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direct inkjet printing

direct inkjet printing

2006-05-10 by Stefan Trethan

Ok, so now i have this printer firing on all nozzles according to the  
nozzle test pattern.

I filled black with mostly yellow and a small amount of black MISPRO ink  
mixed in.

Even with all nozzles firing according to nozzle test i still see the  
lines of the nozzles, even on paper. So on a PCB this basically causes  
lotsa little gaps between the individual lines.

After baking the color resists sufficiently, i can get a pcb with many  
parallel very fine lines.

It seems the distance between the lines (or missing lines?) is not the  
same, when i print a block of color it looks like some lines are simply  
missing, periodically. How is this possible when according to the nozzle  
check pattern all nozzles are firing?

So what now? Any ideas? Does this mean one needs a printer with higher  
resolution such as Volkan used?

BTW Steve, thanks for your instructions! Your cleaning mix and the method  
of putting it on the parking station cleaned the two stubborn nozzles  
right up!

So what now? what about the gaps, and what do we do about the puddling?
Any ideas?

This printer would take small strips of PCBs no problem, no modification  
needed. I just drop them in on the moving sheet of paper. But the strips  
must be narrow enough to fit around the bend of the paper feeder (a bit  
over an inch does still fit fine). Would be easy to cut up for larger PCBs  
though.


ST

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] direct inkjet printing

2006-05-10 by Alan King

Stefan Trethan wrote:

>Ok, so now i have this printer firing on all nozzles according to the  
>nozzle test pattern.
>
>I filled black with mostly yellow and a small amount of black MISPRO ink  
>mixed in.
>
>Even with all nozzles firing according to nozzle test i still see the  
>lines of the nozzles, even on paper. So on a PCB this basically causes  
>lotsa little gaps between the individual lines.
>
>After baking the color resists sufficiently, i can get a pcb with many  
>parallel very fine lines.
>
>It seems the distance between the lines (or missing lines?) is not the  
>same, when i print a block of color it looks like some lines are simply  
>missing, periodically. How is this possible when according to the nozzle  
>check pattern all nozzles are firing?
>
>  
>
  Air inside the cart?  I think some Epson carts are problematic with 
that.  Or try to reseat the cable at the head and the board, maybe just 
bad contact as it's moving around.



>So what now? Any ideas? Does this mean one needs a printer with higher  
>resolution such as Volkan used?
>  
>
  Is it on the highest setting?  Photo or whatever may be the only time 
it fills in, it's slower and does multiple passes.  That and heaviest 
ink..  There are definitely differences, some may just have poorer 
coverage or resolution..


>BTW Steve, thanks for your instructions! Your cleaning mix and the method  
>of putting it on the parking station cleaned the two stubborn nozzles  
>right up!
>
>So what now? what about the gaps, and what do we do about the puddling?
>Any ideas?
>
>This printer would take small strips of PCBs no problem, no modification  
>needed. I just drop them in on the moving sheet of paper. But the strips  
>must be narrow enough to fit around the bend of the paper feeder (a bit  
>over an inch does still fit fine). Would be easy to cut up for larger PCBs  
>though.
>
>
>  
>
  Haven't even looked at the one I got last night, and maybe just 
snagged another Epson to go along with it..  For everyone not on 
Freecycle get on it, and check your inbox often.  Have to set up an 
autoresponder for printer and a few other words..  Non-functional, so I 
don't feel too bad about getting them either, most wouldn't mess with 
them enough to get them back into running condition.  Get the impression 
half of the stuff just goes somewhere else to sit around, many things 
get put back up.

Alan

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] direct inkjet printing

2006-05-10 by Stefan Trethan

On Thu, 11 May 2006 00:02:42 +0200, Alan King <alan@...> wrote:

>  For everyone not on
> Freecycle get on it, and check your inbox often.


Don't have one here, well, none that works.
There is one in vienna, which actually among a handful of items has a  
stylus color 600 - same i already have.

But basically there's not much on it - you know what they say about  
Scotsmen, well, they are considered generous here ;-)

ST

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] direct inkjet printing

2006-05-10 by Volkan Sahin

Hi Stephan,
Try to use a color which corresponds mixture of 3 colors+black by this way you can decrease the effects of clogged nozzle.
Volkan

Stefan Trethan <stefan_trethan@...> wrote: 
Ok, so now i have this printer firing on all nozzles according to the  
nozzle test pattern.




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] direct inkjet printing

2006-05-11 by Lez

I dont think the missing nozzles are blocked, I think its ink saving,
ie the printer epects the ink to bleed and fill the gaps, which is not
happening because its not the usual ink/paper combination it thinks it
is

Some lasers do this as 'toner saver', but not the old ones, thats why
a garage/boot sale laser from 20 years ago is good buy imho for tt
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On 11/05/06, Volkan Sahin <vsahin@...> wrote:
> Hi Stephan,
> Try to use a color which corresponds mixture of 3 colors+black by this way you can decrease the effects of clogged nozzle.
> Volkan
>

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] direct inkjet printing

2006-05-11 by Stefan Trethan

I did some more tests today.

The gaps become much smaller if i select black/white in the printer driver  
and photo quality, but i still don't get a closed area.

Found that heating the PCB eliminates the puddling.

Guess i should try what volkan suggests and put some ink in the color cart  
and try to use all heads.


Volkan, don't you have any puddling at all?
Which printers did you say you used?

Who else is out there in the process of trying this?

thanks

ST


On Thu, 11 May 2006 01:05:51 +0200, Volkan Sahin <vsahin@...>  
wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> Hi Stephan,
> Try to use a color which corresponds mixture of 3 colors+black by this  
> way you can decrease the effects of clogged nozzle.
> Volkan
> Stefan Trethan <stefan_trethan@...> wrote:
> Ok, so now i have this printer firing on all nozzles according to the
> nozzle test pattern.

Re: direct inkjet printing

2006-05-11 by lcdpublishing

My status is "On hold" for a bit. I HAVE to get some things done 
before I can get back to figuring out my printer.  It is cut apart 
and the path is cleared for PCBs.  It is having "Start up" problems 
though.  Once I get past that, I should be ready to do some tests.  
Hopefully in about 1 1/2 weeks or so, or if I am REAL lucky, this 
weekend.

Pre-heating the board prevents the puddling?  Hmmm, I am wondering 
if Volkans use of the Tarnex is giving him better flow and even 
surface tension (or whatever the hell that is called) to prevent the 
puddling.



