Digital BW, The Print

Hello,
I wondered how many of us always frame pigment prints with conservation glass.

To keep prices down I use plain glass, but wonder if I should be using uv protective glass to ensure longevity.

I had a poster up in a cafe advertising my portrait services and in a year it had gone quite green - that was with Ultrachromes on Epson Matte Heavyweight. I don't know how much protection plain glass gives - not much I would think.

thanks,
Richard
--
http://smallfield.vze.com
http://photos.smallfield.vze.com (Photos web site)
http://warkworth.vze.com/ (Warkworth photo essay)


   "Logic:  The art of thinking and reasoning in strict accordance with
   the limitations and incapacities of the human misunderstanding."
   --Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary"

Hey Richard
I am sure conservation glass helps, but in your case I
bet it was the paper choice. Epson Matte Heavyweight
is not meant for pigment ink, also it is a
non-archival acidic paper. So I betcha that is the
real issue in this case.
Right On
John E

--- Richard Smallfield <r.smallfield@...>
wrote:

> Hello,
> I wondered how many of us always frame pigment
> prints with conservation glass.
> 
> To keep prices down I use plain glass, but wonder if
> I should be using uv protective glass to ensure
> longevity.
> 
> I had a poster up in a cafe advertising my portrait
> services and in a year it had gone quite green -
> that was with Ultrachromes on Epson Matte
> Heavyweight. I don't know how much protection plain
> glass gives - not much I would think.
> 
> thanks,
> Richard
> --
> http://smallfield.vze.com
> http://photos.smallfield.vze.com (Photos web site)
> http://warkworth.vze.com/ (Warkworth photo essay)
> 
> 
>    "Logic:  The art of thinking and reasoning in
> strict accordance with
>    the limitations and incapacities of the human
> misunderstanding."
>    --Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary"
> 
>

It's the paper. Think about using anything else.
Mark

On Nov 28, 2006, at 2:43 AM, Richard Smallfield wrote:

>  Epson Matte Heavyweight.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

At 01:11 AM Wednesday 11/29/2006, you wrote:
>It's the paper. Think about using anything else.
>Mark

Thanks ... I don't use it any more. I just got a roll of Entrada Bright.

I'm trying to think what I can do with 100ft of EEM though. What a waste of money. Will order some PremierArt Matte when finances permit.

thanks,
Richard 
--
http://smallfield.vze.com
http://photos.smallfield.vze.com (Photos web site)
http://warkworth.vze.com/ (Warkworth photo essay)


   "There is no cause so right that one cannot find a fool following it."
   --Niven's Law # 16

It's good for anything that will not be around very long, signage,  
xmas cards, bird cage liner, etc.

On Nov 28, 2006, at 8:15 AM, Richard Smallfield wrote:

> I'm trying to think what I can do with 100ft of EEM though



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> I had a poster up in a cafe ... and in a year it had 
> gone quite green - that was with Ultrachromes on 
> Epson Matte Heavyweight. I don't know how much 
> protection plain glass gives - not much I would think.

That's a bit disturbing.  I doubt the paper is the main culprit.  I'd guess
the café has lots of windows that let in sunlight.  The UV simply wiped out
the magenta pigments -- the weaklings in our B&W setups.  (I'm not sure if
this poster was B&W or color.  My comments are aimed at B&W.)

Plain glass filters out the worst (shortest wavelengths) of the UV, but
sunlight still has lots of UV that will get through.  The café probably has
windows that take care of the short UV.  So, your plain glass over the image
didn't add much.

UV glass would definitely help.  Even plain acrylic would help a bit -- but
not that much.

A UV spray would help also, and it might be cheaper than the UV glass.  The
2 together might be the best bet. 

Don't use the OEM Epson B&W solutions.  They have more of the weak magenta
in them.

Print with a tone that is as warm as looks good in the circumstances.  The
warmer the tone, the less magenta there is to fade.  It'll also hide the
green shift a bit more.  MIS carbon does not fade to green.  The more of the
image that is carbon, the better. 

And, of course, switch to a better paper.

For the current museum project I'm on, I'm using MIS 3D inks (use R800 blue
and no magenta) and Premier Art Fine Art Hot Press 325.  (This coating --
same as Ultra Smooth -- does the best in my fade tests and also Wilhelm's.)
I'm printing them with a medium warm tone and spraying them with PremierArt
Print Shield, which has a UV blocker.  

