Digital BW, The Print

Hello,
I am planning on buying a new PC to use with PS CS2 and an Epson 
R2400  and was looking for recommendations on Processor and memory. I 
want to get something that is fast enough but will not break the bank. 
Dell has Pentium 4 and Pentium D and Xeon. Does anyone have experience 
with these and what speed of processor is necessary? 
Thanks,
Gary W

garyphoto6 wrote:

>Hello,
>I am planning on buying a new PC to use with PS CS2 and an Epson 
>R2400  and was looking for recommendations on Processor and memory. I 
>want to get something that is fast enough but will not break the bank. 
>Dell has Pentium 4 and Pentium D and Xeon. Does anyone have experience 
>with these and what speed of processor is necessary? 
>Thanks,
>Gary W
>
>  
>
Gary;
My suggestions:
Stay away from Dell, and other large PC computer manufacturers. Instead, 
have your computer made locally. Get some references/recommendations and 
when you decide on a shop, explain to the people there what you want to 
do with the computer and of course, how much you can afford. This way 
you can (with their help) pick each part of your system.
Sure, this'll take a little more effort than putting in an order for an 
assembly line Dell, but you'll always have a place to take it if a 
problem crops up, and turn around time will be much shorter--and you'll 
have a better computer.

You might start with a fast AMD processor. In compariable price ranges, 
they are quicker than Intel, especially in Photoshop. They also run 
cooler. Of course you'll invariably hear "get a Mac." That's fine--nice 
computers. But, if you go with PCs, I'd stay away from the mass-produced.

All the best;
-Patrick Carr

Carr Imaging
patcarr@...
patrickcarrimaging.com

Patrick Carr wrote:

> garyphoto6 wrote:
>
> >Hello,
> >I am planning on buying a new PC to use with PS CS2 and an Epson
> >R2400  and was looking for recommendations on Processor and memory. I
> >want to get something that is fast enough but will not break the bank.
> >Dell has Pentium 4 and Pentium D and Xeon. Does anyone have experience
> >with these and what speed of processor is necessary?
> >Thanks,
> >Gary W
> >
> > 
> >
> Gary;
> My suggestions:
> Stay away from Dell, and other large PC computer manufacturers. Instead,
> have your computer made locally. Get some references/recommendations and
> when you decide on a shop, explain to the people there what you want to
> do with the computer and of course, how much you can afford. This way
> you can (with their help) pick each part of your system.
> Sure, this'll take a little more effort than putting in an order for an
> assembly line Dell, but you'll always have a place to take it if a
> problem crops up, and turn around time will be much shorter--and you'll
> have a better computer.
>
> You might start with a fast AMD processor. In compariable price ranges,
> they are quicker than Intel, especially in Photoshop. They also run
> cooler. Of course you'll invariably hear "get a Mac." That's fine--nice
> computers. But, if you go with PCs, I'd stay away from the mass-produced.
>
> All the best;
> -Patrick Carr
>
> Carr Imaging
> patcarr@...
> patrickcarrimaging.com
>
I'd suggest the opposite. I uded to build my own systems. It used to be 
cheaper, and you used to get better machines.

The small stores no longer provide better service or value. My current 
system is a Compaq, and if it gets replaced, it will be by another 
name-brand system from Dell, or HP/Compaq. Between the good warranty and 
lack of hassle, the big names are worth it. And these days, you save 
money going that way if you pay attention to the sales (especially 
Dell's often ridiculously low priced 1 day sales).

-Adam

Hi Gary,
 
The processor is only part of the equation. For image work the amount of
dram becomes important. If you have to dump part of the job to the hard disk
(virtual memory) it will slow things down significantly. A second disk drive
will speed photoshop up if it needs to use virtual memory and would be a
pretty cheap option or addition. 
 
Not to get into a Ford-Chevy argument, AMD is probably ahead in processor
design at this point and you can't get a machine with an AMD processor from
Dell. The Xeon processor is $$expensive$$ and really intended for servers.
With a 32 bit operating system such as XP it isn't going to make much
difference. If you can swing it I would go for a dual core processor such as
the Pentium D or AMD 64X2. A custom made machine should have a better mother
board and power supply but the other components are the same off the shelf
items any builder would use. For two dimensional work the video system
doesn't need to be a gamer's delight.
 