Chris



--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Trethan" 
<stefan_trethan@...> wrote:
>
> I did some more tests today.
> 
> The gaps become much smaller if i select black/white in the 
printer driver  
> and photo quality, but i still don't get a closed area.
> 
> Found that heating the PCB eliminates the puddling.
> 
> Guess i should try what volkan suggests and put some ink in the 
color cart  
> and try to use all heads.
> 
> 
> Volkan, don't you have any puddling at all?
> Which printers did you say you used?
> 
> Who else is out there in the process of trying this?
> 
> thanks
> 
> ST
> 
> 
> On Thu, 11 May 2006 01:05:51 +0200, Volkan Sahin <vsahin@...>  
> wrote:
> 
> > Hi Stephan,
> > Try to use a color which corresponds mixture of 3 colors+black 
by this  
> > way you can decrease the effects of clogged nozzle.
> > Volkan
> > Stefan Trethan <stefan_trethan@...> wrote:
> > Ok, so now i have this printer firing on all nozzles according 
to the
> > nozzle test pattern.
>

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] direct inkjet printing

2006-05-11 by Lez

I just took delivery of a pair of dell 810's, single colour cartridge
and no black, so it uses all heads for black........

seems its a lexmark re-badged, can I get good ink into one of these cartridges ?

These printers are 26ukp for 2 delivered, a replacement cartridge is
22ukp........

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] direct inkjet printing

2006-05-11 by Volkan Sahin

Hi Stefan,
I am using Epson CX4200 and I can say that  I didn't see any puddling. If it is possible send me some photos of puddling and let me compare. If ink amount seems to be too much you can try to adjust printer settings.
I am always using 3 colors and each color has 90 nozzles as far as I remember. I am in office now so I didn't remember all settings, this night I can check and send you the settings that I am using. 
Volkan

Stefan Trethan <stefan_trethan@...> wrote:Volkan, don't you have any puddling at all?
Which printers did you say you used?




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: direct inkjet printing

2006-05-12 by gjm45janssen

Dear Volkan,

When I read about your results in direct printing on PCB, I was really 
impressed. I am trying to set up an EPSON Stylus C70 printer for this 
purpose. The regular paper input however does not allow normal PCB 
material of 1.6 mm. How did you solve this problem?
In the C70 there is a way to get a flat path by entering the paper/PCB 
below the paper carriage. However, the printer does not accept this. 
When I move a page till the paper feed (PF) roller, the presence of 
the page is detected but not accepted for printing. It is just moved 
out of the printer without being printed. Can you give some hints on 
how to create a flat path and a reference position that is accepted by 
the printer.

With kind regards,

Gerard Janssen

PS. Sorry when this is more an interuption of the thread. This is my 
first post on this forum

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Volkan Sahin <vsahin@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Stefan,
> I am using Epson CX4200 and I can say that  I didn't see any 
puddling. If it is possible send me some photos of puddling and let me 
compare. If ink amount seems to be too much you can try to adjust 
printer settings.
> I am always using 3 colors and each color has 90 nozzles as far as I 
remember. I am in office now so I didn't remember all settings, this 
night I can check and send you the settings that I am using. 
> Volkan
> 
> Stefan Trethan <stefan_trethan@...> wrote:Volkan, don't you have any 
puddling at all?
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> Which printers did you say you used?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: direct inkjet printing

2006-05-12 by roger lucas

Chris,

I suggested this a while back, and am still convinced
that Tarn-X is somehow involved in this, maybe just to
the extent that rubbing the board creates an
electrostatic charge which causes the ink to hold
rather than puddle.

The obvious thing is for Volkan to try making a board
without using Tarn-X and see what, if any, difference
occurs.

I don't think Tarn-X is available in the UK anyway.


Meanwhile, I think I will continue with the EDM
development until I see how this one pans out.

Roger


>--- lcdpublishing <lcdpublishing@...> wrote:
>
>Hmmm, I am wondering 
>if Volkans use of the Tarnex is giving him better
>flow and even 
>surface tension (or whatever the hell that is called)
>to prevent the 
>puddling.

Chris



--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Trethan"

<stefan_trethan@...> wrote:
>
> I did some more tests today.
> 
> The gaps become much smaller if i select black/white
in the 
printer driver  
> and photo quality, but i still don't get a closed
area.
> 
> Found that heating the PCB eliminates the puddling.
> 
> Guess i should try what volkan suggests and put some
ink in the 
color cart  
> and try to use all heads.
> 
> 
> Volkan, don't you have any puddling at all?
> Which printers did you say you used?
> 
> Who else is out there in the process of trying this?
> 
> thanks
> 
> ST
> 
> 
> On Thu, 11 May 2006 01:05:51 +0200, Volkan Sahin
<vsahin@...>  
> wrote:
> 
> > Hi Stephan,
> > Try to use a color which corresponds mixture of 3
colors+black 
by this  
> > way you can decrease the effects of clogged
nozzle.
> > Volkan
> > Stefan Trethan <stefan_trethan@...> wrote:
> > Ok, so now i have this printer firing on all
nozzles according 
to the
> > nozzle test pattern.
>






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Re: direct inkjet printing

2006-05-12 by lcdpublishing

Hopefully I will be in a hardware store or even grocery store this 
weekend and I will pick some tarnex up.  Even if I don't have time 
for working on the printer, I can still do some experiments with the 
Tarn-x to see if I can notic a difference.

The EDM does sound very interesting too and at some point in time I 
will probably go that route too - just because it sounds so cool to 
experiment with and learn about.  But, in order for me to even 
attempt it, I will need all you "brainiacs" to figure all the 
electronics out :-)



--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, roger lucas <ralucas4277@...> 
wrote:
>
> Chris,
> 
> I suggested this a while back, and am still convinced
> that Tarn-X is somehow involved in this, maybe just to
> the extent that rubbing the board creates an
> electrostatic charge which causes the ink to hold
> rather than puddle.
> 
> The obvious thing is for Volkan to try making a board
> without using Tarn-X and see what, if any, difference
> occurs.
> 
> I don't think Tarn-X is available in the UK anyway.
> 
> 
> Meanwhile, I think I will continue with the EDM
> development until I see how this one pans out.
> 
> Roger
> 
> 
> >--- lcdpublishing <lcdpublishing@...> wrote:
> >
> >Hmmm, I am wondering 
> >if Volkans use of the Tarnex is giving him better
> >flow and even 
> >surface tension (or whatever the hell that is called)
> >to prevent the 
> >puddling.
> 
> Chris
> 
> 
> 
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Trethan"
> 
> <stefan_trethan@> wrote:
> >
> > I did some more tests today.
> > 
> > The gaps become much smaller if i select black/white
> in the 
> printer driver  
> > and photo quality, but i still don't get a closed
> area.
> > 
> > Found that heating the PCB eliminates the puddling.
> > 
> > Guess i should try what volkan suggests and put some
> ink in the 
> color cart  
> > and try to use all heads.
> > 
> > 
> > Volkan, don't you have any puddling at all?
> > Which printers did you say you used?
> > 
> > Who else is out there in the process of trying this?
> > 
> > thanks
> > 
> > ST
> > 
> > 
> > On Thu, 11 May 2006 01:05:51 +0200, Volkan Sahin
> <vsahin@>  
> > wrote:
> > 
> > > Hi Stephan,
> > > Try to use a color which corresponds mixture of 3
> colors+black 
> by this  
> > > way you can decrease the effects of clogged
> nozzle.
> > > Volkan
> > > Stefan Trethan <stefan_trethan@> wrote:
> > > Ok, so now i have this printer firing on all
> nozzles according 
> to the
> > > nozzle test pattern.
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new
> Links, Files, and Photos:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
> 
> If Files or Photos are running short of space, post
> them here:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs_Archives/
> 
>       
> 
>       SPONSORED LINKS  
>                                                
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>                                                    
>     
> ---------------------------------
>   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> 
>   
>     Visit your group "Homebrew_PCBs" on the web.
>    
>     To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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> 
> 
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Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: direct inkjet printing

