Homebrew PCBs

Its arrived bang on my estimate of thursday, I know our next day
parcel guys.......

(seems they only work the 'next day')

Anyhow, powered up and held p1+p2 and I get a selftest chart. yippee!

few pens dry but hell it came with lots of spare pens

So I plugged in the serial cable which I guess previous owner had
already chipped as it had a 9 pin fitted, one less job, this is
looking good!

So I dropped to a command window(xp) and set my comport to 9600 8n1
and copied one fo my previous hpgl files to it........

Oh dear........

It seems to not like anything I send, I have viewed them in 'ableview'
and they look fine to me, but it draws nothing like what it should be
and even eventually goes off the paper.

Oh how I could easily kick the cat.

Anyclues anyone, I had visions of lovely pcb's by the evening.........


-- 

Lez

On Thu, 23 Nov 2006 12:19:17 +0100, Lez <lez.briddon@...> wrote:

>
> Anyclues anyone, I had visions of lovely pcb's by the evening.........


Must be an "over the pond" thing, around here we call them delusions ;-)

If your page is larger than the paper the pen will come off.
Can you see how large the page is supposed to be in your viewer software?

The files are similar to CNC programming, you can "decode" them manually  
in the text editor.
Start with a single straight line.

ST

kick your pc (+xp).
  :)
  (= selftest chart was ok.)

Lez <lez.briddon@...> wrote:
          Its arrived bang on my estimate of thursday, I know our next day
parcel guys.......

(seems they only work the 'next day')

Anyhow, powered up and held p1+p2 and I get a selftest chart. yippee!

few pens dry but hell it came with lots of spare pens

So I plugged in the serial cable which I guess previous owner had
already chipped as it had a 9 pin fitted, one less job, this is
looking good!

So I dropped to a command window(xp) and set my comport to 9600 8n1
and copied one fo my previous hpgl files to it........

Oh dear........

It seems to not like anything I send, I have viewed them in 'ableview'
and they look fine to me, but it draws nothing like what it should be
and even eventually goes off the paper.

Oh how I could easily kick the cat.

Anyclues anyone, I had visions of lovely pcb's by the evening.........

-- 

Lez


         

 
---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Thu, 23 Nov 2006 12:57:19 +0100, guja <guja2001bg@...> wrote:

> kick your pc (+xp).
>   :)
>   (= selftest chart was ok.)


I can definitely confirm that that plotter will work with XP, i've done  
it, just don't ask me how exactly.

ST

On 23/11/06, guja <guja2001bg@...> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
> kick your pc (+xp).
>    :)
>    (= selftest chart was ok.)

Lol yeah!

Ok I have tried once again to output a file with eagle (Set to hpgl)
and copy file to com1: but it went mad again.

I did some googling, found signgo lite, says its for cutting but hey
how does the plotter know.......

So I set that up for hpgl, plotter tries to draw something then goes mad.

I set it for universal, and I have a cutout ouf a cow........

(yes that was my test image, it was the only *.wmf I could find on my
pc to import, seems to not like bmp(?))

Anyhow experimenting with this I have found that xon/xoff has no
effect, rts/cts/ has no efffect, but if I unclick dtr/dsr then then it
starts ok for a about 3 seconds then I get the error led flashing.





Lez

> Anyhow experimenting with this I have found that xon/xoff has no
> effect, rts/cts/ has no efffect, but if I unclick dtr/dsr then then it
> starts ok for a about 3 seconds then I get the error led flashing.
>

Which is irrelevant I suppose as its not hadshaking thats failing me
its the command format or something.......

I'll keep trying other drivers etc, just dumbfounded at the moment.

Happy with it though, but the carosel makes some awful noises on
startup, like its trying to turn but cant, but then when the selftest
starts all pen swaps are flawless.

I did not think a paper shuffler would be this good but I'm sure I can
get this doinf simple low res pcb's in no time now, may be able to
refill the original pens....

SUCCESS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Someone (when I fighting the calcomp) sent me this...

PU1000,1000;
PD;CI500;
PU;


And when copied to the comport, draws a circle about 1 inch across on the paper.

