Simon Gornall wrote: > The SSR's will arrive in January next year, so perhaps I'll have a > chance to work on it then. > Apart from the chemistry, you're still looking at the high-hundreds > for a reverse-pulse-plating machine if you DIY it. I can't see the > price being much more "affordable" than that if it's sold > commercially. Hi, Which SSR's are you using? Can they do 0.5ms pulses? Or operate at 1V or less? The turn on time and the minimum voltage to operate seems out off necessary range. Most the datasheets i shaw for 10-50A DC SSR's had 10ms maximum turn on time, and 3V minimum required voltage to operate. There was some at sub-0.5ms turn on but for 1A or so. Just wondering did you checked if the SSR's you ordered fit the purpose? Pulse plating documentation refers the value of a good square wave so fast turn on/off is recommended. Mine idea of a plating driver was started by a crazy wish of a electronically regenerated etchant, was to test chemistries than could fit this desire, were very high current densities define the efficiency. Fitting both purposes became not so simple. But any person with it's feet on the ground would just need 2 MOSFETs, 2 PSUs, a dual driver and a MCU with PWM to archive it. STP80NF55 (one for direct other for reverse) and any dual 10V 2A driver gives you around 100ns for less money than one SSR. It helps me some brainstorm-loud-thinking to set some ideas from questions raised on this old thread, so... Trying to understand the copper plating required voltage: Half Cell potential for copper is +0.34V, if i understand the thing right, using both copper anode and cathode there is no minimum required potencial for deposition. According to graphics from cyclic voltametric stripping (CVS) tests used to mesure additive behavior/content, copper start plating right at 0.0V+, it start increasing faster at 0.2~0.3V and this curve can be slower according to additives use. The current increase up to a standing current point, that stands until the water electrolysis voltage. I don't really remember the precise value on the bath i had access to, was something about 2V in the power supply voltmeter. But wires, connections and resistive titanium holders will always increase this value on the power supply stage. Before i tried to get a simple answer to this so i could choose PSU voltage, and got ~0.7 minimum 3V best, and was wrong, i don't find any such reference in any documentation now, and a 5V PSU may only fit if enough resistance exists between PSU and plating cell , or by adding one power resistor in the circuit. Finding water electrolysis voltage value is not easy without having good chemistry skills, i think it's 1.23V, but in a sulfuric bath should be 2.05V but don't know for sure. According to real descriptions shared on this discussion group: One platter and is bought palladium chemistry and additives, say 0.6V for plating voltage. He describes for PSU a 5V toroidal transformer and a light dimmer on AC side for regulation. He later added series rectifier diodes on the DC side to increase the minimum voltage about 3V so the light dimmer work as useful controller. Other platter with is fully homebrew carbon black chemistry describes using a 5V output from an ATX PSU with steel wire as power resistor, using a alligator clip to choose desired current position. He reports 0.7V on the bath 1.6V at PSU with macdermind brightener. Seems to be possible to conclude that plating will occur under 1V and with total connections and wires resistance should be required 2~3V on the PSU. The use of one 5V PSU and a resistor can help the current control. ATX PSUs are a easy choice. I would also wish that adjustable voltage and current could be done for cheap at the PSU directly. I learned that some PSUs from meanwell use DC side simple PWM controllers, with a current sensor. On such, a resistor replacement by pots would be enough to slightly vary voltage/current. One attempt on a 5V 25A PSU didn't fully work, (but at least didn't ended in smoke like other times i tried to hack switched mode PSUs :D) IIRC i made the thing going down from 5V to 2.5V as expected but only goes back up to 3V... I couldn't test the current control because with a 20A multimeter directly connected, the PSU don't even power on, and trying with a steel welding rod as a 1ohm power resistor it didn't turn on either. I have to get something for test load, and the voltage modification isn't convenient done, at the store they didn't had the needed potentiometer values and i ended modifying other resistor values to fit. I have to try again. About the pcb plating, there are plenty people in this group which do it themselves (either by commercial/homebrew machines/chemistries), none of them, by what was shared, seem to bother with reverse pulses. It's an obvious good thing, but not an simpler/complete solution. Currents and pulse times vary with chemistries, and such vary with desired throwing power and aspect ratios. You can find very different&confusing copper/acid ratios between chemistries; high aspect ratio tend to have more acid and less copper; faster high current densities have more copper and less acid; reverse pulse chemistries prefer less acid more copper and highly suppressing current additives (bigger potencial variance for current adjust). Using additives can be PITA in medium term for a non chemistry knowledge guy, like i have experienced. Worst, if using this less often you end not having all the technical stuff present in your mind, ending in mistakes and boring repeated readings, like myself. I would like to replace leveler with reverse pulses and brightener with filtration for my use, but further reading tells me its not quit as first thought, if it works will be like lottery. There is a supplier that promotes additives free, reverse pulse plating chemistry, but their patents don't disclosure much... except it don't use brightener or lever but use catalyst and suppressor (which are not consumed like leveler and brightener and are considered initial setup). Catalyst and suppressor additives are simple chemicals that i got, other 3 organic compounds used as leveler can afterall be found as dye or pH indicator in pure chemical too, but its useless without brightener (Cl-PEG-SPS based system). Brightener is impossible to get as pure chemical in low quantities, only from plating supplies as a set. But for both leveler and brightener were once used thiourea (i also have it) with the downside of lowering plated copper conductivity. In the day i finally manage to get all the chemicals for the activation chemistry i most probably will use a very simple DC plating setup. Too much variables is a bad start. About the graphite drilling activation, i managed to find a old post from the same author of drilling-above-graphite-powder-mechanical-activation about his success rate, were he says better than 1:200 hole failure rate! (but with previous descriptions of 50% failure on <0.6mm holes and a initial success report of 10% failure rates with 1mm holes). So considering 0.8mm vias and a learning curve seems a fair good system. I also managed to find a number for the carbon black bath life. Graphite chemistry can reach one day life, it suffers from CO2 absorption. Carbon black as a problem of losing (???) oxygen, but i never saw bath life quantified. The person says that expect 1-2 years life with his homebrew chemistry. I was guessing much less, and am still curious about how the real life ended to be... About palladium and carbon black. The plating machine i had access to, had quiet some history about misuse of the chemistry. Loosing the palladium bath by drag-on from previous bath because insufficient rising, plated copper peeling off because not yet hot salt remover use, and so. Not only is a bit sensitive but one have to use it rigorously. And people tend to make mistakes with it, i was told that similar machines were without use because owners ended spending more money with it that if ordering the PCBs from a boardhouse. Besides the drying and repeat steps of a carbon black chemistry, if one could mix it from things possible to dump without worrying about money spent or environmental issues, if one damage it, it's always easy to start over. Good year, Simao
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Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Chemical VIAs
2010-12-28 by Simao Cardoso
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