2006-05-12 by roger lucas

Chris

Good idea.

Regarding the EDM, I have been toying with the idea of
producing a couple of small modules incorporating the
feed wire drive and spark control electronics for
people to attach to a cnc machine in order to have a
working unit quickly. The unit is not difficult to
make if you have some machine shop equipment already,
but you do need some precision for the mechanics.

I'll note any interest and keep any interested parties
posted.

Roger


>--- lcdpublishing <lcdpublishing@...> wrote:
>
>Hopefully I will be in a hardware store or even
>grocery store this 
>weekend and I will pick some tarnex up.  Even if I
>don't have time 
>for working on the printer, I can still do some
>experiments with the 
>Tarn-x to see if I can notic a difference.
>
>The EDM does sound very interesting too and at some
>point in time I 
>will probably go that route too - just because it
>sounds so cool to 
>experiment with and learn about.  But, in order for
>me to even 
>attempt it, I will need all you "brainiacs" to figure
>all the 
>electronics out :-)







Be sure to visit the group home and check for new
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Re: direct inkjet printing

2006-05-12 by lcdpublishing

Hi Roger,

I have a mill and a lathe, so I am in pretty good shape to make some 
stuff.  The mechanicals are not much of a problem for me, it's the 
darn electronics.  I am learning (thanks to all the guys at 
Electronics 101), but still don't know my bottom from a hole in the 
ground about it all.

Yes, keep us posted on that EDM.  

Chris



--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, roger lucas <ralucas4277@...> 
wrote:
>
> Chris
> 
> Good idea.
> 
> Regarding the EDM, I have been toying with the idea of
> producing a couple of small modules incorporating the
> feed wire drive and spark control electronics for
> people to attach to a cnc machine in order to have a
> working unit quickly. The unit is not difficult to
> make if you have some machine shop equipment already,
> but you do need some precision for the mechanics.
> 
> I'll note any interest and keep any interested parties
> posted.
> 
> Roger
> 
> 
> >--- lcdpublishing <lcdpublishing@...> wrote:
> >
> >Hopefully I will be in a hardware store or even
> >grocery store this 
> >weekend and I will pick some tarnex up.  Even if I
> >don't have time 
> >for working on the printer, I can still do some
> >experiments with the 
> >Tarn-x to see if I can notic a difference.
> >
> >The EDM does sound very interesting too and at some
> >point in time I 
> >will probably go that route too - just because it
> >sounds so cool to 
> >experiment with and learn about.  But, in order for
> >me to even 
> >attempt it, I will need all you "brainiacs" to figure
> >all the 
> >electronics out :-)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new
> Links, Files, and Photos:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
> 
> If Files or Photos are running short of space, post
> them here:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs_Archives/
> 
>       
> 
>       SPONSORED LINKS  
>                                                
> Electrical engineering degree online                  
>                  Electrical engineering degree        
>                            Printed circuit board      
>                                                       
>   Electrical engineering                              
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>                                                    
>     
> ---------------------------------
>   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> 
>   
>     Visit your group "Homebrew_PCBs" on the web.
>    
>     To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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>    
>     Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
> Terms of Service.
> 
>   
> ---------------------------------
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 		
> ___________________________________________________________ 
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>

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: direct inkjet printing

2006-05-12 by Volkan Sahin

Hi Gerard,
I have faced the same problem. I designed a microcontroller board which generates paper switch and paper detect signals according to x-y position. I am getting X & Y position information from  the existing optical encoders of the printer. 
On some Epson printers they are using step motor for Y-axis, in this case you can get Y position info by counting  step pulses applied to the motor but before applying to micro you need to reduce voltage level and filter the chopping components by simple RC.
I did some mechanical  modification to accept 1.6mm board. I trim the  two  head height adjustment levers and resize the hole of the head rail rod used to hold the rod. 
Cheers,
Volkan

 

gjm45janssen <g.janssen@...> wrote:    Dear Volkan,
 
 When I read about your results in direct printing on PCB, I was really 
 impressed. I am trying to set up an EPSON Stylus C70 printer for this 
 purpose. The regular paper input however does not allow normal PCB 
 material of 1.6 mm. How did you solve this problem?
 In the C70 there is a way to get a flat path by entering the paper/PCB 
 below the paper carriage. However, the printer does not accept this. 
 When I move a page till the paper feed (PF) roller, the presence of 
 the page is detected but not accepted for printing. It is just moved 
 out of the printer without being printed. Can you give some hints on 
 how to create a flat path and a reference position that is accepted by 
 the printer.
 
 With kind regards,
 
 Gerard Janssen
 
 PS. Sorry when this is more an interuption of the thread. This is my 
 first post on this forum
 
 --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Volkan Sahin <vsahin@...> wrote:
 >
 > Hi Stefan,
 > I am using Epson CX4200 and I can say that  I didn't see any 
 puddling. If it is possible send me some photos of puddling and let me 
 compare. If ink amount seems to be too much you can try to adjust 
 printer settings.
 > I am always using 3 colors and each color has 90 nozzles as far as I 
 remember. I am in office now so I didn't remember all settings, this 
 night I can check and send you the settings that I am using. 
 > Volkan
 > 
 > Stefan Trethan <stefan_trethan@...> wrote:Volkan, don't you have any 
 puddling at all?
 > Which printers did you say you used?
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
 >
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
     

  Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
 
 If Files or Photos are running short of space, post them here:
 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs_Archives/ 

              

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---------------------------------
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---------------------------------
 
 
     


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: direct inkjet printing

2006-05-12 by gjm45janssen

Dear Volkan,

Thanks for the information. Challenging achievements are never simple. 
I need to study printer operation more to figure out which control 
signals are needed where and when, especially why it does not accept 
input directly based on detection by the paper feed switch.

