Homebrew PCBs

Just tried my hand at toner transfer. What is the trick to remove the toner from the board once etched? I'm having a heck of a time trying to get it off.

On Wed, 11 Aug 2010, AA9GG wrote:

> Just tried my hand at toner transfer. What is the trick to remove the 
> toner from the board once etched? I'm having a heck of a time trying to 
> get it off.

Acetone.

-- 
David Griffith
dgriffi@...

A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?

Lacquer thinners works way better than acetone

David Griffith wrote:

>
> On Wed, 11 Aug 2010, AA9GG wrote:
>
> > Just tried my hand at toner transfer. What is the trick to remove the
> > toner from the board once etched? I'm having a heck of a time trying to
> > get it off.
>
> Acetone.
>
> -- 
> David Griffith
> dgriffi@... <mailto:dgriffi%40cs.csubak.edu>
>
> A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text.
> Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
> A: Top-posting.
> Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?
>
>

AA9GG pravi:
> Just tried my hand at toner transfer. What is the trick to remove the toner from the board once etched? I'm having a heck of a time trying to get it off.
>
>   
Hmm hard to say.
I use watter.! Pure tap watter!

Of course I steal scrub buds from wife kitchen and scrub board under 
runing watter. (the piece of metal wire woven thing)

Acetone do the job but this method works soo god and doesn't leave black 
mess all the way around.

Slavko.

For me the best is Cleaner for PVC-U, PVC-C and ABS (used before solvent
welding)

 

Chris

From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Slavko Kocjancic
Sent: 11 August 2010 08:09
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] removing toner?

 

  

AA9GG pravi:
> Just tried my hand at toner transfer. What is the trick to remove the
toner from the board once etched? I'm having a heck of a time trying to get
it off.
>
> 
Hmm hard to say.
I use watter.! Pure tap watter!

Of course I steal scrub buds from wife kitchen and scrub board under 
runing watter. (the piece of metal wire woven thing)

Acetone do the job but this method works soo god and doesn't leave black 
mess all the way around.

Slavko.





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On 11/08/2010 06:20, AA9GG wrote:
> Just tried my hand at toner transfer. What is the trick to remove the toner from the board once etched? I'm having a heck of a time trying to get it off.


Rub it with a piece of kitchen towel moistened with cellulose thinners 
(xylene).

Leon
-- 
Leon Heller
G1HSM

On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 11:01:33AM +0100, Leon Heller wrote:
> On 11/08/2010 06:20, AA9GG wrote:
> > Just tried my hand at toner transfer. What is the trick to remove the toner from the board once etched? I'm having a heck of a time trying to get it off.
> 
> 
> Rub it with a piece of kitchen towel moistened with cellulose thinners 
> (xylene).

The way I do it is a bit more work, but it works fine, I just use the 
piece of wet-n-dry paper that I cleaned the board off at the start of 
the process to scrub the toner off. Takes about three or four minutes.

Just scraping it off with an edge, such as the back of a knife, a
steel spatula, or another piece of PCB works for me.

ST

Auto paint thinners works best on a rag  or a dab of 4 stroke mower fuel on a rag if your stuck (a bit smelly)

---- Original Message ----- 
  From: AA9GG 
  To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 3:20 PM
  Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] removing toner?


    
  Just tried my hand at toner transfer. What is the trick to remove the toner from the board once etched? I'm having a heck of a time trying to get it off.



  

  __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5356 (20100810) __________

  The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

  http://www.eset.com





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On 08/10/2010 11:35 PM, Eddie Stassen wrote:
> Lacquer thinners works way better than acetone

I had to look for your answer in the mail you sent, but when I found it, 
I must ask, how can it be better than acetone?

Acetone works so well, you make a shop cloth wet with it, yuo pass it 
ONE TIME and the copper is shiny clean. Heavy duty flux cleaner works as 
well.

For who removes it "mechanically": come on, how can you risk to damage 
small traces on your board, and put several minutes of effort when there 
is a simple alternative like passing a cloth ONE TIME on each side of 
the PCB?

bye
as

Because it takes less seconds to scrape it off mechanically.
It is very brittle and comes off easily.

Believe me someone is always more lazy than you and their method takes
even less time ;-)

ST

On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 5:43 PM, Alessio Sangalli <alesan@...> wrote:

> For who removes it "mechanically": come on, how can you risk to damage
> small traces on your board, and put several minutes of effort when there
> is a simple alternative like passing a cloth ONE TIME on each side of
> the PCB?
>
> bye
> as
>
>

Acetone and Lacquer Thinner work equally well. I use a paper towel wetted 
with either one.

