Homebrew_PCBs

I've been quite dissatisfied with my $20 soldering iron, takes
upwards of half an hour to get hot, the tip oxidized in no time
despite frequent tinning and solder seemed to like it waaay better
than the parts I work on.


Yesterday I picked up a Weller WTCPT station. Nothing fancy, no
temperature knob or calibration touch-spots but I gotta say WOW. What
a difference!

Heat up time was minutes, not exactly sure how long as I wasn't
paying attention. I picked it up shortly after turning it on just to
see if it was warm and damned if it wasn't already at full
temperature.

Solder almost leaps away from the tip. What little I do pick up is
easily wiped away. Quite wipe on a wet sponge and its shiny as all
get out.

Heat transfer is way better as well. About 1 second and the deed is
done, the old iron took as much as five seconds to heat a DIP leg.

Moral of the story - if you're still using a cheapo iron, DUMP IT NOW
and go buy a real soldering station - the difference is amazing.

yea you are very right with this...

the difference is amazing...

i have a good station with a ersa 60watts iron.
i made the control circuit and the transformer a time ago in school.
it was more expensive than buying one complete i think (even at that time).

I simply can't use a cheap not temperature controlled iron any more.

i have one of this dumb 100watts pistol type irons with me when i go out
for repairs where i don't expect needing soldering. it works for some
joints and it is much lighter than
the station. but whenever i expect soldering on a pcb i take the trusty
soldering station..

the third iron i regularly use is a 100wats straight iron with no
temperature control.
it has a large copper body and enogh power for big joints (like soldering
batteries).


the tips of these stations are amazing, compared to plain copper they last
forever.
i mainly use a 1mm pencil and a 3mm flat one.


NEVER EVER clean these tips with abrasive materials (file, steel brush).
it will damage the coat and you can throw it away.
luckily these tips seldom need cleaning...

i also strongly recommend never using acid flux solder (if you want to
solder steel wire or so).
this may damage the tip too....

a soldering station is definitely worth the money..
and different tips for it maybe too..

suggestion: buy one where you can adjust the temperature.
if you set it a bit hotter it is much easier to solder these thin
"transformer wire"
with laquer isolation. there is a kind where the laquer melts on soldering -
but only if hot enough.
also a bit below normal temperature setting is good to make "solder jumper
bridges" on proto boards.
but most time you need no adjustment.



regards
stefan


On Sun, 24 Aug 2003 20:50:26 -0000, ghidera2000 <ghidera2000@...>
wrote:

> I've been quite dissatisfied with my $20 soldering iron, takes upwards of
> half an hour to get hot, the tip oxidized in no time despite frequent
> tinning and solder seemed to like it waaay better than the parts I work
> on.
>
>
> Yesterday I picked up a Weller WTCPT station. Nothing fancy, no
> temperature knob or calibration touch-spots but I gotta say WOW. What a
> difference!
>
> Heat up time was minutes, not exactly sure how long as I wasn't paying
> attention. I picked it up shortly after turning it on just to see if it
> was warm and damned if it wasn't already at full temperature.
>
> Solder almost leaps away from the tip. What little I do pick up is easily
> wiped away. Quite wipe on a wet sponge and its shiny as all get out.
>
> Heat transfer is way better as well. About 1 second and the deed is done,
> the old iron took as much as five seconds to heat a DIP leg.
>
> Moral of the story - if you're still using a cheapo iron, DUMP IT NOW and
> go buy a real soldering station - the difference is amazing.
>
>
>
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and files:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "ghidera2000"
<ghidera2000@y...> wrote:

> I've been quite dissatisfied with my $20 soldering iron, takes
> upwards of half an hour to get hot, the tip oxidized in no time
> despite frequent tinning and solder seemed to like it waaay better
> than the parts I work on.
>
>
> Yesterday I picked up a Weller WTCPT station. Nothing fancy, no
> temperature knob or calibration touch-spots but I gotta say WOW.