Which printer do you regard most suitable for this task? CX4200 or 
would you choose another one based on the experience you have now.

With kind regards,

Gerard Janssen

 

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Volkan Sahin <vsahin@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Gerard,
> I have faced the same problem. I designed a microcontroller board 
which generates paper switch and paper detect signals according to x-y 
position. I am getting X & Y position information from  the existing 
optical encoders of the printer. 
> On some Epson printers they are using step motor for Y-axis, in this 
case you can get Y position info by counting  step pulses applied to 
the motor but before applying to micro you need to reduce voltage 
level and filter the chopping components by simple RC.
> I did some mechanical  modification to accept 1.6mm board. I trim 
the  two  head height adjustment levers and resize the hole of the 
head rail rod used to hold the rod. 
> Cheers,
> Volkan
> 
>  
> 
> gjm45janssen <g.janssen@...> wrote:    Dear Volkan,
>  
>  When I read about your results in direct printing on PCB, I was 
really 
>  impressed. I am trying to set up an EPSON Stylus C70 printer for 
this 
>  purpose. The regular paper input however does not allow normal PCB 
>  material of 1.6 mm. How did you solve this problem?
>  In the C70 there is a way to get a flat path by entering the paper/
PCB 
>  below the paper carriage. However, the printer does not accept 
this. 
>  When I move a page till the paper feed (PF) roller, the presence of 
>  the page is detected but not accepted for printing. It is just 
moved 
>  out of the printer without being printed. Can you give some hints 
on 
>  how to create a flat path and a reference position that is accepted 
by 
>  the printer.
>  
>  With kind regards,
>  
>  Gerard Janssen
>  
>  PS. Sorry when this is more an interuption of the thread. This is 
my 
>  first post on this forum
>  
>  --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Volkan Sahin <vsahin@> wrote:
>  >
>  > Hi Stefan,
>  > I am using Epson CX4200 and I can say that  I didn't see any 
>  puddling. If it is possible send me some photos of puddling and let 
me 
>  compare. If ink amount seems to be too much you can try to adjust 
>  printer settings.
>  > I am always using 3 colors and each color has 90 nozzles as far 
as I 
>  remember. I am in office now so I didn't remember all settings, 
this 
>  night I can check and send you the settings that I am using. 
>  > Volkan
>  > 
>  > Stefan Trethan <stefan_trethan@> wrote:Volkan, don't you have any 
>  puddling at all?
>  > Which printers did you say you used?
>  > 
>  > 
>  > 
>  > 
>  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>  >
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>      
> 
>   Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, 
and Photos:
>  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
>  
>  If Files or Photos are running short of space, post them here:
>  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs_Archives/ 
> 
>               
> 
>         SPONSORED LINKS   
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>     To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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>     
>     Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of 
Service. 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>  
>     
> ---------------------------------
>  
>  
>      
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: direct inkjet printing

2006-05-12 by Volkan Sahin

Hi  Gerard,  It is difficult to say. The problem with CX4200,38xx, 4800 is their scanner. I need a free access to printing area but these printers have a scanner and if you remove the connections you will get so many blinking leds, errors. On the other hand, their mechanics are much more robust than C68 and C88, they have also 90 nozzles for each color and both x-y axis are feedback controlled which means there is no missing step problem as in step motor controlled ones. 
 Another problem with Epson printers they are using abrasive roller for paper feeding/positioning  and when you use PCB you slowly started to damage the abrasive coating of roller. This causes y-axis starting position errors because of fast feeding during start phase of printing. Now, I have faced with this problem and decided to disable y-axis motor during paper intake/feeding phase. I think this will solve the problem. Any ideas?
 So, what is the answer? I think, since I have so much experience and understand the operation of CX4200 and CX4800, I will choose CX4200 again.
     Cheers,
Volkan


 Which printer do you regard most suitable for this task? CX4200 or 
 would you choose another one based on the experience you have now.
 
 With kind regards,
 
 Gerard Janssen
 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Homebrew_PCBs] Re: direct inkjet printing

2006-05-12 by Robert Hedan

My solution for the C84 is to lift the upper part of the chassis by 1/4" so
that I could use a custom 'bed' for the PCB.  That way the traction roller
didn't come in contact with the PCB surface, only the bottom of this drawer.
I am removing the center of the top rollers leaving only the ones of each
end.  That idea also lets me implement that 'auto-centering' idea for
double-sided PCBs.

Now if I can only have enough sunny days to work on building it.

Robert
:)


> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com 
> [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com] De la part de Volkan Sahin
> Envoyé : mai 12 2006 16:34
> À : Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> Objet : Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: direct inkjet printing
> 
> 
...
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>  Another problem with Epson printers they are using abrasive 
> roller for paper feeding/positioning  and when you use PCB 
> you slowly started to damage the abrasive coating of roller. 
> This causes y-axis starting position errors because of fast 
> feeding during start phase of printing. Now, I have faced 
> with this problem and decided to disable y-axis motor during 
> paper intake/feeding phase. I think this will solve the 
> problem. Any ideas?  So, what is the answer? I think, since I 
> have so much experience and understand the operation of 
> CX4200 and CX4800, I will choose CX4200 again.
>      Cheers,
> Volkan

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: direct inkjet printing

2006-05-13 by Stefan Trethan

It is difficult to say indeed.
I think now that the new printheads with 1440 dpi in y direction are  
needed, or the variable drop size technology, or a high number of nozzles,  
or a combination of all or any of those.

The stylus color 600 i have here has 64 nozzles on black, 32 on each  
color. It has 1440x720 resolution.
Using only the black head, black and white setting, extra fine setting,  
and photo quality film setting, i see two problems, gaps between the bands  
of ink, and puddling where there are no gaps. This tells me there seems to  
be too much ink and not enough resolution in y direction. It is  
interesting that there are no gaps in x direction, even on fine setting,  
which seems to be 720x720. The gaps are irregular, but periodic, so maybe  
they have to do with slightly misplaced nozzles.


With the CX4200 and similar, maybe one can lift the scanner up or put it  
to the side after extending some of the cables?
Reasons for using the C6* or C8* are not only that they have no scanner  
but also they seem to come up much cheaper on ebay.

I think it is required for us to go forward to figure out first what makes  
the printing possible, and what prevents it, and thus determine which  
models of printers are thus useable and which are not. Any mechanical  
considerations of board feeding and stuff are really secondary to me. Of  
course it would be nice to have that easily solved, but if the printhead  
won't work it is no use. I think any printer can be converted if a  
sufficiently large amount of effort is put into it. If the head just can't  
do it no amount of effort will help.

