Homebrew PCBs

This one looks decent (thanks, Stefan!) and has a free version so I'm going to quickly check it out.

Target 3001
http://server.ibfriedrich.com/wiki/ibfwikien/index.php?title=Main_Page

Free version 250 Pins/Pads, 2 copper layers, 1.2m x 1.2m, 30 signals simulatable
all functions active (Version V14.5.0.80, 2009-11-23).
	* Schematic

	* Simulation

	* Layout

	* Autorouter

	* 3D-view

	* Gerber data, Milling data

	* Prototype

	* Frontpanel
 Steve Greenfield
Electronic Engineering Technician student
Electronic Technician 20+ years
CET Computers and Consumer Electronics
IPC-A-610D CIS Specialist

In my opinion it is much more intuitive, but learning any new software
is not easy!

At least it could import Gerber files with it, so maybe you can do
most of the work in Diptrace and just leave the connector out?

Let me know if you need anything done in either Eagle or Target, I've
used both for several years (although only the latter by choice, and I
hope to see the last of Eagle as soon as they give us some goddamn
budget again.).


ST

On Sat, Feb 13, 2010 at 5:48 PM, Steve Greenfield <alienrelics@...> wrote:
> This one looks decent (thanks, Stefan!) and has a free version so I'm going to quickly check it out.
>
> Target 3001
> http://server.ibfriedrich.com/wiki/ibfwikien/index.php?title=Main_Page
>
> Free version 250 Pins/Pads, 2 copper layers, 1.2m x 1.2m, 30 signals simulatable
> all functions active (Version V14.5.0.80, 2009-11-23).
>        * Schematic
>
>        * Simulation
>
>        * Layout
>
>        * Autorouter
>
>        * 3D-view
>
>        * Gerber data, Milling data
>
>        * Prototype
>
>        * Frontpanel
>  Steve Greenfield
> Electronic Engineering Technician student
> Electronic Technician 20+ years
> CET Computers and Consumer Electronics
> IPC-A-610D CIS Specialist
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

Stefan - will target import dxf or AutoCAD files?  That one looks like it might be interesting and 2 layers/250 pins will hold me a while.

I've used AutoCAD for industrial electrical/Instrument design for many years, but it's not the best for electronic PCB work.

Ken H>

You may want to look at this one:

http://www.diptrace.com/

I'd be interested in your evaluation.

On Sat, Feb 13, 2010 at 11:48 AM, Steve Greenfield <alienrelics@...>wrote:

>
>
> This one looks decent (thanks, Stefan!) and has a free version so I'm going
> to quickly check it out.
>
> Target 3001
> http://server.ibfriedrich.com/wiki/ibfwikien/index.php?title=Main_Page
>
> Free version 250 Pins/Pads, 2 copper layers, 1.2m x 1.2m, 30 signals
> simulatable
> all functions active (Version V14.5.0.80, 2009-11-23).
> * Schematic
>
> * Simulation
>
> * Layout
>
> * Autorouter
>
> * 3D-view
>
> * Gerber data, Milling data
>
> * Prototype
>
> * Frontpanel
> Steve Greenfield
> Electronic Engineering Technician student
> Electronic Technician 20+ years
> CET Computers and Consumer Electronics
> IPC-A-610D CIS Specialist
>
>  
>



-- 
Thank you,

Barry


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

It does DXF import/export although I have never used that myself.

Autocad is also one of those age old software products that do things
their way and to hell with everyone else. Maybe they should pair up
with Eagle. ;-)
If you are used to it you can deal with that, but I couldn't even make
a simple drawing. I make pretty much all of my mechanical drawings in
Target. Enough for front panels and such but of course not a proper
mechanical CAD system.

250 pins is really not much, I've hit that number regularly, but I
have a 800pin license.

To a large extent it's what you are used to. But some software is just
easier to get used to than others, and I think there is always a limit
to productivity you can reach, as in number of clicks or time it takes
to do something. With Eagle I find that to be pretty poor (example:
change a pad on a footprint).

ST

On Sat, Feb 13, 2010 at 6:36 PM, sailingto <sailingtoo@...> wrote:
> Stefan - will target import dxf or AutoCAD files?  That one looks like it might be interesting and 2 layers/250 pins will hold me a while.
>
> I've used AutoCAD for industrial electrical/Instrument design for many years, but it's not the best for electronic PCB work.
>
> Ken H>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

Stefan, have you ever used Kicad? I am curious how it compares to Eagle / Diptrace / Target. I have only ever used Kicad, and it has done everything I need, but I am very much still a beginner. Just wondering ...