What

> a difference!
>
> Heat up time was minutes, not exactly sure how long as I wasn't
> paying attention. I picked it up shortly after turning it on just

to

> see if it was warm and damned if it wasn't already at full
> temperature.
>
> Solder almost leaps away from the tip. What little I do pick up is
> easily wiped away. Quite wipe on a wet sponge and its shiny as all
> get out.
>
> Heat transfer is way better as well. About 1 second and the deed is
> done, the old iron took as much as five seconds to heat a DIP leg.
>
> Moral of the story - if you're still using a cheapo iron, DUMP IT

NOW

> and go buy a real soldering station - the difference is amazing.

My wife does stained glass and she would shoot me if I put a wet
sponge anywher near her irons. they make them start to oxidize and
in short order they won't remain tinned.

She uses a salaluminiac (sp?) block. one takes the hot iron and rubs
it on this block, adds flux, solder to the tip and then uses the
solder almost like a cleaner on the block.

I have to say, my $3.99 iron may take awhile to get hot, but I know
what you mean when you say leaping solder.

The other thing she has that I can use is liquid flux. if you have
ever tried to solder large copper connectors or wire the difference
when brushing on some flux is unbelievable.

normal cautions apply, don't use acid flux, it may work quickly on
old corroded stuff, but will also eat away at it. my plumbers acid
flux is just for emergencies. I think it's active ingredient is
either sulphuric acid or hydrochloric acid, it's been a long
awhile....


Dave

>
>
> My wife does stained glass and she would shoot me if I put a wet sponge
> anywher near her irons. they make them start to oxidize and in short
> order they won't remain tinned.
>
> She uses a salaluminiac (sp?) block. one takes the hot iron and rubs it
> on this block, adds flux, solder to the tip and then uses the solder
> almost like a cleaner on the block.
>
> I have to say, my $3.99 iron may take awhile to get hot, but I know what
> you mean when you say leaping solder.
>
> The other thing she has that I can use is liquid flux. if you have ever
> tried to solder large copper connectors or wire the difference when
> brushing on some flux is unbelievable.
>
> normal cautions apply, don't use acid flux, it may work quickly on old
> corroded stuff, but will also eat away at it. my plumbers acid flux is
> just for emergencies. I think it's active ingredient is either sulphuric
> acid or hydrochloric acid, it's been a long awhile....
>
>
> Dave
>
>
>

i have such salmiac stones too.. but never used them.
i thought they are only for plain copper tips not the coated ones?
i use a wet sponge all the time (ok sometimes it is dry) or a paper towel
(dry).
recently i made a "rupper sponge" of hight temperature silicon. i have seen
this somewhere.
but i am not satisfied with the result. the wet sponge is much better.
(my dictionary says "salmiak" is ammonium cloride)

uses your wife coated tips? i do not think coated tips are used with
salmiac.
also why then so many stations sold for electronics have a holder for a
sponge (to be wetted).
it is just under the holder for the iron.
i think the wet sponge is the standard cleaning for electronics work.
if it damages the irons why should the manufacturers put a sponge on their
iron stands.

if you need brush-on flux try to get colophony / resin flux.
buy either a paste to apply directly or buy the solid crystals.
then simply solve it in alcohol and brush on.
you can also "paint" a fresh pcb with it to ease soldering and protect from
corrosion.

i don't fully understand what you mean with "leaping solder".
you should only use the iron to heat the joint, and apply the solder to the
joint not to the iron.
i often siply toss of the solder if it collects on the tip (this occurs
when soldering wires more often).
this is much faster than a sponge. and if you get it right it leaves just
the right amount of solder to aid
in heat conduction at the joint. if you clean it with the sponge it often
needs some tinning to get fast heating..


I think the tips i use have some sort of iron coating.
i have seen a diagram on the www but have no url any more.
it showed a amazing number of different coating layers on a good tip.


st

> > My wife does stained glass and she would shoot me if I put a wet

sponge

> > anywher near her irons. they make them start to oxidize and in short
> > order they won't remain tinned.

-snip-

> > Dave


> i have such salmiac stones too.. but never used them.
> i thought they are only for plain copper tips not the coated ones?
> i use a wet sponge all the time (ok sometimes it is dry) or a paper

towel

> (dry).

