Homebrew PCBs

Hello,

I'm wondering if anyone has used a HP P1005 or P1006 LaserJet printer
for PCB toner transfer. It is currently possible to pick up a P1005
for $54 (after $30 cashback) in Australia, which makes it very
affordable.

I currently have a Brother HL-2040. I am getting very patchy results
and I have read plenty of accounts from people who have had trouble
with using Brother printers for toner transfer.

As such, I'm interested to know if the P1005 is likely to yield better results.

Best wishes,

Luc

I just returned a Brother HL-2040 and replaced it with a HP P1005
(today actually!). i spent about 30 hours trying to get a decent
layout with the HL-2040, it cant be done. i tried every magazine in
the house along with a large array of varying photo papers. I even
went to the extreme of going to the newsagent and buying a couple of
magazines of varying gloss/thickness etc. 

I finally came to the conclusion when i tried using PnP blue which
produced worse results than the 30+ different paper types that the
brother cant produce any kind of usable PCB's. In fact the tectronix
website even states that some new model brother lasers are having this
problem with PnP Blue. I think it has something to do with some
brother toners, and the fact it has to be heated much higher than
other toners to bond. 

Any way, the place i got it from (officeworks, AU) has a 7 day
satisfaction gurantee, i took it back with 2 days to spare and got a
no questions asked refund (awesome). I got the HP P1005 straight away.
And after a week of ironing/sandwich pressing about 100+ prints that
didnt work, the first one i made on the P1005 was a perfect print. you
could imagine my elation!

One thing i will note about the P1005, and this is only in comparison
to a large size office grade Canon laser printer/copier is that the
toner in the P1005 does not require as high a heat setting on your
iron when you are transferring. i use a medium-high setting for the
P1005, whereas with the canon i had the iron on flat out as any lower
would produce unsatisfactory results. 

Hope this helps.  






--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Luc Small" <luc.small@...> wrote:
>
> Hello,
> 
> I'm wondering if anyone has used a HP P1005 or P1006 LaserJet printer
> for PCB toner transfer. It is currently possible to pick up a P1005
> for $54 (after $30 cashback) in Australia, which makes it very
> affordable.
> 
> I currently have a Brother HL-2040. I am getting very patchy results
> and I have read plenty of accounts from people who have had trouble
> with using Brother printers for toner transfer.
> 
> As such, I'm interested to know if the P1005 is likely to yield
better results.

> 
> Best wishes,
> 
> Luc
>

There are many different toner chemistries. Manufacturers keep learning how
to make them cheaper and sell for more money.

The same problem shows up with "refill" toner packages. These toners  are
"compatible" but not necesarily identical. but for the $$ savings they are
worth trying.

I was buyng toner refils from one vendor and changed to another. I couldnt
get a good print until I cleaned out the cartridge and repalced it
completely with the new toner.

The trick is to find something that works foir you and stick with it.

Myc

On Sun, Jul 27, 2008 at 10:21 AM, chilliismyweakness
<couchman74@...>wrote:

>   I just returned a Brother HL-2040 and replaced it with a HP P1005
> (today actually!). i spent about 30 hours trying to get a decent
> layout with the HL-2040, it cant be done. i tried every magazine in
> the house along with a large array of varying photo papers. I even
> went to the extreme of going to the newsagent and buying a couple of
> magazines of varying gloss/thickness etc.
>
> I finally came to the conclusion when i tried using PnP blue which
> produced worse results than the 30+ different paper types that the
> brother cant produce any kind of usable PCB's. In fact the tectronix
> website even states that some new model brother lasers are having this
> problem with PnP Blue. I think it has something to do with some
> brother toners, and the fact it has to be heated much higher than
> other toners to bond.
>
> Any way, the place i got it from (officeworks, AU) has a 7 day
> satisfaction gurantee, i took it back with 2 days to spare and got a
> no questions asked refund (awesome). I got the HP P1005 straight away.
> And after a week of ironing/sandwich pressing about 100+ prints that
> didnt work, the first one i made on the P1005 was a perfect print. you
> could imagine my elation!
>
> One thing i will note about the P1005, and this is only in comparison
> to a large size office grade Canon laser printer/copier is that the
> toner in the P1005 does not require as high a heat setting on your
> iron when you are transferring. i use a medium-high setting for the
> P1005, whereas with the canon i had the iron on flat out as any lower
> would produce unsatisfactory results.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com <Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com>,
> "Luc Small" <luc.small@...> wrote:
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> > I'm wondering if anyone has used a HP P1005 or P1006 LaserJet printer
> > for PCB toner transfer. It is currently possible to pick up a P1005
> > for $54 (after $30 cashback) in Australia, which makes it very
> > affordable.
> >
> > I currently have a Brother HL-2040. I am getting very patchy results
> > and I have read plenty of accounts from people who have had trouble
> > with using Brother printers for toner transfer.
> >
> > As such, I'm interested to know if the P1005 is likely to yield
> better results.
> >
> > Best wishes,
> >
> > Luc
> >
>
> 
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello,

