Homebrew PCBs

I found this group a few days ago and have been poking around --
thanks for the tremendous resource! The information here has already
helped me to make my most recent PCB. I was not trying for anything
too difficult -- the smallest trace is .025" -- and it did come out
with a little pitting in the larger traces. But all in all I am very
pleased indeed. Here are some pics, first of the copper side and then
of the component side (not yet drilled):

http://home.earthlink.net/~a_wake/PCB1.JPG
http://home.earthlink.net/~a_wake/PCB2.JPG

Here's what I used to make the board:

* Kicad to develop the schematic and generate the artwork;
* Toner transfer -- printed on an HP P2015dn laser onto pages from an
old Harbor Freight catalog, then ironed onto the board
* Cupric chloride to etch (well, really hydrochloric acid + hydrogen
peroxide; NOW I have cupric chloride!)

This is the second board I have made in the last couple of weeks, both
using toner transfer, but the first using CuCl. The first time I used
the cover pages from the HF catalog, and it was very easy to soak the
paper off (but I also lifted a bit of the toner -- don't know if I
didn't iron enough, or hurried too much to get the paper off, or ???
This time I used "inside" pages from the HF catalog, which are a
little less slick, and it was much, much harder to soak the paper off
-- but the toner really seemed to be stuck down well, and overall the
result appears to be better.

FWIW, before the last couple of weeks, it had been 25+ years since I
made a PCB, and then I used just a resist ink pen. So not quite a
complete novice, but pretty close!

Finally -- if you have stuck with this lengthy intro this long! -- a
question: On the previous board that I made using TT, I drilled it and
then ironed on the "silk screen" toner -- which interfered a bit with
soldering on the component side. I'm thinking it would be better to
tin all the traces before ironing on the "silk screen"  toner -- yes?
no? But I don't have a way to add tinning other than using the
soldering iron and solder. Is this an acceptable (though tedious) way
to tin a board?

Thanks again for all the helpful information!

Andy

You can buy "liquid tin" or other chemical tinners where you just soak
the board in the chemical and it tins any exposed copper.

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "awakephd" <a_wake@...> wrote:
>

> no? But I don't have a way to add tinning other than using the
> soldering iron and solder. Is this an acceptable (though tedious) way
> to tin a board?


Hi Andy, the boards look pretty good. I started using toner transfer
about a year ago after stumbling on this group. I had tried it before
over 10 years ago with poor results. After reading here I tried it
again and I am amazed at how well it works and without the expensive
paper. I use Hammermill's laser gloss stuff (cheap office gloss paper)
and an cheap iron set on high. Works great every time, almost as good
as the photo method and way easier. I don't point to point wire
anything anymore. Many thanks to all who support this group!

As for tinning, I have the best luck with solder myself. Yes it's
acceptable and it works very well. I take a little flux paste (Kester
44) and smear it over the board. Then I tin a larger tip on the iron
and smear the board with it (using the side of the tip). It works
great , especially on smaller boards. 
Phil (KA0HBG)

I am a new member also. Hello folks!

I got an idea. Can it be possible to make a "PCB" by cutting narrow strips from an aluminium ( or even better, copper) adhesive tape and fixing them on any non-leading surface, that would be strong enough to make a substitude-PCBoard?

I think, that aluminium or copper tape would be suitable to be used as a connective means between components... Some kind of thin plywood or plastic or even strong cardboard might be a suitable and very well working material... As a drill one could use very sharp-edged small scissors or even a very sharp awl. I continually "drill" holes into aluminium sheet with small scissors (and bigger scissors, if I want to make larger holes). Ofcourse I use one of my 2 (old) electrical drills, if I have to make a lot of holes, but not at night-time, to let my dear wife sleep.


I once made a PCB using the most difficult way. I took a sheet of copper covered pertinax (?) board and cut away parts of the copper cover in-between the "wires". I still have this homebrew PCB inside one of my 4 SELENA receivers, which dont have all of the tropical bands. It works, although it is not very good looking, if one uses a multifying loop!