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Stefan Trethan <stefan_trethan@...> wrote:

>
> It does DXF import/export although I have never used that myself.
> 
> Autocad is also one of those age old software products that do things
> their way and to hell with everyone else. Maybe they should pair up
> with Eagle. ;-)
> If you are used to it you can deal with that, but I couldn't even make
> a simple drawing. I make pretty much all of my mechanical drawings in
> Target. Enough for front panels and such but of course not a proper
> mechanical CAD system.
> 
> 250 pins is really not much, I've hit that number regularly, but I
> have a 800pin license.
> 
> To a large extent it's what you are used to. But some software is just
> easier to get used to than others, and I think there is always a limit
> to productivity you can reach, as in number of clicks or time it takes
> to do something. With Eagle I find that to be pretty poor (example:
> change a pad on a footprint).
> 
> ST
> 
> On Sat, Feb 13, 2010 at 6:36 PM, sailingto <sailingtoo@...> wrote:
> > Stefan - will target import dxf or AutoCAD files?  That one looks like it might be interesting and 2 layers/250 pins will hold me a while.
> >
> > I've used AutoCAD for industrial electrical/Instrument design for many years, but it's not the best for electronic PCB work.
> >
> > Ken H>
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

I have not used Kicad, or Diptrace for that matter (but may have
looked at it briefly).

One thing you must keep in mind is that only after real use can you
properly compare software.
If you try to compare a new package with something you have used for
many years it is not very fair.

Of course a particularly bad software with few features would stand
out, like comparing a tricycle to a car. But comparing similar cars
really reqires at least a good test drive (one project), to get a
useful assessment.

That disclaimer out of the way, I will lean far out of the window and
say that looking at the screenshots alone is seems to be one class
below Target and Eagle, which are in the same ballpark in terms of
features. (Mind that the Target/Eagle class is still tricycles in the
world of human transportation).

As long as it does everything you need, and you are not building a
base of designs and libraries for something of major importance (like
a business) there is no urgency to look for a replacement. If one of
the two conditions is met however I can only recommend to really put a
lot of time into selection, you _will_ pay for a bad choice.

ST

On Sat, Feb 13, 2010 at 10:42 PM, awakephd <a_wake@...> wrote:
> Stefan, have you ever used Kicad? I am curious how it compares to Eagle / Diptrace / Target. I have only ever used Kicad, and it has done everything I need, but I am very much still a beginner. Just wondering ...
>

I used diptrace for a while and it was pretty good.  Not sure why I quit using it - I think mostly because a buddy was already using PCBExpress and he wanted me to use that program so we could swap files....  I just don't remember.  I was a member of the diptrace yahoo group at the time. 

Maybe I'll have to look at it again.

Ken H.

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Barry Demers <sdad@...> wrote:

>
> You may want to look at this one:
> 
> http://www.diptrace.com/
> 
> I'd be interested in your evaluation.

I still use and LOVE OrCAD386 for DOS (yes...DOS).  Schematic
capture/pcb layout.  All of which can be found FREE in their Yahoo
group (dosorcad).  There is even an updated driver to run in windows,
dual monitors etc.

Also 4pcb.com offers a layout package.  Haven't tried it though.

...just my 2 cents worth.....

On 2/13/10, sailingto <sailingtoo@...> wrote:
> I used diptrace for a while and it was pretty good.  Not sure why I quit
> using it - I think mostly because a buddy was already using PCBExpress and
> he wanted me to use that program so we could swap files....  I just don't
> remember.  I was a member of the diptrace yahoo group at the time.
>
> Maybe I'll have to look at it again.
>
> Ken H.
>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Barry Demers <sdad@...> wrote:
>>
>> You may want to look at this one:
>>
>> http://www.diptrace.com/
>>
>> I'd be interested in your evaluation.
>
>
>


-- 
Paul Mateer, AA9GG
Elan Engineering Corp.
www.elanengr.com
NAQCC 3123, SKCC 4628, FPQRP 2003

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "sailingto" <sailingtoo@...> wrote:
>
> I used diptrace for a while and it was pretty good.  Not sure why I quit using it - I think mostly because a buddy was already using PCBExpress and he wanted me to use that program so we could swap files....  I just don't remember.  I was a member of the diptrace yahoo group at the time. 
> 
> Maybe I'll have to look at it again.
> 
> Ken H.
> 
>


I'm actually really liking ExpressPCB lately, although I do wish there was a utility to conveniently convert the output to more standard formats. Obviously they don't want you to do this but I'd have thought someone would figure it out by now. It works ok to just print out the stuff but I I don't know of a way to CNC drill boards made with it.

That's the one I started using, then had trouble making a male edge connector. I found it very easy to get started in, and it has not been bad to learn, I just have very little time to learn it in.

I'm actually back to using it now that I managed to hork an edge connector of my own.

Steve Greenfield

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Barry Demers <sdad@...> wrote:

>
> You may want to look at this one:
> 
> http://www.diptrace.com/
> 
> I'd be interested in your evaluation.
>

Yep, ExpressPCB seems to do everything I actually need for toner transfer except mirror the print, but since my printer will mirror it's not a problem. As of yet, I've not been able to get the schematic to tie to the PCB as it says it will do. I'm sure I've not done something correct - but many of my simple circuits I just do them on PCB without doing the schematic....  yea, I know, the schematic is ALWAYS the first thing to do.

I had been feeling guilty about not using Eagle since it seems lots of the files around are in Eagle, but each time I try to do the schematic...  just much harder than it should be for my simple mind.

Ken H>

-
> I'm actually really liking ExpressPCB lately, although I do wish >there was a utility to conveniently convert the output to more >standard formats. Obviously they don't want you to do this but I'd >have thought someone would figure it out by now. It works ok to just >print out the stuff but I I don't know of a way to CNC drill boards >made with it.
>