Homebrew PCBs

I am about to dive back into the ink jet printing concept for etch 
resist application.  It seems as though the Magenta and Yellow inks 
are working the best for MisPro and for Epson inks.  I have an Epson 
R220 that is going to be my test machine.

Not wanting to invest in yet more ink and more refillable cartridges 
and all that stuff, I am thinking I will run over to cartridgeworld 
and have them fill up a black cartridge with either a mix of magenta 
and yellow, or one or the other if they complain.  The reason for 
doing it this way, I can bypass the problem with the printer 
complaining about the wrong "Color" in the wrong slot and get past all 
the stuff with the goofy chips on the cartridges.  My PCB layout 
software doesn't allow me to select which color to print with and I 
have not had any luck going to a PDF first, then changing the colors 
there.  

Does this all seem to make sense and seem like a reasonable direction 
to go?

I have taken the printer partially apart a while back and put it back 
to gether again.  I hope to get a bit further this weekend if time 
allows.  There is a straight through path on this printer with the 
exception of "Something" on the right rear area that I have yet to 
find out what it is.  Hopefully that thing can be moved and the 
plastic just cut away to allow for clearance to feed a full, 8 1/2" 
wide sheet of PCB material through in that area.

It also seems as though adding a heater is a good idea to allow for 
faster and better drying of the inks, so that too will be considered 
along the way.  Any suggestions for a heater that could heat the 
entire width of the PCB board and allow for temperature control?

Chris

Hi Chris,

I've been working on a R220 on and off for a while now. The most 
annoying thing is the positioning of the CD tray. It is finicky. One 
note: if you create two addtional "thumbholds" in the tray you can 
print on a 4.25" square board. This is about the minimumb hack needed.

You may have a problem getting the cartiridge re-filled with another 
kind of ink. I tried Island Inkjet and they refused to do it. They do 
not completely flush out the cartridge before refilling and were 
concerned about incompatibilities betweeen inks and cpntaminting 
thier ink supply.

I was just given a C88, which uses the pigment inks. I haven't tried 
it yet but it looks like the cartridges will fit. I'm not sure about 
the "chips" though.

As for a heater, consider a long aquarium heater. I'm not sure how it 
wil "survive" outside of water but they are pretty cheap.

Myc





--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "lcdpublishing" 
<lcdpublishing@...> wrote:
>
> I am about to dive back into the ink jet printing concept for etch 
> resist application.  It seems as though the Magenta and Yellow inks 
> are working the best for MisPro and for Epson inks.  I have an 
Epson 
> R220 that is going to be my test machine.
> 
> Not wanting to invest in yet more ink and more refillable 
cartridges 
> and all that stuff, I am thinking I will run over to cartridgeworld 
> and have them fill up a black cartridge with either a mix of 
magenta 
> and yellow, or one or the other if they complain.  The reason for 
> doing it this way, I can bypass the problem with the printer 
> complaining about the wrong "Color" in the wrong slot and get past 
all 
> the stuff with the goofy chips on the cartridges.  My PCB layout 
> software doesn't allow me to select which color to print with and I 
> have not had any luck going to a PDF first, then changing the 
colors 
> there.  
> 
> Does this all seem to make sense and seem like a reasonable 
direction 
> to go?
> 
> I have taken the printer partially apart a while back and put it 
back 
> to gether again.  I hope to get a bit further this weekend if time 
> allows.  There is a straight through path on this printer with the 
> exception of "Something" on the right rear area that I have yet to 
> find out what it is.  Hopefully that thing can be moved and the 
> plastic just cut away to allow for clearance to feed a full, 8 1/2" 
> wide sheet of PCB material through in that area.
> 
> It also seems as though adding a heater is a good idea to allow for 
> faster and better drying of the inks, so that too will be 
considered 

> along the way.  Any suggestions for a heater that could heat the 
> entire width of the PCB board and allow for temperature control?
> 
> Chris
>

Hi Mycroft,

I decided to go the route of feeding in the PCB material from the 
backside and NOT USING THE CD tray.  I didn't want to be restricted 
by the size of the PCB which is why I went for the super hacker 
method....