One does need to take the advertised "years of display" with a grain of
salt.  These are based on rather ideal circumstances.  Fading is still a
risk that needs to be managed.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

If you buy conservation glass by the box the price isn't so bad. For example, a box of 
16x20 Tru Vue Conservation Clear costs around $75. For 23 sheets, that's $3.26 per 
sheet.  

Less expenseive than having a 16x20 sheet of regular single-strength window 
glass cut at the local window glass store.

Brad
Prison pix:  http://www.citysnaps.net/AlcaBook/Alcatraz



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Richard Smallfield 
<r.smallfield@...> wrote:
>
> Hello,
> I wondered how many of us always frame pigment prints with conservation glass.
> 
> To keep prices down I use plain glass, but wonder if I should be using uv protective 
glass to ensure longevity.
> 
> I had a poster up in a cafe advertising my portrait services and in a year it had gone 
quite green - that was with Ultrachromes on Epson Matte Heavyweight. I don't know how 
much protection plain glass gives - not much I would think.

> 
> thanks,
> Richard
> --
> http://smallfield.vze.com
> http://photos.smallfield.vze.com (Photos web site)
> http://warkworth.vze.com/ (Warkworth photo essay)
> 
> 
>    "Logic:  The art of thinking and reasoning in strict accordance with
>    the limitations and incapacities of the human misunderstanding."
>    --Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary"
>

Conservation Clear is not the museum glass.  Different stuff.
   
  Tom Baker

bradspix <b-evans@...> wrote:
          If you buy conservation glass by the box the price isn't so bad. For example, a box of 
16x20 Tru Vue Conservation Clear costs around $75. For 23 sheets, that's $3.26 per 
sheet. 

Less expenseive than having a 16x20 sheet of regular single-strength window 
glass cut at the local window glass store.

Brad
Prison pix: http://www.citysnaps.net/AlcaBook/Alcatraz

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Richard Smallfield 
<r.smallfield@...> wrote:
>
> Hello,
> I wondered how many of us always frame pigment prints with conservation glass.
> 
> To keep prices down I use plain glass, but wonder if I should be using uv protective 
glass to ensure longevity.
> 
> I had a poster up in a cafe advertising my portrait services and in a year it had gone 
quite green - that was with Ultrachromes on Epson Matte Heavyweight. I don't know how 
much protection plain glass gives - not much I would think.
> 
> thanks,
> Richard
> --
> http://smallfield.vze.com
> http://photos.smallfield.vze.com (Photos web site)
> http://warkworth.vze.com/ (Warkworth photo essay)
> 
> 
> "Logic: The art of thinking and reasoning in strict accordance with
> the limitations and incapacities of the human misunderstanding."
> --Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary"
>



         


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

At 11:45 AM 11/28/2006, bradspix wrote:

>If you buy conservation glass by the box the price isn't so bad. For 
>example, a box of
>16x20 Tru Vue Conservation Clear costs around $75. For 23 sheets, 
>that's $3.26 per
>sheet.

Where do you buy it ... especially where by the box?

And have you ever tried the conservation plexi?





	A r t h u r    F i n k    P h o t o g r a p h y
	-----------------------------------------------
	Ten New Island Avenue         land 207.766.5722
	Peaks Island, Maine 04108     cell 207.615.5722
	www.arthurfinkphoto.com  af@...

	 Photographing people, places, objects, events

Musuem Glass was not mentioned.

She was talking about UV-blocking glass. Which Conservation Clear is. No individual I 
know sells regular prints framed in the **much** more expensive Tru Vue Museum Glass, 
which also has reflection-controlling properties. The UV-blocking characteristics of both 
Museum Glass and Conservation Clear is the same - 98%.  


Brad
Prison pix: http://www.citysnaps.net/AlcaBook/Alcatraz


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Tom Baker <tbaker1328@...> 
wrote:
>
> Conservation Clear is not the museum glass.  Different stuff.
>    
>   Tom Baker
> 
> bradspix <b-evans@...> wrote:
>           If you buy conservation glass by the box the price isn't so bad. For example, a 
box of 
> 16x20 Tru Vue Conservation Clear costs around $75. For 23 sheets, that's $3.26 per 
> sheet. 
> 
> Less expenseive than having a 16x20 sheet of regular single-strength window 
> glass cut at the local window glass store.
> 
> Brad
> Prison pix: http://www.citysnaps.net/AlcaBook/Alcatraz
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Richard Smallfield 
> <r.smallfield@> wrote:
> >
> > Hello,
> > I wondered how many of us always frame pigment prints with conservation glass.
> > 
> > To keep prices down I use plain glass, but wonder if I should be using uv protective 
> glass to ensure longevity.
> > 
> > I had a poster up in a cafe advertising my portrait services and in a year it had gone 
> quite green - that was with Ultrachromes on Epson Matte Heavyweight. I don't know 
how 