I have a machine I custom built with high end components and my wife has an
HP with a Pentium. For 90% + of what we use the machines for one can't tell
them apart so far as functionality is concerned. For serious image
processing and printing I use an old dual processor G4 MAC just because that
would run QTR when it wasn't available for the PC and I have been too lazy
to switch to the much faster AMD 64X2 box (plus I dearly love that old Mac
and the OS X operating system).
 
A Dell or HP would make a good solid box with support from a known entity
and a year's guarantee. 
 
My 2 cents worth.
 
Roger
 
 

  _____  

From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
garyphoto6
Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2006 2:44 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] New PC recommendations


Hello,
I am planning on buying a new PC to use with PS CS2 and an Epson 
R2400  and was looking for recommendations on Processor and memory. I 
want to get something that is fast enough but will not break the bank. 
Dell has Pentium 4 and Pentium D and Xeon. Does anyone have experience 
with these and what speed of processor is necessary? 
Thanks,
Gary W





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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Whatever you do, stay away from Gateway.
Bob

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Adam Maas" <mykroft@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2006 5:36 PM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] New PC recommendations


Patrick Carr wrote:

> garyphoto6 wrote:
>
> >Hello,
> >I am planning on buying a new PC to use with PS CS2 and an Epson
> >R2400  and was looking for recommendations on Processor and memory. I
> >want to get something that is fast enough but will not break the bank.
> >Dell has Pentium 4 and Pentium D and Xeon. Does anyone have experience
> >with these and what speed of processor is necessary?
> >Thanks,
> >Gary W
> >
> >
> >
> Gary;
> My suggestions:
> Stay away from Dell, and other large PC computer manufacturers. Instead,
> have your computer made locally. Get some references/recommendations and
> when you decide on a shop, explain to the people there what you want to
> do with the computer and of course, how much you can afford. This way
> you can (with their help) pick each part of your system.
> Sure, this'll take a little more effort than putting in an order for an
> assembly line Dell, but you'll always have a place to take it if a
> problem crops up, and turn around time will be much shorter--and you'll
> have a better computer.
>
> You might start with a fast AMD processor. In compariable price ranges,
> they are quicker than Intel, especially in Photoshop. They also run
> cooler. Of course you'll invariably hear "get a Mac." That's fine--nice
> computers. But, if you go with PCs, I'd stay away from the mass-produced.
>
> All the best;
> -Patrick Carr
>
> Carr Imaging
> patcarr@...
> patrickcarrimaging.com
>
I'd suggest the opposite. I uded to build my own systems. It used to be
cheaper, and you used to get better machines.

The small stores no longer provide better service or value. My current
system is a Compaq, and if it gets replaced, it will be by another
name-brand system from Dell, or HP/Compaq. Between the good warranty and
lack of hassle, the big names are worth it. And these days, you save
money going that way if you pay attention to the sales (especially
Dell's often ridiculously low priced 1 day sales).

-Adam


Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as 
they are often being updated.

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If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to 
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same 
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Please follow these basic guidelines:
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them short.
- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. 
Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the 
membership without notice.
- Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W 
printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from 
the membership.
- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and 
guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and 
Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files section:
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BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT 
YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND 
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FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY 
DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, 
GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  "OWNER" AND 
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Yahoo! Groups Links

Gary-

I've just replaced my second locally-built computer with a Dell 670 
work station.  This is a 4 gig memory, SCSI RAID 1 system with two 300 
gig drives and two of the XEON 3.0 gig processors.  It is a delight to 
work with and cuts over an hour off a typical workday (compared to my 
last dual-XEON 1.0 gig computer).  The computer was delivered in 
perfect condition with no installed software other than the operating 
system and has a three-year on-site, next-day service contract 
included.  I can't recommend it highly enough, particularly if 
reliability and low maintenance is high on your list.  I'm sure there 
are faster processsors, etc. but there are faster cars than the one I 
drive too.  

