Homebrew PCBs

I have had it out since Christmas, but finally got around to really 
getting things going again in the last two weeks.  Reworked the basic 
front end program to read Gerber, so now it'll route out the cutouts etc 
from board outlines from Eagle.  The 2.4 of the newer Gerber format is 
very easy, nice having everything in the same place..


  The simple, meant to be temporary mount I had worked fine for 
drilling, but couldn't take a side load so was flexing around.  Went 
back over to Lowes the other day looking for other boxes etc to make a 
better mount, and now they carry a nearly 3" deep single wide metal box, 
with no punch outs on the flat sides.  Not only will these work for 
mounting the Dremel, but they are also large enough to handle a NEMA 23 
motor.  While I did plastic boxes since it was easy to locate and drill 
the holes, the intent was to work out locations then make them with 
metal, the plastic just worked out ok enough to not worry with it much.  
But now there are very suitable metal ones available, time to change it 
over.  These and a simple box setup to remount the last coupler and 
everything will be pretty solid.  Hmm do have to redo the Z motor, 
mine's a custom with lead screw, not a standard motor.  Still not hard 
or much to do..

  Melamine base plate, wood for the cut board of course, and one wood 
plank for the mounting plate for the tool holder.  Even the plank could 
be done away with and make the mechanics all metal, but little point 
since it makes mounting the tool holder easier than straight to the 
rails and doesn't affect accuracy much if at all, since it's only the 
3/8" thickness that's in the X,Y dimension.

  All metal mechanics machine that only takes straight cuts and drill 
holes to make, and still ends up being sub-$150 with motors etc.  Likely 
sub-$100 if done right since the mechanics themselves end up $75 or so.  
Getting it finished up over the next couple of days since I want it to 
cut out my inner board cuts now. 

  Much of the work is in the boxes, the rest is straight cuts and drill 
holes.  Plus the box price drops in half if you buy a case of 20 boxes, 
like $25 or $30.  Likely I could CNC a few sets up and mail them out 
with little if any added cost over just buying the 6 individual boxes, 
even after shipping not likely $15 or $20.  Wouldn't make sense shipping 
the other parts though, they have flat cost and not that much work 
required on them, better to just buy the rest at a local Lowes.

  Could probably be brought up to doing medium machine work without too 
much effort since it's metal.  Most of my own uses are small or light 
duty so not sure I'll take it to that point myself.  Only thing big I 
want for now is a 4'x8' sheet plywood cutter, and that's a different 
animal..

Alan

I expect you plan on showing pictures sometime?

ST

On Tue, 09 May 2006 00:39:53 +0200, Alan King <alan@...> wrote:

>  I have had it out since Christmas, but finally got around to really
>
> getting things going again in the last two weeks.  Reworked the basic
>
> front end program to read Gerber, so now it'll route out the cutouts etc
>
> from board outlines from Eagle.  The 2.4 of the newer Gerber format is
>
> very easy, nice having everything in the same place..
>
>
>
>   The simple, meant to be temporary mount I had worked fine for
>
> drilling, but couldn't take a side load so was flexing around.  Went
>
> back over to Lowes the other day looking for other boxes etc to make a
>
> better mount, and now they carry a nearly 3" deep single wide metal box,
>
> with no punch outs on the flat sides.  Not only will these work for
>
> mounting the Dremel, but they are also large enough to handle a NEMA 23
>
> motor.  While I did plastic boxes since it was easy to locate and drill
>
> the holes, the intent was to work out locations then make them with
>
> metal, the plastic just worked out ok enough to not worry with it much.
>
> But now there are very suitable metal ones available, time to change it
>
> over.  These and a simple box setup to remount the last coupler and
>
> everything will be pretty solid.  Hmm do have to redo the Z motor,
>
> mine's a custom with lead screw, not a standard motor.  Still not hard
>
> or much to do..
>
>
>   Melamine base plate, wood for the cut board of course, and one wood
>
> plank for the mounting plate for the tool holder.  Even the plank could
>
> be done away with and make the mechanics all metal, but little point
>
> since it makes mounting the tool holder easier than straight to the
>
> rails and doesn't affect accuracy much if at all, since it's only the
>
> 3/8" thickness that's in the X,Y dimension.
>
>
>   All metal mechanics machine that only takes straight cuts and drill
>
> holes to make, and still ends up being sub-$150 with motors etc.  Likely
>
> sub-$100 if done right since the mechanics themselves end up $75 or so.
>
> Getting it finished up over the next couple of days since I want it to
>
> cut out my inner board cuts now.
>
>
>   Much of the work is in the boxes, the rest is straight cuts and drill
>
> holes.  Plus the box price drops in half if you buy a case of 20 boxes,
>
> like $25 or $30.  Likely I could CNC a few sets up and mail them out
>
> with little if any added cost over just buying the 6 individual boxes,
>
> even after shipping not likely $15 or $20.  Wouldn't make sense shipping
>
> the other parts though, they have flat cost and not that much work
>
> required on them, better to just buy the rest at a local Lowes.
>
>
>   Could probably be brought up to doing medium machine work without too
>
> much effort since it's metal.  Most of my own uses are small or light
>
> duty so not sure I'll take it to that point myself.  Only thing big I
>
> want for now is a 4'x8' sheet plywood cutter, and that's a different
>
> animal..
>
>
> Alan
>

