Digital BW, The Print

In a message dated 11/22/06 4:40:56 AM, j.h.j.h@... writes:

>  I'm currently setting up a set of QTR curves
> for the UT3D inkset, including some split tone curves, and I'd love
> to experiment in this direction. 
> 
Thats an interesting area. While I find the most direct way to work with 
tonality in B&W to be standard inksets, and PrintFIX PRO 2 profiles; it is also 
possible to profile the MIS UT3D inksets with PrintFIX PRO 2 right through the 
OEM driver, no RIP required. This works a bit differently than with full gamut 
inksets, but it offers full control of the UT3D gamut, with live preview of 
the adjustments in Photoshop, so that you can create any tint or cross-tint 
within the inkset's gamut visually, on screen, then print this same result with 
the UT3D inks and paper that the profile was created for. Lovely sepias, carbon 
tints, and cross-tints.

I should note that the UT3D neutral results, simply profiling them with PFP2, 
and printing a neutral or grayscale image to them, is a beautifully smooth 
tone just a hair to the carbon side of neutral, and, being a toned grayscale 
inkset, it has smoother microscopic results than with OEM inksets. Tyler will be 
interested to see the gray ink smoothness of these prints from printers 
starting below a hundred dollars; the R220 I'm testing on was $99 at Staples.

So any PrintFIX PRO owners who were wishing they could test the new B&W 
capabilities, but who lack a "two-gray" printer to test with: dig out that old 
R200, 220, 260, 300, 320, 340, 380, or RX500, 580, 600, 620, or 700; or any other 
printer the UT3Ds will run on (or buy a new one for under a hundred dollars) 
get a set of UT3Ds to match, and give it a try. I'll be interested to hear your 
results.

C. David Tobie
Product Technology Manager
ColorVision Business Unit
Datacolor Inc.
CDTobie@...
www.colorvision.com
> 

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CDTobie wrote:

> ... it is also possible to profile the MIS UT3D inksets with 
> PrintFIX PRO 2 right through the OEM driver ... 
> full control of the UT3D gamut, with live preview of 
> the adjustments in Photoshop, so that you can create any tint 
> or cross-tint within the inkset's gamut visually, on screen, 
> then print this same result with the UT3D inks and paper 
> that the profile was created for...

I downloaded the 2.0b5 beta and gave this a try on the 220.  It does,
indeed, seem to work.  I used the 225 target without the special B&W target.
It produced a good "neutral" print with tones that went from the paper white
to the black tone. The soft proofing seemed to work also.  

I haven't experimented with this very much, but it looks like, for example,
on Premier Art's rather cool Matte BW paper it's easy to get a cool tone
with a Lab b of -5, or a medium warm print with Lab b a bit over 3 in the
midtones just by adjusting the color balance of the RGB file.  Split tones
ought to be very easy.

Limiting factors appear to be the small gamut of the inkset and distortion
of the ramp if the color balance sliders are pushed too far.  The soft proof
give visual feedback as to when the ramp is getting distorted.

If one wants a neutral print, it appears a grayscale file can also be
printed with the profile.

While this approach does not seem to be able to reach the limits of the
inkset the way manual profiling can, it looks like anyone with the program
will be able to profile papers and achieve very useful tones and split tones
with ease.

Congratulations David.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Hi David,

Sounds very interesting. I'd be interested to give it try, but I just 
invested in an Eye-One. I assume the PFP software doesn't work with 
that. Right?

Joost

> I downloaded the 2.0b5 beta and gave this a try on the 220.  It 
does,
> indeed, seem to work.  I used the 225 target without the special 
B&W target.
> It produced a good "neutral" print with tones that went from the 
paper white
> to the black tone. 

I'm very happy to see this thread.  I have a recently purchased PFP 
that I've been using very happily to profile my R220 for MISPRO and 
my color papers and will have some time in a few weeks to do my B&W 
R220 for UT-3D, but I have a few questions concerning the UT-3D 
inkset that I have.  

I bought a goodly amount of the UT-3D a number of months ago when I 
believe there were still some issues with the QC of the inkset.  
Essentially I only pulled a couple of prints with the set and then 
had to set it aside until now.  The first was a generic test print 
with a very high tonal range pulled on Epson Enhanced Matte and then 
on Crane Silver rag using Paul's profiles and I was really taken with 
the range and the depth of the blacks.  The second print I pulled was 
a mostly midtone image using the pre-made profiles and I ran into the 
problem of a much cooler than nuetral print.

To make a long story short, do you think profiling with PFP, using 
the method mentioned above with 2.0 (which is still in Beta?) or the 
manual method will get me back to nuetral (and for a project where I 
need very warm prints) with the inkset I have or will I need to 
change some of the inks.  From following this forum I believe I have 
the inkset that went out right at the change of QC methods but proved 
to be problematic with the ready made profiles.  (I have 4oz bottles 
of the 5 inks other than Eboni and PK and I'd like to be able to use 
some or all of them if possible.) I'm perfectly willing to get new 
inks where necessary but I have some logistical problems and 
currently for me, weeks are the norm for orders rather than days and 
that situation will get even worse after December.

Thanks, Robert

In a message dated 11/25/06 11:00:26 PM, robert49brake@... writes:


> > I downloaded the 2.0b5 beta and gave this a try on the 220.  It
> does,
> > indeed, seem to work.  I used the 225 target without the special
> B&W target.
> > It produced a good "neutral" print with tones that went from the
> paper white
> > to the black tone.
> 
Yes. Thats all that should be necessary with the UT3D inks, the extended 
grays target is for color sets, not for graysets, which are automatically 
"extended"...
> 
> I'm very happy to see this thread.  I have a recently purchased PFP
> that I've been using very happily to profile my R220 for MISPRO and
> my color papers and will have some time in a few weeks to do my B&W
> R220 for UT-3D, but I have a few questions concerning the UT-3D
> inkset that I have. 
> 
> I bought a goodly amount of the UT-3D a number of months ago when I
> believe there were still some issues with the QC of the inkset. 
> 
There is a good chance that the PFP2 profiling process will cover any 
variation issues with the inks.