Progress is being made.....

On Thu, 23 Nov 2006 14:24:50 +0100, Lez <lez.briddon@...> wrote:

> SUCCESS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> Someone (when I fighting the calcomp) sent me this...
> PU1000,1000;
> PD;CI500;
> PU;
> And when copied to the comport, draws a circle about 1 inch across on  
> the paper.
> Progress is being made.....


That's what i meant about the CNC-like commands.
You can find them on the web.


ST

On Thu, 23 Nov 2006 14:06:19 +0100, Lez <lez.briddon@...> wrote:

>
> I did not think a paper shuffler would be this good but I'm sure I can
> get this doinf simple low res pcb's in no time now, may be able to
> refill the original pens....


Good on you!

Just don't count your chickens yet.

ST

>
> Good on you!
>
> Just don't count your chickens yet.
>

Well I have got a good looking one on paper, and I have managed to get
a top off one the old pens, standard fluff filled design, so I checked
another, seems to be two line widths, p3 and p7, I have filled the p7
with the fluff from a green disk pen, now waiting for ink to work its
way through, its still drawing yellow so should see a change soon.

Other one I filled with all the fluff from a black sharpie.

just tried taping a piece of pcb to a sheet of paper, I can see paper
is not a good carrier and need to find something thin but stronger.

Stephen Lane wrote:
    Took me a while to unearth my HPColorPro Plotter it is a 7440 I 
believe but I use a Winline 7475A Driver to drive it. I have taken apart 
the cable (It has a lable attached says "AT Serial 9-25").
Connections are
25pin M to 9 pin F
2-----------2
3-----------3
6-----------4
20----------1
5 to 8          6 to 8
Which is to be expected & there is a Large Friendly lable that I stuck 
on the front of the plotter reminding me to set the Comport to Hardware 
control, The Dip switches are set to 9600Baud etc & to be a Serial 
interface not a HPIB one
    I actually got the cable with my Mutoh Lg Format Plotter but this 
cable does work (I've just sent a illustrator file to it (quick & dirty))

I hope this helps.
Regards
Stephen Lane

On Thu, 23 Nov 2006 16:31:36 +0100, Lez <lez.briddon@...> wrote:

>
> Well I have got a good looking one on paper, and I have managed to get
> a top off one the old pens, standard fluff filled design, so I checked
> another, seems to be two line widths, p3 and p7, I have filled the p7
> with the fluff from a green disk pen, now waiting for ink to work its
> way through, its still drawing yellow so should see a change soon.
> Other one I filled with all the fluff from a black sharpie.
> just tried taping a piece of pcb to a sheet of paper, I can see paper
> is not a good carrier and need to find something thin but stronger.


Thin cardboard worked fine for me.
I still think you are wasting your time and money, but hey, better that  
than drink and tobacco ;-)

ST

Oh joy of joys.............

Since non of my hpgl software seems to want to work my hpgl plotter, it made
me think that maybe that was whythe calcomp had never worked, because it
knew the format/data of the file was wrong..........

Well now that I have 'signgo' and its working the HP plotter, should I plug
in the calcomp...

Using the HP lead I plugged it in and pressed 'cut' and off it went into an
imaginary world of vinyl cutting.

It then said cut completed, and calcomp had not moved an inch, I pressed the
p1 / p2 / enter buttons, nothing, I pressed view, and it started to jiggle
about............

eh??????????

I grabbed a badly fitting pen and a roll of tape, fighting with the plotter
to tape this pen on while it was still jiggling about, quickly getting a
piece of papar under it it was off, another cow!

It look genetically modified and very ill but it was my test cow!

further playing and I have managed to rig a pen on it and have managed to
get it to go again, and I have found the cause of it being dead when I spent
like 3 days building different cables....

Its thge view button, it defaults on powerup to 'view' mode, which means
'dont plot', I have to press the enter button, then the chart button, then
the view button, and its ready to go..........


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Nov 23, 2006, at 8:01 AM, Lez wrote:

> So I set that up for hpgl, plotter tries to draw something then  
> goes mad.
>
> I set it for universal, and I have a cutout ouf a cow........
>
> (yes that was my test image, it was the only *.wmf I could find on my
> pc to import, seems to not like bmp(?))