Bob Macklin
K5MYJ
Seattle, Wa.
"Real Radios Glow In The Dark"
----- Original Message ----- 

From: "Alessio Sangalli" <alesan@...>
To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 8:43 AM
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] removing toner?


> On 08/10/2010 11:35 PM, Eddie Stassen wrote:
>> Lacquer thinners works way better than acetone
>
> I had to look for your answer in the mail you sent, but when I found it,
> I must ask, how can it be better than acetone?
>
> Acetone works so well, you make a shop cloth wet with it, yuo pass it
> ONE TIME and the copper is shiny clean. Heavy duty flux cleaner works as
> well.
>
> For who removes it "mechanically": come on, how can you risk to damage
> small traces on your board, and put several minutes of effort when there
> is a simple alternative like passing a cloth ONE TIME on each side of
> the PCB?
>
> bye
> as
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and 
> Photos:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

--- On Wed, 11/8/10, Stefan Trethan <stefan_trethan@...> wrote:
> From: Stefan Trethan <stefan_trethan@...>
> Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] removing toner?
> To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Wednesday, 11 August, 2010, 16:47

> Because it takes less seconds to
> scrape it off mechanically.
> It is very brittle and comes off easily.

Ah, I think I can see the reason for the different methods! When
I do toner transfer with an HP LaserJet 4+, the toner is not
brittle at all, and does not come off easily. I use acetone
(sold in the UK as finger-nail polish remover) and a rag, but
I have to rub quite hard, and it takes some time.

Different toners seem to require different solvents and techniques.

-- 
John Honniball

> > Just tried my hand at toner transfer. What is the trick to remove the
> > toner from the board once etched? I'm having a heck of a time trying to
> > get it off.
>
> Acetone.
>
>
I was not always able to get the green foil off well, even in a acetone
bath, so I stepped up the M.E.K. Toxic stuff, but effective.

Mike


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Alessio Sangalli pravi:
>
> For who removes it "mechanically": come on, how can you risk to damage 
> small traces on your board, and put several minutes of effort when there 
> is a simple alternative like passing a cloth ONE TIME on each side of 
> the PCB?
>
> bye
> as
>
>   
Something is wrong here.
I remove it mechanicaly and board 10cm X 8cm take 20-30 second to remove 
all toner!
And till now I didn't destroy any board and near all board have SMD 
chips with 0.65mm distance within pins and all 8 mils (0.2mm) stay on board.
Maybe that is problem with FR2 but I use CEM3 and FR4 boards.
And just use metal mesh for cleaning pans in kitchen (don't know the 
english name).
... just rubb under little (cold) water flow.

... and this doesn't stink. Wel acetone maybe doesn't stink for someone 
but breathing this is still not good idea.

Slavko.

> Ah, I think I can see the reason for the different methods! When
> I do toner transfer with an HP LaserJet 4+, the toner is not
> brittle at all, and does not come off easily. I use acetone
> (sold in the UK as finger-nail polish remover) and a rag, but
> I have to rub quite hard, and it takes some time.
>
> Different toners seem to require different solvents and techniques.
>
>   
Maybe this is the problem why someone had problem with that.

So scrub buds and watter for HP LJ1020 :D

my toner is VERY HARD, not brittle!  I'll try acetone

On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 12:09 PM, Slavko Kocjancic <eslavko@...> wrote:
> Alessio Sangalli pravi:
>>
>> For who removes it "mechanically": come on, how can you risk to damage
>> small traces on your board, and put several minutes of effort when there
>> is a simple alternative like passing a cloth ONE TIME on each side of
>> the PCB?
>>
>> bye
>> as
>>
>>
> Something is wrong here.
> I remove it mechanicaly and board 10cm X 8cm take 20-30 second to remove
> all toner!
> And till now I didn't destroy any board and near all board have SMD
> chips with 0.65mm distance within pins and all 8 mils (0.2mm) stay on board.
> Maybe that is problem with FR2 but I use CEM3 and FR4 boards.
> And just use metal mesh for cleaning pans in kitchen (don't know the
> english name).
> ... just rubb under little (cold) water flow.
>
> ... and this doesn't stink. Wel acetone maybe doesn't stink for someone
> but breathing this is still not good idea.
>
> Slavko.
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>



-- 
Paul Mateer, AA9GG
Elan Engineering Corp.
www.elanengr.com
NAQCC 3123, SKCC 4628, FPQRP 2003

Well hard doesn't exclude brittle, I'd rather say brittleness requires hardness.