Just to make sure it would be good to rule out any effect of the tarn-x.  
Maybe Volkan if you have time you could just scrub a PCB and skip the  
tarn-x?
Also, could you try only printing with one head, maybe yellow, single  
color? Or maybe black, it doesn't need to be etched. Only to see if you  
get a continous layer as before or if you see any banding/gaps.

Is anyone currently working on trying the C6* or C8* cheap printers with  
MISPRO ink?
My gut feeling is i should have gotten one of those instead. But not  
anticipating the problem with the gaps i went for the more reliable older  
option.

ST


On Fri, 12 May 2006 22:33:45 +0200, Volkan Sahin <vsahin@...>  
wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> Hi  Gerard,  It is difficult to say. The problem with CX4200,38xx, 4800  
> is their scanner. I need a free access to printing area but these  
> printers have a scanner and if you remove the connections you will get  
> so many blinking leds, errors. On the other hand, their mechanics are  
> much more robust than C68 and C88, they have also 90 nozzles for each  
> color and both x-y axis are feedback controlled which means there is no  
> missing step problem as in step motor controlled ones.
>  Another problem with Epson printers they are using abrasive roller for  
> paper feeding/positioning  and when you use PCB you slowly started to  
> damage the abrasive coating of roller. This causes y-axis starting  
> position errors because of fast feeding during start phase of printing.  
> Now, I have faced with this problem and decided to disable y-axis motor  
> during paper intake/feeding phase. I think this will solve the problem.  
> Any ideas?
>  So, what is the answer? I think, since I have so much experience and  
> understand the operation of CX4200 and CX4800, I will choose CX4200  
> again.
>      Cheers,
> Volkan

Re: direct inkjet printing

2006-05-13 by fenrir_co

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Trethan" 
> <stefan_trethan@> wrote:

Everyone keeps talking about modifying the C/CX printers. Has anyone 
looked into modifying the R/RX-series printers? Because the printers 
are designed to print directly onto CDs and have a straight-through 
feed slot, they might be more amenable into modifying for complete 
straight-through feeds than the C line. They take 6 carts instead of 4 
so they might be a little more expensive to start up at first (blanks 
+ refill ink), but the design is already set up for straight-through 
printing.

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: direct inkjet printing

2006-05-13 by Herbert E. Plett

Re: direct inkjet printing

have you guys noticed that there are four different threads using the same
SUBJECT???

if you are so clever to modify a printer, isn't it so much easier to put an
appropriate subject to your post?

thanks

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com

Circuit Paper

2006-05-13 by William Carr

Just for a laugh:

I just read "Tinker",   by Wen Spencer.


It's set in the future, and there's a repeated mention of "circuit  
paper".

Anyone in the future who wants to run off a PCB prints with metallic- 
bearing inks on peel-n-stick 'paper',  then sticks it on a substrate  
and surface-mounts components.

One example was applying the circuit paper to human skin....  I  
thought maybe some people on this list would find the idea cute.

Obviously it wouldn't be actually wood cellulose-based paper.   But  
printing on mylar might work if you could attach components with  
conductive glue rather than solder.

How about ferric oxide or silver paste (like heat-sink paste)  
formulated into standard hot glue sticks?

Later in the novel, they also had markers with metallic inks in a  
buckeyball matrix.

I had an idea years ago in my antenna-building phase, of drawing  
antennas on glass with conductive ink pens.

Of course mechanically mounting lead wires to the glass would be tricky.

RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] Circuit Paper

2006-05-13 by Tony Smith

> I had an idea years ago in my antenna-building phase, of drawing  
> antennas on glass with conductive ink pens.
> 
> Of course mechanically mounting lead wires to the glass would be
tricky.


Drill holes in the glass, bolt a connector to it.  Or insert a piece of
copper tube as a rivet, same as DIY vias in normal boards.

You could just go and get the adhesive copper foil stained glass people
use.

Hmm, glue SMD LEDs to the glass, use the pen to make tracks...  Hmm
again...

Tony

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Circuit Paper

2006-05-13 by JanRwl@AOL.COM

In a message dated 5/13/2006 12:17:42 A.M. Central Daylight Time,  
ajsmith@... writes:

I had an  idea years ago in my antenna-building phase, of drawing  
>  antennas on glass with conductive ink pens.



That's how auto-radio antennas are DONE, these  days!
 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: direct inkjet printing

2006-05-13 by gjm45janssen

Hello Volkan,

Since the y-axis control has to be changed anyway, I thought about the 
transport mechanism and the problem of the abbrasive paper feed roller 
which will wear out and cause an inaccurate y-position. A solution 
might be a table-like structure of papersize width and length, or a 
bit larger. The y-axis table position is controled by the paper feed 
roller (I don't know how yet) and it should start at a reference 
position (begin of paper) after a manual reset and stop at the end 
after printing a single page.
Like Stephan said, a basic solution may be already present in the R/RX 
series printers.

With kind regards,

Gerard

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Volkan Sahin <vsahin@...> wrote:
>
> Hi  Gerard,  It is difficult to say. The problem with CX4200,38xx, 
4800 is their scanner. I need a free access to printing area but these 
printers have a scanner and if you remove the connections you will get 
so many blinking leds, errors. On the other hand, their mechanics are 
much more robust than C68 and C88, they have also 90 nozzles for each 
color and both x-y axis are feedback controlled which means there is 
no missing step problem as in step motor controlled ones. 
>  Another problem with Epson printers they are using abrasive roller 
for paper feeding/positioning  and when you use PCB you slowly started 
to damage the abrasive coating of roller. This causes y-axis starting 
position errors because of fast feeding during start phase of 
printing. Now, I have faced with this problem and decided to disable 
y-axis motor during paper intake/feeding phase. I think this will 
solve the problem. Any ideas?
>  So, what is the answer? I think, since I have so much experience 
and understand the operation of CX4200 and CX4800, I will choose 
CX4200 again.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>      Cheers,
> Volkan
> 
> 
>  Which printer do you regard most suitable for this task? CX4200 or 
>  would you choose another one based on the experience you have now.
>  
>  With kind regards,
>  
>  Gerard Janssen
>  
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: direct inkjet printing

2006-05-13 by William Carr

On May 12, 2006, at 9:02 AM, roger lucas wrote:

> I suggested this a while back, and am still convinced
> that Tarn-X is somehow involved in this, maybe just to
> the extent that rubbing the board creates an
> electrostatic charge which causes the ink to hold
> rather than puddle.