-snip-

> Stefan

I'm betting Dave's wife's soldering iron has an uncoated copper tip.
The wet sponge is for iron plated tips, which is what good soldering
irons have on them. All the Weller soldering iron tips are iron
plated. Cheaper soldering irons may have tin plated tips.

I do as I think Stefan said, mostly I just flick the solder off the
iron to clean it, leaves a good coat of solder. I keep a damp sponge
there, too, to get it clean when a lot of gunk builds up. Or if I'm in
the field and don't have the sponge there, I am pretty quick with my
fingers. Yes, I give the tip a quick wipe with my fingertip. Very
quickly, if you hesitate at all your skin sticks and you'll get a
blister. I also -never- wipe and then put it back in the stand, or the
tip builds up oxide, especially if you used your finger to wipe it. I
first put a tiny bit of fresh solder on the tip after wiping .

I've found most adjustable soldering pens to leave a lot to be
desired. I use an 800 F tip in my Weller, solders fast, get in and get
out and there's little chance of burning the trace off the board.

In the past I've found that if I don't tin my PCBs then I must scrub
them immediately before soldering. If I tin them (electroless tin
plate) soldering is easier.

Steve Greenfield

Or if I'm in

> the field and don't have the sponge there, I am pretty quick with my
> fingers. Yes, I give the tip a quick wipe with my fingertip. Very
> quickly, if you hesitate at all your skin sticks and you'll get a
> blister.

> Steve Greenfield
>
>

that's funny..
i do that too...
i didn't dare to write it because i thought it is a bit crazy
(and maybe dangerous for unexperienced)...

st

>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks and files:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Homebrew_PCBs-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

i just use a damp sponge and the end off a small brass
brush mounted next to my spong holder ben do this for
many years dont use steel it to easy to destroy the
coating on the tip.
--- Steve <alienrelics@...> wrote:

> > > My wife does stained glass and she would shoot
> me if I put a wet
> sponge
> > > anywher near her irons. they make them start to
> oxidize and in short
> > > order they won't remain tinned.
> -snip-
> > > Dave
>
>
> > i have such salmiac stones too.. but never used
> them.
> > i thought they are only for plain copper tips not
> the coated ones?
> > i use a wet sponge all the time (ok sometimes it
> is dry) or a paper
> towel
> > (dry).
> -snip-
> > Stefan
>
>
> I'm betting Dave's wife's soldering iron has an
> uncoated copper tip.
> The wet sponge is for iron plated tips, which is
> what good soldering
> irons have on them. All the Weller soldering iron
> tips are iron
> plated. Cheaper soldering irons may have tin plated
> tips.
>
> I do as I think Stefan said, mostly I just flick the
> solder off the
> iron to clean it, leaves a good coat of solder. I
> keep a damp sponge
> there, too, to get it clean when a lot of gunk
> builds up. Or if I'm in
> the field and don't have the sponge there, I am
> pretty quick with my
> fingers. Yes, I give the tip a quick wipe with my
> fingertip. Very
> quickly, if you hesitate at all your skin sticks and
> you'll get a
> blister. I also -never- wipe and then put it back in
> the stand, or the
> tip builds up oxide, especially if you used your
> finger to wipe it. I
> first put a tiny bit of fresh solder on the tip
> after wiping .
>
> I've found most adjustable soldering pens to leave a
> lot to be
> desired. I use an 800 F tip in my Weller, solders
> fast, get in and get
> out and there's little chance of burning the trace
> off the board.
>
> In the past I've found that if I don't tin my PCBs
> then I must scrub
> them immediately before soldering. If I tin them
> (electroless tin
> plate) soldering is easier.
>
> Steve Greenfield
>
>

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--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, kenneth magers
<kenneth_m_73149@y...> wrote:

> i just use a damp sponge and the end off a small brass
> brush mounted next to my spong holder ben do this for
> many years dont use steel it to easy to destroy the
> coating on the tip.

