Homebrew PCBs

On Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 11:18 PM, Ken Stuempges<ozarkshermit@...> wrote:
> If air is good, can Ozone be better?
>
> I cobbled up a small Corona-type Ozone Generator, and am pumping Ozone into my etching solution, rather than plain air.  It would seem to me that that could be even better than straight Oxygen.  Unfortunately (for testing purposes), my etchant really does not require regeneration at this time, so I can't compare the results.
>
> Perhaps Mr Seychell could add some light.  I looked at his equation 4 from his excellent site
>
> [4]     2HCl {aq} + 2CuCl {aq} + O {aq} \u2192  2CuCl2 {aq}  + H2O{aq}
>
> and wonder what the result using Ozone would be ?
>
> I realize Ozone is highly reactive, and might affect my cheap air pump, as well as do something to the tubing - over time -
> Also wonder if any ill effects might result from this - reacting differently to the HCl perhaps . . .
>
> As you all can probably tell, I seem to have entirely too much time on my hands - but when your retired it is no problem.
> Just "thinking outside the box" again.
>
> Any comments?
>
> Ken
>
>

>
> I'm not familiar with ozone generation, but doesn't it just convert
> oxygen from air to ozone? Or do you think the ozone is more efficient
> in regeneration than plain air (with oxygen)?
> 
> ST
> 
> On Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 11:18 PM, Ken Stuempges<ozarkshermit@...> wrote:
> > If air is good, can Ozone be better?
> >
> > I cobbled up a small Corona-type Ozone Generator, and am pumping Ozone into my etching solution, rather than plain air.  It would seem to me that that could be even better than straight Oxygen.  Unfortunately (for testing purposes), my etchant really does not require regeneration at this time, so I can't compare the results.
> >
> > Perhaps Mr Seychell could add some light.  I looked at his equation 4 from his excellent site
> >
> > [4]     2HCl {aq} + 2CuCl {aq} + O {aq} \u2192  2CuCl2 {aq}  + H2O{aq}
> >
> > and wonder what the result using Ozone would be ?
> >
> > I realize Ozone is highly reactive, and might affect my cheap air pump, as well as do something to the tubing - over time -
> > Also wonder if any ill effects might result from this - reacting differently to the HCl perhaps . . .
> >
> > As you all can probably tell, I seem to have entirely too much time on my hands - but when your retired it is no problem.
> > Just "thinking outside the box" again.
> >
> > Any comments?
> >
> > Ken
> >
> >
>

From: "Ken Stuempges" <ozarkshermit@...>
To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 12:31 PM
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Yet another CuCl Regeneration Scheme




Yes - Ozone generation converts the oxygen in the air to ozone.  Since 
oxygen is O2 and ozone is O3, and highly reactive, (it wants to revert back 
to O2 and O )it would seem to me that it would be more efficient.
Generating ozone is super simple, you just need a high voltage transformer 
(like a neon sign transformer), and a glass tube or jar with foil or screen 
inside and out.  High voltage is applied to the two screens, and the 
resulting corona produces ozone - lots of it.  It does not make any more 
oxygen than was already in the air (aprox 21%), but the resulting highly 
reactive ozone might speed up the regen process.
I have no idea if it will be more efficient or not, just another idea in a 
long series of various ideas on regeneration.

For the faint of heart, it does use high voltage, and could hurt if your are 
not careful.

Do a google search on ozone generator plans - - lots of "pot-head doper" 
websites out there with plans- they use ozone to help grow their dope.


The ozone concentration will be very small, and the effect will probably be 
minimal.

Leon

From: "Ken Stuempges" <ozarkshermit@...>
To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 2:27 PM
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Yet another CuCl Regeneration Scheme


> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "leon Heller" <leon355@...> wrote:
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Ken Stuempges" <ozarkshermit@...>
>> To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
>> Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 12:31 PM
>> Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Yet another CuCl Regeneration Scheme
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Yes - Ozone generation converts the oxygen in the air to ozone.  Since
>> oxygen is O2 and ozone is O3, and highly reactive, (it wants to revert 
>> back
>> to O2 and O )it would seem to me that it would be more efficient.
>> Generating ozone is super simple, you just need a high voltage 
>> transformer
>> (like a neon sign transformer), and a glass tube or jar with foil or 
>> screen
>> inside and out.  High voltage is applied to the two screens, and the
>> resulting corona produces ozone - lots of it.  It does not make any more
>> oxygen than was already in the air (aprox 21%), but the resulting highly
>> reactive ozone might speed up the regen process.
>> I have no idea if it will be more efficient or not, just another idea in 
>> a
>> long series of various ideas on regeneration.
>>
>> For the faint of heart, it does use high voltage, and could hurt if your 
>> are
>> not careful.
>>
>> Do a google search on ozone generator plans - - lots of "pot-head doper"
>> websites out there with plans- they use ozone to help grow their dope.
>>
>>
>> The ozone concentration will be very small, and the effect will probably 
>> be
>> minimal.
>>
>> Leon
>>
>
> What method did you use when you made ozone?  I wonder since the 
> concentration using corona discharge is quite large, although I do not 
> know about the effect in regeneration..