> Alan wrote:
> <Snip>
> All metal mechanics machine that only
> takes straight cuts and drill holes to
> make, and still ends up being sub-$150
> with motors etc.  Likely sub-$100 if
> done right since the mechanics
> themselves end up $75 or so.  

Alan - sounds great.  There is no up
on this thread and I am on too slow a
connection here (about 10k baud) for
much archive searching.

Are you planing on releasing an RTFM
build plan so we can all make one ?

If Roger does his RTFM build on the
EDM, you do the CNC millling and I
ever finish the photoplotter we can
all have lots of things to build and
keep ourselves busy.

(the next one I would love is Davids
roll-tinning machine)

Of course..  Since it's being brought up to speed for making what I'm 
selling, it is already going and just needs a new mount, then I'll get 
some video up..

http://www.superference.com/images/cnc/

  Here's some pics though for current state.  Flat side plate of one box 
at the bottom, top is cut out to take the Dremel case.  Side plates in 
the middle were removed, cut the front welds and broke the back one, 
should be able to use a 5lb sledge and chisel to break all 3 for speed 
after I make something to hold the boxes.  On top of the top plate will 
go a plastic plate, cut to fit the Dremel tightly at that level, and 
with oversize holes and screwed to the top box to shift the plate for 
alignment.  Bottom plate will get a hole for the nose, stick it through 
and tighten the collar back up on the other side, hole takes the load.  
Plastic plate for the top will be fine, since it'll have so much 
leverage against the tip, also these are stacked for picture, they'll 
actually be a little further apart for max leverage.  Should end up 
being better than any $3 Dremel mount I've ever seen, most are terrible 
or expensive.  Screwed to the board after taking off the blue box in the 
third picture..
  Remounting the bottom rails and Y motor mount onto 2"x2" wood to get 
some more height, plenty of travel in Z and the clearance will make 
things easier.  For X axis, a box over and side clamp to the coupler 
nut, similar to how Y is clamped to the rail, and then things should be 
pretty decent.  Bracket has a little too much flex, not that bad but a 
box will be better and the side clamps are much simpler to build.

Alan




Stefan Trethan wrote:

>I expect you plan on showing pictures sometime?
>
>ST
>
>  
>

Andrew wrote:

>>Alan wrote:
>><Snip>
>>All metal mechanics machine that only
>>takes straight cuts and drill holes to
>>make, and still ends up being sub-$150
>>with motors etc.  Likely sub-$100 if
>>done right since the mechanics
>>themselves end up $75 or so.  
>>    
>>
>
>Alan - sounds great.  There is no up
>on this thread and I am on too slow a
>connection here (about 10k baud) for
>much archive searching.
>
>Are you planing on releasing an RTFM
>build plan so we can all make one ?
>
>  
>

   Yes, but rignt now have 2 boards to finish laying out that are 
already paid for and need to be in, and Ebay sales are 2 ahead of what 
I've built for lights so have to be done in the next day or two.  So 
likely a week maybe two before I even get to working on it.  Self 
aligned as it was built, it'll pretty much have to come apart and be 
rebuilt to show how to align it.  Not that bad but likely a 2-3 
afternoon job to take decent pictures and write it up.  Plus Z axis 
motor and motor boxes need to be changed first too.