Many thanks to Chilliismyweakness and Myc for your very helpful
replies. It's good to get confirmation that it's not just me that has
problems with the Brother toner. It's also good to hear that the HP
P1005 model works well.

As it should turn out, I opted to get a HP 1020 printer instead of the
newer P1005 model. I found some testimonials on this list and/or on
the web that the HP 1020 was good for toner transfer. Fortunately, a
nearby Dick Smith Electronics had a couple left in stock for $59 each.
The price was right, so I snapped one up.

Just as was the case for Chilliismyweakness, I enjoyed success on my
very first try with the HP 1020. What a relief that was after
countless tries with my Brother 2040 laser printer.

For what it's worth, I took the following steps:

1. I printed my PCB design (using the HP 1020 printer) onto a piece of
magazine paper. For the benefit of those reader's in NSW/ACT AU, I
used the Open Road (the NRMA's newsletter). This is quite thin, shiny,
smooth paper. I used sticky tape to affix the magazine paper to a
standard piece of A4 paper. Only one piece of tape was required, along
the leading edge of the magazine paper. I then printed on the A4
paper/magazine as if it was an ordinary piece of paper.

2. I cleaned my blank PCB very well using a scourer and some Jif.
After rinsing the board clean, I cleaned it with a soft cloth and
isopropyl alcohol. I then dried the board.

3. I heated up my unmodified GBC Creative Laminator (also available
from Dick Smith Electronics/F1424/$40). I then ran the blank PCB
through it (copper-side up) to make sure it was really dry and to warm
it up a bit (to help the toner 'take' quicker).

4. I then put the printed PCB paper face down on the PCB and ran the
board/paper copper-side up through the laminator. I repeated this 8
times. By the second pass through the laminator, the toner was
starting to fuse with the board (so the paper no longer moved or
slipped).

5. Finally, I put the board into lukewarm water. Very quickly the
paper began to disintegrate. After 10 minutes of soaking, I rubbed off
the paper with my fingers until the fused toner was visible.

The results were outstanding. The toner was really well fused to the
board - indeed, I was surprised by just how resilient it was.

A couple refinements to the process have come to mind. I plan to try
these out when I get the chance:

A. Experimenting with how many passes through the laminator are
enough. Eight passes gets a little tedious, and who knows, 4 might do
the trick. Determining the optimal number will require some trial and
error and some patience.  (I might also modify the laminator to slow
it down at some point, allowing the transfer to be done in a single
pass).

B. Using a little Kapton tape to hold the pattern (magazine paper) in
place on the blank PCB. This, in particular, would make feeding small
boards through the laminator a lot easier. The Kapton tape should
easily withstand the temperature of the laminator.

I hope this information proves helpful to someone, and many thanks
again to those who replied to my original post.

Best wishes,

Luc

Hi Luc,

I'm glad to hear you found a combination that works for you.

Instead of the Kapton taoe, try using Avery or Dennison labels that are made
fo a laser printer. The adhesive is formulated to "survive" the  fusing
temps. Works for me.

