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Harman Vs past and future ?

Harman Vs past and future ?

2007-03-16 by djon43

Poor Dmax, fragile with some popular inks, erratic batches.  That
appears to summarize recent reports by this site's experts. Wildly
expensive, as well.

That suggests it can't compete with other silver-emulating favorites
or fine, well-known, moderately-priced, honestly-inkjet photo art papers. 

Fair conclusions?  

If Harman's former Ilford techs disappoint big-market retail customers
(= Adorama shoppers ), baryta coated paper won't be the future
...unless  a quick fix saves the brand...reportedly nobody else is in
the baryta game. 

Am I missing something?

Re: [Digital BW] Harman Vs past and future ?

2007-03-16 by Carl Schofield

Pictorico Velvety paper?  I don't know if it really is a baryta  
paper.  Nice surface and prints well with my MIS K4 inks.  What I  
don't like is the relatively thin base and weight.
http://www.pictorico.com/category/13-Velvety-Paper.htm

Carl
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Mar 16, 2007, at 11:00 AM, djon43 wrote:

> Poor Dmax, fragile with some popular inks, erratic batches.  That
> appears to summarize recent reports by this site's experts. Wildly
> expensive, as well.
>
> That suggests it can't compete with other silver-emulating favorites
> or fine, well-known, moderately-priced, honestly-inkjet photo art  
> papers.
>
> Fair conclusions?
>
> If Harman's former Ilford techs disappoint big-market retail customers
> (= Adorama shoppers ), baryta coated paper won't be the future
> ...unless  a quick fix saves the brand...reportedly nobody else is in
> the baryta game.
>
> Am I missing something?

Re: [Digital BW] Harman Vs past and future ?

2007-03-16 by Ernst Dinkla

djon43 wrote:
> Poor Dmax, fragile with some popular inks, erratic batches.  That
> appears to summarize recent reports by this site's experts. Wildly
> expensive, as well.
> 
> That suggests it can't compete with other silver-emulating favorites
> or fine, well-known, moderately-priced, honestly-inkjet photo art papers. 
> 
> Fair conclusions?  
> 
> If Harman's former Ilford techs disappoint big-market retail customers
> (= Adorama shoppers ), baryta coated paper won't be the future
> ...unless  a quick fix saves the brand...reportedly nobody else is in
> the baryta game. 
> 
> Am I missing something? 

Not that much. The only thing I was missing was a hint that 
there was nano technology used in the coating :-)


Met vriendelijke groeten,Ernst


|  Dinkla Grafische Techniek  |
|     www.pigment-print.com    |
|             ( unvollendet )            |

RE: [Digital BW] Harman Vs past and future ?

2007-03-16 by Eric Neilsen Photo

Those are not the conclusions that I reach from the users reporting. I don't
jump to such wild conclusions without good empirical data; not hap hazard
data collection. I don't use MIS INKS at all, never have and can't say
whether the inks are of consistent high quality and I haven't used it on
other matte paper so I can't conclude that it is perfect or near perfect
match for the paper. As I previously suggested, and deviation for a standard
set that is tested can't be held against the paper, it however be held
against the instruction sheet. We have tested this paper and found to
perform on blah blah.  While it is in early release and has some bugs to
work out in perhaps they are flaws in marketing it not a flawed product. 

 

Is Lightroom a flawed product? It is in early release and is showing, at
least to me, some severe short coming in certain areas. It is perhaps, that
want the product to do something its designers had not intended. I would
also look at just how big of the market the "popular" inks really represent
before I start dismissing it. It took Colorbyte several years to move off of
the Epson ink and paper only profiles, don't you think that making a paper
that works for K3 MK users might represent a much bigger market than mixed
users of MIS with Epson product? 

 

IS the Dmax really poor compared to other matte papers? Or just compared to
a Dmax for products designed for a high dmax and different market share? 

 

I for one am reserving judgment until I see a response from Harmon. 

 

We all know that inks settle, are those that are having problems finally
showing weaknesses in their own house keeping? I'd agree that a paper that
has a very small sweet spot needs to make the users aware of that prior to
release but how do they know until the problems become apparent? 