If it doesn't scrape clean off with a steel edge, obviously this
method is not suitable.

ST

On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 7:14 PM, Paul Mateer <paul.aa9gg@...> wrote:
> my toner is VERY HARD, not brittle!  I'll try acetone
>

I also find xylene to be excellent at toner removal. I get in the form of a product called Goof Off.

Regards,
Royce

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Leon Heller <leon355@...> wrote:

>
> On 11/08/2010 06:20, AA9GG wrote:
> > Just tried my hand at toner transfer. What is the trick to remove the toner from the board once etched? I'm having a heck of a time trying to get it off.
> 
> 
> Rub it with a piece of kitchen towel moistened with cellulose thinners 
> (xylene).
> 
> Leon
> -- 
> Leon Heller
> G1HSM
>

On 08/11/2010 09:59 AM, Mike Bushroe wrote:

> I was not always able to get the green foil off well, even in a acetone
> bath, so I stepped up the M.E.K. Toxic stuff, but effective.

Normally I've seen a trend like "the more toxic, the more effective", so 
I am very interested in this. Can you tell me more about "MEK"?

bye
as

For removing Toner Resist from PCB's, I like "Brake Cleaner" from the auto
parts store (easy to find and cheep), it has several solvents (the good
stuff) in it and has a handy spray tube so that you get a wash-down
action. Note: it is not a good cleaner after part are loaded as it will
dissolve many plastics. I use alcohol for cleaning loaded PCB's.

I do not like solvent with a towel, because dissolved Towner is pushed into
and on the substrate, which requires just more cleaning - it you have "done
that", you know what I mean.

Regards,
Eldon Brown

72 - Eldon - WA0UWH - CN88xc - http://WA0UWH.blogspot.com/

-


On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 2:13 PM, Alessio Sangalli <alesan@...>wrote:

>
>
> On 08/11/2010 09:59 AM, Mike Bushroe wrote:
>
> > I was not always able to get the green foil off well, even in a acetone
> > bath, so I stepped up the M.E.K. Toxic stuff, but effective.
>
> Normally I've seen a trend like "the more toxic, the more effective", so
> I am very interested in this. Can you tell me more about "MEK"?
>
> bye
> as
>
>  
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On 08/11/2010 02:29 PM, Eldon Brown wrote:
> For removing Toner Resist from PCB's, I like "Brake Cleaner" from the auto

Oh yes the brake cleaner is good stuff I must try it for PCB cleaning. 
Thanks also for the tip on not using a towel

bye
as

On 11/08/2010 22:13, Alessio Sangalli wrote:
> On 08/11/2010 09:59 AM, Mike Bushroe wrote:
>
>> I was not always able to get the green foil off well, even in a acetone
>> bath, so I stepped up the M.E.K. Toxic stuff, but effective.
>
> Normally I've seen a trend like "the more toxic, the more effective", so
> I am very interested in this. Can you tell me more about "MEK"?

Methyl ethyl ketone. It's related to acetone (hence the ketone), but is 
a lot more reactive because of the other radicals:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butanone

It can be used to make a powerful explosive, so you might get a visit 
from the police if you buy a lot of it.

Leon
-- 
Leon Heller
G1HSM

Alessio Sangalli wrote:
> On 08/10/2010 11:35 PM, Eddie Stassen wrote:
>   
>> Lacquer thinners works way better than acetone
>>     
>
> I had to look for your answer in the mail you sent, but when I found it, 
> I must ask, how can it be better than acetone?
>
> Acetone works so well, you make a shop cloth wet with it, yuo pass it 
> ONE TIME and the copper is shiny clean. Heavy duty flux cleaner works as 
> well.
>   
I suppose it does depend on the toner/printer.  My experience is limited 
to HP and Canon.  I have always found that thinners removes the toner 
without any effort at all, i.e. simply wipe the board with a paper towel 
wetted with thinners.  Acetone, on the other hand, requires a little 
more rubbing and effort.
> For who removes it "mechanically": come on, how can you risk to damage 
> small traces on your board, and put several minutes of effort when there 
> is a simple alternative like passing a cloth ONE TIME on each side of 
> the PCB?
>
>   
I agree with you on that one, but at the end of the day whatever works 
for you is ok I suppose.