> Essentially I only pulled a couple of prints with the set and then
> had to set it aside until now.  The first was a generic test print
> with a very high tonal range pulled on Epson Enhanced Matte and then
> on Crane Silver rag using Paul's profiles and I was really taken with
> the range and the depth of the blacks.  The second print I pulled was
> a mostly midtone image using the pre-made profiles and I ran into the
> problem of a much cooler than nuetral print.
> 
> Thats exactly the type of thing PrintFIX PRO is good at controlling... if the 
variation was in some other factor it could be problematic. But what is 
challenging in manufacturing such insets is the tonality, and what PFP is best at 
controling is that same factor, so there there is a good relationship between 
the two; it allows the ink company to produce inks with less difficultes, and 
allows the end users to get the precision and control they desire.

> To make a long story short, do you think profiling with PFP, using
> the method mentioned above with 2.0 (which is still ,in Beta?) or the
> manual method will get me back to nuetral (and for a project where I
> need very warm prints) with the inkset I have or will I need to
> change some of the inks.
> 
Should be able to tint the images warm in Photoshop, and print through that 
same neutral PFP2 profile to get what you want for tints. Use the PFP profile 
in Custom Proof Setup so that you can tint visually, and see what tints are in 
the gamut of this inkset, and what tints are not. General tints in Photoshop, 
done without the softproof function on, don't work for such inksets.

You may have to reprofile once you use these inks up and purchase new 
supplies, if there is significant variation. But thats only a ten minute process.

C. David Tobie
Product Technology Manager
ColorVision Business Division
DataColor Inc.
CDTobie@...
www.colorvision.com


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In a message dated 11/24/06 1:43:16 AM, paul.roark@... writes:


> > ... it is also possible to profile the MIS UT3D inksets with
> > PrintFIX PRO 2 right through the OEM driver ...
> > full control of the UT3D gamut, with live preview of
> > the adjustments in Photoshop, so that you can create any tint
> > or cross-tint within the inkset's gamut visually, on screen,
> > then print this same result with the UT3D inks and paper
> > that the profile was created for...
> 
> I downloaded the 2.0b5 beta and gave this a try on the 220.  It does,
> indeed, seem to work.  I used the 225 target without the special B&W target.
> It produced a good "neutral" print with tones that went from the paper white
> to the black tone. 
> 
Yes, thats an appropriate target choice for this use; and it should result in 
a good paper white to ink black ramp as the base profile...


> The soft proofing seemed to work also. 
> 
Yes, I've seen problems with softproofing gray inksets before, since the 
softproofing tools expectations are very different from the inksets results, but 
here is seems to be close enough to printed results to show you the tints you 
are defining, and to show you where gamut limits are reached; if you try to 
tweak towards colors that the inkset does not contain, the softproof stops 
changing, or stops changing in the section of the ramp where you've run out of 
gamut, which is just as it shoud be...
> 
> I haven't experimented with this very much, but it looks like, for example,
> on Premier Art's rather cool Matte BW paper it's easy to get a cool tone
> with a Lab b of -5, or a medium warm print with Lab b a bit over 3 in the
> midtones just by adjusting the color balance of the RGB file.  Split tones
> ought to be very easy.
> 
Yes, as long as the ink/paper gamut contains all the tones in the ramp, you 
can cross to your heart's content, and see just about what you'll get right in 
the Photoshop softproof.
> 
> Limiting factors appear to be the small gamut of the inkset and distortion
> of the ramp if the color balance sliders are pushed too far.
> 
Precisely; the color sliders in PFP that can be used to define tints in color 
inksets are not the right way to do this with gray inksets, they would have 
to be pused too far before the effect was achieved, and pushing them too far 
can cause undesired effects, so my recommended way to tint UT3D prints is via 
Photoshop adjustments with the PS softproof on. You can save your adjustments in 
Photoshop and apply to other images.


>   The soft proof
> give visual feedback as to when the ramp is getting distorted.
> 
Yes, the softproof pretty well indicates when you are reaching "out of 
bounds" conditions for the inks gamut.
> 
> If one wants a neutral print, it appears a grayscale file can also be
> printed with the profile.
> 
Identical results from a grayscale file or a neutral RGB file.
> 
> While this approach does not seem to be able to reach the limits of the
> inkset the way manual profiling can, it looks like anyone with the program
> will be able to profile papers and achieve very useful tones and split tones
> with ease.
> 
It might well be able to nudge out into the corners of the UT3D inkset's 
rather unusual gamut if you use just the right Photoshop tools to get there, but 
frankly I don't have much use for distinctly blue, or distinctly red prints 
anyways. I'm most interested in flexible ramping in the carbon to cool range, and 
thats exactly where these inks are most comfortable: good neutrals, a range 
of carbon to sepia tones, plus slight cools.
> 
> Congratulations David.
> 
> Thanks, Paul. We both know this capability has been a long time in the works; 
its too bad it has to finally appear quite so late in the PrintFIX PRO 2.0 
development cycle. But B&W printing fans will be very pleased to see that the 
range of options for previewable, ICC-based B&W printing options is growing as 
we go along. I would expect to see them become even more flexible and 
broadbased as we move forward.

C. David Tobie
Product Technology Manager
ColorVision Business Division
DataColor Inc.
CDTobie@...
www.colorvision.com



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