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PCB Touch up

PCB Touch up

2007-08-05 by johncrad

Hello All,
I have a fairly complicated single-sided pcb that I am doing with
toner transfer. The tracks and through-hole component pads are 12 mil.
After several tries at T/T I have reached a 99.99% level of transfer.
I wish to touch up the missing bits. However, the examples of a
sharpie that I have seen here in OZ would be like trying to touch-up
with a broomstick (and they call them fine point!!). So I am looking
for advice and experience in touching up fine track resist; including
make and model of   known successful products.
TIA
Regards
John C

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] PCB Touch up

2007-08-05 by Jan Kok

I believe there is an "ultrafine point" sharpie.

I haven't tried it, but maybe you could cut two sides off a "fine
point" sharpie with a razor blade, to get a very narrow tip.

Cheers,
- Jan
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On 8/4/07, johncrad <John.Craddock@...> wrote:
> Hello All,
> I have a fairly complicated single-sided pcb that I am doing with
> toner transfer. The tracks and through-hole component pads are 12 mil.
> After several tries at T/T I have reached a 99.99% level of transfer.
> I wish to touch up the missing bits. However, the examples of a
> sharpie that I have seen here in OZ would be like trying to touch-up
> with a broomstick (and they call them fine point!!). So I am looking
> for advice and experience in touching up fine track resist; including
> make and model of   known successful products.
> TIA
> Regards
> John C

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] PCB Touch up

2007-08-05 by Leon

----- Original Message -----
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: "johncrad" <John.Craddock@...>
To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2007 6:35 AM
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] PCB Touch up


> Hello All,
> I have a fairly complicated single-sided pcb that I am doing with
> toner transfer. The tracks and through-hole component pads are 12 mil.
> After several tries at T/T I have reached a 99.99% level of transfer.
> I wish to touch up the missing bits. However, the examples of a
> sharpie that I have seen here in OZ would be like trying to touch-up
> with a broomstick (and they call them fine point!!). So I am looking
> for advice and experience in touching up fine track resist; including
> make and model of   known successful products.

You could sharpen the tip with a sharp knife.

Leon
--
Leon Heller
Amateur radio call-sign G1HSM
Yaesu FT-817ND and FT-857D transceivers
Suzuki SV1000S motorcycle
leon355@...
http://www.geocities.com/leon_heller

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] PCB Touch up

2007-08-05 by Craig vk2zcm

Hi John

I've been using
the STAEDTLER permanent Lumocolor "S" 313-2
Its red ink, the pen has a black body with a  "S" on the red cap
The ink is a little clear on copper but works with ferric chloride
I buy them at the local newsagent about $3.25 have a scribble in the shop to check it out first

cheers
Craig vk2zcm
Show quoted textHide quoted text
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: johncrad 
  To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2007 3:35 PM
  Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] PCB Touch up


  Hello All,
  I have a fairly complicated single-sided pcb that I am doing with
  toner transfer. The tracks and through-hole component pads are 12 mil.
  After several tries at T/T I have reached a 99.99% level of transfer.
  I wish to touch up the missing bits. However, the examples of a
  sharpie that I have seen here in OZ would be like trying to touch-up
  with a broomstick (and they call them fine point!!). So I am looking
  for advice and experience in touching up fine track resist; including
  make and model of known successful products.
  TIA
  Regards
  John C



   


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Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] PCB Touch up

2007-08-05 by Craig vk2zcm

Hi John

Another tip you can always trim the ink marked tracks with a little scraping with a scalpel a common practice in the drafting office back in the hand drawn ink days

Cheers
Craig vk2zcm
Show quoted textHide quoted text
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: johncrad 
  To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2007 3:35 PM
  Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] PCB Touch up


  Hello All,
  I have a fairly complicated single-sided pcb that I am doing with
  toner transfer. The tracks and through-hole component pads are 12 mil.
  After several tries at T/T I have reached a 99.99% level of transfer.
  I wish to touch up the missing bits. However, the examples of a
  sharpie that I have seen here in OZ would be like trying to touch-up
  with a broomstick (and they call them fine point!!). So I am looking
  for advice and experience in touching up fine track resist; including
  make and model of known successful products.
  TIA
  Regards
  John C



   


------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
  Checked by AVG Free Edition. 
  Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.23/924 - Release Date: 7/28/2007 3:50 PM



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] PCB Touch up

2007-08-05 by John L. Craddock

Many thanks for the tips folks. I might try the Lumocolour. Anyone know whether it works as a resist in HCL/H2O2 etch?
TIA
Regards
John C

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] PCB Touch up

2007-08-06 by Stefan Trethan

On 8/5/07, John L. Craddock <John.Craddock@...> wrote:
> Many thanks for the tips folks. I might try the Lumocolour. Anyone know whether it works as a resist in HCL/H2O2 etch?
> TIA
> Regards
> John C
>

Depends on HCl concentration. If it is high, not too well. If it isn't
so high it works OK. You want a fresh pen though (get the refill
bottle) to get a thick ink layer.