Both of these ways are for a hobbyist with a low budjet, but having a lot of time and some initiative... Very noticeable sums of money and effort is spared, but a lot of satisfaction gained! ( Depending ofcourse on, how many different PCBs will be made during years.)

( I was working for many years ago in a big enterprise, where I had means to develop fotographs  and use both a camera and suitable chemicals to produce PCBs, but those times are gone.)

I think, that Im going to put this permanently into my not-so-small archive of over 40 x 100 pages of printed material mostly from Yahoo!-groups. My main problem is only to find it from there, when needed. (HI!) Bad, very bad memory!

Best regards to all of you!

Aimo/Ami/Amigo, 71 years, a retired Finnish draftsman/architectural designer/record-keeper/copist, etc. etc.  living in sunny Spain.




________________________________
De: awakephd <a_wake@...>
Para: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Enviado: viernes, 20 de febrero, 2009 4:31:35
Asunto: [Homebrew_PCBs] New member checking in


I found this group a few days ago and have been poking around --
thanks for the tremendous resource! The information here has already
helped me to make my most recent PCB. I was not trying for anything
too difficult -- the smallest trace is .025" -- and it did come out
with a little pitting in the larger traces. But all in all I am very
pleased indeed. Here are some pics, first of the copper side and then
of the component side (not yet drilled):

http://home. earthlink. net/~a_wake/ PCB1.JPG
http://home. earthlink. net/~a_wake/ PCB2.JPG

Here's what I used to make the board:

* Kicad to develop the schematic and generate the artwork;
* Toner transfer -- printed on an HP P2015dn laser onto pages from an
old Harbor Freight catalog, then ironed onto the board
* Cupric chloride to etch (well, really hydrochloric acid + hydrogen
peroxide; NOW I have cupric chloride!)

This is the second board I have made in the last couple of weeks, both
using toner transfer, but the first using CuCl. The first time I used
the cover pages from the HF catalog, and it was very easy to soak the
paper off (but I also lifted a bit of the toner -- don't know if I
didn't iron enough, or hurried too much to get the paper off, or ???
This time I used "inside" pages from the HF catalog, which are a
little less slick, and it was much, much harder to soak the paper off
-- but the toner really seemed to be stuck down well, and overall the
result appears to be better.

FWIW, before the last couple of weeks, it had been 25+ years since I
made a PCB, and then I used just a resist ink pen. So not quite a
complete novice, but pretty close!

Finally -- if you have stuck with this lengthy intro this long! -- a
question: On the previous board that I made using TT, I drilled it and
then ironed on the "silk screen" toner -- which interfered a bit with
soldering on the component side. I'm thinking it would be better to
tin all the traces before ironing on the "silk screen"  toner -- yes?
no? But I don't have a way to add tinning other than using the
soldering iron and solder. Is this an acceptable (though tedious) way
to tin a board?

Thanks again for all the helpful information!

Andy


   


      

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Yes I think its possible, although difficult for fine detailed work.

I like the idea of 'Manhattan style' construction. I've never tried
it, but it seems to be popular with radio enthusiasts. No etching
involved! Here is an example (there are many more examples on this
site):

http://www.k8iqy.com/qrprigs/2n230/2n230pictures.htm

>
> I got an idea. Can it be possible to make a "PCB" by cutting narrow strips
> from an aluminium ( or even better, copper) adhesive tape and fixing them on
> any non-leading surface, that would be strong enough to make a
> substitude-PCBoard?

Many Many years ago, I think there was a product called "Circuit stik" or something which came with rolls of copper tape to make traces and adhesive pads etc.

I used it and the biggest problem was the adhesive and the heat from the soldering iron.  The pads kept lifting while you soldered to it.  If you glued it with epoxy, it was fine.  Nothing fancy though.

There is some circuit repair systems out there that use the same sort of system.

--- On Fri, 2/20/09, James Bishop <bishopaj@...> wrote:

From: James Bishop <bishopaj@...>
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] New member checking in
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, February 20, 2009, 11:03 PM











    
            Yes I think its possible, although difficult for fine detailed work.