Walt

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "garyphoto6" 
<gcwagner@...> wrote:
>
> Hello,
> I am planning on buying a new PC to use with PS CS2 and an Epson 
> R2400  and was looking for recommendations on Processor and memory. I 
> want to get something that is fast enough but will not break the 
bank. 
> Dell has Pentium 4 and Pentium D and Xeon. Does anyone have 
experience 

> with these and what speed of processor is necessary? 
> Thanks,
> Gary W
>

FWIW, I got a Dell last fall--my first big box machine, not from a 
local supplier. I'm reasonably happy with the machine, and there is 
some innovative design. HOWEVER, this is the second time Dell 
has flaked on a rebate, and their customer support on that has been 
poor. (I have had excellent luck with rebates from CompUSA and 
others). 

Twice burned...forever shy. I don't expect I'll be patronizing Mr. 
Dell's company in the future.

-matt
--
Matt Haber
dance, portrait and fashion photography
http://www.matthaber.com

Is this forum the tight place to be discussing what PC to buy?  I don't
think so.

> From: Matt Haber <matt@...>
> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 17:35:37 -0800
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [Digital BW] Re: New PC recommendations
> 
> FWIW, I got a Dell last fall--my first big box machine, not from a
> local supplier. I'm reasonably happy with the machine, and there is
> some innovative design. HOWEVER, this is the second time Dell
> has flaked on a rebate, and their customer support on that has been
> poor. (I have had excellent luck with rebates from CompUSA and
> others). 
> 
> Twice burned...forever shy. I don't expect I'll be patronizing Mr.
> Dell's company in the future.
> 
> -matt
> --
> Matt Haber
> dance, portrait and fashion photography
> http://www.matthaber.com

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Carr <patcarr@...> wrote:
>
> garyphoto6 wrote:
> 
Hello Gary,

Patrick wrote "...get a Mac". That would be sound advice. The Windows operating system is 
notorious for crashing. It is also way behind the curve when it comes to innovation. Apple 
computer may be a small company but they still produce the most advanced, and stable 
machine on the market. But don't just take my word for it, visit the Apple web site or even 
better, go to an Apple retail store investigate the product.

Steve

> >Hello,
> >I am planning on buying a new PC to use with PS CS2 and an Epson 
> >R2400  and was looking for recommendations on Processor and memory. I 
> >want to get something that is fast enough but will not break the bank. 
> >Dell has Pentium 4 and Pentium D and Xeon. Does anyone have experience 
> >with these and what speed of processor is necessary? 
> >Thanks,
> >Gary W
> >
> >  
> >
> Gary;
> My suggestions:
> Stay away from Dell, and other large PC computer manufacturers. Instead, 
> have your computer made locally. Get some references/recommendations and 
> when you decide on a shop, explain to the people there what you want to 
> do with the computer and of course, how much you can afford. This way 
> you can (with their help) pick each part of your system.
> Sure, this'll take a little more effort than putting in an order for an 
> assembly line Dell, but you'll always have a place to take it if a 
> problem crops up, and turn around time will be much shorter--and you'll 
> have a better computer.
> 
> You might start with a fast AMD processor. In compariable price ranges, 
> they are quicker than Intel, especially in Photoshop. They also run 
> cooler. Of course you'll invariably hear "get a Mac." That's fine--nice 
> computers. But, if you go with PCs, I'd stay away from the mass-produced.
> 
> All the best;
> -Patrick Carr
> 
> Carr Imaging
> patcarr@...
> patrickcarrimaging.com
>

Hello,
Thanks to everyone on suggestions for a new PC for digital printing. Several
of you suggested "..get a Mac." I have always heard great reviews from Mac
users but have never owned one myself other than my first computer which was
an Apple IIC in the mid 80s. Since that time I have always used PCs for home
and business and probably like most of you have had at least a half dozen
computers through the years always making the upgrade to something better an
faster. Again I am looking to make an upgrade because my newer, lower end PC
will not keep up with images in CS2 and as I seriously make my transition to
digital imaging from my wet darkroom I again need something faster and
better. It all seems to be a never ending story! My traditional darkroom
worked without much upgrading for 30 years but computer imaging seems to be
constantly need upgrading. All that being said my guess will be in 20 years
the transition will be over, digital will be the norm for 99.9% of all photo
and technology will have stabilized. Not sure if I will still be doing photo
then but these are really exciting times in the history of photo and I don't
want to miss out on the fun and action of this new generation of
photography.
Best Wishes,
Gary W.
  >
  Hello Gary,

  Patrick wrote "...get a Mac". That would be sound advice. The Windows
operating system is


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> From: garyphoto6
>
> I am planning on buying a new PC to use with PS CS2 and an Epson
> R2400  and was looking for recommendations on Processor and memory. I
> want to get something that is fast enough but will not break the bank.
> Dell has Pentium 4 and Pentium D and Xeon. Does anyone have experience
> with these and what speed of processor is necessary?

