Homebrew PCBs

In a continuing search for a better and cheaper toner transfer 
method, 
I've tried a number of different papers. Photo papers, magazine 
pages, 
inkjet papers, label backing and even the parchment baking paper.

The parchment paper worked well with no soaking needed. But 
unfortunately the 'grain' or the texture of the paper occasionnally 
created hairline breaks in the traces. I tried pre treating the 
paper 
by running it though the Laserjet IIIP+ which I've been using. But 
still had some problems.

It appears that a silicone release coating (as seen in the coated 
paper trials) is the key to waterless 
removal. Recently the ladies at the Reynold's kitchens have been 
talking about a new coated non stick foil. I thought it was worth a 
shot.

Boy was I surprised! I attached a small piece of the non-stick foil 
to a regular sheet of paper and ran it through my laserjet IIIP+, 
printing on the non stick side. The printing was sharp and clear. 
Even the board outlines as drawn in EAGLE were clean.

With fingers crossed, I attached it to a clean piece of copper clad 
and ran it through my off-the-shelf laminator. I let it cool.

The foil peeled easily away from the copperclad, leaving all of the 
toner firmly attached to the copperclad and the foil clean.

It looks like the silicone coating on the foil acts as an insulator 
to keep the charge and allow the toner to transfer and then acts as 
a release agent.

The foil transfers the heat easier than paper which acts as an 
insulator.

Anyways, it works. The cost is trivial, about $3 US for 35 square 
feet.

So. during your next trip to the grocery store pick up some 
Reynolds "Release" non=stick aluminum foil. It's probably in the 
same aisle as the chicken grills. :)

Myc

That's very interesting news.

I see a problem with alignment of two-sided there, but i reckon some holes  
solve that nicely.

I'm not sure about the charge though, i don't think it will be there with  
a foil, even if isolated on top. But apparently there's still enough toner.

Have you etched already? I have fantastic looking transfers with silicone  
paper that don't stand up well to etchant.

Do me a favour and check with a multimeter if it is conductive at the  
surface, use the round sides of probes or plugs so the points don't go  
through the surface.

ST


On Tue, 06 Dec 2005 19:07:14 +0100, mycroft2152 <mycroft2152@...>  
wrote:

> In a continuing search for a better and cheaper toner transfer
>
> method,
>
> I've tried a number of different papers. Photo papers, magazine
>
> pages,
>
> inkjet papers, label backing and even the parchment baking paper.
>
>
> The parchment paper worked well with no soaking needed. But
>
> unfortunately the 'grain' or the texture of the paper occasionnally
>
> created hairline breaks in the traces. I tried pre treating the
>
> paper
>
> by running it though the Laserjet IIIP+ which I've been using. But
>
> still had some problems.
>
>
> It appears that a silicone release coating (as seen in the coated
>
> paper trials) is the key to waterless
>
> removal. Recently the ladies at the Reynold's kitchens have been
>
> talking about a new coated non stick foil. I thought it was worth a
>
> shot.
>
>
> Boy was I surprised! I attached a small piece of the non-stick foil
>
> to a regular sheet of paper and ran it through my laserjet IIIP+,
>
> printing on the non stick side. The printing was sharp and clear.
>
> Even the board outlines as drawn in EAGLE were clean.
>
>
> With fingers crossed, I attached it to a clean piece of copper clad
>
> and ran it through my off-the-shelf laminator. I let it cool.
>
>
> The foil peeled easily away from the copperclad, leaving all of the
>
> toner firmly attached to the copperclad and the foil clean.
>
>
> It looks like the silicone coating on the foil acts as an insulator
>
> to keep the charge and allow the toner to transfer and then acts as
>
> a release agent.
>
>
> The foil transfers the heat easier than paper which acts as an
>
> insulator.
>
>
> Anyways, it works. The cost is trivial, about $3 US for 35 square
>
> feet.
>
>
> So. during your next trip to the grocery store pick up some
>
> Reynolds "Release" non=stick aluminum foil. It's probably in the
>
> same aisle as the chicken grills.
>
>
> Myc

Myc--

Thanks! Guess I'm off to the grocery store tonight. ;)

Only thing I haven't liked about the Staples paper is getting the 
paper residue off. This foil could be interesting.

Any tips on how you stuck it to the carrier sheet, and do they remain 
together while you heat, and/or when you remove (soak??) the foil? 
I'll be using the clothes iron process with an aluminum plate 
attached.

                              -Thanks!
George

PS (Stefan)- I was about to post a question about the "etched through" 
sections you're fighting with. Be on the lookout for it. I'm thinking 
of grabbing a roll of Pulsar's TRF from DigiKey. One of my biggest 
problems with the over-etching seems to be from inconsistent chemical 
progress across the board, maybe due to larger masked areas dirtying 
up the etchant and killing it's strength in certain spots, causing me 
to over-etch the others. I had been manually agitating before, and 
have just built one of those small, flat, vertical tanks. It's got two 
bubblers in the bottom and a heater, so things should get a lot better 
soon.

