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Re: [Digital BW] K7 Split Tones

Re: [Digital BW] K7 Split Tones

2006-11-27 by CDTobie@aol.com

In a message dated 11/27/06 12:23:59 AM, scott@... writes:


> Makes more sense to me too, but the sepia shadows/neutral highlights 
> is very nice too.  Thier split is much more subtle.  Looks more like 
> the Carbon Sepia inks from the PiezoTone  line.
> 

To me this kind of decision is like choosing whether I'm going to eat 
chocolate ice cream indefinately, or vanilla. Of maybe, if I only get one, I should 
get Chocolate Swirl... The real answer is I want to determine the tint or 
crosstint on an image by image basis, not in advance, for an indefinate period. 
Unless you have a single, preferred tonality in advance, then installing a fixed 
tone inkset (ANY fixed tone inkset) is a very limiting choice!

C. David Tobie
Product Technology Manager
ColorVision Business Unit
Datacolor Inc.
CDTobie@...
www.colorvision.com



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

RE: [Digital BW] K7 Split Tones

2006-11-27 by Eric Neilsen

David, While it is nice to be able to shift the tones within a print based
on the image itself, it is sometimes much wiser to have a set tone of inks.
I think that it is a workflow issue. IF you are making them only for
yourself and you have a large enough  image pool, then variations will
probably be less of an issue than if you  are set up to make editions for
others. It has to do with communication, cost, and trust. It is much easier
to sell a look, if you have "a" look.  A range of split tones, is not what
many customers are looking for when they ask you to make a print. They want
the look they have seen. It is also a much easier task if the customer is
standing there with you which is rarely the case. 

 

I think you will also find that is why many of us have more than one
printer. 

 

Eric 

 

Eric Neilsen Photography

4101 Commerce Street

Suite 9

Dallas, TX 75226

http://e.neilsen.home.att.net

http://ericneilsenphotography.com

Skype ejprinter

  _____  
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From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
CDTobie@...
Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 9:00 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] K7 Split Tones

 


In a message dated 11/27/06 12:23:59 AM, scott@k2press.
<mailto:scott%40k2press.com> com writes:

> Makes more sense to me too, but the sepia shadows/neutral highlights 
> is very nice too.  Thier split is much more subtle.  Looks more like 
> the Carbon Sepia inks from the PiezoTone  line.
> 

To me this kind of decision is like choosing whether I'm going to eat 
chocolate ice cream indefinately, or vanilla. Of maybe, if I only get one, I
should 
get Chocolate Swirl... The real answer is I want to determine the tint or 
crosstint on an image by image basis, not in advance, for an indefinate
period. 
Unless you have a single, preferred tonality in advance, then installing a
fixed 
tone inkset (ANY fixed tone inkset) is a very limiting choice!

C. David Tobie
Product Technology Manager
ColorVision Business Unit
Datacolor Inc.
CDTobie@colorvision <mailto:CDTobie%40colorvision.com> .com
www.colorvision.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] K7 Split Tones

2006-11-27 by CDTobie@aol.com

In a message dated 11/27/06 10:44:30 AM, e.neilsen2@... writes:


> 
> I think you will also find that is why many of us have more than one
> printer.
> 
True; there are the tinkerers. Here in Maine we have people who own several 
vehicles, typically not of recent models, that they work on, and use for 
specific things. One to plow the driveway, one to carry loads, one that reliable for 
long trips, one that gets high gas mileage for puttering around. Personally I 
prefer to have one new, reliable vehicle thats large enough for reasonable 
cargo, small enough for good gas mileage, four wheel drive at all times, and 
reliable. Its what I get into when I walk out the door, no questions asked, no 
sunglasses in the wrong vehicle, etc...

Unless one has reason to be running multiple printers at the same time, or 
the luxury of having a backup printer for when disaster strikes, many users are 
in the same situation with needing one, universal printer. Having another 
printer thats a one trick pony for a different specific type of printing doesn't 
cover downtime anyways, so even for those who would own more than one printer, 
having them all be totally flexible in what they can print has a lot of merit. 
I can still show someone a specific look, and give it to them, whether that 
look is a concrete thing that is all a given printer can do, of a profile I 
choose from a list for that output. But that also allows   me to create that same 
look on another printer, if the first one is down, or busy, or print many 
other looks, in sequence, as desired, on that same printer. The customer doesn't 
even need to know any of this, they just pick the look they like, and thats 
what they get. The rest is a matter of how the backroom in configured.