Myc

On Mon, Jul 28, 2008 at 1:54 AM, Luc Small <luc.small@...> wrote:

>   Hello,
>
> Many thanks to Chilliismyweakness and Myc for your very helpful
> replies. It's good to get confirmation that it's not just me that has
> problems with the Brother toner. It's also good to hear that the HP
> P1005 model works well.
>
> As it should turn out, I opted to get a HP 1020 printer instead of the
> newer P1005 model. I found some testimonials on this list and/or on
> the web that the HP 1020 was good for toner transfer. Fortunately, a
> nearby Dick Smith Electronics had a couple left in stock for $59 each.
> The price was right, so I snapped one up.
>
> Just as was the case for Chilliismyweakness, I enjoyed success on my
> very first try with the HP 1020. What a relief that was after
> countless tries with my Brother 2040 laser printer.
>
> For what it's worth, I took the following steps:
>
> 1. I printed my PCB design (using the HP 1020 printer) onto a piece of
> magazine paper. For the benefit of those reader's in NSW/ACT AU, I
> used the Open Road (the NRMA's newsletter). This is quite thin, shiny,
> smooth paper. I used sticky tape to affix the magazine paper to a
> standard piece of A4 paper. Only one piece of tape was required, along
> the leading edge of the magazine paper. I then printed on the A4
> paper/magazine as if it was an ordinary piece of paper.
>
> 2. I cleaned my blank PCB very well using a scourer and some Jif.
> After rinsing the board clean, I cleaned it with a soft cloth and
> isopropyl alcohol. I then dried the board.
>
> 3. I heated up my unmodified GBC Creative Laminator (also available
> from Dick Smith Electronics/F1424/$40). I then ran the blank PCB
> through it (copper-side up) to make sure it was really dry and to warm
> it up a bit (to help the toner 'take' quicker).
>
> 4. I then put the printed PCB paper face down on the PCB and ran the
> board/paper copper-side up through the laminator. I repeated this 8
> times. By the second pass through the laminator, the toner was
> starting to fuse with the board (so the paper no longer moved or
> slipped).
>
> 5. Finally, I put the board into lukewarm water. Very quickly the
> paper began to disintegrate. After 10 minutes of soaking, I rubbed off
> the paper with my fingers until the fused toner was visible.
>
> The results were outstanding. The toner was really well fused to the
> board - indeed, I was surprised by just how resilient it was.
>
> A couple refinements to the process have come to mind. I plan to try
> these out when I get the chance:
>
> A. Experimenting with how many passes through the laminator are
> enough. Eight passes gets a little tedious, and who knows, 4 might do
> the trick. Determining the optimal number will require some trial and
> error and some patience. (I might also modify the laminator to slow
> it down at some point, allowing the transfer to be done in a single
> pass).
>
> B. Using a little Kapton tape to hold the pattern (magazine paper) in
> place on the blank PCB. This, in particular, would make feeding small
> boards through the laminator a lot easier. The Kapton tape should
> easily withstand the temperature of the laminator.
>
> I hope this information proves helpful to someone, and many thanks
> again to those who replied to my original post.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Luc
> 
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

HA, the open road!. its gold for prints, it beat cosmo, the foxtel
magazine, womens weekly, FHM and all the other titty mags i had lying
around. 

I thank the person who lived here before me for not getting their mail
redirected, thus giving me a stack of open road magazines and
therefore leaving me with a lifetimes worth of pcb print stock. 

Luc, out of curiosity, what laminator are you using and where did you
source it? would you recomend it?


--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Luc Small" <luc.small@...> wrote:

>
> Hello,
> 
> Many thanks to Chilliismyweakness and Myc for your very helpful
> replies. It's good to get confirmation that it's not just me that has
> problems with the Brother toner. It's also good to hear that the HP
> P1005 model works well.
> 
> As it should turn out, I opted to get a HP 1020 printer instead of the
> newer P1005 model. I found some testimonials on this list and/or on
> the web that the HP 1020 was good for toner transfer. Fortunately, a
> nearby Dick Smith Electronics had a couple left in stock for $59 each.
> The price was right, so I snapped one up.
> 
> Just as was the case for Chilliismyweakness, I enjoyed success on my
> very first try with the HP 1020. What a relief that was after
> countless tries with my Brother 2040 laser printer.
> 
> For what it's worth, I took the following steps:
> 
> 1. I printed my PCB design (using the HP 1020 printer) onto a piece of
> magazine paper. For the benefit of those reader's in NSW/ACT AU, I
> used the Open Road (the NRMA's newsletter). This is quite thin, shiny,
> smooth paper. I used sticky tape to affix the magazine paper to a
> standard piece of A4 paper. Only one piece of tape was required, along
> the leading edge of the magazine paper. I then printed on the A4
> paper/magazine as if it was an ordinary piece of paper.
> 
> 2. I cleaned my blank PCB very well using a scourer and some Jif.
> After rinsing the board clean, I cleaned it with a soft cloth and
> isopropyl alcohol. I then dried the board.
> 
> 3. I heated up my unmodified GBC Creative Laminator (also available
> from Dick Smith Electronics/F1424/$40). I then ran the blank PCB
> through it (copper-side up) to make sure it was really dry and to warm
> it up a bit (to help the toner 'take' quicker).
> 
> 4. I then put the printed PCB paper face down on the PCB and ran the
> board/paper copper-side up through the laminator. I repeated this 8
> times. By the second pass through the laminator, the toner was
> starting to fuse with the board (so the paper no longer moved or
> slipped).
> 
> 5. Finally, I put the board into lukewarm water. Very quickly the
> paper began to disintegrate. After 10 minutes of soaking, I rubbed off
> the paper with my fingers until the fused toner was visible.
> 
> The results were outstanding. The toner was really well fused to the
> board - indeed, I was surprised by just how resilient it was.
> 
> A couple refinements to the process have come to mind. I plan to try
> these out when I get the chance:
> 
> A. Experimenting with how many passes through the laminator are
> enough. Eight passes gets a little tedious, and who knows, 4 might do
> the trick. Determining the optimal number will require some trial and
> error and some patience.  (I might also modify the laminator to slow
> it down at some point, allowing the transfer to be done in a single
> pass).
> 
> B. Using a little Kapton tape to hold the pattern (magazine paper) in
> place on the blank PCB. This, in particular, would make feeding small
> boards through the laminator a lot easier. The Kapton tape should
> easily withstand the temperature of the laminator.
> 
> I hope this information proves helpful to someone, and many thanks
> again to those who replied to my original post.
> 
> Best wishes,
> 
> Luc
>

Hi

Also an easy way to heat up the pcb after cleaning and before using an iron,
is a hairdryer to heat up the copper board first before laying down the
paper with the toner on it, and ironing it

73

Tony VK2IC

On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 12:16 PM, Luc Small <luc.small@...> wrote:

>   Hello,
>
> I'm wondering if anyone has used a HP P1005 or P1006 LaserJet printer
> for PCB toner transfer. It is currently possible to pick up a P1005
> for $54 (after $30 cashback) in Australia, which makes it very
> affordable.
>
> I currently have a Brother HL-2040. I am getting very patchy results
> and I have read plenty of accounts from people who have had trouble
> with using Brother printers for toner transfer.
>
> As such, I'm interested to know if the P1005 is likely to yield better
> results.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Luc
>  
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Everyone,

Chilliismyweakness: I used the following model:

GBC Creative Laminator

It is available from Dick Smith Electronics, catalogue number F1424, $40:

http://www.dse.com.au/cgi-bin/dse.storefront/488e64bf03cce6be2741c0a87f9c076c/Product/View/F1424

I've also seen it at an Australia Post Shop for ~$44.

I am pretty happy with the results I am getting from it. It works very
well with the Open Road paper, but doesn't seem to work at all with
the Press'n'Peel film. I don't think enough heat gets through the
thicker Press'n'Peel film to properly bond the toner to the board.
However, I can't see much need to use the more expensive film when the
Open Road is free and works just as well for me.

One of its virtues is that it can handle 1.6mm FR4 board without
modification. I think the rollers have some give (perhaps they are
spring loaded), and can therefore adapt to the board's thickness. I
found that feeding the board on a slight angle worked best, i.e. so
that one corner contacts with the rollers first. Feeding it in this
way, the board never got stuck. Feeding it in parallel to the rollers
occasionally caused the rollers to jam.

I still think it would be nice to modify the laminator at some point
so it can fuse boards in a single pass. I think these things use a low
speed AC motor running at a fixed speed. I think I might eventually
turf this motor, and put a little DC motor, gearbox and a speed
controller in its place. But that project is some time off - for the
moment I'll just stick to feeding the board through ~8 times or so.