Alan

> Alan wrote:
> <snip>
> http://www.superference.com/images/cnc/
> <snip>

Alan,

Did you ever try that Star SJ-144 for direct
resist printing ? (was shown in another
images directory)

I wonder how thermal transfer works on copper
and if the heat gets drawn away too fast.

I guess I can try when I get home (out of
curiosity only)

Finaly I have a reason to pull my old primera
out of the cupboard and blow the dust off it.

ON that note - I now remember someone I saw
once was using a Primera Dye Sub printer in
thermal transfer mode to make photo tools
for "rubber" stamps.  The stamps used a UV
curing polymer.

I remeber that they only used the YELLOW
panel from the ribbon.  So - like people with
inkjets I guess someone worked out that the
one colour was more opaque to UV than black.
(always struck me as strange that they threw
all the other colours in the bin just to get
yellow)

On Tue, 09 May 2006 03:30:34 +0200, Alan King <alan@...> wrote:

>
>
> http://www.superference.com/images/cnc/


Good idea.
Are these boxes used for electrical installation like switches and stuff?
They make them round here for that :-).

Anyway, not too hard to find another kind of box or some other substitute.

ST

Andrew wrote:

>>Alan wrote:
>><snip>
>>http://www.superference.com/images/cnc/
>><snip>
>>    
>>
>
>Alan,
>
>Did you ever try that Star SJ-144 for direct
>resist printing ? (was shown in another
>images directory)
>
>I wonder how thermal transfer works on copper
>and if the heat gets drawn away too fast.
>
>  
>
  They were Mac, hardly worth the effort to get it working vs just get 
rid of and buy an Alps.  Alps had metal foil etc to print on, works fine 
enough.


  Possible to do this, but I'd screw with getting a laser to work first 
before one of these, they're a bit finiky to keep working even for just 
paper.  A working inkjet system will be easier to deal with than either, 
so unlikely worth looking at too much now other than to see the tech.

Alan

Stefan Trethan wrote:

>On Tue, 09 May 2006 03:30:34 +0200, Alan King <alan@...> wrote:
>
>  
>
>>http://www.superference.com/images/cnc/
>>    
>>
>
>
>Good idea.
>Are these boxes used for electrical installation like switches and stuff?
>They make them round here for that :-).
>
>Anyway, not too hard to find another kind of box or some other substitute.
>
>ST
>  
>
  Yes, but the costs will mount quickly if it's not the absolute 
cheapest thing..  I bought some of the deepest metal single boxes they 
had when I built this a few years ago, and they're about 3/4" less deep, 
too short for NEMA-23 or surrounding a Dremel.  Built over a year or two 
with many many trips to Lowes, so unlikely was an out of stock thing 
too.  Had several others of the same depth now, but the others had punch 
outs, much better to have without for making your own holes..  They also 
now have some wider square boxes, what the Z axis is mounted to, so will 
give it a wider base and make it a little more stable.


  I was looking at building these to sell, in the $250-300 range with 
motors and controllers, so everything had to be decent components but at 
bottom cost.  It's not that you can't find other parts etc, but 
generally price goes up several times on each part, because other items 
aren't so mass produced.  Not a big deal for an individual build, but 
for making more than a few it adds up fast..  I wouldn't even think of 
offering parts, except I know what the holes represent, since it's about 
half the work.  If not for that and the bulk cost making room for 
covering shipping etc, it'd be just as easy for everyone to get these at 
Lowes.  I may still not even offer it anyway, just something else to 
have to do, either way I'll give hole specs anyway.  But even with 
shipping to Euroland you'd be hard pressed to come out ahead on cost, 
not even considering the work after buying.  Not that terrible but is 
about half of building the mechanics just making those holes.

  Have most of the stuff on hand for a second unit, may just build new 
for the instructions.  Needs a few slight changes, and especially a 
second drive for the Y.  Carriage is wide enough that you can deflect 
the other side, a parallel drive will lock it in.  Didn't matter for 
drilling so I haven't put it on yet..

Alan

> >Andrewm Wrote:
> >Did you ever try that Star SJ-144 for
> >direct resist printing ?

> Alan worte:
> They were Mac, hardly worth the effort
> to get it working vs just get rid of
> and buy an Alps.  Alps had metal foil
> etc to print on, works fine enough.

Never heard of the Alps thermal one so
I googled it and found an Alps MD1300
and an Alps MD5000 that looked like
they might be what you where talking
about.