ST

Re: PCB Touch up

2007-08-06 by dl5012

Hi John,

Don't bother trying the ultrafine point Sharpie markers.  The ink 
doesn't work as an etch resist...  Same goes for the "huge" chisel 
point industrial marker.  I thought that tip would be good for going 
over large copper fill areas...

I've used the black fine point Sharpie as an etch resist for 
decades.  For narrow traces, I've used slots cut in transparencies 
as templates.  I use an eraser shield and a firm eraser to clean up 
the edges.  Eraser shields are surprisingly difficult to find these 
days; drafting (drawing by hand) must be becoming a lost art.  The 
last batch I bought at a craft store; poor quality with sharp edges, 
but better than nothing.  In a pinch, you could use a transparency 
with slots cut out.

Another option is to use "Ruby" tape.  This is a red transparent 
tape they used to use this in the old days to layout PCB (and 
integrated circuit layout) by hand.  It works fine as long as you 
don't have any "crossings" where etchant can get under the tape.

Yet a third option is to locate some rub-on transfers.  I have some 
sheets that have traces and pad patterns (but haven't seen them for 
decades...).

Regards,
Dennis

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Jan Kok" <jan.kok.5y@...> 
wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> I believe there is an "ultrafine point" sharpie.
> 
> I haven't tried it, but maybe you could cut two sides off a "fine
> point" sharpie with a razor blade, to get a very narrow tip.
> 
> Cheers,
> - Jan
>

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: PCB Touch up

2007-08-06 by Gordon Couger

Why not just a brush and a few coats of  India Ink or paint. You can 
make a mask if you can't do it free hand. A good bush with long bristles 
is easier to use than it looks.

Gordon

dl5012 wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> Hi John,
>
> Don't bother trying the ultrafine point Sharpie markers. The ink
> doesn't work as an etch resist... Same goes for the "huge" chisel
> point industrial marker. I thought that tip would be good for going
> over large copper fill areas...
>
> I've used the black fine point Sharpie as an etch resist for
> decades. For narrow traces, I've used slots cut in transparencies
> as templates. I use an eraser shield and a firm eraser to clean up
> the edges. Eraser shields are surprisingly difficult to find these
> days; drafting (drawing by hand) must be becoming a lost art. The
> last batch I bought at a craft store; poor quality with sharp edges,
> but better than nothing. In a pinch, you could use a transparency
> with slots cut out.
>
> Another option is to use "Ruby" tape. This is a red transparent
> tape they used to use this in the old days to layout PCB (and
> integrated circuit layout) by hand. It works fine as long as you
> don't have any "crossings" where etchant can get under the tape.
>
> Yet a third option is to locate some rub-on transfers. I have some
> sheets that have traces and pad patterns (but haven't seen them for
> decades...).
>
> Regards,
> Dennis
>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com 
> <mailto:Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com>, "Jan Kok" <jan.kok.5y@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > I believe there is an "ultrafine point" sharpie.
> >
> > I haven't tried it, but maybe you could cut two sides off a "fine
> > point" sharpie with a razor blade, to get a very narrow tip.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > - Jan
> >
>
>

Re: PCB Touch up

2007-08-08 by TonyB

A fine tipped brush and signpainter's ink works fine also.  U want a
paint that is not water soluable, and dries quickly. Sharpies are the
right type ink, but go on much too thin.  When push comes to shove, I
just get my girlfriend to donate one of the many colors she doesn't
use anymore.  I even use the internal brush!!  The idea is to save the
copper.  U can always scratch off the excess copper after the pcb is
etched.   Etch on, Dudes!   afn  Tone

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Gordon Couger
<gordon.couger@...> wrote:
>
> Why not just a brush and a few coats of  India Ink or paint. You can 
> make a mask if you can't do it free hand. A good bush with long
bristles
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> is easier to use than it looks.
> 
> Gordon
> 
> dl5012 wrote:
> >
> > Hi John,
> >
> > Don't bother trying the ultrafine point Sharpie markers. The ink
> > doesn't work as an etch resist... Same goes for the "huge" chisel
> > point industrial marker. I thought that tip would be good for going
> > over large copper fill areas...
> >
> > I've used the black fine point Sharpie as an etch resist for
> > decades. For narrow traces, I've used slots cut in transparencies
> > as templates. I use an eraser shield and a firm eraser to clean up
> > the edges. Eraser shields are surprisingly difficult to find these
> > days; drafting (drawing by hand) must be becoming a lost art. The
> > last batch I bought at a craft store; poor quality with sharp edges,
> > but better than nothing. In a pinch, you could use a transparency
> > with slots cut out.
> >
> > Another option is to use "Ruby" tape. This is a red transparent
> > tape they used to use this in the old days to layout PCB (and
> > integrated circuit layout) by hand. It works fine as long as you
> > don't have any "crossings" where etchant can get under the tape.
> >
> > Yet a third option is to locate some rub-on transfers. I have some
> > sheets that have traces and pad patterns (but haven't seen them for
> > decades...).
> >
> > Regards,
> > Dennis
> >
> > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com 
> > <mailto:Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com>, "Jan Kok" <jan.kok.5y@>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > I believe there is an "ultrafine point" sharpie.
> > >
> > > I haven't tried it, but maybe you could cut two sides off a "fine
> > > point" sharpie with a razor blade, to get a very narrow tip.
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > > - Jan
> > >
> >
> >
>

Re: PCB Touch up

2007-08-08 by Len Warner

At 2:19 pm ((PDT)) Mon Aug 6, 2007, in Digest 2254 Gordon Couger wrote:

>Why not just a brush and a few coats of  India Ink

Except that India Ink is lampblack (carbon)
suspended in gum arabic solution.

