Homebrew PCBs

Hello
I'm a new member, a software developer and tinker-er. My latest 
tinkering has taken me into smd and I need to put together a small 
rework setup. I want to know what equipment I need. So far it looks 
the primary equipment is a stereo boom microscope and a good fine 
point hot air solder station.     

I'm thinking of picking up a second hand Leica sz4 which seems to be 
the old standard. But, I see reasonably priced Amscope units on Ebay 
and am wondering if there any good. Does anyone own an Amscope? Any 
opinions out there on a low cost scope for smd work?

For a soldering station, I'm thinking of a Weller wad101 or Edsyn 
971ha. But I want to get some opinions. Here at work, even though 
the guys do most of the rework with regular temp controlled irons. 
The consensus seems to be that a good fine point hot air iron is a 
must. Any opinions?

Thanks

"niceike5" <mwood@...> writes:
> So far it looks the primary equipment is a stereo boom microscope
> and a good fine point hot air solder station.

I use a 2.5x/3.5x visor, with which I've done down to 01005
capacitors, but I have a toy 200x microscope for verification.

I use a Metcal MX station, with both the 20mil conical tip for regular
work and a Talon for removal.  The talon covers everything up to SSOP
and some DIP (no QFP).  Or, I put the board back on the hotplate and
let it melt all the solder, then just pick off the parts I'm
interested in.

----- Original Message ----- 

From: "niceike5" <mwood@...>
To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, August 20, 2007 8:58 PM
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] setting up for smd


> Hello
> I'm a new member, a software developer and tinker-er. My latest
> tinkering has taken me into smd and I need to put together a small
> rework setup. I want to know what equipment I need. So far it looks
> the primary equipment is a stereo boom microscope and a good fine
> point hot air solder station.
>
> I'm thinking of picking up a second hand Leica sz4 which seems to be
> the old standard. But, I see reasonably priced Amscope units on Ebay
> and am wondering if there any good. Does anyone own an Amscope? Any
> opinions out there on a low cost scope for smd work?
>
> For a soldering station, I'm thinking of a Weller wad101 or Edsyn
> 971ha. But I want to get some opinions. Here at work, even though
> the guys do most of the rework with regular temp controlled irons.
> The consensus seems to be that a good fine point hot air iron is a
> must. Any opinions?

Metcal makes the best soldering equipment, it isn't too expensive if bought 
second-hand. I use an old STSS power unit with an MX-500 handpiece and 
cartridges.

Leon
--
Leon Heller
Amateur radio call-sign G1HSM
Yaesu FT-817ND and FT-857D transceivers
Suzuki SV1000S motorcycle
leon355@...
http://www.geocities.com/leon_heller

> Leon wrote:
> Metcal makes the best soldering equipment
> <SNIP>

Let the holy wars begin :D

On 8/21/07, Andrew <andrewm1973@...> wrote:
> > Leon wrote:
> > Metcal makes the best soldering equipment
> > <SNIP>
>
> Let the holy wars begin :D
>

My thought exactly ;-)
Everyone will do well to remember these are opinions ;-)

Regardless of brand, who is using a "small" hot air iron shaped like a
regular iron (aka hot air pencil), and how's it like?
http://www.lashen.com/vendors/CooperTools/images/WRS1002.jpg
(disregard brand please)

Also, who's using the larger hot air tool (aoyue, hakko,...) with the
larger handpiece and thicker hose? Any experience with those?
http://www.wildanger-digital.de/eBay/aoyue/852/852a+.jpg
(Again please disregard the brand)

I'd like some opinions on how the types compare in actual use.

thanks!

ST

I've been doing rework for years and although hot air is nice, it's
not necessary for small builds and proto-types. I use a temp
controlled Weller iron and I have an older Pace rework (de-soldering)
station that still comes in handy for SMD (sucks pretty much all the
solder off the pads). Some solder wick is also handy to clean things
up. A soldering tweezer tip (Like Talon) is also very useful. Brand of
iron is pure personal preference. We have Met-Cals and Wellers at my
work. Some guys swear by Met-Cal, I prefer Weller (as do some others)
and hence it's what I have at home.A decent heat gun (Ungar, with the
small nozzles) & flux is the only other items in my arsenal. For
inspection I have a good magnifying glass and several Jewelers Loupes
(5x, 10x, 20x). That with good lighting is all I need. A Micro-scope
would be a nice plus though.

For tips on my Weller I like the ETU for most everything small and
EPH101 for fine touch up (fixing one lead, ect). I also use the ETO a
lot and the ETA  for larger items.