Are these the ones ?  And if so - How
good does the foil printing come out
on the one you bought.

Also when googling I spotted the Citizen
PN60 - which I know I have one of sitting
in a box somewhere at home.  I might dig
it up as it will be easier to pull apart
than the big dye sub.

On Wed, 10 May 2006 00:11:30 +0200, Andrew <andrewm1973@...> wrote:

> Never heard of the Alps thermal one so
>
> I googled it and found an Alps MD1300
>
> and an Alps MD5000 that looked like
>
> they might be what you where talking
>
> about.
>
>
> Are these the ones ?  And if so - How
>
> good does the foil printing come out
>
> on the one you bought.
>
>
> Also when googling I spotted the Citizen
>
> PN60 - which I know I have one of sitting
>
> in a box somewhere at home.  I might dig
>
> it up as it will be easier to pull apart
>
> than the big dye sub.
>
>


The alps are very expensive.
I had seen some on ebay but the price went way over.

BTW: Is there any epson repair experience here? The bloody stylus color  
600 i finally got shows "fatal error" power and paper blinking. The  
service manual is not telling anything new, i can not spot any mechanical  
problems.


ST

Andrew wrote:

>>>Andrewm Wrote:
>>>Did you ever try that Star SJ-144 for
>>>direct resist printing ?
>>>      
>>>
>
>  
>
>>Alan worte:
>>They were Mac, hardly worth the effort
>>to get it working vs just get rid of
>>and buy an Alps.  Alps had metal foil
>>etc to print on, works fine enough.
>>    
>>
>
>Never heard of the Alps thermal one so
>I googled it and found an Alps MD1300
>and an Alps MD5000 that looked like
>they might be what you where talking
>about.
>
>Are these the ones ?  And if so - How
>good does the foil printing come out
>on the one you bought.
>
>  
>

  I was already familiar with them, never did the other side of the 
equation and bought one.  They're too valuable as decal printers anyway 
which is why the high price as ST noted, I'd want 3 or 4 before even 
taking 1 apart.  It'd work but there are other things out there to try 
first.

  Actually the old Okimate printers for Commodore etc would make more 
sense for testing.  Lower res etc but cheaper than dirt now when you 
find one..

>Also when googling I spotted the Citizen
>PN60 - which I know I have one of sitting
>in a box somewhere at home.  I might dig
>it up as it will be easier to pull apart
>than the big dye sub.
>
>
>  
>
  Several out there work like this, and would be doable.  But the 
inkjets are looking doable as well, materials are cheap which the 
ribbons aren't, and it's current tech..  Hard to want to persue it much 
vs that..

Alan King wrote:

>Andrew wrote:
>
>  
>
>>>>Andrewm Wrote:
>>>>Did you ever try that Star SJ-144 for
>>>>direct resist printing ?
>>>>     
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>> 
>>

  BTW though at one point in the past I did use a ribbon and soldering 
iron and put down a strip on a board, and used a phaser ink as a 
crayon..  Of course being wax they resisted no problem.  Will definitely 
work, is a question of effort and expense vs inkjet.  Never saw one of 
these printers that didn't have a terrible paper path as well..

Alan

> Alan wrote:
> Actually the old Okimate printers for
> Commodore etc would make more sense
> for testing.  Lower res etc but
> cheaper than dirt now when you find
> one..

Yeah - I had an Okimate model 10 themal
printer on an amiga WAY back.  Did colour
that was just considered amazing at the
time.

I have not seen one with a working print
head for many years though :D

My citizen PN60 (actualy an IBM/lexmark
rebadge) is almost the same tech. as the
old okimate.

The number of things that still use the
old thermal transfer tech. is pretty
high - so if I break the PN60 and all
3 primeras when hacking thenm - I can
still find 1001 fax  machines to pull
apart.

A screwdriver, a hammer and an oxy-torch.
Should not take to long to pull each of
them apart with that setup.

> <snip>
> Hard to want to persue it much 

Oh - I am just curious about its
doability.  I don't think that milling,
EDM, direct inkjet printing or screen
printing goats blood as a resist will
ever be more viable for quality or speed
for small runs Vs good old photo-resist.

(though I will build one of each 'cause I
love to build things)

> >>>>Andrewm Wrote:
> >>>>Did you ever try that Star SJ-144 for
> >>>>direct resist printing ?
> >>>>
> >>>
> >> 
> >
> 
> Alan wrote:
> Will definitely  work, is a question of
> effort and expense vs inkjet.  Never saw
> one of these printers that didn't have a
> terrible paper path as well..

