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Re: Epson 1800 and the 2200--Is this a good deal?

Re: Epson 1800 and the 2200--Is this a good deal?

2007-12-14 by Myron Gochnauer

> Nancy, if you are looking for neutral, archival b/w prints that  
> don't use ANY color inks, the
> 1800 is your printer....that is, using Paul Roark's workflow.
>          http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/R1800.htm
> check it out before you decide to relegate the 1800 to the back  
> burner for color glossies
> only. I am dying to try this approach but can't afford a new printer  
> right now. I'm still using
> my 2200, but only for certain images that take well to a single ink  
> BO approach. Paul's
> workflow uses three Eboni inks, and with the smaller droplets in the  
> 1800, prints are
> reported to be heavenly smooth. You can also still print color w/o  
> changing inks, but only
> on matte.

I have an R1800 with Paul's setup, as well as a 2200 loaded with MIS's  
UT-3D inks.

Aside from issues of how warm or cool I want the image to be, I have  
found the UT-3D setup to be slightly better than the 3-black R1800  
only for the rare image that includes fog or mist.  This might be a  
matter of taste, though. I didn't have any reservation about printing  
a commissioned portrait with the R1800 system.

As a *machine* I prefer the R1800 to the 2200. It is noticeably  
faster, but more importantly it has a more advanced method of head  
cleaning and alignment, and has excess-ink draining tubes that are  
fairly easy to access (and hence to run directly into an external  
container).

I heard one photographer complain about the color produced by the  
R1800 (in comparison with the 2200 and 2400), but I didn't find out  
what he thought the problem was.

Nonetheless, the 2400 was the replacement for the 2200, not the 1800,  
so Epson should at least have talked with you before "down-replacing"  
your 2200!

Myron

Re: Epson 1800 and the 2200--Is this a good deal?

2007-12-15 by Clayton Price

> Nancy, if you are looking for neutral, archival b/w prints that
 > don't use ANY color inks, the
 > 1800 is your printer....that is, using Paul Roark's workflow.
 > http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/R1800.htm
 > check it out before you decide to relegate the 1800 to the back
 > burner for color glossies
 > only.

Hi All -
I don't post too often, and this, in no way, is meant to criticize or  
otherwise
be critical of the work and other interesting methods so many of you  
are using UT-3D, Ebony-7,
or any other inks & combinations. It's always inspiring to read and  
appreciate how much energy
is being devoted to the black and white print. And, I might add, in  
my opinion, the digital
carbon pigment inks have finally surpassed the quality  of silver  
prints -- at least on matte papers.

That said, it doesn't appear that a lot of people on this group are  
using Jon Cone's piezography inks,
and I'm not connected in any way with him or his company, other than  
having used them first
in an Epson 3000 (beautiful carbon prints when the printer was  
working correctly and
the inks were not clogging), then on an 1160 with a CIS, through the  
next iteration or
two of his inks (also with a lot of time used in clearing clogged  
heads), and finally in my 2200,
which I originally beta tested for Epson.

When the 2400 arrived even better  color, I started using Cone"s  
latest K7 inks in the 2200. They are stunning
  and I've not had a single clog, even after non-use for a full month  
this summer. Apparently, the
carrier solution is a close chemical relative to anti-freeze, which  
has a
very slow rate of evaporation, and therefore doesn't dry up and clog.  
It's not a solvent, since carbon pigments are in
suspension, not dissolved, and is pretty much the same as in the  
Epson Ultrachrome K3 inks. This, at least, has been my
experience with both the 2200 and the color in the 2400.

The issue of warmer and cooler prints, for me, has  been resolved by  
purchasing some Sepia
carts which can be inserted in place of any of the black set  
positions. By inserting sepia in the No. 4
or 5 position, I've been able to print a warmer black. One could put   
Selenium into the mix and
cool it down or do combinations of color tone.  All are  
interchangeable without flushing, and in fact
are exactly compatible with one another when using the QTR rip.

Of course the newest issue we all face is the Epson law suite and the  
ruling by the FTC over use of
3rd party cartridges. Jon has been selling his desktop printer stock  
at deep discount before the cutoff date
(sometime in December). Fortunately I have several sets of inks.   
Although not advertised, the Cone cartridges
have a small Silicon stopper on the top (after you snap apart the  
cart), and can be easily refilled.
So I purchased  4 ounce bottles of the inks, and should be able to do  
my own refills for quite a while.
This, in preference to obtaining another CIS, which would be good,  
other than my printing needs
these days, are not much in quantity.

Finally, a word about the 2200, which nobody has mentioned. Aside  
from the standard paper feed, which skips
occasionally, and mostly can be corrected by rubbing the rubber  
rollers with a damp rag -(you can see them if
you look straight down into the top paper feed.); the 2200 has two  
other paper feeds - one for paper rolls, and the
other, which is terrific, feeds straight through the printer - back  
to front, and will handle printing on very thick paper -
even cardboard. Someone mentioned that it would even print on  
Masonite, although I wouldn't try that.  A lever
with several positions raises the heads to compensate for the  
different thicknesses. It works very well, and I guess
was too good to be true, because as far as I know none of the desktop  
printer since then has such a paper feed.
anyone know if that's actually the case?

Clay Price

Clayton Price Photographer
  www.cpricephoto.com
  clay@...
  212 929-7721	









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Re: Epson 1800 and the 2200--Is this a good deal?

2007-12-16 by John Patric

Interesting post, Clayton.  And it got me thinking, albeit a bit late
given the Epson suit and all.  I've had a 2200 for about 4 years and
always used Ep$on inks (not wanting to stray too far from a normal
path).  Always had difficulty getting nice b&w until (through this
forum) I found QTR.

Last week I got a fabulous deal on a 3800 and went for it.  Now I feel
a bit more comfy bending the 2200 paradigm and going for alternative
inks.  Now I fear it may be too late given the suit and its results
for Epson.

On the one hand, as a photographer, I completely understand and accept
the importance of intellectual property but I believe that if Epson
isn't filling an important void for the community then they aren't
entirely living up to the promise of providing the very best in
digital imaging.

Does anyone know if there might be room for compromise after the dust
settles?

With thanks.

...jpprice...

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