Phil (KA0HBG)

>
> Hello
> I'm a new member, a software developer and tinker-er. My latest 
> tinkering has taken me into smd and I need to put together a small 
> rework setup. I want to know what equipment I need. So far it looks 
> the primary equipment is a stereo boom microscope and a good fine 
> point hot air solder station.

Shhhh, shhhh, don't say that!
I've been preparing them the last few weeks that we _need_ more SMD
tools, you can't go around saying things like "not necessary" ;-)

I know it can be done with the tools you mentioned (i have pretty much
the same list just other brands), but regularly we need like 5 to 10
prototypes at once and it's more and more SMD parts every time, and
they get smaller too. That can easily be a day or more of soldering.
At least a pneumatic paste dispenser is a must, applying it by hand
with the syringe is hard work if you try doing it for a long time. And
the hot air gun is really not ideal for reflow either.


ST

On 8/21/07, pgdion1 <pgdion1@...> wrote:
> I've been doing rework for years and although hot air is nice, it's
> not necessary for small builds and proto-types. I use a temp
> controlled Weller iron and I have an older Pace rework (de-soldering)
> station that still comes in handy for SMD (sucks pretty much all the
> solder off the pads). Some solder wick is also handy to clean things
> up. A soldering tweezer tip (Like Talon) is also very useful. Brand of
> iron is pure personal preference. We have Met-Cals and Wellers at my
> work. Some guys swear by Met-Cal, I prefer Weller (as do some others)
> and hence it's what I have at home.A decent heat gun (Ungar, with the
> small nozzles) & flux is the only other items in my arsenal. For
> inspection I have a good magnifying glass and several Jewelers Loupes
> (5x, 10x, 20x). That with good lighting is all I need. A Micro-scope
> would be a nice plus though.
>

"Stefan Trethan" <stefan_trethan@...> writes:
> That can easily be a day or more of soldering.

You need to talk them into buying reflow gear :-)

On 21 Aug 2007 14:00:30 -0400, DJ Delorie <dj@...> wrote:
>
> "Stefan Trethan" <stefan_trethan@...> writes:
> > That can easily be a day or more of soldering.
>
> You need to talk them into buying reflow gear :-)
>

That's the plan ;-)

Has anyone experience with the cheaper reflow ovens like the one from LPKF?
<http://www.lpkf.com/_images/255.jpg>
Note that apparently the small slot in the drawer is a "large glass window".
You understand now why i am afraid of more hyperbole in the brochure?

ST

LOL- Sorry about that Stephan.  I agree, anything more than one or 2
by hand is not practical this way. If it gets to that, I have the
luxery of sending boards down to or rework group to be done. Only
problem is a lot of times they come back and I still have to touch
them up by hand - Arrrrrgh!

>
> Shhhh, shhhh, don't say that!
> I've been preparing them the last few weeks that we _need_ more SMD
> tools, you can't go around saying things like "not necessary" ;-)
> 
> I know it can be done with the tools you mentioned (i have pretty much
> the same list just other brands), but regularly we need like 5 to 10
> prototypes at once and it's more and more SMD parts every time, and
> they get smaller too. That can easily be a day or more of soldering.
> At least a pneumatic paste dispenser is a must, applying it by hand
> with the syringe is hard work if you try doing it for a long time. And
> the hot air gun is really not ideal for reflow either.
> 
> 
> ST
> 
> On 8/21/07, pgdion1 <pgdion1@...> wrote:
> > I've been doing rework for years and although hot air is nice, it's
> > not necessary for small builds and proto-types. I use a temp
> > controlled Weller iron and I have an older Pace rework (de-soldering)
> > station that still comes in handy for SMD (sucks pretty much all the
> > solder off the pads). Some solder wick is also handy to clean things
> > up. A soldering tweezer tip (Like Talon) is also very useful. Brand of
> > iron is pure personal preference. We have Met-Cals and Wellers at my
> > work. Some guys swear by Met-Cal, I prefer Weller (as do some others)
> > and hence it's what I have at home.A decent heat gun (Ungar, with the
> > small nozzles) & flux is the only other items in my arsenal. For
> > inspection I have a good magnifying glass and several Jewelers Loupes
> > (5x, 10x, 20x). That with good lighting is all I need. A Micro-scope
> > would be a nice plus though.
> >
>