If you have to pick one area to spend money on, spend it on RAM. That'll
have a bigger effect on apparent speed than buying a fancier processor with
a bigger cache. Consider 2GB a minimum.

--

Ciao,               Paul D. DeRocco
Paul                mailto:pderocco@...

IMO 1G is manditory with CS2, and 2G is the sweet spot.

IMO Mac will commit to a Win OS by 2007, to go with the Intel
processor...fully Wintel... going Mac won't necessarily mean anything
more than going for a cute Chinese package. Win XP is super-stable.

IMO Sony's a superb choice for manufacturer because of incredibly good
service. They go beyond the call of duty.

I've had TERRIBLE experience with local PC builders with several
machines (I've had as many as 7 PCs in my small biz, and the best was
Sony): *if local builder "technicians" were fully competent* ,
actually employable at real companies, they wouldn't be working for
neighborhood retailers that don't provide benefits. 

Dell's OK, judging by reports from friends. 

My next will be a laptop from Lenovo (formerly IBM).



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "gcwagner"
<gcwagner@...> wrote:
>
> Hello,
> Thanks to everyone on suggestions for a new PC for digital printing.
Several
> of you suggested "..get a Mac." I have always heard great reviews
from Mac
> users but have never owned one myself other than my first computer
which was
> an Apple IIC in the mid 80s. Since that time I have always used PCs
for home
> and business and probably like most of you have had at least a half
dozen
> computers through the years always making the upgrade to something
better an
> faster. Again I am looking to make an upgrade because my newer,
lower end PC
> will not keep up with images in CS2 and as I seriously make my
transition to
> digital imaging from my wet darkroom I again need something faster and
> better. It all seems to be a never ending story! My traditional darkroom
> worked without much upgrading for 30 years but computer imaging
seems to be
> constantly need upgrading. All that being said my guess will be in
20 years
> the transition will be over, digital will be the norm for 99.9% of
all photo
> and technology will have stabilized. Not sure if I will still be
doing photo
> then but these are really exciting times in the history of photo and
I don't

> want to miss out on the fun and action of this new generation of
> photography.
> Best Wishes,
> Gary W.
>   >
>   Hello Gary,
> 
>   Patrick wrote "...get a Mac". That would be sound advice. The Windows
> operating system is
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Steve's right. 

I shouldn't have posted...this is classically OFF TOPIC. 


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Steve Kale
<stevekale@...> wrote:

>
> Is this forum the tight place to be discussing what PC to buy?  I don't
> think so.
> 
>

djon43 wrote:

> IMO 1G is manditory with CS2, and 2G is the sweet spot.
>
> IMO Mac will commit to a Win OS by 2007, to go with the Intel
> processor...fully Wintel... going Mac won't necessarily mean anything
> more than going for a cute Chinese package. Win XP is super-stable.


XP's reasonably stable, but not as stable as OS X. And while Intel Macs 
should be able to boot Windows when Vista launches (As Vista is the 
first version of Windows to support EFI firmware natively, and that's 
what Intel Macs use instead of a BIOS) Apple will remain wedded to OS X, 
simply because Apple's entire selling point is how well integrated their 
OS and hardware is, they lose that with Windows, becoming yet another PC 
vendor, which is simply not economically viable for Apple. Expect a 
Windows app compatibility layer in OS X around 2007 though.

>
> IMO Sony's a superb choice for manufacturer because of incredibly good
> service. They go beyond the call of duty.

However their systems are unimpressive and tend to use lower-spec 
hardware than the equivalent Dell or HP. The one advantage they have is 
pretty cases. They're trying to be the Windows version of Apple. Oh, and 
Sony has a nasty habit of including major security threats pre-installed 
on their systems among the rest of the poorly behaving software suite 
they typically include.