John,
You said you were using fingernail polish remover (acetone). If you go to your local hardware store and get acetone (higher concentration) or any kind of paint or lacquer thinner, your results will be dramatically different.

Just remember to leave your windows and doors open when you are using the concentrated solutions, i.e have plenty of ventilation and no cigarettes!  :-)


Frank P.

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, anachrocomputer <anachrocomputer@...> wrote:

>
> 
> --- On Wed, 11/8/10, Stefan Trethan <stefan_trethan@...> wrote:
> > From: Stefan Trethan <stefan_trethan@...>
> > Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] removing toner?
> > To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> > Date: Wednesday, 11 August, 2010, 16:47
> 
> > Because it takes less seconds to
> > scrape it off mechanically.
> > It is very brittle and comes off easily.
> 
> Ah, I think I can see the reason for the different methods! When
> I do toner transfer with an HP LaserJet 4+, the toner is not
> brittle at all, and does not come off easily. I use acetone
> (sold in the UK as finger-nail polish remover) and a rag, but
> I have to rub quite hard, and it takes some time.
> 
> Different toners seem to require different solvents and techniques.
> 
> -- 
> John Honniball
>

MEK stands for Meth-Ethyl-Ketone, and yes, I have seen something like an order of magnitude difference in how much of the green foil leaves the traces, and does not get re-deposited on the bare fiberglass elsewhere.

Available from McMaster-Carr
http://www.mcmaster.com/?orderview=new#fluorescent-ballasts/=8dz6aa
MSDS sheet for MEK
http://www.sciencelab.com/msds.php?msdsId=9927358

it is not expensive, $10 for a quart. Just get it on your skin or breath the vapors!

Mike


--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Alessio Sangalli <alesan@...> wrote:

>
> On 08/11/2010 09:59 AM, Mike Bushroe wrote:
> 
> > I was not always able to get the green foil off well, even in a acetone
> > bath, so I stepped up the M.E.K. Toxic stuff, but effective.
> 
> Normally I've seen a trend like "the more toxic, the more effective", so 
> I am very interested in this. Can you tell me more about "MEK"?
> 
> bye
> as
>

We need an entire forum dedicated to removing toner.  :)

On 08/13/2010 11:00 AM, Mike wrote:
> MEK stands for Meth-Ethyl-Ketone, and yes, I have seen something like an order of magnitude difference in how much of the green foil leaves the traces, and does not get re-deposited on the bare fiberglass elsewhere.
>
> Available from McMaster-Carr
> http://www.mcmaster.com/?orderview=new#fluorescent-ballasts/=8dz6aa

Good ballast, do you need to sqeeze it to take the MEK out of it :) ???

Anyway I've seen it's cheaper than acetone for a 1qt can.

bye
as

Hi, Group!

Wait-Wait-WAAAAIT!  Hold on a moment!  "Just get it on your skin or breath [sic] 
the vapors!"  WWHAT!?  I believe that you might have wanted to say, "Just DON'T 
get it on your skin or BREATHE the vapors!", right?  MEK, MethYL-Ethyl-Ketone, 
is VERY volatile, and absorbs easily through the skin, so these were 
well-intentioned words of warning - They just didn't quite come out right. 


And thank you for the information - the cautionary note is greatly appreciated!

Dave Garfield, who probably doesn't want to go near MEK after all that...  ;->




________________________________

From: Mike <mbushroe@...>
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Fri, August 13, 2010 12:00:22 PM
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: removing toner?

MEK stands for Meth-Ethyl-Ketone, and yes, I have seen something like an order 
of magnitude difference in how much of the green foil leaves the traces, and 
does not get re-deposited on the bare fiberglass elsewhere.

Available from McMaster-Carr
http://www.mcmaster.com/?orderview=new#fluorescent-ballasts/=8dz6aa
MSDS sheet for MEK
http://www.sciencelab.com/msds.php?msdsId=9927358

it is not expensive, $10 for a quart. Just get it on your skin or breath the 
vapors!

Mike


--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Alessio Sangalli <alesan@...> wrote:
>
> On 08/11/2010 09:59 AM, Mike Bushroe wrote:
> 
> > I was not always able to get the green foil off well, even in a acetone
> > bath, so I stepped up the M.E.K. Toxic stuff, but effective.
> 
> Normally I've seen a trend like "the more toxic, the more effective", so 
> I am very interested in this. Can you tell me more about "MEK"?
> 
> bye
> as
>




------------------------------------

Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links




      

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Probably you first install the ballast so you have better light to
search for the MEK. ;-)

Does anyone know what plastic it attacks? Is it more agressive towards
plastic than acetone or the same?