> much protection plain glass gives - not much I would think.
> > 
> > thanks,
> > Richard
> > --
> > http://smallfield.vze.com
> > http://photos.smallfield.vze.com (Photos web site)
> > http://warkworth.vze.com/ (Warkworth photo essay)
> > 
> > 
> > "Logic: The art of thinking and reasoning in strict accordance with
> > the limitations and incapacities of the human misunderstanding."
> > --Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary"
> >
> 
> 
> 
>          
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

You can purchase Tru Vue glass by the box through an art supply distributor.  Needs to be 
local as a box of 16x20 weighs around 50 pounds - too expensive (IMO) to ship.

In the SF Bay Area Hankins-Koppel is a good source. I suspect there's a similar distributor 
in Maine.

Good luck!

Brad
Prison pix:  http://www.citysnaps.net/AlcaBook/Alcatraz





--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Arthur Fink <af@...> wrote:

>
> At 11:45 AM 11/28/2006, bradspix wrote:
> 
> >If you buy conservation glass by the box the price isn't so bad. For 
> >example, a box of
> >16x20 Tru Vue Conservation Clear costs around $75. For 23 sheets, 
> >that's $3.26 per
> >sheet.
> 
> Where do you buy it ... especially where by the box?
> 
> And have you ever tried the conservation plexi?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 	A r t h u r    F i n k    P h o t o g r a p h y
> 	-----------------------------------------------
> 	Ten New Island Avenue         land 207.766.5722
> 	Peaks Island, Maine 04108     cell 207.615.5722
> 	www.arthurfinkphoto.com  af@...
> 
> 	 Photographing people, places, objects, events
>

In a message dated 11/28/06 2:17:27 PM, b-evans@... writes:


> 
> In the SF Bay Area Hankins-Koppel is a good source. I suspect there's a 
> similar distributor
> in Maine.
> 
"Local" sources in Maine tend to mean Boston. Definately not on Peaks Island, 
but a quick ferry ride gets you to Portland; if its going to be found in 
Maine, it will be in Portland.

C. David Tobie
Product Technology Manager
ColorVision Business Unit
Datacolor Inc.
CDTobie@...
www.colorvision.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

At 02:21 PM 11/28/2006, you wrote:

>
>"Local" sources in Maine tend to mean Boston. Definately not on Peaks Island,
>but a quick ferry ride gets you to Portland; if its going to be found in
>Maine, it will be in Portland.

Actually I've an office in Portland largely so that I don't have to 
deal with glass, board, portfolios, etc. going back and forth on the ferry!

But I've never found a glass distributor who would sell to me.  I 
deal with United Mfgrs for my mat board and metal frames, buying 50+ 
sheets at a time.  They treat me as if I were a valued customer.



	A r t h u r    F i n k    P h o t o g r a p h y
	-----------------------------------------------
	Ten New Island Avenue         land 207.766.5722
	Peaks Island, Maine 04108     cell 207.615.5722
	www.arthurfinkphoto.com  af@...

	 Photographing people, places, objects, events

In a message dated 11/28/06 3:25:16 PM, af@... writes:


> Actually I've an office in Portland largely so that I don't have to
> deal with glass, board, portfolios, etc. going back and forth on the ferry!
> 
> But I've never found a glass distributor who would sell to me. 
> 

Portland Glass won't order this stuff for you? They don't have to actually 
know what it is; just order it. <G>

C. David Tobie
Product Technology Manager
ColorVision Business Unit
Datacolor Inc.
CDTobie@...
www.colorvision.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>You can purchase Tru Vue glass by the box through an 
> art supply distributor. 

> Needs to be local ...