>
> I've had TERRIBLE experience with local PC builders with several
> machines (I've had as many as 7 PCs in my small biz, and the best was
> Sony): *if local builder "technicians" were fully competent* ,
> actually employable at real companies, they wouldn't be working for
> neighborhood retailers that don't provide benefits.

Agreed. Most of these techs are either high-school students or 
incompetents. The good ones are the owners (If you're lucky enough that 
the owner is the tech).

>
>
> Dell's OK, judging by reports from friends.

Good systems, Great pricing. Expensive to fix out of warranty. HP/Compaq 
is better as they use standard form-factor hardware in all their 
systems, Dells better systems use custom form-factor hardware much of 
the time.

>
> My next will be a laptop from Lenovo (formerly IBM).
>
>
Good systems, own 1, have another via work. Pricey for the spec, but 
reliable as all heck.

-Adam

> -----Original Message-----
> From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
> [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On 
> Behalf Of Steve Kale
> Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 5:58 AM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: New PC recommendations
> 
> Is this forum the tight place to be discussing what PC to 
> buy?  I don't think so.

	That sounds right, but: Where would be a good forum dealing with a
PC optimized for Photoshop (something that photographers who are non-geeks
could understand)?  I imagine most of us here use PS.  I'm struggling a bit
with the same problem myself, and so far it appears to be a custom-built
situation.  Thx for any references.

Ken

_____  

From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ken
Carney
Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 6:01 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Re: New PC recommendations


 At the risk of offending the purists, a pc is no different from any of the
items of hardware such as eye one, printers, x-rite 810's etc etc etc that
are in the chain to produce an image and which are discussed incessently.
More mundane perhaps, but no less necessary. Not that the eternal mac vs pc
argument doesn't get tedious, someone looking for ideas about gear to
produce fine prints (to use an old but honored term) should certainly feel
welcome to ask.
 
Roger 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
> [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On 
> Behalf Of Steve Kale
> Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 5:58 AM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: New PC recommendations
> 
> Is this forum the tight place to be discussing what PC to 
> buy?  I don't think so.

      That sounds right, but: Where would be a good forum dealing with a
PC optimized for Photoshop (something that photographers who are non-geeks
could understand)?  I imagine most of us here use PS.  I'm struggling a bit
with the same problem myself, and so far it appears to be a custom-built
situation.  Thx for any references.

Ken





-- 

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For your security, rlsopher@...

digitally signed this message on 13 March 2006 at 02:11:36 UTC.

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Folks,
   
  I work as a small business computing consultant and have a degree in Professional Photography.  The company I work for is a Dell dealer, a Microsoft Certified Partner and a VAR (Value Added Reseller).  Dells are not mass produced they are CUSTOM MADE TO ORDER.  
   
  On Thursday I speced out a computer for a client to edit video.  Originally they were looking at a Dell Optiplex, I suggested instead a Dell Precision 380 workstation.  The Precision 380 has SATA RAID built in and ECC memory.  It is hard to beat the price that Dell is asking for made to order machines.
   
  If I were building my own machine for Graphics/Photo imaging I would use an AMD dual core processor, 3.0 GB/sec SATA RAID (5 or 10) and a motherboard that can use ECC memory.  I also would use at least 2GB of RAM with each stick being 1GB each.
   
  Stan Colson
  
 
  Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 21:44:17 -0000

From: "garyphoto6" 
Subject: New PC recommendations

Hello,
I am planning on buying a new PC to use with PS CS2 and an Epson 
R2400 and was looking for recommendations on Processor and memory. I 
want to get something that is fast enough but will not break the bank. 
Dell has Pentium 4 and Pentium D and Xeon. Does anyone have experience 
with these and what speed of processor is necessary? 
Thanks,
Gary W


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> From: Roger L Sopher [c]
>
>  At the risk of offending the purists, a pc is no different from
> any of the
> items of hardware such as eye one, printers, x-rite 810's etc etc etc that
> are in the chain to produce an image and which are discussed incessently.
> More mundane perhaps, but no less necessary. Not that the eternal
> mac vs pc
> argument doesn't get tedious, someone looking for ideas about gear to
> produce fine prints (to use an old but honored term) should certainly feel
> welcome to ask.

