Doepfer

Is there, or will there be a [support] forum for the DIY kit ? 
Administrated or not by Doepfer.

If there isn't, anyone considering it ?


And...
Why is there no initial gain on the VCA ?


cheers,
_g

Hi DIeter,

My comments are inline.


--- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, <yahoo@...> wrote:
>
> > Is there, or will there be a [support] forum for the DIY kit ?
> > Administrated or not by Doepfer.
> >
> > If there isn't, anyone considering it ?
> >
> >
> > And...
> > Why is there no initial gain on the VCA ?
> >
> >
> > cheers,
> > _g


> We have no plans for a DIY kit forum. 

Then someone should take that initiative. (not me though, no time)
If only to exchange ideas, wiring diagrams, mods, etc...


>And I have to point out that the DIY
> snth board is not planned for beginners. Electronic experience is required
> to make a working synth from the board.

Of course. No problem.


> Take a look at the (preliminary) manual of the DIY synth (www.doepfer.com >
> NEWS > DIY Snyth > manual). Here you will find the information that for all
> CV and audio inputs even the summing nodes are available (not only the usual
> CV inputs with weighting resistors). This allows to expand the number of CV
> our audio inputs. This is valid also for the CV input of the VCA. You may
> add e.g. one control for initial gain, one for ADSR modulation, one for LFO
> modulation and even an external control input is possible.
> 
> Another remark concering the initial gain of a VCA: we had a lot of troubles
> with the initial gain control of the Dark Energy . A lot of units were sent
> back to us our our dealers/representative for repair. All had the same
> "fault": they generated a permanent tone. The customers overlooked the
> initial gain control as it's not a very common feature. 

"Initial Gain" is not a common feature [on a VCA] ???
Hmm, I beg to differ. A VCA w/o initial gain is not a VCA, IMHO.
Actually, I don't even know of any VCA's w/o initial gain... :-)

I think I'll just wire some rail voltage to a pot and then to the VCA's summing node.

thanks, Dieter.

_g

> In the meantime we
> added a corresponding remark in the user's manual and on our website (FAQ
> page). But nevertheless now and then "faulty" Dark Energy units are sent
> back because of this feature.
> 
> Best wishes
> Dieter Doepfer
> 
> P.S. I'm not in the office from tomorrow (March 30,2010) until Easter. So I
> will not be able to answer to questions in this forum.
>

> Is there, or will there be a [support] forum for the DIY kit ?
> Administrated or not by Doepfer.
>
> If there isn't, anyone considering it ?
>
>
> And...
> Why is there no initial gain on the VCA ?
>
>
> cheers,
> _g

We have no plans for a DIY kit forum. And I have to point out that the DIY
snth board is not planned for beginners. Electronic experience is required
to make a working synth from the board.

Take a look at the (preliminary) manual of the DIY synth (www.doepfer.com >
NEWS > DIY Snyth > manual). Here you will find the information that for all
CV and audio inputs even the summing nodes are available (not only the usual
CV inputs with weighting resistors). This allows to expand the number of CV
our audio inputs. This is valid also for the CV input of the VCA. You may
add e.g. one control for initial gain, one for ADSR modulation, one for LFO
modulation and even an external control input is possible.

Another remark concering the initial gain of a VCA: we had a lot of troubles
with the initial gain control of the Dark Energy . A lot of units were sent
back to us our our dealers/representative for repair. All had the same
"fault": they generated a permanent tone. The customers overlooked the
initial gain control as it's not a very common feature. In the meantime we
added a corresponding remark in the user's manual and on our website (FAQ
page). But nevertheless now and then "faulty" Dark Energy units are sent
back because of this feature.

Best wishes
Dieter Doepfer

P.S. I'm not in the office from tomorrow (March 30,2010) until Easter. So I
will not be able to answer to questions in this forum.

Well i guess it's there but if you look on a Minimoog the VCA doesn't seem to have an initial gain pot. The prophet 5, the Obxa and arp odyssey have non either - just to name a few. All modulars have but not hardwired synths. 

Keld

> 
> "Initial Gain" is not a common feature [on a VCA] ???
> Hmm, I beg to differ. A VCA w/o initial gain is not a VCA, IMHO.
> Actually, I don't even know of any VCA's w/o initial gain... :-)
>

Those are all pre-patched synths. That doesn't count, honey ;-)
It wouldn't surprise me that the "demise of Initial Gain" in preset  and/or typical keyboard synths has begun when those manuf's got all their prototypes back with a note saying something like "hey, I can't switch it off!", just as Dieter explained.

After that they started to diminish its role, and tucked it away -- preferably in the upper left corner -- and disguised it under a different name. "Volume" or something non-descript...
A bit later the VCA almost completely disappeared, and served the humble role to provide for the "volume envelope", and/or tremelo-duty.