They don't seem to like to ship the product.  I'd guess breakage is also an
issue.  M & M has referred me to other distributors due to my being out of
their area.  See http://www.mmdistributors.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv 

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Here's a 3 page Tru Vue brochure listing their glass products and properties if any one is 
interested:

   http://www.tru-vue.com/container/Glass%20charts.pdf


Brad
Prison pix: http://www.citysnaps.net/AlcaBook/Alcatraz



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark" <paul.roark@...> 
wrote:

>
> 
> 
> >You can purchase Tru Vue glass by the box through an 
> > art supply distributor. 
> 
> > Needs to be local ...
> 
> They don't seem to like to ship the product.  I'd guess breakage is also an
> issue.  M & M has referred me to other distributors due to my being out of
> their area.  See http://www.mmdistributors.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv 
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com
>

Yep.  Not many folks want to spend the money.  I've only seen on print in a gallery framed with Museum glass.  It's sure is nice, though.  Whatever is behind it looks better than without anything at all.
   
  Tom Baker

bradspix <b-evans@...> wrote:
          Musuem Glass was not mentioned.

She was talking about UV-blocking glass. Which Conservation Clear is. No individual I 
know sells regular prints framed in the **much** more expensive Tru Vue Museum Glass, 
which also has reflection-controlling properties. The UV-blocking characteristics of both 
Museum Glass and Conservation Clear is the same - 98%. 

Brad
Prison pix: http://www.citysnaps.net/AlcaBook/Alcatraz

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Tom Baker <tbaker1328@...> 
wrote:
>
> Conservation Clear is not the museum glass. Different stuff.
> 
> Tom Baker
> 
> bradspix <b-evans@...> wrote:
> If you buy conservation glass by the box the price isn't so bad. For example, a 
box of 
> 16x20 Tru Vue Conservation Clear costs around $75. For 23 sheets, that's $3.26 per 
> sheet. 
> 
> Less expenseive than having a 16x20 sheet of regular single-strength window 
> glass cut at the local window glass store.
> 
> Brad
> Prison pix: http://www.citysnaps.net/AlcaBook/Alcatraz
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Richard Smallfield 
> <r.smallfield@> wrote:
> >
> > Hello,
> > I wondered how many of us always frame pigment prints with conservation glass.
> > 
> > To keep prices down I use plain glass, but wonder if I should be using uv protective 
> glass to ensure longevity.
> > 
> > I had a poster up in a cafe advertising my portrait services and in a year it had gone 
> quite green - that was with Ultrachromes on Epson Matte Heavyweight. I don't know 
how 
> much protection plain glass gives - not much I would think.
> > 
> > thanks,
> > Richard
> > --
> > http://smallfield.vze.com
> > http://photos.smallfield.vze.com (Photos web site)
> > http://warkworth.vze.com/ (Warkworth photo essay)
> > 
> > 
> > "Logic: The art of thinking and reasoning in strict accordance with
> > the limitations and incapacities of the human misunderstanding."
> > --Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary"
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>



         


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dear Brad,

I may be alone with this issue, but the galleries I work with,
ask that my black and white carbon images be framed with
Tru Vue Museum glass, and they sell quite well...

Expensive yes, selling point yes, and they consider this to be
a minimum requirement for any images of this nature.

jim k



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Just out of curiosity, but if they consider Museum glass to be the minimum, what would be considered an upgrade.  Museum glass is the best that one can get, as far as I can tell.
   
  Tom Baker

jim kitchen <jim.kitchen@shaw.ca> wrote:
          Dear Brad,

I may be alone with this issue, but the galleries I work with,
ask that my black and white carbon images be framed with
Tru Vue Museum glass, and they sell quite well...

Expensive yes, selling point yes, and they consider this to be
a minimum requirement for any images of this nature.

jim k

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



         


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dear Tom,

No upgrade, just Museum glass, or it does not go into the gallery...

jim k


On 11/28/06 8:17 PM, "Tom Baker" <tbaker1328@...> wrote:

>  
>  
>  
> 
> Just out of curiosity, but if they consider Museum glass to be the minimum,
> what would be considered an upgrade.  Museum glass is the best that one can
> get, as far as I can tell.
>  
>  Tom Baker
> 
> jim kitchen <jim.kitchen@... <mailto:jim.kitchen%40shaw.ca> > wrote:
>  Dear Brad,
> 
> I may be alone with this issue, but the galleries I work with,
> ask that my black and white carbon images be framed with
> Tru Vue Museum glass, and they sell quite well...
> 
> Expensive yes, selling point yes, and they consider this to be
> a minimum requirement for any images of this nature.
> 
> jim k
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
>  
>     




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Different strokes, apparently. Galleries I know do the framing/glazing for shows and 
consignments, not the artist. With co-op galleries (where the aritst is one member) the 
artist do their own. And it appears the OP was selling prints on his own, not through a 
gallery which was what my first comment was based on.