I was sure someone would have mentioned this:   plotters draw  
lines.    Bitmaps don't have lines to draw, they have bits.


It's the essential difference between vector art and bitmaps:    
vector art is made up of lines, so if you save in hpgl it will go  
through your plotter well.

Bitmaps, like photos, will look to the plotter as if they're made up  
of millions of very short squiggly lines.   Not good.

You can produce vector art with Freehand, Illustrator, FlexiSign Pro,  
dozens of apps.



If you want to convert a bitmap to vector, you'd need to either  
import the bitmap and draw over it in vector, or use an automated  
converter.

I've used a couple and they're not, um perfect.

Of course if you're using a PCB layout app it might have a vector  
output option.

William Carr












[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On 23/11/06, William Carr <Jkirk3279@...> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  On Nov 23, 2006, at 8:01 AM, Lez wrote:
>
>  > So I set that up for hpgl, plotter tries to draw something then
>  > goes mad.
>  >
>  > I set it for universal, and I have a cutout ouf a cow........
>  >
>  > (yes that was my test image, it was the only *.wmf I could find on my
>  > pc to import, seems to not like bmp(?))
>
>  I was sure someone would have mentioned this:   plotters draw
>  lines.    Bitmaps don't have lines to draw, they have bits.
>

Re-read you missed the point........
The fault is not in the wmf/bmp area, as on screen I can see it in
vector, but when I select 'cut' it does nothing, change the driver
from hpgl to universal, then it works. I have an HP that does not like
talking HP................

Maybe its an esperanto version...........



>  I've used a couple and they're not, um perfect.

No its best guessing without any insight as to what the image is.


>  Of course if you're using a PCB layout app it might have a vector
>  output option.

It does not.

If it did, I would use it, then again, eagle has, and that wont plot
either.......

BUT outputting as bmp/wmf then converting, then loading into some
cutter software, and setting to 'universal not hpgl' works

I cant explain that, I dont know enough to try, but if I connect my HP
plotter and select HPGL as the driver it does not work!

But like I said, my pcb app does not do hpgl, well not in the economy version.

Odd thing is the universal drive works the calcomp now so the HP will
be going back on ebay at the weekend, the calcomp beats it hands down
on both versatility and speed.



Lez

--- Lez <lez.briddon@...> wrote:

> On 23/11/06, guja <guja2001bg@...> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > kick your pc (+xp).
> >    :)
> >    (= selftest chart was ok.)
> 
> Lol yeah!
> 
> Ok I have tried once again to output a file with
> eagle (Set to hpgl)
> and copy file to com1: but it went mad again.
> 
> I did some googling, found signgo lite, says its for
> cutting but hey
> how does the plotter know.......
> 
> So I set that up for hpgl, plotter tries to draw
> something then goes mad.
> 
> I set it for universal, and I have a cutout ouf a
> cow........
> 
> (yes that was my test image, it was the only *.wmf I
> could find on my
> pc to import, seems to not like bmp(?))
> 
> Anyhow experimenting with this I have found that
> xon/xoff has no
> effect, rts/cts/ has no efffect, but if I unclick
> dtr/dsr then then it
> starts ok for a about 3 seconds then I get the error
> led flashing.

May be a scaling problem. My long ago defunct plotter
had a 1/10 mm step size. Unfortunately most software
outputs in mils. So I ended up drawing IC's with 10 mm
pin spacing rather than the expected 100 mils (2.54
mm).

Solved it with a perl script that read in the file and
converted before spitting it out at the plotter.

- YD.