What is the concentration?

Leon

>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Ken Stuempges" <ozarkshermit@...>
> To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 2:27 PM
> Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Yet another CuCl Regeneration Scheme
> 
> 
> > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "leon Heller" <leon355@> wrote:
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message ----- 
> >> From: "Ken Stuempges" <ozarkshermit@>
> >> To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
> >> Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 12:31 PM
> >> Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Yet another CuCl Regeneration Scheme
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Yes - Ozone generation converts the oxygen in the air to ozone.  Since
> >> oxygen is O2 and ozone is O3, and highly reactive, (it wants to revert 
> >> back
> >> to O2 and O )it would seem to me that it would be more efficient.
> >> Generating ozone is super simple, you just need a high voltage 
> >> transformer
> >> (like a neon sign transformer), and a glass tube or jar with foil or 
> >> screen
> >> inside and out.  High voltage is applied to the two screens, and the
> >> resulting corona produces ozone - lots of it.  It does not make any more
> >> oxygen than was already in the air (aprox 21%), but the resulting highly
> >> reactive ozone might speed up the regen process.
> >> I have no idea if it will be more efficient or not, just another idea in 
> >> a
> >> long series of various ideas on regeneration.
> >>
> >> For the faint of heart, it does use high voltage, and could hurt if your 
> >> are
> >> not careful.
> >>
> >> Do a google search on ozone generator plans - - lots of "pot-head doper"
> >> websites out there with plans- they use ozone to help grow their dope.
> >>
> >>
> >> The ozone concentration will be very small, and the effect will probably 
> >> be
> >> minimal.
> >>
> >> Leon
> >>
> >
> > What method did you use when you made ozone?  I wonder since the 
> > concentration using corona discharge is quite large, although I do not 
> > know about the effect in regeneration..
> 
> What is the concentration?
> 
> Leon
>

On Wed, Jul 15, 2009 at 4:10 PM, Ken Stuempges<ozarkshermit@...> wrote:
> I have absolutely no idea what the concentration is.  What was your experience ?  (concentration I mean)
>
> I have the generator and air pump enclosed in an (almost) airtight container, with enough leakage so the ozone pumped out will be replaced by outside air, to be converted into more ozone.
>
> The concentration is enough that I can still smell the ozone coming out of of my etchant tank, after being bubbled in by very tiny bubbles.
>
> After a short time I can smell the ozone through out the room.
>
> Ken
>

>
> I think you can smell very low concentrations of ozone (while we are
> at throwing about vague statements without any numbers I might as well
> join in.)
> 
> ST
> 
> On Wed, Jul 15, 2009 at 4:10 PM, Ken Stuempges<ozarkshermit@...> wrote:
> > I have absolutely no idea what the concentration is.  What was your experience ?  (concentration I mean)
> >
> > I have the generator and air pump enclosed in an (almost) airtight container, with enough leakage so the ozone pumped out will be replaced by outside air, to be converted into more ozone.
> >
> > The concentration is enough that I can still smell the ozone coming out of of my etchant tank, after being bubbled in by very tiny bubbles.
> >
> > After a short time I can smell the ozone through out the room.
> >
> > Ken
> >
>

From: "Ken Stuempges" <ozarkshermit@...>
To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 3:10 PM
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Yet another CuCl Regeneration Scheme


>I have absolutely no idea what the concentration is.  What was your 
>experience ?  (concentration I mean)
>
> I have the generator and air pump enclosed in an (almost) airtight 
> container, with enough leakage so the ozone pumped out will be replaced by 
> outside air, to be converted into more ozone.
>
> The concentration is enough that I can still smell the ozone coming out of 
> of my etchant tank, after being bubbled in by very tiny bubbles.
>
> After a short time I can smell the ozone through out the room.

I've never tried it. It's probably quite low, which is why I said that it 
might be ineffective. If you can smell it coming out of the etchant, it 
doesn't look like much of it is getting into the solution.

Leon

On Wed, Jul 15, 2009 at 4:23 PM, Ken Stuempges<ozarkshermit@...> wrote:
> OK  OK  OK
> Enough already.  Based on everyone's vast experience, it won't work, will never work, can't possibly work.
> I will cease posting anything further regarding this topic, or any other ideas, failures, or successes I might have, and go back to lurking.
>
> Ken
>

On Wed, Jul 15, 2009 at 4:26 PM, leon Heller<leon355@...> wrote:
> If you can smell it coming out of the etchant, it
> doesn't look like much of it is getting into the solution.
>
> Leon
>
>

From: Stefan Trethan <stefan_trethan@...>
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Yet another CuCl Regeneration Scheme
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, July 15, 2009, 11:31 AM











    
            
            


      
      Yes, but how much of the oxygen is coming out too? I bet there is

little difference between the air that goes in and comes out, even

with nice small bubbles.



ST



On Wed, Jul 15, 2009 at 4:26 PM, leon Heller<leon355@btinternet. com> wrote:

> If you can smell it coming out of the etchant, it

> doesn't look like much of it is getting into the solution.

>

> Leon

>

>


 

      

    
    
	
	 
	
	








	


	
	


      

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