But the point relating back to the original question, is Conservation Clear is inexpensive 
when you buy it by the box. Actually cheaper than a single cut sheet of common single-
strength window glass.  

Museum Glass' UV-blocking properties (which the thread morphed into) are no better than 
Conservation Clear. It's benefit is the sputtered-on AR coating that makes the glass look 
like it has dissapeared. But it costs 5X that of Conservation Clear.


Best - Brad
Prison pix: http://www.citysnaps.net/AlcaBook/Alcatraz



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Tom Baker <tbaker1328@...> 
wrote:
>
> Just out of curiosity, but if they consider Museum glass to be the minimum, what would 
be considered an upgrade.  Museum glass is the best that one can get, as far as I can tell.

>    
>   Tom Baker
> 
> jim kitchen <jim.kitchen@...> wrote:
>           Dear Brad,
> 
> I may be alone with this issue, but the galleries I work with,
> ask that my black and white carbon images be framed with
> Tru Vue Museum glass, and they sell quite well...
> 
> Expensive yes, selling point yes, and they consider this to be
> a minimum requirement for any images of this nature.
> 
> jim k
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> 
> 
>          
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "bradspix"
<b-evans@...> wrote:
> It's benefit is the sputtered-on AR coating that makes the glass look 
> like it has dissapeared. But it costs 5X that of Conservation Clear.
> 
> 
> Best - Brad
> Prison pix: http://www.citysnaps.net/AlcaBook/Alcatraz
> 
> 


Way off topic, is it really sputter coated or is it a sol-gel type of
application?

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Greg" <dfaprinting@...> wrote:
>
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "bradspix"
> <b-evans@> wrote:
> > It's benefit is the sputtered-on AR coating that makes the glass look 
> > like it has dissapeared. But it costs 5X that of Conservation Clear.
> > 
> > 
> > Best - Brad
> > Prison pix: http://www.citysnaps.net/AlcaBook/Alcatraz
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> Way off topic, is it really sputter coated or is it a sol-gel type of
> application?
>

Some info:

   http://www.viratec.com/downloads/museum_glass22.pdf

Best - Brad
Prison pix: http://www.citysnaps.net/AlcaBook/Alcatraz

Jim

I hope that for your sake the selling of your images is not dependent upon 
whether or not you use Tru Vue Museum glass. Any serious collector that I 
know, purchase the image not the packaging. If they had any concern about 
the framing, they will have the image re-framed under their control.

Gary



www.pbase.com/garyallenbrown

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "jim kitchen" <jim.kitchen@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 7:44 PM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: Conservation glass


Dear Brad,

I may be alone with this issue, but the galleries I work with,
ask that my black and white carbon images be framed with
Tru Vue Museum glass, and they sell quite well...

Expensive yes, selling point yes, and they consider this to be
a minimum requirement for any images of this nature.

jim k



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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Gary, There are certainly times when the frame is as you say, just
packaging. There are however, some that consider the framing an extension of
the piece and becomes a single unit. The quality of the glass may be just a
small part of that, but it may be an important part of that.  

 

Eric Neilsen Photography

4101 Commerce Street

Suite 9

Dallas, TX 75226

http://e.neilsen.home.att.net

http://ericneilsenphotography.com

Skype ejprinter

  _____  

From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Gary
Brown
Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 4:27 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: Conservation glass

 

Jim

I hope that for your sake the selling of your images is not dependent upon 
whether or not you use Tru Vue Museum glass. Any serious collector that I 
know, purchase the image not the packaging. If they had any concern about 
the framing, they will have the image re-framed under their control.

Gary

www.pbase.com/garyallenbrown

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "jim kitchen" <jim.kitchen@ <mailto:jim.kitchen%40shaw.ca> shaw.ca>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhit
<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>
eThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 7:44 PM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: Conservation glass

Dear Brad,

I may be alone with this issue, but the galleries I work with,
ask that my black and white carbon images be framed with
Tru Vue Museum glass, and they sell quite well...

Expensive yes, selling point yes, and they consider this to be
a minimum requirement for any images of this nature.

jim k

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as 
they are often being updated.

http://groups. <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint>
yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to 
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same 
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dear Gary,

The gallery, requesting the Museum Glass, is unfortunately,
very steadfast about this quality level of glass, when it
comes to selling fine art carbon ink prints.  My images are
prepared by this gallery for their clients and other collector¹s
of fine art. It is also a condition I must live with for the
moment, because this single component in the framing
process is conceived by the gallery, and their clients, to
be part of the gallery¹s archival process.