Hi,

I attached a 4" x 6" piece of foil to regualr paper
with a couple of laser compatible labels. I attached
just the leading edge.to avoid wrilkes. The same
procedure that I used for the blue stuff.

I did smooth down the cut edges with my finger.

I noticed that it took less time (passes through the
laminator) to heat up. The paper seems to act as an
insulator. Phot papere takes many more passes than the
Staples paper.

Good luck and let us know your results.

Myc



--- soffee83 <soffee83@...> wrote:

> Myc--
> 
> Thanks! Guess I'm off to the grocery store tonight.
> ;)
> 
> Only thing I haven't liked about the Staples paper
> is getting the 
> paper residue off. This foil could be interesting.
> 
> Any tips on how you stuck it to the carrier sheet,
> and do they remain 
> together while you heat, and/or when you remove
> (soak??) the foil? 
> I'll be using the clothes iron process with an
> aluminum plate 
> attached.
> 
>                               -Thanks!
> George
> 
> PS (Stefan)- I was about to post a question about
> the "etched through" 
> sections you're fighting with. Be on the lookout for
> it. I'm thinking 
> of grabbing a roll of Pulsar's TRF from DigiKey. One
> of my biggest 
> problems with the over-etching seems to be from
> inconsistent chemical 
> progress across the board, maybe due to larger
> masked areas dirtying 
> up the etchant and killing it's strength in certain
> spots, causing me 
> to over-etch the others. I had been manually
> agitating before, and 
> have just built one of those small, flat, vertical
> tanks. It's got two 
> bubblers in the bottom and a heater, so things
> should get a lot better 
> soon.      
> 
> 
> 
> 



		
__________________________________________ 
Yahoo! DSL \ufffd Something to write home about. 
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I just got done trying this and it didnt work well at all.  I taped 
the edges of the foil to regular paper and ran it through the laser 
printer.  I printed on the dull side of the "release" foil.  I think 
the dull side is the one with the magic coating.  Anyway my traces 
are missing spots and have what looks like bubbles throughout.

Is this the kind of results others are having?





--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "soffee83" <soffee83@y...> 
wrote:
>
> Myc--
> 
> Thanks! Guess I'm off to the grocery store tonight. ;)
> 
> Only thing I haven't liked about the Staples paper is getting the 
> paper residue off. This foil could be interesting.
> 
> Any tips on how you stuck it to the carrier sheet, and do they 
remain 
> together while you heat, and/or when you remove (soak??) the foil? 
> I'll be using the clothes iron process with an aluminum plate 
> attached.
> 
>                               -Thanks!
> George
> 
> PS (Stefan)- I was about to post a question about the "etched 
through" 
> sections you're fighting with. Be on the lookout for it. I'm 
thinking 
> of grabbing a roll of Pulsar's TRF from DigiKey. One of my biggest 
> problems with the over-etching seems to be from inconsistent 
chemical 
> progress across the board, maybe due to larger masked areas 
dirtying 
> up the etchant and killing it's strength in certain spots, causing 
me 
> to over-etch the others. I had been manually agitating before, and 
> have just built one of those small, flat, vertical tanks. It's got 
two 
> bubblers in the bottom and a heater, so things should get a lot 
better 
> soon.
>

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "matt clement" <buckeyes1997@y.
..> wrote:
> Is this the kind of results others are having?

I was stuck here and didn't make it out last night. I've got a grocery 
list with me tonight and should be coming home with some. If time 
allows, I'll try to post my results within a day or so.

BTW- Running weird crap through printers gives me the shivers now. I 
broke my Sharp laser printer with a moist cleaning sheet, and it 
hasn't feed right since (I'm thus running an HP now). I may send the 
Reynolds Wrap through the Sharp first to be safe. Also, the 
transparencies I got a few weeks ago have a "grip strip" only down one 
side on the back. I don't know if this stuff's really thin or not, but 
I guess you can't feed it without a carrier right?

        Hope your luck gets better!
George

Hi,
My question is: Did anyone knows about using Plotters
like HP 7474A or alike to make decent PCB's?
Thanks,
Virgil


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Hello,

I have used an HP7470A to plot to
a PCB, it's slow but very useable
the trick is finding the finest felt tip
pen(plotters are sort of obsolete so the
finest I could find is .3mm, too big to
pass between ic legs) for best result
use an oil based permanent ink. I took
a permanent marker which that is oil based
and cut a length of thing that holds
the ink(it's foam in a plastic tubing or someth)
and replaced the one in plotter pen.

Note. I'm new in electronics tho.


--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, virgil antonov <av07@y...> wrote:

>
> Hi,
> My question is: Did anyone knows about using Plotters
> like HP 7474A or alike to make decent PCB's?
> Thanks,
> Virgil
> 
> 
> __________________________________________________
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> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>