Digital BW, The Print

Hello,
I have an Epson R220 and cut down some semi-matte to try with it.  I 
really like the paper's surface but I'm having trouble finding settings 
that work with it and MIS B&W inks.  Printing without an ICC gives me a 
greyscale ramp that doesn't get nearly dense enough in the dark areas.  

I would appreciate any advice as to which paper type and other settings 
to select in the driver.  Does anyone have an ICC for this paper they 
could share or experience with whether this paper can yield good 
results in this printer?

After trying many different settings, the best results I've gotten so 
far (still not that good) are using Paul Roark's ICC for Epson Premium 
Glossy, setting paper to PGPP but setting gamma in the driver go 2.2 
instead of 1.8.

I have not tried Premium Semimatte with the R220.  However, I'm starting to
recommend the use of ICCs in printing, for example with respect to the R220
and UT-R2 inkset. (See http://home1.gte.net/res09aij/R220_R2_Readme.htm )
With that approach, one can quite easily make custom ICCs for new papers. 

Roy's "Create ICC" should allow users to have perfect grayscale ramps with
very little expense.
(See http://www.quadtonerip.com/html/QTRiccprofile.html )

Even if you have only a flatbed scanner, you can make custom ICCs.  
(See http://home1.gte.net/res09aij/Making_B-W_ICCs.htm )

Hope this helps.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Roger
> Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 7:42 AM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Digital BW] Epson Semi-Matte and R220 help
> 
> Hello,
> I have an Epson R220 and cut down some semi-matte to try with it.  I
> really like the paper's surface but I'm having trouble finding settings
> that work with it and MIS B&W inks.  Printing without an ICC gives me a
> greyscale ramp that doesn't get nearly dense enough in the dark areas.
> 
> I would appreciate any advice as to which paper type and other settings
> to select in the driver.  Does anyone have an ICC for this paper they
> could share or experience with whether this paper can yield good
> results in this printer?
> 
> After trying many different settings, the best results I've gotten so
> far (still not that good) are using Paul Roark's ICC for Epson Premium
> Glossy, setting paper to PGPP but setting gamma in the driver go 2.2
> instead of 1.8.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
> they are often being updated.
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
> page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
> them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
> Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
> membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
> printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from
> the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner
> and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files
> section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> 
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
> YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND
> "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO
> YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR
> EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF
> PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE
> "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN
> ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE
> OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii)
> UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii)
> STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
> YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE
> PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
> 
>

Thanks Paul,
I'm with you on the ICCs.  I don't have a flatbed scanner (only 
dedicated film) and would have to send it out to be profiled.  If I 
did want to get this paper profiled, do you have any idea what 
settings to use?  
My guess:
Print w/preview "same as source"
Then in Epson, the default settings you recommend with paper type as 
Premium Semi-Glossy, gamma 1.8?

If I wanted to profile black only on Innova HW Cotton, what settings 
would you recommend?  
Paper type UPGPP, gamma 2.2, black only, sliders to 0?