I like the idea of 'Manhattan style' construction. I've never tried

it, but it seems to be popular with radio enthusiasts. No etching

involved! Here is an example (there are many more examples on this

site):



http://www.k8iqy. com/qrprigs/ 2n230/2n230pictu res.htm



>

> I got an idea. Can it be possible to make a "PCB" by cutting narrow strips

> from an aluminium ( or even better, copper) adhesive tape and fixing them on

> any non-leading surface, that would be strong enough to make a

> substitude-PCBoard?


 

      

    
    
	
	 
	
	








	


	
	


      

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, aimo ruoho <aimounto@...> wrote:
>
> Both of these ways are for a hobbyist with a low budjet, but having
a lot of time and some initiative... Very noticeable sums of money and
effort is spared, but a lot of satisfaction gained! ( Depending
ofcourse on, how many different PCBs will be made during years.)
>
Aimo, you've just described me: a hobbyist with a low budget! For me,
though, the most expensive part of the equation is the copper clad
board itself -- and that was not very expensive. I already have a
laser printer, so the cost of doing toner transfer is nearly zero,
especially since I used pages out of a catalog as the transfer medium.
For the etchant, I mixed 1 part of 31% hydrochloric acid (sold
commonly in hardware stores as muriatic acid, used for adjusting
swimming pool ph and for cleaning bricks/etching concrete) to 2 parts
of 3% hydrogen peroxide (available at any drugstore or supermarket as
an antiseptic). The muriatic acid cost $5 for a gallon (the smallest
quantity I could find around here), and the peroxide was just over $1
for a quart. Based on this first use, I'd say the gallon of acid will
last me the rest of my life.

For software, I used a free program called Kicad, which is available
for Linux and for Windows.

So, for around $10 total investment, I made a reasonably nice quality
board, double sided, with "silk screen" (actually toner, but it does
the job) -- and I can make a whole bunch more boards without spending
anything except for buying the blank boards.

Can you get muriatic acid and hydrogen peroxide easily in Spain? If
so, this is certainly a very cheap way to make a board; I'd be
surprised if it weren't as cheap -- or maybe even cheaper -- than
getting copper tape!

On 21/02/2009, at 2:27 AM, pgdion1 wrote:
> As for tinning, I have the best luck with solder myself. Yes it's
> acceptable and it works very well. I take a little flux paste (Kester
> 44) and smear it over the board. Then I tin a larger tip on the iron
> and smear the board with it (using the side of the tip). It works
> great , especially on smaller boards.
> Phil (KA0HBG)
>
I've taken to leaving the toner on the parts I'm not going to solder -  
as a "solder mask" of sorts. Means I only have to tin the pads which  
are going to need it at some point anyway ..

PG

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Piers Goodhew <piers@...> wrote:
> I've taken to leaving the toner on the parts I'm not going to solder -  
> as a "solder mask" of sorts. Means I only have to tin the pads which  
> are going to need it at some point anyway ..


Piers, how do you get the toner off selectively? Do you use a Q-tip
(cotton swab) or something like that? I removed the toner with acetone
on a paper towel both times that I've done TT -- works great, but not
very selectively!

As a follow up, I hand-tinned all the traces and pads with solder. It
worked, but was a royal pain and wasted a whole lot of solder and
desoldering braid. I don't think I'll do it this way again.

However, the final product came out pretty well. Once I identified the
diode that I put in backwards (foolishly, since it was clearly marked
on the "silk screen" layer!), it works flawlessly. Now I'm in the
process of making a box and mounting it with the associated switches, etc.

Andy

On 23/02/2009, at 2:22 AM, awakephd wrote:
> Piers, how do you get the toner off selectively? Do you use a Q-tip
> (cotton swab) or something like that? I removed the toner with acetone
> on a paper towel both times that I've done TT -- works great, but not
> very selectively!
>
Yup, Q-tip clone, so it's still plenty of work (but I know the "mask"  
coverage is pretty perfect). I then tin the pads fairly generously and  
*then* drill, using the solder to guide the drill. Disclaimer: I've  
made 4PCBs ever.