In solution the gum arabic acts as a colloidal
suspension medium and in the dried ink as a
binder to retain the carbon particles.

Gum arabic is a reversible colloid, so the ink
will wash off again in water (or etchant).

Like albumen and gelatine, it has been used
successfully in photographic processes for
lithography and print-making, so it is possible to
turn it into an etch resist by chemically tanning it
or heat-curing it.

However, with Indian Ink that still leaves the film
punctured by millions of porous carbon granules
which make it more liable to failure - a mechanism
which may also explain in the direct inkjet printing
pcb process the poorer performance of black
pigment ink compared with colour inks.


Regards, LenW
-- 
   From Yahoo! Groups Help: ... trim all the irrelevant quoted text
   out of your message (as a courtesy to the other members of
   the group to make the digest easier to read).

Re: PCB Touch up

2007-08-09 by bill heverly

I've been following this subject for a few days now and I guess it's 
time I add a note about my touch up solution. I use a product that I 
bought at a local A C Moore craft store. It's called Painters 
calligraphy, made by Hunt Corp in Statesville, SC. It has a felt tip 
and works quite well, although it is a little slow drying. Blowing on 
it helps. Mine is black, but it probably comes in other colors too.

Bill Heverly

Re: PCB Touch up

2007-08-09 by TonyB

Forgot to mention that the stuff my girlfriend donates is fingernail
polish!!   Sorry bout that  :-)  A fast drying enamel. Comes off
easily with lacquer thinner.  Just like the TonerTransfer.  I usually
use red cause, not only does she have many shades of red, but I like
the color cause is stands out.  Keep on Etching.....  afn T

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "TonyB" <tbarros@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> A fine tipped brush and signpainter's ink works fine also.  U want a
> paint that is not water soluable, and dries quickly. Sharpies are the
> right type ink, but go on much too thin.  When push comes to shove, I
> just get my girlfriend to donate one of the many colors she doesn't
> use anymore.  I even use the internal brush!!  The idea is to save the
> copper.  U can always scratch off the excess copper after the pcb is
> etched.   Etch on, Dudes!   afn  Tone
> 
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Gordon Couger
> <gordon.couger@> wrote:
> >
> > Why not just a brush and a few coats of  India Ink or paint. You can 
> > make a mask if you can't do it free hand. A good bush with long
> bristles 
> > is easier to use than it looks.
> > 
> > Gordon
> > 
> > dl5012 wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi John,
> > >
> > > Don't bother trying the ultrafine point Sharpie markers. The ink
> > > doesn't work as an etch resist... Same goes for the "huge" chisel
> > > point industrial marker. I thought that tip would be good for going
> > > over large copper fill areas...
> > >
> > > I've used the black fine point Sharpie as an etch resist for
> > > decades. For narrow traces, I've used slots cut in transparencies
> > > as templates. I use an eraser shield and a firm eraser to clean up
> > > the edges. Eraser shields are surprisingly difficult to find these
> > > days; drafting (drawing by hand) must be becoming a lost art. The
> > > last batch I bought at a craft store; poor quality with sharp edges,
> > > but better than nothing. In a pinch, you could use a transparency
> > > with slots cut out.
> > >
> > > Another option is to use "Ruby" tape. This is a red transparent
> > > tape they used to use this in the old days to layout PCB (and
> > > integrated circuit layout) by hand. It works fine as long as you
> > > don't have any "crossings" where etchant can get under the tape.
> > >
> > > Yet a third option is to locate some rub-on transfers. I have some
> > > sheets that have traces and pad patterns (but haven't seen them for
> > > decades...).
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Dennis
> > >
> > > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com 
> > > <mailto:Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com>, "Jan Kok" <jan.kok.5y@>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I believe there is an "ultrafine point" sharpie.
> > > >
> > > > I haven't tried it, but maybe you could cut two sides off a "fine
> > > > point" sharpie with a razor blade, to get a very narrow tip.
> > > >
> > > > Cheers,
> > > > - Jan
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>

Re: PCB Touch up

2007-08-13 by pgdion1

I was going to mention this one, Fingernail polish works great as a
resist (at least in Ferric Chloride). Dries rock hard in a few
minutes. I've used it to paint large ground planes (really nice since
it comes with a built in brush). Also works good for touch up with a
smaller brush or my favorite, a toothpick.

Phil
KA0HBG


--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "TonyB" <tbarros@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> Forgot to mention that the stuff my girlfriend donates is fingernail
> polish!!   Sorry bout that  :-)  A fast drying enamel. Comes off
> easily with lacquer thinner.

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