I pulled all the covers off this morning and got it to print again.  
I will have to make up a guide device to guide the PCB into the 
printer squarely - shouldn't be too difficult. Getting the timing 
right for feeding the PCB into the printer at the right time isn't 
too bad - I got paper to start fine after a few tries.

The head is too low, but lifting it up high enough is very easy - I 
think.  You can see a metal bracket on the right side of the guide 
shaft for the print head.  A cam in there somewhere lifts the head 
up and down for something, but you can also just push up that metal 
bracket and the head raises up high enough for PCB stock.  I just 
ran some epoxy board through the printer without jaming the head.

So far, the modifications to feed through the back were very easy - 
just removing plastic.  There will be some tinkering on the flap 
that folds down for the CD tray. That needs to be open to raise the 
pizza wheels, but when open, the PCB hits that flap. I think the fix 
will be a bit more hacking away at the plastic.  The switch for 
detecting if that flap is open or closed is inside that flap so I 
have to be very careful what I do with it till I get a better grasp 
of what is going on there.

The ink is going to be the big problem I suspect.  I am going to 
attempt to print on some PCB stock later today and try to etch it.  
I will just print some color bands or something to see which colors 
etch and which don't.  For heating the first time around I will try 
the heat gun like the other guys did and then give the aquarium 
heater a try after that.



--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "mycroft2152" 
<mycroft2152y@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Chris,
> 
> I've been working on a R220 on and off for a while now. The most 
> annoying thing is the positioning of the CD tray. It is finicky. 
One 
> note: if you create two addtional "thumbholds" in the tray you can 
> print on a 4.25" square board. This is about the minimumb hack 
needed.
> 
> You may have a problem getting the cartiridge re-filled with 
another 
> kind of ink. I tried Island Inkjet and they refused to do it. They 
do 
> not completely flush out the cartridge before refilling and were 
> concerned about incompatibilities betweeen inks and cpntaminting 
> thier ink supply.
> 
> I was just given a C88, which uses the pigment inks. I haven't 
tried 
> it yet but it looks like the cartridges will fit. I'm not sure 
about 
> the "chips" though.
> 
> As for a heater, consider a long aquarium heater. I'm not sure how 
it 
> wil "survive" outside of water but they are pretty cheap.
> 
> Myc
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "lcdpublishing" 
> <lcdpublishing@> wrote:
> >
> > I am about to dive back into the ink jet printing concept for 
etch 
> > resist application.  It seems as though the Magenta and Yellow 
inks 
> > are working the best for MisPro and for Epson inks.  I have an 
> Epson 
> > R220 that is going to be my test machine.
> > 
> > Not wanting to invest in yet more ink and more refillable 
> cartridges 
> > and all that stuff, I am thinking I will run over to 
cartridgeworld 
> > and have them fill up a black cartridge with either a mix of 
> magenta 
> > and yellow, or one or the other if they complain.  The reason 
for 
> > doing it this way, I can bypass the problem with the printer 
> > complaining about the wrong "Color" in the wrong slot and get 
past 
> all 
> > the stuff with the goofy chips on the cartridges.  My PCB layout 
> > software doesn't allow me to select which color to print with 
and I 
> > have not had any luck going to a PDF first, then changing the 
> colors 
> > there.  
> > 
> > Does this all seem to make sense and seem like a reasonable 
> direction 
> > to go?
> > 
> > I have taken the printer partially apart a while back and put it 
> back 
> > to gether again.  I hope to get a bit further this weekend if 
time 
> > allows.  There is a straight through path on this printer with 
the 
> > exception of "Something" on the right rear area that I have yet 
to 
> > find out what it is.  Hopefully that thing can be moved and the 
> > plastic just cut away to allow for clearance to feed a full, 8 
1/2" 
> > wide sheet of PCB material through in that area.
> > 
> > It also seems as though adding a heater is a good idea to allow 
for 

> > faster and better drying of the inks, so that too will be 
> considered 
> > along the way.  Any suggestions for a heater that could heat the 
> > entire width of the PCB board and allow for temperature control?
> > 
> > Chris
> >
>

Are you going to change to a pigmented ink. The R220 uses a dye based ink. I have a R220 and
thought it would work great because the head can be raised easily but I think dye based ink will
not work. Has anyone tried? I beleive the nozzles are smaller (true?) for dye base and that could
be a problem with pigments. So before modifing too much I think I would check the ink to see if it
works.