PG

I think the trick here is to flux the whole board, I use just a little
paste flux and smear it over the whole board with my finger, and then
just a little solder like a well tinned tip on and iron or a little
puddle on the board that can be smeared around. It takes a very small
amount, just enough to wet the traces. They should look like silver
traces if done right with no lumps or puddles on them. Less is more
here. Laying the tip sideways on the board covers a larger area pretty
quickly. The paste RA flux works ideal if you can still find it.  I do
this on all my boards right now and it works well even on the SMD
stuff with TQFP chips on them.

I think this is probably a step down from tin plating but I read mixed
results on that method.

- Phil (KA0HBG)


-

> 
> As a follow up, I hand-tinned all the traces and pads with solder. It
> worked, but was a royal pain and wasted a whole lot of solder and
> desoldering braid. I don't think I'll do it this way again.
>

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "pgdion1" <pgdion1@...> wrote:
>
> I think the trick here is to flux the whole board, I use just a little
> paste flux and smear it over the whole board with my finger, and then
> just a little solder like a well tinned tip on and iron or a little
> puddle on the board that can be smeared around. It takes a very small
> amount, just enough to wet the traces. They should look like silver
> traces if done right with no lumps or puddles on them. Less is more
> here. Laying the tip sideways on the board covers a larger area pretty
> quickly. The paste RA flux works ideal if you can still find it.  I do
> this on all my boards right now and it works well even on the SMD
> stuff with TQFP chips on them.
> 
> I think this is probably a step down from tin plating but I read mixed
> results on that method.
> 
> - Phil (KA0HBG)
> 

Okay, I'll have to get some paste flux. I noticed that Radio Shack
sells a tin of paste rosin flux -- would that be suitable?

Many people swear by plain rosin flux, me included.
It's pretty inert so can be left on the boards.

To apply it to a board you can dissolve the rosin in some ethanol or
IPA rubbing alcohol. Put it in a bottle with a dropper cap or brush
cap.
For tinning wires and stuff I just hold the wire against a chunk of
rosin and heat with the iron.

Since rosin comes pretty much straight from the trees it is dirt cheap.

ST

On Mon, Feb 23, 2009 at 7:01 PM, awakephd <a_wake@...> wrote:
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "pgdion1" <pgdion1@...> wrote:

> Okay, I'll have to get some paste flux. I noticed that Radio Shack
> sells a tin of paste rosin flux -- would that be suitable?
>

I use a flux pen instead of paste usually, its like a felt-tipped
marker, very easy to use.

Speaking of flux - does anyone know of an easy way to remove the
residue? Is there a household chemical that will dissolve it?

>> I think the trick here is to flux the whole board, I use just a little
>> paste flux and smear it over the whole board with my finger, and then
>> just a little solder like a well tinned tip on and iron or a little
>> puddle on the board that can be smeared around. It takes a very small
>> amount, just enough to wet the traces. They should look like silver
>> traces if done right with no lumps or puddles on them. Less is more
>> here. Laying the tip sideways on the board covers a larger area pretty
>> quickly. The paste RA flux works ideal if you can still find it. I do
>> this on all my boards right now and it works well even on the SMD
>> stuff with TQFP chips on them.
>>
>> I think this is probably a step down from tin plating but I read mixed
>> results on that method.
>>
>> - Phil (KA0HBG)
>>
>
> Okay, I'll have to get some paste flux. I noticed that Radio Shack
> sells a tin of paste rosin flux -- would that be suitable?

