREMELY flammable. Leave rag outside so smell can evaporate before U puting in trash, or save for next pcb run if enough area is still clean. Use 220 grit sand paper to shine up coppper before soldering. Happy etching!!
>
> Lacquer thinners is xylene, it's quite safe.

> Leon
> --
> Leon Heller
> G1HSM
>

On 31/01/2011 22:41, skatefriday wrote:

>
> According to the KleenStrip MSDS for lacquer thinner
> there is no xylene in it.

Lacquer thinner in the UK is xylene. I've got a can of the stuff.

Leon
--
Leon Heller
G1HSM

Yes, acetone does not work for Samsung toner (at least
not for late model printers).

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Jean-Marc Spaggiari <Jean-Marc@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Craig,
>
> I'm using aceton and it's working fine. Did you try it?
>
> JM
> Le 28 janv. 2011 22:58, "skatefriday" <craigm543@...> a écrit :
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Mark Lerman <mlerman@...> wrote:

>
>
> I'm wondering if some of the toner removal problems might not be from
> too much heat. When I was doing direct laser printing - laser
> printing directly on copper-clad, I was "cooking" it in a toaster
> over to fuse the toner to the board. If it got too hot it was
> extremely difficult to remove the toner from the board after etching
> using acetone, but if it was cooked less, it was quite easy.
>
> Mark
>

Mark,

Are you still doing "direct laser printing"? If so, how is it working or not working for you? Sorry for the hijack people. If you have an update elsewhere in this forum please link. Thank you.

I am using a Dell_1610 laserjet with the TTP (toner transfer paper) from Pulsar. Great results removing toner with Acetone on paper towel. The Xylene was too powerful for me, it made it like ink water. Also had to go out to the garage to use it.

Rick

>
> Mark,
>
> Are you still doing "direct laser printing"? If so, how is it working or not working for you? Sorry for the hijack people. If you have an update elsewhere in this forum please link. Thank you.
>
> I am using a Dell_1610 laserjet with the TTP (toner transfer paper) from Pulsar. Great results removing toner with Acetone on paper towel. The Xylene was too powerful for me, it made it like ink water. Also had to go out to the garage to use it.
>
> Rick
>

OOps! I meant Dell_1710 Laser Printer.

I'm with Carl on this one -- this doesn't seem to me to be a case of "Better Living through Chemistry".

We use 000 steel wool for everything -- cleaning/texturing the board before applying etch mask, as well as for removing the mask (in our case, spraypaint) afterwards.

For a little bit of elbow grease, I'm very content to forego the chemicals. I'd just as soon dedicate my liver and kidneys to the metabolization of ethyl alcohol.

-e

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Carl W. Livingston" <microcarl@...> wrote:
>
> I've been following this thread for a while, now…
>
>
>
> I use the 3M Scotch-Brite. The Red is better than the Green. It stands up
> longer before breaking down. Scotch-Brite takes a bit of work to remove the
> toner, but is leaves the remaining copper bright and shiny – perfect for
> tinning or soldering. Using Scotch-Brite is a bit more environmental
> friendly, but it does require work, to be sure. In addition, it doesn't
> smell like so many of the available chemicals do.