I think it's on topic, too, as long as the question is about the
appropriateness of a machine to the job of photo editing. A machine used for
photo editing will need a lot of RAM, but not need a hot 3D video card,
while a machine used for gaming will have the opposite requirements. A
machine used for photo editing will eventually need a huge hard disk, while
a machine used for most other purposes (except, say, audio or video editing)
won't. And for someone who eventually accumulates hundreds of gigs of
photos, an external hard drive is a preferred backup mechanism, since DVDs
can be pretty space consuming at that volume. A machine used for photo
editing needs a first rate monitor (and calibrator), but can use any old
crappy sound system. A machine used for photo editing can benefit from a
fast CPU (including a dual, if running PS), but doesn't need it quite as
much as one used for long computations, like the electronic and math
simulations I run. Pano stitching would be such an application, though, but
not everyone does that. And even the occasional crash (a problem I don't
have on my XP systems) isn't particularly troublesome, where it would be on
a machine that does hour-long jobs.

--

Ciao,               Paul D. DeRocco
Paul                mailto:pderocco@...

Err the Adobe Photoshop forum would be a better place to start - you can
even focus your questions in on other Windoze users.

> From: Ken Carney <kcarney1@...>

> 
> That sounds right, but: Where would be a good forum dealing with a
> PC optimized for Photoshop (something that photographers who are non-geeks
> could understand)?  I imagine most of us here use PS.  I'm struggling a bit
> with the same problem myself, and so far it appears to be a custom-built
> situation.  Thx for any references.
> 
> Ken

Thx, definitely a logical place to look :).   I love photography but have
always had trouble working up my interest in gear, until those 1gb+ files
came along.  I did find a place I might do business with, Puget Custom
Computers.  You tell them your needs and they configure they PC.  Prices
seem reasonable also, around $2,500 for what I am guessing a good PS
configuration would be (dual-core AMD processor, 4gb ram, 4 HD's and other
goodies).  

Ken

> -----Original Message-----
> From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
> [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On 
> Behalf Of Steve Kale
> Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 2:48 AM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: New PC recommendations
> 
> Err the Adobe Photoshop forum would be a better place to 
> start - you can even focus your questions in on other Windoze users.

This may be OT but there is no such thing as a stable platform. I have been told this by the graphics people at several offset film houses. When worked to the limit, the Mac hangs with a regularity that has all of them saving files of work in progress with religious feavor. 

Mac has its own learn curve sure it's a little more user friendly but that comes at an additional 20 to30% more in costs. Which could buy you more memory and hard disk space.

While Dell, HP and all the lumber giants may not have cutting edge computers, what they have is extended warranties which could be worth its weight in gold when the unit comes down. The custom built unit better be built by poeple who know what they are doing - or subtle incompatabilities between components could make that speed demon unit planed behave like a limping tiger. 

 A duo cor unit, say 2 x 160 gig hard disks, 2 to 4 mb or Ram, a good graphics card not the same as a cutting edge gammer card , a good LCD or CRT monitor ,  2 dvd burners and your off to on a working platform close to the leading apex for at least 2 years. 

I would love a Mac but not at their current prices. Nor with the relearning curve that a switch over brings or the re stocking of software. 

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: steveh0607 
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 10:20 PM
  Subject: [Digital BW] Re: New PC recommendations


  --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Carr <patcarr@...> wrote:
  >
  > garyphoto6 wrote:
  > 
  Hello Gary,

  Patrick wrote "...get a Mac". That would be sound advice. The Windows operating system is 
  notorious for crashing. It is also way behind the curve when it comes to innovation. Apple 
  computer may be a small company but they still produce the most advanced, and stable 
  machine on the market. But don't just take my word for it, visit the Apple web site or even 
  better, go to an Apple retail store investigate the product.