Myc: Thanks for the tip vis Avery and Dennison labels. My first
thought was Kapton tape since I have a couple of rolls of the stuff
lying around and I can't even melt it with the tip of my soldering
iron. However, I'd does seem kind of wasteful and expensive to use
such 'fancy tape' for making PCBs. Will give the labels a go.

Cheers,

Luc

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Luc Small" <luc.small@...> wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> I'm wondering if anyone has used a HP P1005 or P1006 LaserJet printer
> for PCB toner transfer. It is currently possible to pick up a P1005
> for $54 (after $30 cashback) in Australia, which makes it very
> affordable.
>
> I currently have a Brother HL-2040. I am getting very patchy results
> and I have read plenty of accounts from people who have had trouble
> with using Brother printers for toner transfer.
>
> As such, I'm interested to know if the P1005 is likely to yield better
results.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Luc
>
I purchased the HP1005 so I wouldn't have to replace the drum or so my
son said.  I had an Okidata B4200 that had the drum fail.  It would cost
as much to replace the drum as it would to buy a new printer.  I also
use Staples Basic Photo paper.  It works very well.  I iron the tracings
onto the copper board for about 5 minutes and the paper peels right off.
The only problem is after the etching is done, the plasic toner stays on
the tracings.  The only way I know of to remove the toner is to use a
dremel tool with a wire brush.  It works ok, but the board gets kinda
dirty from the toner.  The HP is a nice little printer for tracings.

Hi billshat44,

I have had great success using a rag soaked in acetone (as found in
some nail polish removers) to remove HP toner from my boards. A little
bit of rubbing quickly gets the stuff removed.

Cheers,

Luc

Am also having great results with the HP1005 printer, but something
odd I have noticed.  When the printer is printing a page, a tiny wisp
of odourless smoke (condensation) puffs out with the paper.  
The paper is dry and same used on another laser printer.  Has anyone
else noticed this???

Glenn.

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "chilliismyweakness"
<couchman74@...> wrote:

>
> I just returned a Brother HL-2040 and replaced it with a HP P1005
> (today actually!). i spent about 30 hours trying to get a decent
> layout with the HL-2040, it cant be done. i tried every magazine in
> the house along with a large array of varying photo papers. I even
> went to the extreme of going to the newsagent and buying a couple of
> magazines of varying gloss/thickness etc. 
> 
> I finally came to the conclusion when i tried using PnP blue which
> produced worse results than the 30+ different paper types that the
> brother cant produce any kind of usable PCB's. In fact the tectronix
> website even states that some new model brother lasers are having this
> problem with PnP Blue. I think it has something to do with some
> brother toners, and the fact it has to be heated much higher than
> other toners to bond. 
> 
> Any way, the place i got it from (officeworks, AU) has a 7 day
> satisfaction gurantee, i took it back with 2 days to spare and got a
> no questions asked refund (awesome). I got the HP P1005 straight away.
> And after a week of ironing/sandwich pressing about 100+ prints that
> didnt work, the first one i made on the P1005 was a perfect print. you
> could imagine my elation!
> 
> One thing i will note about the P1005, and this is only in comparison
> to a large size office grade Canon laser printer/copier is that the
> toner in the P1005 does not require as high a heat setting on your
> iron when you are transferring. i use a medium-high setting for the
> P1005, whereas with the canon i had the iron on flat out as any lower
> would produce unsatisfactory results. 
> 
> Hope this helps.  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Luc Small" <luc.small@> wrote:
> >
> > Hello,
> > 
> > I'm wondering if anyone has used a HP P1005 or P1006 LaserJet printer
> > for PCB toner transfer. It is currently possible to pick up a P1005
> > for $54 (after $30 cashback) in Australia, which makes it very
> > affordable.
> > 
> > I currently have a Brother HL-2040. I am getting very patchy results
> > and I have read plenty of accounts from people who have had trouble
> > with using Brother printers for toner transfer.
> > 
> > As such, I'm interested to know if the P1005 is likely to yield
> better results.
> > 
> > Best wishes,
> > 
> > Luc
> >
>

Luc - I wanted to really thank you for this post. I've been trying to
do toner transfers for .. well .. forever. Never got anything even
vaguely useful.