At my experience in my workplace, the metcal irons worked great. The 
most used were a 3mm or so conical chisel tip, and a smaller version 
of it. I found the larger tip helped prevent me from burning the 
board because of the greater mass and surface area, made for great 
thermal recovery. With the larger tip i could easily solder 402 parts.
We had a Hakko Hot air gun, the main usage was for removal of smt 
parts, not insertion. however on occasion i would use it to preheat 
large parts with ground planes like power mosfets or the like. I've 
also used it to solder SOIC parts, though a bit harder. Pre-tin the 
pads, use some flux and hold the part in place while reflowing with 
the hot air gun. Often this required touchup later. As for a stereo 
microscope, it's a must for delicate work. certian SMT connectors and 
sockets you will need a microscope for. I've tried several different 
kinds, though the one i liked the most for ease of use was a 
stereoscope with a single viewing window. i don't remember the brand 
but it used a rotating mirror or something inside it. lol. The other 
i've used is the two eyepiece type. it did seem to have better 
optics, but keeping the right distance to the eyepiece was 
frustrating. in any rate, buy the brightest light halo you can 
afford. at high levels of magnification you will appreciate more 
light.
Hope this helps.
-Steph
--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "pgdion1" <pgdion1@...> wrote:
>
> LOL- Sorry about that Stephan.  I agree, anything more than one or 2
> by hand is not practical this way. If it gets to that, I have the
> luxery of sending boards down to or rework group to be done. Only
> problem is a lot of times they come back and I still have to touch
> them up by hand - Arrrrrgh!
> 
> >
> > Shhhh, shhhh, don't say that!
> > I've been preparing them the last few weeks that we _need_ more 
SMD
> > tools, you can't go around saying things like "not necessary" ;-)
> > 
> > I know it can be done with the tools you mentioned (i have pretty 
much
> > the same list just other brands), but regularly we need like 5 to 
10
> > prototypes at once and it's more and more SMD parts every time, 
and
> > they get smaller too. That can easily be a day or more of 
soldering.
> > At least a pneumatic paste dispenser is a must, applying it by 
hand
> > with the syringe is hard work if you try doing it for a long 
time. And
> > the hot air gun is really not ideal for reflow either.
> > 
> > 
> > ST
> > 
> > On 8/21/07, pgdion1 <pgdion1@> wrote:
> > > I've been doing rework for years and although hot air is nice, 
it's
> > > not necessary for small builds and proto-types. I use a temp
> > > controlled Weller iron and I have an older Pace rework (de-
soldering)
> > > station that still comes in handy for SMD (sucks pretty much 
all the
> > > solder off the pads). Some solder wick is also handy to clean 
things
> > > up. A soldering tweezer tip (Like Talon) is also very useful. 
Brand of
> > > iron is pure personal preference. We have Met-Cals and Wellers 
at my
> > > work. Some guys swear by Met-Cal, I prefer Weller (as do some 
others)
> > > and hence it's what I have at home.A decent heat gun (Ungar, 
with the
> > > small nozzles) & flux is the only other items in my arsenal. For
> > > inspection I have a good magnifying glass and several Jewelers 
Loupes
> > > (5x, 10x, 20x). That with good lighting is all I need. A Micro-
scope

> > > would be a nice plus though.
> > >
> >
>

This is some great info thanks. It's really caused me to take a 
deeper look at the equipment out there. But, I do have a couple 
questions;

DJ: > I put the board back on the hotplate
What do you use for a hot plate?

Phil: >decent heat gun (Ungar 

Is this a hand held dryer style unit like 6996?

Does any one have opinion on the Aoyue 968 combo units? 
They're very reasonably priced I wonder if there any good.

At any rate, I've been a Weller guy for years. But reading the 
technotes on the Metcal smartheat really causes one to think, 
especially when it is corroborated like this. 

