Doepfer

Is the A-136 a simpler and smaller version of the A-137-1 or are there
more significant differences? I don't have the space for both...

Hello Matt

Am 22.01.2012 19:06, schrieb Matt Fretton:
> Is the A-136 a simpler and smaller version of the A-137-1 or are there
> more significant differences? I don't have the space for both...
The A136 is basically like a guitar distortion stomp box going over the 
top - and with the possibility to have different distortion levels for 
the positive and the negative parts of the signal. Technically you may 
think it is a compressor/expander with zero attack and release rate and 
separate ratio and threshold for both half waves.

The A137 is like four simplified A136 stacked up in series. Simplified 
because you do not have separated access to the two half waves. Also you 
do not have access to the parameters of the individual stages. Instead 
of that you control parameters which affect all stage the same way 
(exception 'Folding Level', which decides how "deep" the signals is fed 
into the four stage chain).

Sound wise: The A136 can(!) be a very very good dynamic distortion box, 
but it is not easy to handle. The parameters interact very much, and 
very often one wrong set parameter spoils the effect of another parameter.

The A137 is a little easier to handle, but also here the "damping" 
interaction between different parameters should be obeyed. To my 
experience, it is better not(!) to modulate the A137 with CVs, but 
instead already modulate the signal level of the signal, which feeds the 
A137.

For both modules, I like to use velocity CV, but with quite low 
modulation amount. I like to use them for external polyphonic signals 
(epiano, synths, guitar).

Florian

Hello Florian,

Thanks for this, it's a really helpful explanation.

Really I'd like both but I don't have enough room in my P9 case and don't want to start a separate case again.

Matt

--- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, Florian Anwander <fanwander@...> wrote:

>
> Hello Matt
> 
> Am 22.01.2012 19:06, schrieb Matt Fretton:
> > Is the A-136 a simpler and smaller version of the A-137-1 or are there
> > more significant differences? I don't have the space for both...
> The A136 is basically like a guitar distortion stomp box going over the 
> top - and with the possibility to have different distortion levels for 
> the positive and the negative parts of the signal. Technically you may 
> think it is a compressor/expander with zero attack and release rate and 
> separate ratio and threshold for both half waves.
> 
> The A137 is like four simplified A136 stacked up in series. Simplified 
> because you do not have separated access to the two half waves. Also you 
> do not have access to the parameters of the individual stages. Instead 
> of that you control parameters which affect all stage the same way 
> (exception 'Folding Level', which decides how "deep" the signals is fed 
> into the four stage chain).
> 
> Sound wise: The A136 can(!) be a very very good dynamic distortion box, 
> but it is not easy to handle. The parameters interact very much, and 
> very often one wrong set parameter spoils the effect of another parameter.
> 
> The A137 is a little easier to handle, but also here the "damping" 
> interaction between different parameters should be obeyed. To my 
> experience, it is better not(!) to modulate the A137 with CVs, but 
> instead already modulate the signal level of the signal, which feeds the 
> A137.
> 
> For both modules, I like to use velocity CV, but with quite low 
> modulation amount. I like to use them for external polyphonic signals 
> (epiano, synths, guitar).
> 
> Florian
>

Hi Matt,

to be honest (sorry, Dieter): you can do 70% of the A136 with any 
distortion stomp box (even if it's a $24,99 Behringer fuzz box) if(!) 
you are handling the input signal right. Simple distortion is a much 
neglected aspect of synthesis.

Florian

mfretton wrote:

> Hello Florian,
>
> Thanks for this, it's a really helpful explanation.
>
> Really I'd like both but I don't have enough room in my P9 case and don't want to start a separate case again.
>
> Matt

ok, but the stompbox lacks the cv inputs! that is important IMHO.

 
Bakis 


________________________________

 From: Florian Anwander <fanwander@mnet-online.de>
To: Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2012 10:44 PM
Subject: Re: [Doepfer_a100] Re: What's the difference between the A-136 & A-137-1?
 

  
Hi Matt,

to be honest (sorry, Dieter): you can do 70% of the A136 with any 
distortion stomp box (even if it's a $24,99 Behringer fuzz box) if(!) 
you are handling the input signal right. Simple distortion is a much 
neglected aspect of synthesis.

Florian

mfretton wrote:
> Hello Florian,
>
> Thanks for this, it's a really helpful explanation.
>
> Really I'd like both but I don't have enough room in my P9 case and don't want to start a separate case again.
>
> Matt

 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Bakis,

Bakis Sirros wrote:
> ok, but the stompbox lacks the cv inputs! that is important IMHO.

That is, what I want to say: You don't need CV control for distortion.

Distortion becomes interesting, if the input signal changes already. 
Having a steady input signal, and changing the distortion is mostly 
(90%) unsatisfying.

If you have an steady signal, and increase the distortion threshold, 
then the signal becomes thinner (from psycho acoustical point of view).
If you have a steady signal and increase the level and overtone 
relations of the input signal, then the overall "look and feel" of the 
power of the sound stays the same.

Put an envelope modulated VCF or VCA before a not modulated distortion, 
and you will be happy.


Florian

i get what you say (and agree with the vca before the a136 audio input), but i still also like cv modulation of the a136...    :-)

 
Bakis 


________________________________

 From: Florian Anwander <fanwander@mnet-online.de>
To: Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2012 11:00 PM
Subject: Re: [Doepfer_a100] Re: What's the difference between the A-136 & A-137-1?
 

  
Hi Bakis,

Bakis Sirros wrote:
> ok, but the stompbox lacks the cv inputs! that is important IMHO.

That is, what I want to say: You don't need CV control for distortion.

Distortion becomes interesting, if the input signal changes already. 
Having a steady input signal, and changing the distortion is mostly 
(90%) unsatisfying.

If you have an steady signal, and increase the distortion threshold, 
then the signal becomes thinner (from psycho acoustical point of view).
If you have a steady signal and increase the level and overtone 
relations of the input signal, then the overall "look and feel" of the 
power of the sound stays the same.

Put an envelope modulated VCF or VCA before a not modulated distortion, 
and you will be happy.

Florian

 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Am 23.01.2012 22:07, schrieb Bakis Sirros:
>  but i still also like cv modulation of the a136...    :-)
Yes. Of course CV control is a not a bad thing ;-). I only wanted to 
say: CV control on a waveshaper or a distortion is not comparable to 
lets say: Pulswidth modulation or filter cutoff frequency. You 
definitely cannot say "the more the harder".

I like modulating +L with a very slow LFO and and +A with the inverted 
signal of the same LFO.
Also modulating +A and -A with inverted/noninverted LFOs (same with -L 
and +L).
The most "frustrating" parameter is A as it suppresses the original in 
the center position. It took me months to get this into my head ;-)