I am writing this with the first board that's ever been viable for me.
Very good, in fact!

I used the same GBC Creative laminator. I have been trying to get a
Laserjet 1020 but simply surrendered. However, I do have an old 3015
all-in-one that uses the same 12A cartridge as the 1020 - and it
worked great. I wonder if it's more in the cartridge than the printer
per se. I would guess that all printers that use the same cartridge
must have to heat the toner the same amount for optimal results,
though I also guess the more density, the better.

The real trick is the paper, I now understand. In my case, advertising
pages from Australian Aviation worked very well. The magazine is so
irritating to read with the glossy pages, but it makes great toner
transfer paper! :^)

I also realise now that a big secret is to make sure the board cools
before you soak off the paper, and to use lukewarm water at the
warmest. Too warm and it seems to soften the toner.

I lost a few pads on my board, but that's just because they were too
fine (10 though doughnuts). Not a single broken (or even thin) trace
otherwise. I fattened the pads up, and I'll have another crack later
this evening.

And you're right - the toner that does transfer sets like a rock!

Again - THANK YOU!

Phil

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Luc Small" <luc.small@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Everyone,
> 
> Chilliismyweakness: I used the following model:
> 
> GBC Creative Laminator
> 
> It is available from Dick Smith Electronics, catalogue number F1424,
$40:
> 
>
http://www.dse.com.au/cgi-bin/dse.storefront/488e64bf03cce6be2741c0a87f9c076c/Product/View/F1424

> 
> I've also seen it at an Australia Post Shop for ~$44.
> 
> I am pretty happy with the results I am getting from it. It works very
> well with the Open Road paper, but doesn't seem to work at all with
> the Press'n'Peel film. I don't think enough heat gets through the
> thicker Press'n'Peel film to properly bond the toner to the board.
> However, I can't see much need to use the more expensive film when the
> Open Road is free and works just as well for me.
> 
> One of its virtues is that it can handle 1.6mm FR4 board without
> modification. I think the rollers have some give (perhaps they are
> spring loaded), and can therefore adapt to the board's thickness. I
> found that feeding the board on a slight angle worked best, i.e. so
> that one corner contacts with the rollers first. Feeding it in this
> way, the board never got stuck. Feeding it in parallel to the rollers
> occasionally caused the rollers to jam.
> 
> I still think it would be nice to modify the laminator at some point
> so it can fuse boards in a single pass. I think these things use a low
> speed AC motor running at a fixed speed. I think I might eventually
> turf this motor, and put a little DC motor, gearbox and a speed
> controller in its place. But that project is some time off - for the
> moment I'll just stick to feeding the board through ~8 times or so.
> 
> 
> Myc: Thanks for the tip vis Avery and Dennison labels. My first
> thought was Kapton tape since I have a couple of rolls of the stuff
> lying around and I can't even melt it with the tip of my soldering
> iron. However, I'd does seem kind of wasteful and expensive to use
> such 'fancy tape' for making PCBs. Will give the labels a go.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Luc
>

Just though I would mention that the Royal Auto mag (RACV) is great paper.
With my samsung ml-2010, I didnt even need to soak the paper. It just peels
off and seems to leave a perfect transfer. I've only tried it once so far,
but with some reasonably fine soic (.65mm?) smt pads.

On 9/4/08, phildimond <my-yahoo-groups@...> wrote:
>
>
> The real trick is the paper, I now understand. In my case, advertising
> pages from Australian Aviation worked very well. The magazine is so
> irritating to read with the glossy pages, but it makes great toner
> transfer paper! :^)
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Well, try number 2 wasn't great at all.

Actually, it was dinky-di, true blue, slap-my-butt-and-call-me-Mary
perfect!

A couple of other notes... I used Scotch brand 'Magic Tape'. Peels off
and leaves no residue as long as you grab the paper and peel - you
can't seem to lift the corner of the tape itself.

Again - thanks everyone, Luc in particular!