  Steve
  > >Hello,
  > >I am planning on buying a new PC to use with PS CS2 and an Epson 
  > >R2400  and was looking for recommendations on Processor and memory. I 
  > >want to get something that is fast enough but will not break the bank. 
  > >Dell has Pentium 4 and Pentium D and Xeon. Does anyone have experience 
  > >with these and what speed of processor is necessary? 
  > >Thanks,
  > >Gary W
  > >
  > >  
  > >
  > Gary;
  > My suggestions:
  > Stay away from Dell, and other large PC computer manufacturers. Instead, 
  > have your computer made locally. Get some references/recommendations and 
  > when you decide on a shop, explain to the people there what you want to 
  > do with the computer and of course, how much you can afford. This way 
  > you can (with their help) pick each part of your system.
  > Sure, this'll take a little more effort than putting in an order for an 
  > assembly line Dell, but you'll always have a place to take it if a 
  > problem crops up, and turn around time will be much shorter--and you'll 
  > have a better computer.
  > 
  > You might start with a fast AMD processor. In compariable price ranges, 
  > they are quicker than Intel, especially in Photoshop. They also run 
  > cooler. Of course you'll invariably hear "get a Mac." That's fine--nice 
  > computers. But, if you go with PCs, I'd stay away from the mass-produced.
  > 
  > All the best;
  > -Patrick Carr
  > 
  > Carr Imaging
  > patcarr@...
  > patrickcarrimaging.com
  >






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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

This is a misconception that many have, that Macs are more expensive. 
All the research that I have seen on TCO, Total Cost of Ownership, Macs 
are cheaper. They usually require less maintenance and come with more 
bundled software.

cort

On Mar 17, 2006, at 10:11 AM, ellery wrote:

> I would love a Mac but not at their current prices.
--
Cort Anderson
Training Wheels, llc
www.trwheels.com
620-488-2960
620-488-3196 fax

I use both Mac and PC to manipulate huge (>1GB files) and spool them off to a 7800. The 
Mac is infinitely more stable when working at the margins of available RAM and HD space. 
In particular, especially with the dual processor versions, the interface stays responsive 
even when PS or the printer driver is churning massive files to disk or running PS filters. 

I am writing this in Safari while PS is doing a Smart Sharpen on a 20000 x 6000 pixel file 
and the Epson driver is spooling a 6' long print to the 7800. Try doing that in Windows. 
And this is not on a top end machine but an old dual 1 GHz G4. I also have MS Word, 
Pages, an RSS aggregator, Address Book, Preview and Adobe Bridge open.

Many mac users habitually keep a dozen apps running simply because (like in this case) 
they forget about them.

By contrast, the PC (which is a 3GHz machine with loads of memory and far more scratch 
disk space) simply locks up when you ask Photoshop to do anything difficult, and 
frequenly has to be restarted to unfreeze it.

Also, let's not even get into the pain involved in reinstalling Windows compared to 
reinstalling OS X while retaining your settings, documents etc.