Thanks






--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Stephanie Ann Thompson" 
<setlahs@...> wrote:
>
> At my experience in my workplace, the metcal irons worked great. 
The 
> most used were a 3mm or so conical chisel tip, and a smaller 
version 
> of it. I found the larger tip helped prevent me from burning the 
> board because of the greater mass and surface area, made for great 
> thermal recovery. With the larger tip i could easily solder 402 
parts.
> We had a Hakko Hot air gun, the main usage was for removal of smt 
> parts, not insertion. however on occasion i would use it to 
preheat 
> large parts with ground planes like power mosfets or the like. 
I've 
> also used it to solder SOIC parts, though a bit harder. Pre-tin 
the 
> pads, use some flux and hold the part in place while reflowing 
with 
> the hot air gun. Often this required touchup later. As for a 
stereo 
> microscope, it's a must for delicate work. certian SMT connectors 
and 
> sockets you will need a microscope for. I've tried several 
different 
> kinds, though the one i liked the most for ease of use was a 
> stereoscope with a single viewing window. i don't remember the 
brand 
> but it used a rotating mirror or something inside it. lol. The 
other 
> i've used is the two eyepiece type. it did seem to have better 
> optics, but keeping the right distance to the eyepiece was 
> frustrating. in any rate, buy the brightest light halo you can 
> afford. at high levels of magnification you will appreciate more 
> light.
> Hope this helps.
> -Steph
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "pgdion1" <pgdion1@> wrote:
> >
> > LOL- Sorry about that Stephan.  I agree, anything more than one 
or 2
> > by hand is not practical this way. If it gets to that, I have the
> > luxery of sending boards down to or rework group to be done. Only
> > problem is a lot of times they come back and I still have to 
touch
> > them up by hand - Arrrrrgh!
> > 
> > >
> > > Shhhh, shhhh, don't say that!
> > > I've been preparing them the last few weeks that we _need_ 
more 
> SMD
> > > tools, you can't go around saying things like "not 
necessary" ;-)
> > > 
> > > I know it can be done with the tools you mentioned (i have 
pretty 
> much
> > > the same list just other brands), but regularly we need like 5 
to 
> 10
> > > prototypes at once and it's more and more SMD parts every 
time, 
> and
> > > they get smaller too. That can easily be a day or more of 
> soldering.
> > > At least a pneumatic paste dispenser is a must, applying it by 
> hand
> > > with the syringe is hard work if you try doing it for a long 
> time. And
> > > the hot air gun is really not ideal for reflow either.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > ST
> > > 
> > > On 8/21/07, pgdion1 <pgdion1@> wrote:
> > > > I've been doing rework for years and although hot air is 
nice, 
> it's
> > > > not necessary for small builds and proto-types. I use a temp
> > > > controlled Weller iron and I have an older Pace rework (de-
> soldering)
> > > > station that still comes in handy for SMD (sucks pretty much 
> all the
> > > > solder off the pads). Some solder wick is also handy to 
clean 
> things
> > > > up. A soldering tweezer tip (Like Talon) is also very 
useful. 
> Brand of
> > > > iron is pure personal preference. We have Met-Cals and 
Wellers 
> at my
> > > > work. Some guys swear by Met-Cal, I prefer Weller (as do 
some 
> others)
> > > > and hence it's what I have at home.A decent heat gun (Ungar, 
> with the
> > > > small nozzles) & flux is the only other items in my arsenal. 
For
> > > > inspection I have a good magnifying glass and several 
Jewelers 
> Loupes
> > > > (5x, 10x, 20x). That with good lighting is all I need. A 
Micro-

> scope
> > > > would be a nice plus though.
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

"niceike5" <mwood@...> writes:
> DJ: > I put the board back on the hotplate
> What do you use for a hot plate?

Whatever was cheapest at Target.  Currently, an Aroma $20 model.
http://www.delorie.com/pcb/hotplate/

Some shots of it in action at the bottom of this page:
http://geda.seul.org/projects/djs_pcbs/

I'm the one in the green shirt, but ignore the liquid tin results - I
missed a step and it came out all wrong.

> At any rate, I've been a Weller guy for years. But reading the
> technotes on the Metcal smartheat really causes one to think,
> especially when it is corroborated like this.

My favorite part of the metcal system is that it goes from cold to
ready in about 15 seconds, so you can switch tips all you want without
worrying about the usual "warm up" penalty.

----- Original Message ----- 

From: "DJ Delorie" <dj@...>
To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 4:27 PM
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: setting up for smd

>> At any rate, I've been a Weller guy for years. But reading the
>> technotes on the Metcal smartheat really causes one to think,
>> especially when it is corroborated like this.
>
> My favorite part of the metcal system is that it goes from cold to
> ready in about 15 seconds, so you can switch tips all you want without
> worrying about the usual "warm up" penalty.

I usually find it quite difficult to clear solder from plated holes. I just 
tried some new desolder braid using my Metcal on a couple and it cleared 
them very easily.

Leon

In article <001101c7e59f$d25bf0b0$4101a8c0@AZATHOTH>,
   Leon <leon355@...> wrote:
> I usually find it quite difficult to clear solder from plated holes. I
> just tried some new desolder braid using my Metcal on a couple and it
> cleared them very easily.

The best solution I came up with was to apply a /very/ pointed tip to the
hole on the component side (point enters the hole very slightly) and a
vacuum desoldering station bit on the other. Apply the suck, quickly
remove the other iron while sucking and the result is a nice clean hole.
Works every time :-)