At least in the C84 the chips are just connected in parallel "dumb".
It can not judge which color is in which slot by the chip. All colors must  
be present or it will not get the right response when polling for all the  
colors, but it does not know the order. I had the chips soldered together  
as a stack away from the carriage, for easy (bulk) resetting, before i got  
the spongeless carts with auto-reset chips.

They might be very reluctant to fill a different color into the cart,  
certainy if they fill through the outlet valve with non-disposeable tools  
that could get contaminated. A tiny amount of black can color one heck of  
a lot of water, and of course ink.


About the heater, maybe a ceramic rod element like that from a radiation  
heater might work well. You'd need to hook it to a dimmer and let it  
settle or use feedback control. The hot air gun ought to be a quicker fix  
for trials.

ST

On Sat, 10 Feb 2007 14:39:17 +0100, lcdpublishing  
<lcdpublishing@...> wrote:

>
> It also seems as though adding a heater is a good idea to allow for
> faster and better drying of the inks, so that too will be considered
> along the way.  Any suggestions for a heater that could heat the
> entire width of the PCB board and allow for temperature control?
> Chris

William & Mycroft...

Hmmm, I thought that Mycroft was able to print and work with the 
standard inks from Epson - can you clarify?

I just ran a test board and all the ink came off using Ferric 
Chloride - long before etching was done.  Don't know if the MIS-PRO 
inks or any others will work in this printer because it is a dye ink 
printer.  Hmmmm, I may have just trashed a brand new printer :-(

Chris




--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, William Nelson <wnnelson@...> 
wrote:
>
> Are you going to change to a pigmented ink. The R220 uses a dye 
based ink. I have a R220 and
> thought it would work great because the head can be raised easily 
but I think dye based ink will
> not work. Has anyone tried? I beleive the nozzles are smaller 
(true?) for dye base and that could
> be a problem with pigments. So before modifing too much I think I 
would check the ink to see if it
> works.
>

I can not remember anyone actually making a board with a R series printer. There are some photos
in the photos section but they were only print trials. When I tried the software it would only
allow CD layout (round with hole). So to use in CD mode some software hack would be needed. I may
be wrong but I don't think the dye based inks will stand up to etch.

On Sat, 2007-02-10 at 13:39 +0000, lcdpublishing wrote:
> My PCB layout 
> software doesn't allow me to select which color to print with and I 
> have not had any luck going to a PDF first, then changing the colors 
> there. 

Here's another alternative - export your black artwork to a tiff file
(or eps or PDF if your software won't support tiff/jpeg/gif export).

Then, load the artwork into your favourite graphics editor. Do a 'select
areas by colour', then bucket-fill to pure magenta. Gimp supports this
really well. For *doze users, Photoshop should as well.

Then, save out the artwork as a different file and print it. Your
printer should obey just fine.

Or - if you feel like a bit of scripting - write a quick Python program
which uses the PIL API to read in the board and convert all black pixels
to magenta and save out the board. This will save all the mouse clicking
if you've got n boards to produce.

Good luck

Cheers
David

I cleaned out the Black ink cartridge in my old Canon SPx200 Bubble jet printer and replaced this with a magenta pigment based ink that was a suitable replacement for Durabrite and it printed just fine.

Thomas

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Durabrite on a Canon? what exactly is the SPx200?
wow! that's interesting to give it a try also...


> I cleaned out the Black ink cartridge in my old Canon SPx200 Bubble jet
> printer and replaced this with a magenta pigment based ink that was a
> suitable replacement for Durabrite and it printed just fine.