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, James Bishop <bishopaj@...> wrote:
>
> I use a flux pen instead of paste usually, its like a felt-tipped
> marker, very easy to use.
> 
> Speaking of flux - does anyone know of an easy way to remove the
> residue? Is there a household chemical that will dissolve it?
> 

Acetone takes the flux I've been using right off. Of course, it also
takes any toner "silk screen" right off too. :)

> 
> Okay, I'll have to get some paste flux. I noticed that Radio Shack
> sells a tin of paste rosin flux -- would that be suitable?
>

Wow, I forgot about radio shack.  That looks like it might be the same
stuff. The Kester 44 is hard to find but it's a Rosin RA flux and came
in a 2oz plastic can like that. One can lasts forever (as long as your
colleagues don't use it as tip cleaner ;-) ).

- phil 

btw - it does make for a sticky board when your done but it cleans up
well with just some 90%+ alcohol.

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, James Bishop <bishopaj@...> wrote:
>
> I use a flux pen instead of paste usually, its like a felt-tipped
> marker, very easy to use.
> 
> Speaking of flux - does anyone know of an easy way to remove the
> residue? Is there a household chemical that will dissolve it?
> 

When I had solder training (oh, 15+ years ago?) we used alcohol. We
used Flux Off or a Freon wash before that but when Freon was banned we
moved to alcohol. Not as effective as Freon but it does a good job. To
clean a board (like after I tinned it) just alcohol on a paper towel
does good. To clean after parts are mounted, take a flux brush, cut
the bristles down a little (maybe to 3/8") and scrub the parts with a
alcohol soaked brush, blot with a paper towel, rinse with a little
more alcohol and blot or air spray dry. A little messy but it works
well and it's what is usually used for the RA and RMA fluxes. 

- phil

The alcohol won't do anything to the toner transfer component legend either.

Most of the time i don't bother with removing the flux. If it isn't
too messy i don't mind.

I tried one of those water based flux removers that come in a spray
can (kinda like shaving foam). Even with _heavy_ scrubbing with the
brush it did not remove rosin flux. Maybe they are OK for water
soluble fluxes. Made it worse really since the surface of the rosin
became dull and white instead of clear.

Acetone is the same, it does not solve rosin the same way alcohol
does, so the surface will dry gritty. If you use acetone, you need to
get positively all rosin off without a trace left, with alcohol that's
not the case.

ST

On Tue, Feb 24, 2009 at 5:20 PM, pgdion1 <pgdion1@...> wrote:

> When I had solder training (oh, 15+ years ago?) we used alcohol. We
> used Flux Off or a Freon wash before that but when Freon was banned we
> moved to alcohol. Not as effective as Freon but it does a good job. To
> clean a board (like after I tinned it) just alcohol on a paper towel
> does good. To clean after parts are mounted, take a flux brush, cut
> the bristles down a little (maybe to 3/8") and scrub the parts with a
> alcohol soaked brush, blot with a paper towel, rinse with a little
> more alcohol and blot or air spray dry. A little messy but it works
> well and it's what is usually used for the RA and RMA fluxes.
>
> - phil
>

Stefan Trethan wrote:
> The alcohol won't do anything to the toner transfer component legend either.
> 
> Most of the time i don't bother with removing the flux. If it isn't
> too messy i don't mind.
> 
> I tried one of those water based flux removers that come in a spray
> can (kinda like shaving foam). Even with _heavy_ scrubbing with the
> brush it did not remove rosin flux.

I have water-based stuff called "safewash 2000" that works really well
in concentrated form from a bottle. The spray-can foamy version of it
is much weaker.

 > Maybe they are OK for water
> soluble fluxes. Made it worse really since the surface of the rosin
> became dull and white instead of clear.
> 
> Acetone is the same, it does not solve rosin the same way alcohol
> does, so the surface will dry gritty. If you use acetone, you need to
> get positively all rosin off without a trace left, with alcohol that's
> not the case.

Seems like I bought the wrong thing again.
Will the concentrated stuff deal with rosin flux?

Do you rinse the boards with de-ionised water or just tap water?

ST

On Tue, Feb 24, 2009 at 11:34 PM, Russell Shaw <rjshaw@...> wrote:
>
> I have water-based stuff called "safewash 2000" that works really well
> in concentrated form from a bottle. The spray-can foamy version of it
> is much weaker.
>