The PN 60 from my memory of it can bottom
feed, top out over a space of 40mm.  I
don't think you could ask for a simpler/
straighter paper path to modify.

I will see if it works.  If it doesn't I
wont cry.  If it does, I still wont use it
more than once to see if it did work :D

<adds finding the old PN-60 printer from
the piles of old boxes stored away
somewhere>

I have an Epson C84 that had the same problem.  I won't say that I 
fixed it but I did get it working.  What I did was remove the case and 
check it at every sub assembly that is every time I took off a part I 
tried to get it to power up. Eventually with most of the plastic case 
removed it came on. I then replaced parts until it failed again. It 
seems to me that at that point I could slightly warp the case by hand 
to make it work. I then put a sliver of plastic to hold the warp and 
reassembeled.  It now has been working for six months. Not very 
scientific but effective.

Jerry Miller
 
> BTW: Is there any epson repair experience here? The bloody stylus 
color  
> 600 i finally got shows "fatal error" power and paper blinking. The  
> service manual is not telling anything new, i can not spot any 
mechanical  

> problems.
> 
> 
> ST
>

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Trethan"
<stefan_trethan@...> wrote:
>
> BTW: Is there any epson repair experience here? The bloody stylus
color  
> 600 i finally got shows "fatal error" power and paper blinking. The  
> service manual is not telling anything new, i can not spot any
mechanical  
> problems.

That sounds like Waste Ink Tank (aka pad) Full error.

Download SSC Service Utility and install. Set it to the Epson 600, and
then under Protection Counter, Reset Protection Counter.

http://www.ssclg.com/epsone.shtml

Steve Greenfield

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Andrew" <andrewm1973@...> wrote:

> Never heard of the Alps thermal one so
> I googled it and found an Alps MD1300
> and an Alps MD5000 that looked like
> they might be what you where talking
> about.
> 
> Are these the ones ?  And if so - How
> good does the foil printing come out
> on the one you bought.

Alan may contradict me, but over on the Alps list some have tried to
print directly onto copper and found that the tiny print head just
cannot get hot enough with all that copper soaking up heat.

Steve Greenfield

Steve wrote:

>
>Alan may contradict me, but over on the Alps list some have tried to
>print directly onto copper and found that the tiny print head just
>cannot get hot enough with all that copper soaking up heat.
>
>Steve Greenfield
>  
>

  Worked with a soldering iron ok, wouldn't risk an Alps, did ok 
printing to their printing foils but they were thin.  For sure the 
Okimate heads sucked, could barely get it onto paper, not likely worth 
even getting a $10 one to try out.

  Was all around the time I said screw it and started ordering boards 
from the proto houses anyway.  Thought for a minute somewhere to mount a 
low temp controlled iron on the CNC and draw the circuit, now thinking 
about it a 7445 etc flatbed plotter might do as well and be simpler.  
Have worked with a thermal plotter to cut vinyl signs and they do ok.  
Copper blank with a piece of the Fargo film on top and plot away might 
even work very simply..  Tossed an Apple fargo clone too recently, had 
the right kind of film but too bulky to keep and too little value to sell.

  Just got a C64 Epson with durabright inks off freecycle, so not 
missing it too much really.. ;)  Clogged head, but even if it can't be 
made to run it's $45 Epson store credit if not already registered, plus 
bottle the ink, and $12 in Staples return cartridge credits.  $3 of gas 
to go get it, they're great deals at the moment..

Alan

> Alan wrote:
> Tossed an Apple fargo clone too recently, had 
> the right kind of film but too bulky to keep
> and too little value to sell.


Take that back.  Fargos have plenty of value.

Especially if you have a trebuche and need
some ammunition for it.