I don't know how to tell if the tip is coated. the Weller iron is
self regulating in the tip. different tips are different
temperatures.

leaping solder means that the solder is more 'wet' for lack of a
better term. wet solder seems to touch the work and heat the work
and quickly move from the iron to the work for a nice joint.

before using the block I had to clean the tip frequently, now it
lasts way longer.

bottom line is if it works for you, use it !

Dave

Hello Stefan,

25. August 2003, 15:38:48, you wrote:



ST> i have such salmiac stones too.. but never used them.
ST> i thought they are only for plain copper tips not the coated ones?
ST> i use a wet sponge all the time (ok sometimes it is dry) or a paper towel
ST> (dry).
Or your figers!!

<snip>

ST> if you need brush-on flux try to get colophony / resin flux.
ST> buy either a paste to apply directly or buy the solid crystals.
ST> then simply solve it in alcohol and brush on.
ST> you can also "paint" a fresh pcb with it to ease soldering and protect from
ST> corrosion.

I could not resist on replying to this! I prefer the colophony/resin
disolved in the nitrocelulose thinner as it dries faster than disolved in
alcohol (any kind of - aethanol or methanol or isoprophyl).

As for now, I've produced (for my needs - this evening) 20 PCBs that will
last at least 10 years, and the only coating on the copper side is the
colophonium/resin.


--
Best Regards,
Zoran
mailto:zasto@...
www.zas-elmed.co.yu

Hello Dave,

26. August 2003, 02:40:25, you wrote:

DM> I don't know how to tell if the tip is coated. the Weller iron is
DM> self regulating in the tip. different tips are different
DM> temperatures.

DM> leaping solder means that the solder is more 'wet' for lack of a
DM> better term. wet solder seems to touch the work and heat the work
DM> and quickly move from the iron to the work for a nice joint.

DM> before using the block I had to clean the tip frequently, now it
DM> lasts way longer.

DM> bottom line is if it works for you, use it !

DM> Dave


And I replied:

All WELLER tips are iron coated and they do not like mechanical cleaning. I
bought my soldering iron 22 years ago and I'm still using it. It i an WTCP
(magnasat) working perfectly. For cleaning I use Weller Tip Activator (lead
free) compound, and I bought it 10 years ago (my tip collection have 25
tips)

--
Best Regards,
Zoran
mailto:zasto@...

Just took a look at information from Weller. They recommend that
you only use a synthetetic wet sponge to clean the tip. They do not
recommend rags or cloths. They recommend frequently cleaning the
tip and retinning right after cleaning. They also recommend using
distilled water instead of tap water to avoid the mineral content
found in most tap water.

I have been know to use other things to clean the tip especially in
the field, but I have to say that the wet sponge is the best I have
seen. A number of the guys at work use the brass pads that have
been out for a number of years now or atleast that I have seen them
but I have always wondered about tip wear with these. Personal have
not used them due to that. The wet sponge has been working for me
for 25+ yrs of professional soldering. In Jr. High and High School
I used the sling method or whatever was handy to wipe it on. The
sponge is cleaner and neater. Yes in the field it is inconvenient
but is what I find to give the best results.

Ben

By "Leaping" I meant in comparison to the old iron. The old one
seemed to suck up any solder within reach - hell, I swear some
teleported to the tip!

The new iron picks up very little, just a tiny bead at the tip
sometimes which I actually find useful for tacking in that first leg
of an awkward job. The instructions say its best to leave that
solder on the tip at the end of a session - protects it from
oxidation. Whodathunkit :D

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Stefan Trethan
<stefan_trethan@g...> wrote:

> i don't fully understand what you mean with "leaping solder".
> you should only use the iron to heat the joint, and apply the

solder to the

> joint not to the iron.

I used to use a wet sponge until someone showed me a Hakko cleaner. It looks like brass turnings off a metal lathe. Works well, and you don't need water. Along the same line, a friend used his pants as a cleaner. Occasionally the tip would stick and he'd burn them, but it did work.