Well, you could test that by rubbing a board with an anti-static  
dryer sheet before printing.   I used to keep some around to wipe  
down my vinyl rolls before trying to print on them.

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: direct inkjet printing

2006-05-13 by Stefan Trethan

Volkan tried leaving out the tarn-x and saw no difference.
He also tried printing with the yellow head only, and got basically the  
same results as before, see images, the two starting with test_yellow:

<www.trethan.at.tf/pub/volkan>

To me this is good news, because it shows one can print correctly with one  
head filled with a single color. This yellow head has 90nozzles. Also it  
shows the tarn-x is not any magical ingredient making it work. I still  
believe a newer printer with more nozzles and or higher resolution is the  
key. I look forward to hearing if anyone is going to try the ones without  
scanner with mispro ink.

Volkan, thank you for making the tests, and so quickly too!

ST

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: direct inkjet printing

2006-05-13 by Lez

I am going to buy some pigment ink in the uk this week, even if it
means driving from store to store til I find some, then its going into
a epson photo 900, with a board stuck on the cd tray.

Where the durabrite carts a success or a fail, before I donate more
money to the pc-world/epson fund commitee?


> key. I look forward to hearing if anyone is going to try the ones without
> scanner with mispro ink.

Re: direct inkjet printing

2006-05-13 by mycroft2152

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "fenrir_co" <fenrir@...> wrote:
>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Trethan" 
> > <stefan_trethan@> wrote:
> 
> Everyone keeps talking about modifying the C/CX printers. Has anyone 
> looked into modifying the R/RX-series printers? Because the printers 
> are designed to print directly onto CDs and have a straight-through 
> feed slot, they might be more amenable into modifying for complete 
> straight-through feeds than the C line. They take 6 carts instead of 
4 
> so they might be a little more expensive to start up at first 
(blanks 
> + refill ink), but the design is already set up for straight-through 
> printing.
>

There are at least 12 posts going back to April 10th, mentioning the 
use of an EPSON R220 type CD printer. Do a search in the messages. In 
the US the EPSON R220 is considered a low end printer and sells retail 
for $99. Since replapcement carts are $60, the printer effectively 
costs $$40

It does seem that everyone has jumped on the bandwagon to modify their 
current printer to print flat. This is may just be a chicken/egg 
problem :)  For those of you don't understand americanisms, the 
question reads;"Which came first the chicken or the egg?"

Yet, after a month, no one has duplicated Voltan's work. There are 
still many questions to be answered about application rates, 
drying/curing times, durability to etchannts etc.

Stefan seems closest. He is at least applying the MIS ink to 
copperclad. Since he is having a banding problem, related to the 
printhead, it mght be appropriate for him to "shift gears"and develop 
the drying / curing process even with the striped boards. We would be 
that much further ahead, when the printhead problem is solved

TANSTAAFL!

Myc

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: direct inkjet printing

2006-05-13 by Stefan Trethan

On Sat, 13 May 2006 12:41:51 +0200, mycroft2152 <mycroft2152@...>  
wrote:

> Stefan seems closest. He is at least applying the MIS ink to
> copperclad. Since he is having a banding problem, related to the
> printhead, it mght be appropriate for him to "shift gears"and develop
> the drying / curing process even with the striped boards. We would be
> that much further ahead, when the printhead problem is solved
> TANSTAAFL!
> Myc


Actually, the curing is easy.
I just put it on the stove plate and wait till i see the ink discoloring  
slightly.
Then it seems to hold up well in CuCl.
I didn't dry them at all in air.

Layer thickness is apparently an important factor, that's why i have  
suspended any work on curing until i have a printer that can "do it".

The first sample i tried before i had the printer i painted with a  
toothpick, but even after a few days air drying it was washed clean away  
in the etchant within seconds.
If you heat the PCB it will resist. I think somehow the water is all  
evaporated with the stove, if you air-dry it a small amount remains and  
makes it water soluble.


I think later i will use a oven with temperature control, which i also  
will use for SMD soldering (but have yet to build it). This will allow  
baking the second side without damage to the first one against a hotplate.

ST

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: direct inkjet printing

2006-05-13 by Stefan Trethan

On Sat, 13 May 2006 12:41:02 +0200, Lez <lez.briddon@...> wrote:

> I am going to buy some pigment ink in the uk this week, even if it
> means driving from store to store til I find some, then its going into
> a epson photo 900, with a board stuck on the cd tray.
> Where the durabrite carts a success or a fail, before I donate more
> money to the pc-world/epson fund commitee?


I think trying just any pigment ink is asking for failure, when we have  
trouble enough reproducing results with the known good mispro ink. But  
hey, i'm grateful for any bit of information you may gleam.

ST

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: direct inkjet printing

2006-05-13 by Lez

>
> I think trying just any pigment ink is asking for failure, when we have
> trouble enough reproducing results with the known good mispro ink. But

Its a supply and demand issue, I buy from shops/stores or on _very_
rare occasions, UK mail order, so when we get a mispro uk
etc..........

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: direct inkjet printing

2006-05-13 by Stefan Trethan

huh?

ST
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Sat, 13 May 2006 14:38:09 +0200, Lez <lez.briddon@googlemail.com> wrote:

>> I think trying just any pigment ink is asking for failure, when we have
>> trouble enough reproducing results with the known good mispro ink. But

> Its a supply and demand issue, I buy from shops/stores or on _very_
> rare occasions, UK mail order, so when we get a mispro uk
> etc..........

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Circuit Paper

2006-05-14 by William Carr

On May 13, 2006, at 1:09 AM, Tony Smith wrote:

> Drill holes in the glass, bolt a connector to it.  Or insert a  
> piece of
> copper tube as a rivet, same as DIY vias in normal boards.
>
> You could just go and get the adhesive copper foil stained glass  
> people
> use.
>
> Hmm, glue SMD LEDs to the glass, use the pen to make tracks...  Hmm
> again...

My nephew trashed the Sharp calculator I gave him when he was in High  
school, so I took it apart.

Gosh !    It contained batteries, a display LCD, a sheet of plastic  
with circuit traces printed on it, and those traces went from the  
number pad to a microchip that was glued to the plastic.

Interface to the LCD was a strip of rubber impregnated with tiny  
wires so that current from the traces on the plastic sheet was  
conducted straight to the contacts on the LCD.

This was probably 18 years ago, and I was stunned.  No resistors.  No  
capacitors.  No replaceable parts at all, and the plastic sheet just  
clipped into position.

I remember thinking it looked like something Wesley Crusher* would  
have put together as a lark.


*Star Trek Next Generation Reference.