Not all of us own trebuches big enough to
hurl datsun 120Ys <insert regional car that
is the butt of jokes here.  Trabbant, Lada,
Reliant Robin, goggomobile all work>

Andrew wrote:

>>Alan wrote:
>>Tossed an Apple fargo clone too recently, had 
>>the right kind of film but too bulky to keep
>>and too little value to sell.
>>    
>>
>
>
>Take that back.  Fargos have plenty of value.
>
>Especially if you have a trebuche and need
>some ammunition for it.
>
>  
>


  That it could do..  Hard for me to think of it as big and heavy 
though, I only tend to remember the 250 pound wide carriage 1200 DPI 
laser in the attic that has to come back down some day..  So bulky it's 
hard to figure out the right way to pick it up so it doesn't pull you 
off balance, basically a giant printer with it's own built in cart that 
doesn't have the cart.  Got it up there somehow though, anything I can 
pick up now without a serious fight with gravity seems small after 
having that experience.  Think I paid $5 just to pay something for it, 
wish I'd paid $10 for it not..  Drum probably still has some value 
though if it's not destroyed from the attic, had a $900 retail price and 
was why I picked it up.  Still not much call for used, so wouldn't get 
much for it..

Alan

On 10/05/06, Andrew <andrewm1973@...> wrote:

> Yeah - I had an Okimate model 10 themal
> printer on an amiga WAY back.  Did colour
> that was just considered amazing at the
> time.

Thats the one I had, I could even print onto plastic bags with it, it
was a great machine, I had a BW version before that I think it was a
brother HL5, apart from the low dpi they would be ideal pcb printers
with those wax ribbons.

The SSC utility won't communicate with it in this state, i already tried.
It says "printer off or some other problem".

I already did the reset maintainance counter thing from the service  
manual, which resets the waste ink counter, via front panel special  
procedure.

Probably it doesn't even listen to the LPT if it can't go in a ready state.

But i don't understand why it is not working - it moves the head about  
just fine on power up and makes all the right sounds.
I don't see a mechanical problem and the three photointerruptor switches  
seem to be operated correctly. I don't understand what else might make the  
printer think it is unable to work?

ST

On Wed, 10 May 2006 04:34:08 +0200, Steve <alienrelics@...> wrote:

>  BTW: Is there any epson repair experience here? The bloody stylus
>
> color
>
>> 600 i finally got shows "fatal error" power and paper blinking. The
>
>> service manual is not telling anything new, i can not spot any
>
> mechanical
>
>> problems.
>
>
> That sounds like Waste Ink Tank (aka pad) Full error.
>
>
> Download SSC Service Utility and install. Set it to the Epson 600, and
>
> then under Protection Counter, Reset Protection Counter.
>
>
> http://www.ssclg.com/epsone.shtml
>
>
> Steve Greenfield

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Lez <lez.briddon@...> wrote:
>
> On 10/05/06, Andrew <andrewm1973@...> wrote:
> 
> > Yeah - I had an Okimate model 10 themal
> > printer on an amiga WAY back.  Did colour
> > that was just considered amazing at the
> > time.
> 
> Thats the one I had, I could even print onto
> plastic bags with it, it was a great machine,
> I had a BW version before that I think it was
> a brother HL5, apart from the low dpi they
> would be ideal pcb printers with those wax
> ribbons.
>

Still think copper may be hard to heat up enough.

I will try as soon as I find my PN-60 in a box
somewhere.

I never tried printing onto plastic bags - but
I disproved the the primera advertising that
you could "print onto anything you can feed
into them" when I tried sandpaper.  600 grit
was passable - but anything coarser didn't
work :D

>
> Still think copper may be hard to heat up enough.

Err, what makes you think it needs to be warm?

The ribbon sits on the copper, heat is applied from the other side of
the ribbon, the wax melts onto the cold copper and solidifies, then
the ribbon is pulled away, the wax should have stuck to the copper
with more force than the ribbon, so pulls off the ribbon backing.

fixed it!

A mount of a shaft to the left was slightly broken and had come loose.
This prevented a gear from engaging fully.

It prints now but with very few nozzles. The parking station is filthy, so  
i will clean that before doing any head cleaning cycles.


ST


On Wed, 10 May 2006 10:28:46 +0200, Stefan Trethan <stefan_trethan@...>  
wrote:

> The SSC utility won't communicate with it in this state, i already tried.
> It says "printer off or some other problem".
>
> I already did the reset maintainance counter thing from the service
> manual, which resets the waste ink counter, via front panel special
> procedure.
>
> Probably it doesn't even listen to the LPT if it can't go in a ready  
> state.
>
> But i don't understand why it is not working - it moves the head about
> just fine on power up and makes all the right sounds.
> I don't see a mechanical problem and the three photointerruptor switches
> seem to be operated correctly. I don't understand what else might make  
> the
> printer think it is unable to work?
>
> ST

Hot dog stefan, glad to hear you got past that power up error!  I 
would guess that the shaft that was giving you fits is the one on 
the paper feeder?  This is the one that is my bug-a-boo too.