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "phildimond"
<my-yahoo-groups@...> wrote:
>
> Luc - I wanted to really thank you for this post. I've been trying to
> do toner transfers for .. well .. forever. Never got anything even
> vaguely useful.
> 
> I am writing this with the first board that's ever been viable for me.
> Very good, in fact!
> 
> I used the same GBC Creative laminator. I have been trying to get a
> Laserjet 1020 but simply surrendered. However, I do have an old 3015
> all-in-one that uses the same 12A cartridge as the 1020 - and it
> worked great. I wonder if it's more in the cartridge than the printer
> per se. I would guess that all printers that use the same cartridge
> must have to heat the toner the same amount for optimal results,
> though I also guess the more density, the better.
> 
> The real trick is the paper, I now understand. In my case, advertising
> pages from Australian Aviation worked very well. The magazine is so
> irritating to read with the glossy pages, but it makes great toner
> transfer paper! :^)
> 
> I also realise now that a big secret is to make sure the board cools
> before you soak off the paper, and to use lukewarm water at the
> warmest. Too warm and it seems to soften the toner.
> 
> I lost a few pads on my board, but that's just because they were too
> fine (10 though doughnuts). Not a single broken (or even thin) trace
> otherwise. I fattened the pads up, and I'll have another crack later
> this evening.
> 
> And you're right - the toner that does transfer sets like a rock!
> 
> Again - THANK YOU!
> 
> Phil
> 
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Luc Small" <luc.small@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Everyone,
> > 
> > Chilliismyweakness: I used the following model:
> > 
> > GBC Creative Laminator
> > 
> > It is available from Dick Smith Electronics, catalogue number F1424,
> $40:
> > 
> >
>
http://www.dse.com.au/cgi-bin/dse.storefront/488e64bf03cce6be2741c0a87f9c076c/Product/View/F1424

> > 
> > I've also seen it at an Australia Post Shop for ~$44.
> > 
> > I am pretty happy with the results I am getting from it. It works very
> > well with the Open Road paper, but doesn't seem to work at all with
> > the Press'n'Peel film. I don't think enough heat gets through the
> > thicker Press'n'Peel film to properly bond the toner to the board.
> > However, I can't see much need to use the more expensive film when the
> > Open Road is free and works just as well for me.
> > 
> > One of its virtues is that it can handle 1.6mm FR4 board without
> > modification. I think the rollers have some give (perhaps they are
> > spring loaded), and can therefore adapt to the board's thickness. I
> > found that feeding the board on a slight angle worked best, i.e. so
> > that one corner contacts with the rollers first. Feeding it in this
> > way, the board never got stuck. Feeding it in parallel to the rollers
> > occasionally caused the rollers to jam.
> > 
> > I still think it would be nice to modify the laminator at some point
> > so it can fuse boards in a single pass. I think these things use a low
> > speed AC motor running at a fixed speed. I think I might eventually
> > turf this motor, and put a little DC motor, gearbox and a speed
> > controller in its place. But that project is some time off - for the
> > moment I'll just stick to feeding the board through ~8 times or so.
> > 
> > 
> > Myc: Thanks for the tip vis Avery and Dennison labels. My first
> > thought was Kapton tape since I have a couple of rolls of the stuff
> > lying around and I can't even melt it with the tip of my soldering
> > iron. However, I'd does seem kind of wasteful and expensive to use
> > such 'fancy tape' for making PCBs. Will give the labels a go.
> > 
> > Cheers,
> > 
> > Luc
> >
>

Phil,

Glad you found my post useful.

I, too, have switched to using pages from Australian Aviation
magazine. I had a copy of it laying around the house and decided to
give it a go one day. I was very impressed by the consistency of the
results.

I've been making a few boards today and have generally had good
results. I did run into trouble with a larger board (120x120mm),
however. I used the laminator to fuse the toner but the toner didn't
adhere well in the centre of the board. I think that the problem must
have been that the board cooled too much between each sucessive run
through the laminator. My previous boards have been up to about 60mm
wide, so they feed through in half the time and tend to loose less
heat between passes.

On the second try, I just gave the board an iron for a minute or two,
after the laminator passes. This did the trick and not a pad or track
is missing.

I think that modifying the laminator to run slower would solve this
problem, and allow boards to be fused in a single pass. I am thinking
about pulling mine apart and replacing the existing motor (which I
think is probably a low RPM AC motor) with a little hobby motor and
gearbox (such as Jaycar YG-2730). But I am not very mechanically
minded, so the end result might be a bricked laminator!

Cheers,

Luc