Re: direct inkjet printing

2006-05-14 by gjm45janssen

Hello Robert,

I have adapted my C70 in a similar way. The middle top rollers were 
removed and also the white plastic rear paper guide. In the front I 
removed the middle star wheels. By using a 3 mm plexi-glass plate at 
the backside on top of the power supply (with some holes in it for 
cooling) to fill up the gap, I get a flat path throught the printer. 
What kind of material do you use for the "custom bed"? I was thinking 
about 0.5 mm aluminum, but that may ruin the abrasive roller coating. 
The next challenge is to reprogram the printer such that it prints one 
page from a preset reference y-axes position of the moving bed. How do 
you control the y-movement?

With kind regards,

Gerard

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Robert Hedan <robert.hedan@...> 
wrote:
>
> My solution for the C84 is to lift the upper part of the chassis by 
1/4" so
> that I could use a custom 'bed' for the PCB.  That way the traction 
roller
> didn't come in contact with the PCB surface, only the bottom of this 
drawer.
> I am removing the center of the top rollers leaving only the ones of 
each
> end.  That idea also lets me implement that 'auto-centering' idea 
for
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> double-sided PCBs.
> 
> Now if I can only have enough sunny days to work on building it.
> 
> Robert
> :)
> 
> 
> > -----Message d'origine-----
> > De : Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com 
> > [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com] De la part de Volkan Sahin
> > Envoyé : mai 12 2006 16:34
> > À : Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> > Objet : Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: direct inkjet printing
> > 
> > 
> ...
> >  Another problem with Epson printers they are using abrasive 
> > roller for paper feeding/positioning  and when you use PCB 
> > you slowly started to damage the abrasive coating of roller. 
> > This causes y-axis starting position errors because of fast 
> > feeding during start phase of printing. Now, I have faced 
> > with this problem and decided to disable y-axis motor during 
> > paper intake/feeding phase. I think this will solve the 
> > problem. Any ideas?  So, what is the answer? I think, since I 
> > have so much experience and understand the operation of 
> > CX4200 and CX4800, I will choose CX4200 again.
> >      Cheers,
> > Volkan
>

[Homebrew_PCBs] Re: direct inkjet printing

2006-05-14 by Robert Hedan

Hi Gerard,

No idea, not there yet.  The PCB chariot might be made of hardwood.

I'm not changing the Y-movement, the bottom part of the printer still works
with the bottom traction roller.

Robert
:)
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com 
> [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com] De la part de gjm45janssen
> Envoyé : mai 14 2006 11:15
> À : Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> Objet : [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: direct inkjet printing
> 
> 
> Hello Robert,
> 
> ... 
> What kind of material do you use for the "custom bed"? I was thinking 
> about 0.5 mm aluminum, but that may ruin the abrasive roller coating. 
> .... How do 
> you control the y-movement?
> 
> With kind regards,
> 
> Gerard

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Circuit Paper

2006-05-14 by Christopher Hart

I've seen this same type of thing in keypads that I have taken apart. It looks 
the same as the ribbon cable that I found all over when I was scraping a fax 
machiene that had stopped functioning completely. It was an inkjet based fax, 
with the longest strips going to the print cartridges.

Christopher Hart
KC8UFV
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Sunday 14 May 2006 10:43, William Carr wrote:
>  On May 13, 2006, at 1:09 AM, Tony Smith wrote:
>  > Drill holes in the glass, bolt a connector to it.  Or insert a 
>  > piece of
>  > copper tube as a rivet, same as DIY vias in normal boards.
>  >
>  > You could just go and get the adhesive copper foil stained glass 
>  > people
>  > use.
>  >
>  > Hmm, glue SMD LEDs to the glass, use the pen to make tracks...  Hmm
>  > again...
>
>  My nephew trashed the Sharp calculator I gave him when he was in High 
>  school, so I took it apart.
>
>  Gosh !    It contained batteries, a display LCD, a sheet of plastic 
>  with circuit traces printed on it, and those traces went from the 
>  number pad to a microchip that was glued to the plastic.
>
>  Interface to the LCD was a strip of rubber impregnated with tiny 
>  wires so that current from the traces on the plastic sheet was 
>  conducted straight to the contacts on the LCD.
>
>  This was probably 18 years ago, and I was stunned.  No resistors.  No 
>  capacitors.  No replaceable parts at all, and the plastic sheet just 
>  clipped into position.
>
>  I remember thinking it looked like something Wesley Crusher* would 
>  have put together as a lark.
>
>
>  *Star Trek Next Generation Reference.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: Circuit Paper

2006-05-15 by Len Warner

Fri May 12, 2006 9:40pm(PDT), William Carr wrote:
>Of course mechanically mounting lead wires to the glass would be tricky

Indium? - metal, wets glass, low melting point, alloys, moderate price, 
mail order.


Regards, LenW

Re: direct inkjet printing

2006-05-15 by Steve

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Trethan"
<stefan_trethan@...> wrote:
>
> I did some more tests today.
> 
> The gaps become much smaller if i select black/white in the printer
driver  
> and photo quality, but i still don't get a closed area.
> 
> Found that heating the PCB eliminates the puddling.

I can't keep my PCB hot long enough. It cools so quickly, it's cooled
off before more than a little bit is printed. Card-stock thin double
sided PCD.

> Guess i should try what volkan suggests and put some ink in the
color cart  
> and try to use all heads.

You don't have ink in the color heads? No wonder! The printer driver
is mixing inks, even in black, depending on the paper type selected
and what you are printing from.

Steve Greenfield

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: direct inkjet printing

2006-05-15 by Stefan Trethan

On Mon, 15 May 2006 16:37:43 +0200, Steve <alienrelics@...> wrote:

>
> You don't have ink in the color heads? No wonder! The printer driver
> is mixing inks, even in black, depending on the paper type selected
> and what you are printing from.
> Steve Greenfield


I set to black only in the driver.
I don't believe it is mixing, there is some color in the other heads.
But maybe..

ST

Re: direct inkjet printing

2006-05-15 by RMustakos

Gerard
  I suspect the easiest way to keep from bothering the abrasive roller 
is to glue a piece of paper to the bottom of the aluminum tray.
Richard
Show quoted textHide quoted text
><snip>What kind of material do you use for the "custom bed"? I was thinking 
>about 0.5 mm aluminum, but that may ruin the abrasive roller coating. 
><snip>
>Gerard
>

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: direct inkjet printing

2006-05-15 by Stefan Trethan

On Mon, 15 May 2006 20:50:28 +0200, RMustakos <rmustakos@...>  
wrote:

> Gerard
>   I suspect the easiest way to keep from bothering the abrasive roller
> is to glue a piece of paper to the bottom of the aluminum tray.
> Richard


Or squeegee on some silicone.