Chris



--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Trethan" 
<stefan_trethan@...> wrote:
>
> fixed it!
> 
> A mount of a shaft to the left was slightly broken and had come 
loose.
> This prevented a gear from engaging fully.
> 
> It prints now but with very few nozzles. The parking station is 
filthy, so  
> i will clean that before doing any head cleaning cycles.
> 
> 
> ST
> 
> 
> On Wed, 10 May 2006 10:28:46 +0200, Stefan Trethan 
<stefan_trethan@...>  
> wrote:
> 
> > The SSC utility won't communicate with it in this state, i 
already tried.
> > It says "printer off or some other problem".
> >
> > I already did the reset maintainance counter thing from the 
service
> > manual, which resets the waste ink counter, via front panel 
special
> > procedure.
> >
> > Probably it doesn't even listen to the LPT if it can't go in a 
ready  
> > state.
> >
> > But i don't understand why it is not working - it moves the head 
about
> > just fine on power up and makes all the right sounds.
> > I don't see a mechanical problem and the three photointerruptor 
switches
> > seem to be operated correctly. I don't understand what else 
might make  

> > the
> > printer think it is unable to work?
> >
> > ST
>

On Wed, 10 May 2006 13:27:21 +0200, lcdpublishing  
<lcdpublishing@...> wrote:

> Hot dog stefan, glad to hear you got past that power up error!  I
>
> would guess that the shaft that was giving you fits is the one on
>
> the paper feeder?  This is the one that is my bug-a-boo too.
>
>
> Chris


No it was the main paper transport roller.
But the loose shaft would not have been such a problem in itself, the gear  
assembly on the end serves also as a clutch to the paper feed mechanism,  
activated by the head carriage. because the mount was loose this clutch  
would not engage, and the lack of movement in the paper feeder was what  
upset the printer.
I see that becoming a problem for the PCB printing, the main paper  
transport shaft is turning backwards and forwards at all sorts of time,  
which will surely be a problem if i want to attach a flat table to it. But  
that's a problem to be solved another day.

I have refilled the black with mispro yellow, using the dry sponge  
technique from inksupply.com . currently i don't get all nozzles, but the  
instructions said that is likely and i should wait overnight. The best  
nozzle pattern i got was only missing one or two, so i expect it will  
clear up eventually.

ST

> 
>   Just got a C64 Epson with durabright inks off freecycle, so not 
> missing it too much really.. ;)  Clogged head, but even if it can't 
> be 
> made to run it's $45 Epson store credit if not already registered, 
> plus 
> bottle the ink, and $12 in Staples return cartridge credits.  $3 of 
> gas 
> to go get it, they're great deals at the moment..
> 
> Alan
>

Unfortunately, Staples, Office Depot, etc, will not give credit on 
Epson or Canon tanks, only Brother, Lexmark, and HP (but they will, 
of course 'accept them for recycling'). Partially because they're 
difficult to refill, partially because that they don't resell for 
enough to make it worth it (Usually around $10-15, depending)

In message <44616AC0.4050206@...>
          Alan King <alan@...> wrote:

>   Just got a C64 Epson with durabright inks off freecycle, so not 
> missing it too much really.. ;)  Clogged head, but even if it can't be 
> made to run it's $45 Epson store credit if not already registered, plus 
> bottle the ink, and $12 in Staples return cartridge credits.  $3 of gas 
> to go get it, they're great deals at the moment..

I've got a C64 here. Lovely little printer, but the paper drive is a little
fussy.
If the head is clogged, make sure the feed line from the vacuum pump to the
service station hasn't come off. If it has, remove it from both ends and
rinse it out. Shove a pipe-cleaner down it if you can, just to get the dried
ink out of it. Put it back in and try a cleaning cycle.

If that doesn't work, warm water on a folded paper towel ("kitchen roll" if
you're in the UK) placed under the printhead for a few hours or so usually
does the trick. If not, there's a site that explains a few other methods to
unblock them - inkjetprinterhelp.us maybe?

The thing I *REALLY* don't like about my C64 is that the head's picked up
some dirt, and now when it starts printing I get a grey/black track down the
side of the page. Kinda annoying when you're using the uber-expensive
DuraBrite photo paper...