Was this the solvent that is so dangerous for the eyes or was that another one?

ST

On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 9:26 PM, Alessio Sangalli <alesan@...> wrote:
il leaves the traces, and does not get re-deposited on the bare
fiberglass elsewhere.

>>
>> Available from McMaster-Carr
>> http://www.mcmaster.com/?orderview=new#fluorescent-ballasts/=8dz6aa
>
> Good ballast, do you need to sqeeze it to take the MEK out of it :) ???
>
> Anyway I've seen it's cheaper than acetone for a 1qt can.
>
> bye
> as
>
>

We used to call MEK "cancer in a can."  Only somewhat humourously.  I suggest reading and understanding the MSDS.

Donald.
--
"Plain Text" email -- it's an accessibility issue
()  no proprietary attachments; no html mail
/\  ascii ribbon campaign - <www.asciiribbon.org>

----- Original Message -----

> From: "Stefan Trethan" <stefan_trethan@...>
> To: "Homebrew PCBs" <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2010 1:24:44 AM
> Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: removing toner?
> 
> Probably you first install the ballast so you have better light to
> search for the MEK. ;-)
> 
> Does anyone know what plastic it attacks? Is it more agressive towards
> plastic than acetone or the same?
> 
> Was this the solvent that is so dangerous for the eyes or was that
> another one?
> 
> ST
> 
> On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 9:26 PM, Alessio Sangalli <alesan@...>
> wrote:
> il leaves the traces, and does not get re-deposited on the bare
> fiberglass elsewhere.
> >>
> >> Available from McMaster-Carr
> >>
> http://www.mcmaster.com/?orderview=new#fluorescent-ballasts/=8dz6aa
> >
> > Good ballast, do you need to sqeeze it to take the MEK out of it :)
> ???
> >
> > Anyway I've seen it's cheaper than acetone for a 1qt can.
> >
> > bye
> > as
> >
> >
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------
> 
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and
> Photos:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
>

On 14/08/2010 17:07, Donald H Locker wrote:
> We used to call MEK "cancer in a can."  Only somewhat humourously.  I suggest reading and understanding the MSDS.


"Big bang in a can" might be appropriate, these days, given it's 
possible use by terrorists. 8-)

Leon
-- 
Leon Heller
G1HSM

Well it's only Xi rating (irritant), doesn't look all that dangerous
compared to petrol, paint thinner, etc...

ST

On Sat, Aug 14, 2010 at 6:07 PM, Donald H Locker <dhlocker@...> wrote:
> We used to call MEK "cancer in a can."  Only somewhat humourously.  I suggest reading and understanding the MSDS.
>
> Donald.
> --

OK.

Donald.
--
"Plain Text" email -- it's an accessibility issue
()  no proprietary attachments; no html mail
/\  ascii ribbon campaign - <www.asciiribbon.org>

----- Original Message -----

> From: "Stefan Trethan" <stefan_trethan@...>
> To: "Homebrew PCBs" <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2010 1:16:53 PM
> Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: removing toner?
> 
> Well it's only Xi rating (irritant), doesn't look all that dangerous
> compared to petrol, paint thinner, etc...
> 
> ST
> 
> On Sat, Aug 14, 2010 at 6:07 PM, Donald H Locker
> <dhlocker@...> wrote:
> > We used to call MEK "cancer in a can."  Only somewhat humourously.
>  I suggest reading and understanding the MSDS.
> >
> > Donald.
> > --
>

No one is health friendly! :D

Even scrubbing is not health friendly as toner itself is declared as 
cancerogenic. So if scrubbing work (work for me) then use that and watter.

Removing toner does not require harsh industrial solvents.  I use sandpaper and a sanding pad.  It only takes a couple of seconds to remove the toner.  Fine grit paper in the range of 320 grit works very well.  If you don't want the toner dust getting on everything, buy wet/dry sandpaper and use water to wet sand the PCB. 

Chris

ok...here's what I found. A green scrubber and REAL nail polish remover (the
type with acetone) worked like MAGIC.