Best,
Roger

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark" 
<paul.roark@...> wrote:
>
> I have not tried Premium Semimatte with the R220.  However, I'm 
starting to
> recommend the use of ICCs in printing, for example with respect to 
the R220
> and UT-R2 inkset. (See 
http://home1.gte.net/res09aij/R220_R2_Readme.htm )
> With that approach, one can quite easily make custom ICCs for new 
papers. 
> 
> Roy's "Create ICC" should allow users to have perfect grayscale 
ramps with
> very little expense.
> (See http://www.quadtonerip.com/html/QTRiccprofile.html )
> 
> Even if you have only a flatbed scanner, you can make custom 
ICCs.  
> (See http://home1.gte.net/res09aij/Making_B-W_ICCs.htm )
> 
> Hope this helps.
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> > [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf 
Of Roger
> > Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 7:42 AM
> > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [Digital BW] Epson Semi-Matte and R220 help
> > 
> > Hello,
> > I have an Epson R220 and cut down some semi-matte to try with 
it.  I
> > really like the paper's surface but I'm having trouble finding 
settings
> > that work with it and MIS B&W inks.  Printing without an ICC 
gives me a
> > greyscale ramp that doesn't get nearly dense enough in the dark 
areas.
> > 
> > I would appreciate any advice as to which paper type and other 
settings
> > to select in the driver.  Does anyone have an ICC for this paper 
they
> > could share or experience with whether this paper can yield good
> > results in this printer?
> > 
> > After trying many different settings, the best results I've 
gotten so
> > far (still not that good) are using Paul Roark's ICC for Epson 
Premium
> > Glossy, setting paper to PGPP but setting gamma in the driver go 
2.2
> > instead of 1.8.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other 
resources as
> > they are often being updated.
> > 
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> > 
> > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you 
wish to
> > unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting 
this same
> > page.
> > 
> > Please follow these basic guidelines:
> > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier 
messages to keep
> > them short.
> > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or 
flames.
> > Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from 
the
> > membership without notice.
> > - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of 
digital B&W
> > printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be 
removed from
> > the membership.
> > - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules 
and
> > guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the 
group Owner
> > and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the 
Files
> > section:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> > 
> > BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, 
THE PRINT
> > YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" 
AND
> > "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE 
LIABLE TO
> > YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL 
OR
> > EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR 
LOSS OF
> > PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF 
THE
> > "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP 
HAVE BEEN
> > ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) 
THE USE
> > OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; 
(ii)
> > UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR 
DATA; (iii)
> > STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE 
PRINT
> > YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL 
BW, THE

> > PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> > 
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >
>

Roger,

I agree ICCs are the way to go, I'm getting better results with them than without them, but 
I'm also getting reasonably good results with this paper (similar situation to yours I 
expect, cut down to letter size for use with an R220 and MIS inks) using no ICC and 'Print 
with Preview' in Photoshop CS2.

I set the paper type to Premium Semigloss (which seems the closest in look of the other 
Epson papers to this paper), gamma at 2.2 (I use Gray Gamma 2.2 as my working space in 
Photoshop) and brightness -1, contrast +1.  Depending on the image, I'll take the 
maximum white value down to something like 248 or 245 using levels in PS just prior to 
printing to minimize gloss differential vs. paper white.

Images with large areas of black seem to print well and the blacks look good (I'd say PSG 
printed using Paul's ICC probably gets a better dmax, but I've no way to verify this).  I like 
the surface quality of this paper very much, just enough sheen to make the blacks look 
"lickable" (for lack of a better word), but not enough to distract overly with sparkles and 
reflections (which I find the case with, e.g., Premium Luster).  Reminds me of the look of 
well-done photo books from Phaidon, such as Magnum Degrees or Elliot Erwitt's Snaps.


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@..., "Roger" <rsmith02@...> wrote:

>
> Thanks Paul,
> I'm with you on the ICCs.  I don't have a flatbed scanner (only 
> dedicated film) and would have to send it out to be profiled.  If I 
> did want to get this paper profiled, do you have any idea what 
> settings to use?  
> My guess:
> Print w/preview "same as source"
> Then in Epson, the default settings you recommend with paper type as 
> Premium Semi-Glossy, gamma 1.8?
> 
> If I wanted to profile black only on Innova HW Cotton, what settings 
> would you recommend?  
> Paper type UPGPP, gamma 2.2, black only, sliders to 0?
> 
> Best,
> Roger
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark" 
> <paul.roark@> wrote:
> >
> > I have not tried Premium Semimatte with the R220.  However, I'm 
> starting to
> > recommend the use of ICCs in printing, for example with respect to 
> the R220
> > and UT-R2 inkset. (See 
> http://home1.gte.net/res09aij/R220_R2_Readme.htm )
> > With that approach, one can quite easily make custom ICCs for new 
> papers. 
> > 
> > Roy's "Create ICC" should allow users to have perfect grayscale 
> ramps with
> > very little expense.
> > (See http://www.quadtonerip.com/html/QTRiccprofile.html )
> > 
> > Even if you have only a flatbed scanner, you can make custom 
> ICCs.  
> > (See http://home1.gte.net/res09aij/Making_B-W_ICCs.htm )
> > 
> > Hope this helps.
> > 
> > Paul
> > www.PaulRoark.com 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> > > [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf 
> Of Roger
> > > Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 7:42 AM
> > > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: [Digital BW] Epson Semi-Matte and R220 help
> > > 
> > > Hello,
> > > I have an Epson R220 and cut down some semi-matte to try with 
> it.  I
> > > really like the paper's surface but I'm having trouble finding 
> settings
> > > that work with it and MIS B&W inks.  Printing without an ICC 
> gives me a
> > > greyscale ramp that doesn't get nearly dense enough in the dark 
> areas.
> > > 
> > > I would appreciate any advice as to which paper type and other 
> settings
> > > to select in the driver.  Does anyone have an ICC for this paper 
> they
> > > could share or experience with whether this paper can yield good
> > > results in this printer?
> > > 
> > > After trying many different settings, the best results I've 
> gotten so
> > > far (still not that good) are using Paul Roark's ICC for Epson 
> Premium
> > > Glossy, setting paper to PGPP but setting gamma in the driver go 
> 2.2
> > > instead of 1.8.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other 
> resources as
> > > they are often being updated.
> > > 
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> > > 
> > > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you 
> wish to
> > > unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting 
> this same
> > > page.
> > > 
> > > Please follow these basic guidelines:
> > > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier 
> messages to keep
> > > them short.
> > > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or 
> flames.
> > > Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from 
> the
> > > membership without notice.
> > > - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of 
> digital B&W
> > > printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be 
> removed from
> > > the membership.
> > > - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules 
> and
> > > guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the 
> group Owner
> > > and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the 
> Files
> > > section:
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> > > 
> > > BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, 
> THE PRINT
> > > YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" 
> AND
> > > "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE 
> LIABLE TO
> > > YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL 
> OR
> > > EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR 
> LOSS OF
> > > PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF 
> THE
> > > "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP 
> HAVE BEEN
> > > ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) 
> THE USE
> > > OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; 
> (ii)
> > > UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR 
> DATA; (iii)
> > > STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE 
> PRINT
> > > YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL 
> BW, THE
> > > PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> > > 
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > >
> >
>

Thanks for the reply.  I too like the surface a lot, but am having 
some problems.  The blacks simply lack density (I printed out 
greyscale ramps at different settings) and with the method you 
describe get fairly close except that the blacks also seem to suffer 
from banding.  I don't know if it's because this paper is cut down 
from a roll into 4x6 sheets and the paper is curved, but it really 
looks bad compared to the Epson Premium Glossy paper.  Realigning 
the paper doesn't seem to help.

I'm using SRGB or Adobe RGB, which are gamma 2.2 spaces I believe.

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "vmixer42" 
<geoffsm@...> wrote:
>
> Roger,
> 
> I agree ICCs are the way to go, I'm getting better results with 
them than without them, but 
> I'm also getting reasonably good results with this paper (similar 
situation to yours I expect, cut down to letter size for use with an 
R220 and MIS inks) using no ICC and 'Print 
> with Preview' in Photoshop CS2.
> 
> I set the paper type to Premium Semigloss (which seems the closest 
in look of the other Epson papers to this paper), gamma at 2.2 (I 
use Gray Gamma 2.2 as my working space in 
> Photoshop) and brightness -1, contrast +1.  Depending on the 
image, I'll take the 
> maximum white value down to something like 248 or 245 using levels 
in PS just prior to 
> printing to minimize gloss differential vs. paper white.
> 
> Images with large areas of black seem to print well and the blacks 
look good (I'd say PSG 
> printed using Paul's ICC probably gets a better dmax, but I've no 
way to verify this).  I like 
> the surface quality of this paper very much, just enough sheen to 
make the blacks look 
> "lickable" (for lack of a better word), but not enough to distract 
overly with sparkles and 
> reflections (which I find the case with, e.g., Premium Luster).  
Reminds me of the look of 
> well-done photo books from Phaidon, such as Magnum Degrees or 
Elliot Erwitt's Snaps.
>