It is, however, the only inkjet I've found that uses smearproof inks. HP and
Canon ink seems to run when the paper gets wet, the Epson stuff doesn't.
YMMV. :)

-- 
Phil.                         | Kitsune: Acorn RiscPC SA202 64M+6G ViewFinder
philpem@...         | Cheetah: Athlon64 3200+ A8VDeluxeV2 512M+100G
http://www.philpem.me.uk/     | Tiger: Toshiba SatPro4600 Celeron700 256M+40G

fenrir_co wrote:

>>  Just got a C64 Epson with durabright inks off freecycle, so not 
>>missing it too much really.. ;)  Clogged head, but even if it can't 
>>be 
>>made to run it's $45 Epson store credit if not already registered, 
>>plus 
>>bottle the ink, and $12 in Staples return cartridge credits.  $3 of 
>>gas 
>>to go get it, they're great deals at the moment..
>>
>>Alan
>>
>>    
>>
>
>Unfortunately, Staples, Office Depot, etc, will not give credit on 
>Epson or Canon tanks, only Brother, Lexmark, and HP (but they will, 
>of course 'accept them for recycling'). Partially because they're 
>difficult to refill, partially because that they don't resell for 
>enough to make it worth it (Usually around $10-15, depending)
>
>  
>
  Well already has Staples replacement carts in it, and Staples will 
take back their own replacement carts.  Can't find the list ATM but 
pretty sure my R200 was on it at the time since it was what I had..  
While there is for sure a list, a lot of their ads are pretty free about 
saying 'any cartridge', and many stores seem to take in anything you 
hand them without even looking at it too, a lot less PITA at Staples 
than the other places, $3 is $3, try every cartridge you can get..  $45 
Epson store credit is the main deal, other stuff almost doesn't matter 
since this and my R200 credit will pay for all or nearly all of one of 
the cheap durabright printers or a new set of ink for the R200 etc.  
Just wish I hadn't tossed the trashed printer I got from freecycle a few 
weeks before the rebate came online.  But it had ink all over the place 
inside, didn't even bother with the carts since it was such a mess.

Alan

This list?
http://www.epsonsettlement.com/Printers.htm

Robert
:)


> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com 
> [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com] De la part de Alan King
> Envoyé : mai 10 2006 13:40
> À : Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> Objet : Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Thermal Direct Printing - was - 
> Re: CNC board drilling and routing
> >  
> >
>   Well already has Staples replacement carts in it, and Staples will 
> take back their own replacement carts.  Can't find the list ATM but 
> pretty sure my R200 was on it at the time since it was what I had..  
...
> 
> Alan

Robert Hedan wrote:

>This list?
>http://www.epsonsettlement.com/Printers.htm
>
>Robert
>:)
>
>  
>

 Nah that's just the settlement printers..  Someone typed in all the ink 
types Staples takes in for sure on Fatwallet a while back, but it's been 
a while and I don't recall which thread title off hand.  Way too many $3 
Staples ink coupon threads pop up on a search because it's a popular add 
on deal, it's there on FW just not worried enough to look for it now..

Alan

Philip Pemberton wrote:

>
>The thing I *REALLY* don't like about my C64 is that the head's picked up
>some dirt, and now when it starts printing I get a grey/black track down the
>side of the page. Kinda annoying when you're using the uber-expensive
>DuraBrite photo paper...
>
>It is, however, the only inkjet I've found that uses smearproof inks. HP and
>Canon ink seems to run when the paper gets wet, the Epson stuff doesn't.
>YMMV. :)
>
>  
>
  R200 does the same thing now and then, especially if the paper is 
curled a bit in the wrong direction.  I think the paper path doesn't 
100% keep the paper away from the head at least on this one..

  Yep looks like why it manages to stand up to etchant ok.  I have some 
liquid ceramic paint from doing the house, like cold cream in 
consistency.  Thinned out with water it'd probably work through a print 
head, and leaves a good film even when very thin.  Meaning to check it 
for etching, but too many other things to do so haven't etched anything 
for a month or two..  Got too many boards to build and layouts to finish 
already on deck..

  Almost sucks selling things, even when you make $100 on $20 of parts.  
Once it sells then you actually have to build the damn things, it's 
almost a job.. :)  Kind of fun, but can't wait to have an employee to do 
this part..

Alan