Or even scrape off the abrasive stuff intentionally and slip on a thin  
walled silicone hose.

Heck even if i have to make a new roller with rubber wheels i would do it,  
if the other stuff works out ;-)


I'll get back to looking for a newer printer tomorrow. I don't see how the  
banding/gaps can be resolved.


ST

Re: direct inkjet printing

2006-05-15 by gjm45janssen

Dear Richard, Stefan,

Indeed, I do not see the main problem in the tray tranport at the 
moment. It is more the timing of the transport which is bothering me. 
What I mean is the following. When a print command is given with the 
unmodified printer,  (1) a new page is taken from the paper tray; (2) 
this page operates a lever switch and the paper roler starts to turn 
to transport the paper; (3) the paper is printed. If the timing 
between events is not correct, it is not going to work. For example if 
I put a page in the modified printer (flat path and paper holder etc. 
removed) past the lever switch, the paper roller tranports the paper 
out of the printer. There seems to be a critical timing between (1) 
and (2). So the synchronization between the command to print a page 
and the paper roller has to be modified. I don't know how to do that 
yet.

With kind regards,

Gerard

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, 
"Stefan Trethan" <stefan_trethan@...> wrote:
>
> On Mon, 15 May 2006 20:50:28 +0200, RMustakos <rmustakos@...>  
> wrote:
> 
> > Gerard
> >   I suspect the easiest way to keep from bothering the abrasive 
roller
> > is to glue a piece of paper to the bottom of the aluminum tray.
> > Richard
> 
> 
> Or squeegee on some silicone.
> 
> Or even scrape off the abrasive stuff intentionally and slip on a 
thin  
> walled silicone hose.
> 
> Heck even if i have to make a new roller with rubber wheels i would 
do it,  
> if the other stuff works out ;-)
> 
> 
> I'll get back to looking for a newer printer tomorrow. I don't see 
how the  
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> banding/gaps can be resolved.
> 
> 
> ST
>

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: direct inkjet printing

2006-05-15 by Stefan Trethan

On Mon, 15 May 2006 22:40:02 +0200, gjm45janssen  
<g.janssen@....nl> wrote:

> Dear Richard, Stefan,
> Indeed, I do not see the main problem in the tray tranport at the
> moment. It is more the timing of the transport which is bothering me.
> What I mean is the following. When a print command is given with the
> unmodified printer,  (1) a new page is taken from the paper tray; (2)
> this page operates a lever switch and the paper roler starts to turn
> to transport the paper; (3) the paper is printed. If the timing
> between events is not correct, it is not going to work. For example if
> I put a page in the modified printer (flat path and paper holder etc.
> removed) past the lever switch, the paper roller tranports the paper
> out of the printer. There seems to be a critical timing between (1)
> and (2). So the synchronization between the command to print a page
> and the paper roller has to be modified. I don't know how to do that
> yet.
> With kind regards,
> Gerard


You time it before you take the printer apart, and then you use a simple  
analog timer circuit to replicate it, maybe allow for some adjustment to  
tweak it.

ST

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: direct inkjet printing

2006-05-16 by Christopher Hart

Another alternative is to take a physical measurement of the paper path, and 
re-create the distance of the travel along the straight path. 
Christopher Hart
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Monday 15 May 2006 17:09, Stefan Trethan wrote:
> On Mon, 15 May 2006 22:40:02 +0200, gjm45janssen
>
> <g.janssen@...> wrote:
> > Dear Richard, Stefan,
> > Indeed, I do not see the main problem in the tray tranport at the
> > moment. It is more the timing of the transport which is bothering me.
> > What I mean is the following. When a print command is given with the
> > unmodified printer,  (1) a new page is taken from the paper tray; (2)
> > this page operates a lever switch and the paper roler starts to turn
> > to transport the paper; (3) the paper is printed. If the timing
> > between events is not correct, it is not going to work. For example if
> > I put a page in the modified printer (flat path and paper holder etc.
> > removed) past the lever switch, the paper roller tranports the paper
> > out of the printer. There seems to be a critical timing between (1)
> > and (2). So the synchronization between the command to print a page
> > and the paper roller has to be modified. I don't know how to do that
> > yet.
> > With kind regards,
> > Gerard
>
> You time it before you take the printer apart, and then you use a simple
> analog timer circuit to replicate it, maybe allow for some adjustment to
> tweak it.
>
> ST
>
>
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
>
> If Files or Photos are running short of space, post them here:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs_Archives/
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
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>
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>
> __________________________________________________________
> Message transport security by GatewayDefender.com
> 5:09:42 PM ET - 5/15/2006

Re: Circuit Paper

2006-05-17 by kilocycles

Not that far off the mark, since they're already doing rapid protyping
by building up layers from an ink jet-like process.
Ted

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, William Carr <Jkirk3279@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> Just for a laugh:
> 
> I just read "Tinker",   by Wen Spencer.
> 
> 
> It's set in the future, and there's a repeated mention of "circuit  
> paper".
> 
> Anyone in the future who wants to run off a PCB prints with metallic- 
> bearing inks on peel-n-stick 'paper',  then sticks it on a substrate  
> and surface-mounts components.
> 
> One example was applying the circuit paper to human skin....  I  
> thought maybe some people on this list would find the idea cute.
> 
> Obviously it wouldn't be actually wood cellulose-based paper.   But  
> printing on mylar might work if you could attach components with  
> conductive glue rather than solder.
> 
> How about ferric oxide or silver paste (like heat-sink paste)  
> formulated into standard hot glue sticks?
> 
> Later in the novel, they also had markers with metallic inks in a  
> buckeyball matrix.
> 
> I had an idea years ago in my antenna-building phase, of drawing  
> antennas on glass with conductive ink pens.
> 
> Of course mechanically mounting lead wires to the glass would be tricky.
>

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: direct inkjet printing

2006-05-26 by lists

In article <20060512130229.74453.qmail@...>,
   roger lucas <ralucas4277@...> wrote:
> I don't think Tarn-X is available in the UK anyway.

Have you tried Cillit Bang?

Advert shows some guy dropping in a tarnished copper coin and when he
pulls it out it's all shiny like new - and, yes - it does seem to work

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: direct inkjet printing

2006-05-27 by Lez

works on coins, wife had some, never thought to see what happens on pcb's!
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On 26/05/06, lists <stuart.winsor.lists@...> wrote:
> In article <20060512130229.74453.qmail@...>,
>    roger lucas <ralucas4277@...> wrote:
> > I don't think Tarn-X is available in the UK anyway.
>
> Have you tried Cillit Bang?
>
> Advert shows some guy dropping in a tarnished copper coin and when he
> pulls it out it's all shiny like new - and, yes - it does seem to work