The reason behind their decision has many facets, which
are outside the scope of this original thread. The gallery¹s
perception of image protection is directly related to the
fact that my images are in the realm of a non traditional
photographic image. This perception of limited archival
qualities, regarding non traditional photographic images,
affects the education process passed on to patrons, which
drive my costs up for the finished product.

There is a growing movement, among gallery owners,
concerning archival properties of inkjet images, and it
seems that I am in the midst of one presently. Whether
this concern is propagated by the gallery, or by the
patron, is not certain. I also find that this concern is
very regional, very argumentative, and again, outside
the scope of this thread.

It is an incremental cost that I must carry, but as I
mentioned earlier, the images sell.  Galleries carry the
operating costs for many fine artists, and one avenue
of significant revenue, to recover this overhead, is
framing.

That said, this cost is now part of my image making
process, and I apologise for the length of this reply...

jim k




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Yeah, and when a client mounts it in an area without controlled lighting, or
the lighting is not turned on, it still looks damn fine!
The cost of this stuff is staggering, but the gallery clearly has set a
defining standard for their offerings.  Good for them and their artists, if
they can compete with the added cost.

Best regards,
John Moody

-----Original Message-----
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of jim
kitchen
Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 10:48 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: Conservation glass

Dear Gary,

The gallery, requesting the Museum Glass, is unfortunately,
very steadfast about this quality level of glass, when it
comes to selling fine art carbon ink prints. My images are
prepared by this gallery for their clients and other collector¹s
of fine art. It is also a condition I must live with for the
moment, because this single component in the framing
process is conceived by the gallery, and their clients, to
be part of the gallery¹s archival process.

The reason behind their decision has many facets, which
are outside the scope of this original thread. The gallery¹s
perception of image protection is directly related to the
fact that my images are in the realm of a non traditional
photographic image. This perception of limited archival
qualities, regarding non traditional photographic images,
affects the education process passed on to patrons, which
drive my costs up for the finished product.

There is a growing movement, among gallery owners,
concerning archival properties of inkjet images, and it
seems that I am in the midst of one presently. Whether
this concern is propagated by the gallery, or by the
patron, is not certain. I also find that this concern is
very regional, very argumentative, and again, outside
the scope of this thread.

It is an incremental cost that I must carry, but as I
mentioned earlier, the images sell. Galleries carry the
operating costs for many fine artists, and one avenue
of significant revenue, to recover this overhead, is
framing.

That said, this cost is now part of my image making
process, and I apologise for the length of this reply...

jim k



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Gary,

I would agree with Jim - why limit your market to "serious collectors" only?

Harkey

-----Original Message-----
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Eric
Neilsen
Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 8:48 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Re: Conservation glass

Gary, There are certainly times when the frame is as you say, just
packaging. There are however, some that consider the framing an extension of
the piece and becomes a single unit. The quality of the glass may be just a
small part of that, but it may be an important part of that.

Eric Neilsen Photography

4101 Commerce Street

Suite 9

Dallas, TX 75226

http://e.neilsen.home.att.net <http://e.neilsen.home.att.net>

http://ericneilsenphotography.com <http://ericneilsenphotography.com>

Skype ejprinter

_____

From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Gary
Brown
Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 4:27 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: Conservation glass

Jim

I hope that for your sake the selling of your images is not dependent upon
whether or not you use Tru Vue Museum glass. Any serious collector that I
know, purchase the image not the packaging. If they had any concern about
the framing, they will have the image re-framed under their control.

Gary

www.pbase.com/garyallenbrown

----- Original Message -----
From: "jim kitchen" <jim.kitchen@ <mailto:jim.kitchen%40shaw.ca> shaw.ca>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhit
<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>
eThePrint@yahoogroups.com <mailto:eThePrint%40yahoogroups.com> >
Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 7:44 PM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: Conservation glass

Dear Brad,

I may be alone with this issue, but the galleries I work with,
ask that my black and white carbon images be framed with
Tru Vue Museum glass, and they sell quite well...

Expensive yes, selling point yes, and they consider this to be
a minimum requirement for any images of this nature.

jim k

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
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GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE "OWNER" AND
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]