A shame.

As long as the player uses the classical VCO-VCF-ENVELOPE paradigm, an initial gain is most likely not necessary, indeed. Anything else, and you'll need initial gain.

One can't have enough VCA's in his system. *With* initial gain.
The most underrated function block in a synth system.

_g

--- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, "KeldS" <keldsorensen@...> wrote:

>
> Well i guess it's there but if you look on a Minimoog the VCA doesn't seem to have an initial gain pot. The prophet 5, the Obxa and arp odyssey have non either - just to name a few. All modulars have but not hardwired synths. 
> 
> Keld
> 
> > 
> > "Initial Gain" is not a common feature [on a VCA] ???
> > Hmm, I beg to differ. A VCA w/o initial gain is not a VCA, IMHO.
> > Actually, I don't even know of any VCA's w/o initial gain... :-)
> >
>

the arp Odyssey, actually, has an initial gain slider.

also, the Doepfer A132 does not have an initial gain knob, of course...



Bakis Sirros - Parallel Worlds / Interconnected / Memory Geist

[Doepfer_a100] group owner

www. parallel - worlds - music. com

www. myspace. com/ parallelworldsmusic

www. myspace. com/ interconnectedmusic

www. myspace. com/ memorygeist

www. DiN. org. uk

www. musicamaximamagnetica. com

www. vu-us. com

--- On Mon, 3/29/10, KeldS <keldsorensen@mail1.stofanet.dk> wrote:

From: KeldS <keldsorensen@mail1.stofanet.dk>
Subject: [Doepfer_a100] Re: DIY Synth Group
To: Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, March 29, 2010, 12:45 PM







 



  


    
      
      
      Well i guess it's there but if you look on a Minimoog the VCA doesn't seem to have an initial gain pot. The prophet 5, the Obxa and arp odyssey have non either - just to name a few. All modulars have but not hardwired synths. 



Keld



> 

> "Initial Gain" is not a common feature [on a VCA] ???

> Hmm, I beg to differ. A VCA w/o initial gain is not a VCA, IMHO.

> Actually, I don't even know of any VCA's w/o initial gain... :-)

> 





    
     

    
    


 



  






      

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Keld

> All modulars have but not hardwired synths. 
Nearly all the monophonic Rolands had it - typically named "Hold": SH1 
SH3 SH5 have it as potentiometer. SH2 SH09 and SH101 only as a 
switchposition. The System 100 named it "initial Level". System 100m and 
System 700 had no dedicated naming for it. The only exception was the 
Promars.



Florian

That's just the point. A lot of us started out on hardwired synths - and switched to modulars later - and getting confused by not being able to turn the sound of.... because the gain of the final VCA was above zero. That seems to be Dieters problem with users too. 

Keld

--- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, "Guy" <guy@...> wrote:

>
> 
> Those are all pre-patched synths. That doesn't count, honey ;-)
> It wouldn't surprise me that the "demise of Initial Gain" in preset  and/or typical keyboard synths has begun when those manuf's got all their prototypes back with a note saying something like "hey, I can't switch it off!", just as Dieter explained.
> 
> After that they started to diminish its role, and tucked it away -- preferably in the upper left corner -- and disguised it under a different name. "Volume" or something non-descript...
> A bit later the VCA almost completely disappeared, and served the humble role to provide for the "volume envelope", and/or tremelo-duty.
> 
> A shame.
> 
> As long as the player uses the classical VCO-VCF-ENVELOPE paradigm, an initial gain is most likely not necessary, indeed. Anything else, and you'll need initial gain.
> 
> One can't have enough VCA's in his system. *With* initial gain.
> The most underrated function block in a synth system.
> 
> _g
> 
> --- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, "KeldS" <keldsorensen@> wrote:
> >
> > Well i guess it's there but if you look on a Minimoog the VCA doesn't seem to have an initial gain pot. The prophet 5, the Obxa and arp odyssey have non either - just to name a few. All modulars have but not hardwired synths. 
> > 
> > Keld
> > 
> > > 
> > > "Initial Gain" is not a common feature [on a VCA] ???
> > > Hmm, I beg to differ. A VCA w/o initial gain is not a VCA, IMHO.
> > > Actually, I don't even know of any VCA's w/o initial gain... :-)
> > >
> >
>

Hi Keld

> ...The prophet 5, the Obxa... 
This just comes to my sight: Initial Gain does not make sense at 
polyphonic synths, because you would have humming all voices all the 
time - no matter, whether their actual note fits in the played chord or not.

At polyphonc synths it had to be replaced by the hold function and 
sustainlevel of the VCA-env and all used in a non rotating voice algorithm.

Florian