 
____________________________________________________________________________________
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On 23/11/06, YD <yd_br@...> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  --- Lez <lez.briddon@...> wrote:
>
>  > On 23/11/06, guja <guja2001bg@...> wrote:
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > > kick your pc (+xp).
>  > >    :)
>  > >    (= selftest chart was ok.)
>  >
>  > Lol yeah!
>  >
>  > Ok I have tried once again to output a file with
>  > eagle (Set to hpgl)
>  > and copy file to com1: but it went mad again.
>  >
>  > I did some googling, found signgo lite, says its for
>  > cutting but hey
>  > how does the plotter know.......
>  >
>  > So I set that up for hpgl, plotter tries to draw
>  > something then goes mad.
>  >
>  > I set it for universal, and I have a cutout ouf a
>  > cow........
>  >
>  > (yes that was my test image, it was the only *.wmf I
>  > could find on my
>  > pc to import, seems to not like bmp(?))
>  >
>  > Anyhow experimenting with this I have found that
>  > xon/xoff has no
>  > effect, rts/cts/ has no efffect, but if I unclick
>  > dtr/dsr then then it
>  > starts ok for a about 3 seconds then I get the error
>  > led flashing.
>
>  May be a scaling problem. My long ago defunct plotter
>  had a 1/10 mm step size. Unfortunately most software
>  outputs in mils. So I ended up drawing IC's with 10 mm
>  pin spacing rather than the expected 100 mils (2.54
>  mm).

My CB software does gerber / dxf and has no hpgl support, so I am
outputting in bmp, converting to wmf, importing that into vinylcutting
software, it appears about the size of a postage stamp, I then stretch
it back to true size, and then tell it to 'cut'.......

Its really fun that way.......

The only problem I have it is the cutter software wont work if I tell
it I have an hpgl plotter, I have to tell it I have a 'universal'
plotter, if I set it to hpgl, the plotter just flashes its error
light.

What I need to test this 'problem' further to resolve it is some
*free* software that has native HPGL output, and dont say eagle!



I really cant understand why 'diptrace' with I really have come to
love, does not support HPGL when is so 'standard'

I'm off to email them.......

Lez

On Fri, 24 Nov 2006 10:20:47 +0100, Lez <lez.briddon@...> wrote:

> My CB software does gerber / dxf and has no hpgl support, so I am
> outputting in bmp, converting to wmf, importing that into vinylcutting
> software, it appears about the size of a postage stamp, I then stretch
> it back to true size, and then tell it to 'cut'.......
> Its really fun that way.......
> The only problem I have it is the cutter software wont work if I tell
> it I have an hpgl plotter, I have to tell it I have a 'universal'
> plotter, if I set it to hpgl, the plotter just flashes its error
> light.
> What I need to test this 'problem' further to resolve it is some
> *free* software that has native HPGL output, and dont say eagle!
> I really cant understand why 'diptrace' with I really have come to
> love, does not support HPGL when is so 'standard'
> I'm off to email them.......
> Lez


Maybe you can find a software that converts from gerber to HPGL.
I used "gerbtool" which came with orcad, back then, which did that.
But it ain't free, maybe check if it comes with the eval CD.

Anyway, gerber is vector, so you may have luck finding a converter.

ST

----- Original Message ----

From: Lez <lez.briddon@...>

To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, 24 November, 2006 9:20:47 AM

Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] The plotter has arrived!



                              On 23/11/06, YD <yd_br@yahoo. com> wrote:


<snip>

 > What I need to test this 'problem' further to resolve it is some

 > *free* software that has native HPGL output, and dont say eagle!

 

<snip>

I think KiCAD meets your Spec above - it can output in both HPGL and Gerber, is Open Source (GPL) and isn't Eagle.  

It is linked from this group's page and there has been discussion on it in the group in the past.

http://www.lis.inpg.fr/realise_au_lis/kicad/

It wasn't completely clear to me the first time, but you only need to download one file - for Windows I think the right file is kicad-2006-08-28.zip

Lance.



Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

--- Lez <lez.briddon@...> wrote:

> What I need to test this 'problem' further to
> resolve it is some
> *free* software that has native HPGL output, and
> dont say eagle!
> 
> 
> 
> I really cant understand why 'diptrace' with I
> really have come to
> love, does not support HPGL when is so 'standard'
> 
> I'm off to email them.......
> 
> Lez
> 

KiCad. I just looked and hpgl is in the plotting
options. I didn't try it as ATM I have no way of
checking it.

- YD.



 
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