C. David Tobie
Product Technology Manager
ColorVision Business Unit
Datacolor Inc.
CDTobie@...
www.colorvision.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

RE: [Digital BW] K7 Split Tones

2006-11-27 by Paul Roark

CDTobie wrote:

> ... The real answer is I want to determine the tint or 
> cross-tint on an image by image basis, not in advance, ...
> installing a fixed tone inkset (ANY fixed tone inkset) 
> is a very limiting choice!

I find it a bit amusing that the Piezo inksets are just starting to move in
the direction of tonal control -- six years after my "Variable Piezo"
approached allowed some of us on the Piezo list to do split tones at will.

I've come to see split tones as a useful profiling tool that is easy to
over-do.  When the tonal differences become obvious to the viewer, it starts
to look like a gimmick.  As such, I tend to limit the amount of the tonal
shifts to the point where the viewer really is not that aware of them.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Re: [Digital BW] K7 Split Tones

2006-11-27 by CDTobie@aol.com

In a message dated 11/27/06 11:21:36 AM, deanwork2003@... writes:


> And no one would have any need for your RGB Colorvision software,
> which is what you are on here selling. So sad for you indeed.
> 
Mostly I'm on here figuring out what the parameters of the various B&W 
printing methods are, and what can be done to improve the range and results of the 
tools I develop. Paul Roark uses this list in a somewhat similar manner for his 
ink development work, he's just a better diplomat than I am. <G>

ColorVision products would sell well enough without my involvement on this 
list (CV sales due to my involvement on this or other lists are pretty 
insignificant overall; if everyone on this list went out today and bought a CV product, 
ColorVision wouldn't notice the blip); but the products would not be as good 
as they are with this involvement... I have many sources for input and 
discussion of monitor calibration and color profiling topics; this is pretty much 
'it' for B&W.

C. David Tobie
Product Technology Manager
ColorVision Business Unit
Datacolor Inc.
CDTobie@...
www.colorvision.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] K7 Split Tones

2006-11-27 by CDTobie@aol.com

In a message dated 11/27/06 12:48:33 PM, deanwork2003@... writes:


> I know, and you definately know what you are doing within the realm
> that your researching and have moved color management into the hands
> of a lot more people than previously could have afforded it.
> 
Thats more of a longterm description of my last several years. At the moment 
I'm busy trying to do the same in the B&W field, and annoying list members 
here in the process...
> 
> I'm about to turn in my portfolio of PiezoTones so can order your
> whole package, and hopefully put down a deposit on the Z series HP if
> they'll take it.
> 
Hopefully thats a Z3100, not a Z2100, you are talking about...

>  Then I'll be using the hell out of Profile Maker Pro.
> 
Hmmm... not sure I understand that comment. Do you mean "out of the hell of 
using Profile Maker Pro?" Or are you talking about using the built-in software 
in the Z printer (which is not really PM Pro, in terms of features, function, 
or feel)? Or something else entirely?

C. David Tobie
Product Technology Manager
ColorVision Business Unit
Datacolor Inc.
CDTobie@...
www.colorvision.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] K7 Split Tones

2006-11-27 by Joost Horsten

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark" 
<paul.roark@...> wrote:
>
> 
> I've come to see split tones as a useful profiling tool that is easy 
to
> over-do.  When the tonal differences become obvious to the viewer, it 
starts
> to look like a gimmick.  As such, I tend to limit the amount of the 
tonal
> shifts to the point where the viewer really is not that aware of them.

I'm just in the very beginning of my "split-tone journey", but I second 
your point. Apart from the very subtle, indeed hardly noticable, 
effects I found most of my test results rather tacky. Some of the 
subtle ones were very powerful though, indeed adding some of 
this "magic 3-dimensionality" 

Joost

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