At one time I used a Metcal iron, its like another major step above the Wellers. Wow did it work well for both solder and desolder, but it was insanely expensive $1200US. As their were tips for each type of IC package for desoldering. One could remove a 68pin fine pitch device without damage in around a minute and that included the time to change tips and reheat.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> I could not resist on replying to this! I prefer the

colophony/resin

> disolved in the nitrocelulose thinner as it dries faster than

disolved in

> alcohol (any kind of - aethanol or methanol or isoprophyl).
>
> As for now, I've produced (for my needs - this evening) 20 PCBs

that will

> last at least 10 years, and the only coating on the copper

side is the

> colophonium/resin.

Can you tell us more about this ?

Dave

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Ben H. Lanmon" <bhleavi@y...>
wrote:

> Just took a look at information from Weller. They recommend that
> you only use a synthetetic wet sponge to clean the tip. They do

not

> recommend rags or cloths. They recommend frequently cleaning the
> tip and retinning right after cleaning. They also recommend using
> distilled water instead of tap water to avoid the mineral content
> found in most tap water.
>
> I have been know to use other things to clean the tip especially in
> the field, but I have to say that the wet sponge is the best I have
> seen. A number of the guys at work use the brass pads that have
> been out for a number of years now or atleast that I have seen them
> but I have always wondered about tip wear with these. Personal

have

> not used them due to that. The wet sponge has been working for me
> for 25+ yrs of professional soldering. In Jr. High and High School
> I used the sling method or whatever was handy to wipe it on. The
> sponge is cleaner and neater. Yes in the field it is inconvenient
> but is what I find to give the best results.

I thought SOP for field use was a coffee stained napkin from the
donut shop ?

>
> I could not resist on replying to this! I prefer the
> colophony/resin
> disolved in the nitrocelulose thinner as it dries faster than disolved
> in
> alcohol (any kind of - aethanol or methanol or isoprophyl).
>
> As for now, I've produced (for my needs - this evening) 20 PCBs that
> will
> last at least 10 years, and the only coating on the copper side is
> the
> colophonium/resin.
>
>

hi

i am not sure if it is the best long-durability coat.
do you coat it before sodering and then not again?
i would fear the coat may be interupted near the soldering joints.

if i want to make a board that last forever i would clean it on the solder
side after soldering
and then paint it with clear laquer.

do you have long term experience with this? does it really last so long?

i once dissolved it in acetone because i had no alcohol left. (i use ethyl
alcohol).
it worked too but it dried maybe too quick. also it was not the shiny coat
you get from
alcohol solved resin. how is this with nitrocelulose thinner? shiny or
matt?
- at the moment i am not sure what nitrocelulose thinner is. i wonder if it
simply is "nitro thinner" as it is called here or something else.

you may have read when i suggested to use colophony/resin as resist in
inkjet/plotter.
the problem is that it is a sticky mess when you dissolve it in ethyl
alcohol.
i treid how it resists etchant and the results are not bad but i have no
idea
how to make a "laquer" of it.

st

Along these lines, I just got a new toy. It's a knock off of a Hakko
850 hot air station. This thing works a treat. I preheat the board
for a bit to limit the thermal shot and hold the wand over a part for
a couple of seconds and pry it up with a dental pic (have done 100
pin fqfps. Works amazingly well. I had been using chip quik alloys
before. This is a lot cleaner.

Also, it solders smt caps, resistors, other small descretes really
slick (with solder paste). I still prefer to do the high density
smts with the soldering iron though. The hot air doesn't seem to
damage the ceramic caps like I was doing with the solder iron.
Still, I need to get my toaster oven going. I've done a few boards
with it, but I don't have a tight temp controller on it yet so I'm
sure I'm cooking them too long.

Anyway i got the "Atten 850" hot air station through ebay. New
direct from Hong Kong was $154 --much cheaper than the Hakko's I've
seen listed...

--- "Ron Amundson" wrote:

> At one time I used a Metcal iron, its like another major step above

the Wellers. Wow did it work well for both solder and desolder, but
it was insanely expensive $1200US. As their were tips for each type
of IC package for desoldering. One could remove a 68pin fine pitch
device without damage in around a minute and that included the time
to change tips and reheat.