 

 

 

Eric Neilsen Photography

4101 Commerce Street, Suite 9

Dallas, TX 75226

214-827-8301

http://ericneilsenphotography.com

 

Skype : ejprinter

  _____
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of djon43
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 10:01 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] Harman Vs past and future ?

 

Poor Dmax, fragile with some popular inks, erratic batches. That
appears to summarize recent reports by this site's experts. Wildly
expensive, as well.

That suggests it can't compete with other silver-emulating favorites
or fine, well-known, moderately-priced, honestly-inkjet photo art papers. 

Fair conclusions? 

If Harman's former Ilford techs disappoint big-market retail customers
(= Adorama shoppers ), baryta coated paper won't be the future
...unless a quick fix saves the brand...reportedly nobody else is in
the baryta game. 

Am I missing something? 

 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

RE: [Digital BW] Harman Vs past and future ?

2007-03-16 by David Whistance

I agree, it is much too early to write the paper off, particularly as in
most cases we don't run our fingernails, or indeed anthing else sharp down
our prints!  However having just run off 20 or so copies of a print on this
paper for the next print exchange I do agree that MIS inks come off the
paper remarkably easily when scratched, even when they have dried for
several days.  The ink does not rub off with finger pressure though.

To me at least, the prints look very acceptable, everyone else in the
exchange will have to judge for themselves.

I have been meaning to try out the Cone NK7 inks on this paper but haven't
had time yet, hopefully they will be a bit more scratch resistant.

David Whistance
Show quoted textHide quoted text
  -----Original Message-----
  From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Eric
Neilsen Photo
  Sent: 16 March 2007 17:15
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Harman Vs past and future ?


  Those are not the conclusions that I reach from the users reporting. I
don't
  jump to such wild conclusions without good empirical data; not hap hazard
  data collection. I don't use MIS INKS at all, never have and can't say
  whether the inks are of consistent high quality and I haven't used it on
  other matte paper so I can't conclude that it is perfect or near perfect
  match for the paper. As I previously suggested, and deviation for a
standard
  set that is tested can't be held against the paper, it however be held
  against the instruction sheet. We have tested this paper and found to
  perform on blah blah. While it is in early release and has some bugs to
  work out in perhaps they are flaws in marketing it not a flawed product.

  Is Lightroom a flawed product? It is in early release and is showing, at
  least to me, some severe short coming in certain areas. It is perhaps,
that
  want the product to do something its designers had not intended. I would
  also look at just how big of the market the "popular" inks really
represent
  before I start dismissing it. It took Colorbyte several years to move off
of
  the Epson ink and paper only profiles, don't you think that making a paper
  that works for K3 MK users might represent a much bigger market than mixed
  users of MIS with Epson product?

  IS the Dmax really poor compared to other matte papers? Or just compared
to
  a Dmax for products designed for a high dmax and different market share?

  I for one am reserving judgment until I see a response from Harmon.

  We all know that inks settle, are those that are having problems finally
  showing weaknesses in their own house keeping? I'd agree that a paper that
  has a very small sweet spot needs to make the users aware of that prior to
  release but how do they know until the problems become apparent?

  Eric Neilsen Photography

  4101 Commerce Street, Suite 9

  Dallas, TX 75226

  214-827-8301

  http://ericneilsenphotography.com

  Skype : ejprinter

  _____

  From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
  [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of djon43
  Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 10:01 AM
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: [Digital BW] Harman Vs past and future ?

  Poor Dmax, fragile with some popular inks, erratic batches. That
  appears to summarize recent reports by this site's experts. Wildly
  expensive, as well.

  That suggests it can't compete with other silver-emulating favorites
  or fine, well-known, moderately-priced, honestly-inkjet photo art papers.

  Fair conclusions?

  If Harman's former Ilford techs disappoint big-market retail customers
  (= Adorama shoppers ), baryta coated paper won't be the future
  ...unless a quick fix saves the brand...reportedly nobody else is in
  the baryta game.

  Am I missing something?

  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



  


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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