On Sun, Aug 15, 2010 at 8:02 AM, Chris <lcdpublishing@...> wrote:

>
>
> Removing toner does not require harsh industrial solvents. I use sandpaper
> and a sanding pad. It only takes a couple of seconds to remove the toner.
> Fine grit paper in the range of 320 grit works very well. If you don't want
> the toner dust getting on everything, buy wet/dry sandpaper and use water to
> wet sand the PCB.
>
> Chris
>
>  
>



-- 
Paul Mateer, AA9GG
Elan Engineering Corp.
www.elanengr.com
NAQCC 3123, SKCC 4628, FPQRP 2003


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I think good old acetone has gotten a bad rap lately. It makes great 
toner  and wax remover and also works on my solid ink was printing.
I've still use that now for silk screen and panel stickers. I've 
switched to Mark Lermans's direct-toner method for ease of use and cost.

The body actually produces low amounts of it naturally in processes 
dealing with fat
storage and reduction. I have found it to be a wonder cure for cold 
sores. Studies in the early 70's showed great effectiveness in treating
viral infections. Diluted in water and ingested. Call me crazy and I'm 
sure someone will jump up and scream that I will dissolve next time I 
use it ;-)

I had some kittens given to me that were infected with the FIP virus ( 
google it ). It's a horrible experience to get attached to them and them 
watch them
wither and die. I wish I had known the above mentioned effects then, I 
would have tried giving them very small diluted amounts to try to 
kill/control the virus
in the intestinal tract and give their immune systems a chance to win.
-Lee

It is amazing how this thread is progressing.
One quick comment: Nail polish remover contains oil so pure acetone is much
more effective.
Bertho

-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Mateer   Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2010 19:05

ok...here's what I found. A green scrubber and REAL nail polish remover (the
type with acetone) worked like MAGIC.

The body has coping mechnisms for small amounts of acetone, because
alcohols can be present naturally in foods and alcohol is even partly
broken down into acetone. So the small amount we use for cleaning a
PCB, where we might inhale the vapor or get some on the skin, should
not be an issue at all.

Personally, I much prefer using acetone or alcohol solvents over any
hydrocarbon solvent, which our body has not evolved to deal with.

Now the question is if MEK is similarly benign or not.

ST

On Mon, Aug 16, 2010 at 1:25 AM, Lee Studley <indigo_red@...> wrote:
> I think good old acetone has gotten a bad rap lately. It makes great
> toner  and wax remover and also works on my solid ink was printing.
> I've still use that now for silk screen and panel stickers. I've
> switched to Mark Lermans's direct-toner method for ease of use and cost.
>
> The body actually produces low amounts of it naturally in processes
> dealing with fat
> storage and reduction. I have found it to be a wonder cure for cold
> sores. Studies in the early 70's showed great effectiveness in treating
> viral infections. Diluted in water and ingested. Call me crazy and I'm
> sure someone will jump up and scream that I will dissolve next time I
> use it ;-)
>

On 16/08/2010 05:54, Stefan Trethan wrote:
> The body has coping mechnisms for small amounts of acetone, because
> alcohols can be present naturally in foods and alcohol is even partly
> broken down into acetone. So the small amount we use for cleaning a
> PCB, where we might inhale the vapor or get some on the skin, should
> not be an issue at all.

Ketones including acetone are produced by diabetics. It's quite 
noticeable in their breath.

Leon
-- 
Leon Heller
G1HSM

> No one is health friendly! :D
> 
> Even scrubbing is not health friendly as toner itself is declared as
> cancerogenic. So if scrubbing work (work for me) then use that and
> watter.


No it hasn't.

Breathing it in as a powder won't do your lungs much good, but that applies to just about everything.  Dust in bad, be it toner, sand or sawdust.

Scrubbing the fused stuff off a board won't do much.

Tony

> Wait-Wait-WAAAAIT!� Hold on a moment!� "Just get it on your skin or breath [sic] 
> the vapors!"� WWHAT!?� I believe that you might have wanted to say, "Just DON'T 
> get it on your skin or BREATHE the vapors!", right?� MEK, MethYL-Ethyl-Ketone, 
> is VERY volatile, and absorbs easily through the skin, so these were 
> well-intentioned words of warning - They just didn't quite come out right. 


Yes, Mia Bad! I left out the word 'avoid', and dropped the 'ing' on the verbs.

And sorry about the ballast. On another forum, some one was asking about a UV pcb mask burner, that was running two bulbs in series when only rated for 1. But they are using it in the UK, where the mains are double the line voltage in the US, so two bulbs in series may actually be ok.

Mike