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "ellery" <ellery@...> wrote:
>
> This may be OT but there is no such thing as a stable platform. I have been told this by 
the graphics people at several offset film houses. When worked to the limit, the Mac hangs 
with a regularity that has all of them saving files of work in progress with religious feavor. 
> 
> Mac has its own learn curve sure it's a little more user friendly but that comes at an 
additional 20 to30% more in costs. Which could buy you more memory and hard disk 
space.
> 
> While Dell, HP and all the lumber giants may not have cutting edge computers, what 
they have is extended warranties which could be worth its weight in gold when the unit 
comes down. The custom built unit better be built by poeple who know what they are 
doing - or subtle incompatabilities between components could make that speed demon 
unit planed behave like a limping tiger. 
> 
>  A duo cor unit, say 2 x 160 gig hard disks, 2 to 4 mb or Ram, a good graphics card not 
the same as a cutting edge gammer card , a good LCD or CRT monitor ,  2 dvd burners 
and your off to on a working platform close to the leading apex for at least 2 years. 
> 
> I would love a Mac but not at their current prices. Nor with the relearning curve that a 
switch over brings or the re stocking of software. 
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: steveh0607 
>   To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
>   Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 10:20 PM
>   Subject: [Digital BW] Re: New PC recommendations
> 
> 
>   --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Carr <patcarr@> 
wrote:
>   >
>   > garyphoto6 wrote:
>   > 
>   Hello Gary,
> 
>   Patrick wrote "...get a Mac". That would be sound advice. The Windows operating 
system is 
>   notorious for crashing. It is also way behind the curve when it comes to innovation. 
Apple 
>   computer may be a small company but they still produce the most advanced, and 
stable 
>   machine on the market. But don't just take my word for it, visit the Apple web site or 
even 
>   better, go to an Apple retail store investigate the product.
> 
>   Steve
>   > >Hello,
>   > >I am planning on buying a new PC to use with PS CS2 and an Epson 
>   > >R2400  and was looking for recommendations on Processor and memory. I 
>   > >want to get something that is fast enough but will not break the bank. 
>   > >Dell has Pentium 4 and Pentium D and Xeon. Does anyone have experience 
>   > >with these and what speed of processor is necessary? 
>   > >Thanks,
>   > >Gary W
>   > >
>   > >  
>   > >
>   > Gary;
>   > My suggestions:
>   > Stay away from Dell, and other large PC computer manufacturers. Instead, 
>   > have your computer made locally. Get some references/recommendations and 
>   > when you decide on a shop, explain to the people there what you want to 
>   > do with the computer and of course, how much you can afford. This way 
>   > you can (with their help) pick each part of your system.
>   > Sure, this'll take a little more effort than putting in an order for an 
>   > assembly line Dell, but you'll always have a place to take it if a 
>   > problem crops up, and turn around time will be much shorter--and you'll 
>   > have a better computer.
>   > 
>   > You might start with a fast AMD processor. In compariable price ranges, 
>   > they are quicker than Intel, especially in Photoshop. They also run 
>   > cooler. Of course you'll invariably hear "get a Mac." That's fine--nice 
>   > computers. But, if you go with PCs, I'd stay away from the mass-produced.
>   > 
>   > All the best;
>   > -Patrick Carr
>   > 
>   > Carr Imaging
>   > patcarr@
>   > patrickcarrimaging.com
>   >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>   Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as they are 
often being updated.
> 
>   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
>   If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, 
please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page.
> 
>   Please follow these basic guidelines:
>   - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short.
>   - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. Hostile, 
aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the membership without notice.
>   - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W printing. Users 
who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from the membership.
>   - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and guidelines, and 
to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and Moderators. See "Group 
Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files section:
>   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> 
>   BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT 
YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND 
"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU 
FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY 
DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, 
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DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH 
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DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE 
DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> 
> 
> 
> 
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photography college  
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> 
> 
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--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "ellery" <ellery@...> wrote:
>
> This may be OT but there is no such thing as a stable platform. I have been told this by 
the graphics people at several offset film houses. When worked to the limit, the Mac hangs 
with a regularity that has all of them saving files of work in progress with religious feavor. 
SNIP

Don't want to start a MAC/PC swing fest, but I must protest your allegation from the 
"graphics people at several offset film houses", that MACS pressed to the limit will "hang 
with regularity". 

This may have been true with the old OS, but not so with the latest incarnations of OSX! I 
press my "old" dual 867 G4 all the time, and can't think of the last time I had my system 
crashed. Regularly run PS7 in Classic(this crashes occassionally) PS CS, & InDesign 2 
concurrently with 2 gig of RAM, and Hard Drives maxed out with 4--160 gig.

Also, I've found that Windoz XP, SP2 seems quite stable also. But my experience with the 
Windoz is limited to my wife's 3-year-old lap top, not running anything nearly as pressing 
as my MAX's.

John Nollendorfs

Are we drifting toward another Mac vs PC war? Can we leave that for  
another group?
Please?
Mark

>
>
> Don't want to start a MAC/PC swing fest, but I must protest your  
> allegation from the
> "graphics people at several offset film houses", that MACS pressed  
> to the limit will "hang
> with regularity".
>
> This may have been true with the old OS, but not so with the latest  
> incarnations of OSX! I
> press my "old" dual 867 G4 all the time, and can't think of the  
> last time I had my system
> crashed.

Not to contribute to Mac/PC issues, either, but to attest to the  
current Mac OS being far more stable than Mac OSes of old.  I have  
had days in the past which were spent on things like reformatting and  
reinstalling- hours and hours forfeited to just getting back to point  
zero.  That hasn't happened in years.  Even if something like a wrong  
driver or piece of hardware is causing kernel panics, which have to  
be fixed before you can do anything- once you do fix it, you're ok.   
You're not left with a disk full of hosed data.  I run a couple of  
routine maintenance utilities, do permissions whenever I install  
anything, and that's all it takes anymore.  Much better than a few  
years ago.

James