 
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oops it should be S200SPx ... its just an old banger so i thought why not ! and it worked just as good if not better than the proper ink !

> what exactly is the SPx200?


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Not Durabrite, but some 3rd party pigmented replacement. The important
question: Who? What brand of pigmented ink? Don't leave us wondering!

FYI: Canon black ink is pigmented. So it's not a total surprise that
magenta pigmented ink will work in it. In fact, there were some other
brands of wide format inkjet plotters that used four Canon black print
heads with CMYK pigmented colors in them.

Also: HP black is pigmented. Both Encad and HP's large format printers
use the HP black heads with suitable colors in them and can print dye
or pigmented ink. Older models used the 29 or 33 head, newer use the
15/45 head. I don't know what the current models use.

Sadly although I have a bunch of HP and Canon inkjets here, and some
MIS PRO pigmented ink, realistically I just don't have time to test
them in the near future. Too many commitments.

Another FYI: I am pretty sure to get HP and Canon to print -only-
black, you must set the driver to "black only" (or "Greyscale") -and-
set it on "Plain Paper". This may not be the same across printer models.

I have some laptop HP printers, the 310, 320, 340 series, that use
either just a black head or the combo color head, and have a straight
through paper path. I've been meaning to test HP's pigmented black on
some thin PCB stock I have. Again, time and committments.

Steve Greenfield


--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Herbert E. Plett"
<cachureos@...> wrote:
>
> Durabrite on a Canon? what exactly is the SPx200?
> wow! that's interesting to give it a try also...
> 
> 
> > I cleaned out the Black ink cartridge in my old Canon SPx200
Bubble jet

> > printer and replaced this with a magenta pigment based ink that was a
> > suitable replacement for Durabrite and it printed just fine.
>

What brand/type pigmented ink?

And since Canon black is pigmented, have you tested the Canon OEM black?

A warning about 3rd party replacement inks for Canon and HP: Very
often, the black in those refill kits and cheap cartridges are dye.

Steve Greenfield

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas" <teecee@...> wrote:
>
> I cleaned out the Black ink cartridge in my old Canon SPx200 Bubble
jet printer and replaced this with a magenta pigment based ink that
was a suitable replacement for Durabrite and it printed just fine.

With regards to Cartridge World, I would not give them my vote.........

I went to them to see about about buying one of their own brand cartridges,
and asked if it was dye or pigment........

It went like this

ME: are your refills for epsons cartridges dye or pigment inks

Shop Ass istant: if its what

ME: Dye or pigment ink

SA: its black, like the original

ME: Yes but some epson cartridges are dye based ink, and some are pigment
based ink, dye inks are not waterproof when dry

SA: Well its the same as epson, exactly the same quality

ME: yes but is it the same as epson dye or epson pigment

SA: Well its the same,  but I'll have to ring the other shop to check.

ME: waits, listens to giggles form the back room

(returns)

SA: Its dye ink so it dyes the paper

ME: ok so its not waterproof like epson ink, so its not the same

SA: No its as good as epson, will be identical, and if theirs is waterproof
ours will be

ME: Ok I left my money in the car, wont be a minute....


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

the ink I tried is from Oliser and Pigmented, as for the canon OEM black 
thats not yet tested, I believe these refill inks are just a cheap Dye.... 
and asking Q's with the shop assistants turns on the "Screen saver look" 
some give the BSOD !!
Hey you know when you whistle really softly at your Dog and it just tilts 
its head to the side with a stare trying to tune in on the sound ... 
something like that. LOL

I hear ya Lez !
Thomas

>What brand/type pigmented ink?
>And since Canon black is pigmented, have you tested the Canon OEM black?
>A warning about 3rd party replacement inks for Canon and HP: Very
>often, the black in those refill kits and cheap cartridges are dye.

On Sunday 11 February 2007 20:18, Thomas wrote:
> the ink I tried is from Oliser and Pigmented, as for the canon OEM black
>snip<
You might try:
http://www.inknstuff.com

No connection, other than a satisfied customer for several years.
-- 
Keith Bowers - Thomasville, NC