Digital BW, The Print

We have a Roland D'vinci 64" printer which runs currently with 5 blacks 
and a full Hexachrome set (12 different inks in total). We print mainly 
for very fussy photographers and artists. Our alternate printer is 
currently a 9600 running via Imageprint 6. There is a noticeable 
difference in output quality for both B&W and color images between the 
two. The flexibility of the D'Vinci setup (based on StudioPrint 11/12 
RIP) allows you to use basically any ink in any position with your 
printer, with up to six different dilutions of black at once. You can 
print with black inks only, or use some or all of the color inks.  You 
could theoretically have 12 different black inks loaded,  provided that 
no more than six where used at a time. For less demanding output we 
have setups using just four inks - CMY and one black, or CMYOG and one 
black.  The downside is that it is a much bigger outlay than an Epson 
9800 and does require specific profiling and linearization for each 
setup, but it is better made, more reliable, cheaper to run and offers 
superior output in return.


Warren Macris

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Warren Macris 
<warren@h...> wrote:
>
> We have a Roland D'vinci 64" printer which runs currently with 5 
blacks 
> and a full Hexachrome set (12 different inks in total). We print 
mainly 
> for very fussy photographers and artists. Our alternate printer is 
> currently a 9600 running via Imageprint 6. There is a noticeable 
> difference in output quality for both B&W and color images between 
the 
> two. The flexibility of the D'Vinci setup (based on StudioPrint 
11/12 
> RIP) allows you to use basically any ink in any position with your 
> printer, with up to six different dilutions of black at once. You 
can 
> print with black inks only, or use some or all of the color inks.  
You 
> could theoretically have 12 different black inks loaded,  provided 
that 
> no more than six where used at a time. For less demanding output we 
> have setups using just four inks - CMY and one black, or CMYOG and 
one 
> black.  The downside is that it is a much bigger outlay than an 
Epson 
> 9800 and does require specific profiling and linearization for each 
> setup, but it is better made, more reliable, cheaper to run and 
offers 
> superior output in return.
> 
> 

Does that use a 6, 7, or 8 channel profile? Or is it all mixed inside 
Studio Print to make a "standard" CMYK type output when using 
multiple blacks and CcMmYOG?

Epsons can print on many different papers. How about the D'vinci?

Are you using Roland's inks? Which ones?

Thanks,

Scott

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Warren Macris 
<warren@h...> wrote:
>
> We have a Roland D'vinci 64" printer which runs currently with 5 
blacks 
> and a full Hexachrome set (12 different inks in total). We print 
mainly 
> for very fussy photographers and artists. Our alternate printer is 
> currently a 9600 running via Imageprint 6. There is a noticeable 
> difference in output quality for both B&W and color images between 
the 
> two. The flexibility of the D'Vinci setup (based on StudioPrint 
11/12 
> RIP) allows you to use basically any ink in any position with your 
> printer, with up to six different dilutions of black at once. You 
can 
> print with black inks only, or use some or all of the color inks.  
You 
> could theoretically have 12 different black inks loaded,  provided 
that 
> no more than six where used at a time. For less demanding output we 
> have setups using just four inks - CMY and one black, or CMYOG and 
one 
> black.  The downside is that it is a much bigger outlay than an 
Epson 
> 9800 and does require specific profiling and linearization for each 
> setup, but it is better made, more reliable, cheaper to run and 
offers 

> superior output in return.
> 
> 
> Warren Macris
>

its anwesome machine..and it can print on anything..It's Bigger faster and
The Blacks are Blacker Than an epson..But The price tag is Huge..


Cheers
Jim Doyle


J. Doyle Enterprises LLC
114 Old Orchard Rd
Cherry Hill, NJ 08003
856-424-8660
http://www.shadesofpaper.com
AOL IM: Brokerup99

  -----Original Message-----
  From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
scott_now_coming
  Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 11:35 PM
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Digital Black & White printer test site.


  Epsons can print on many different papers. How about the D'vinci?

  Are you using Roland's inks? Which ones?

  Thanks,

  Scott

  --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Warren Macris
  <warren@h...> wrote:
  >
  > We have a Roland D'vinci 64" printer which runs currently with 5
  blacks
  > and a full Hexachrome set (12 different inks in total). We print
  mainly
  > for very fussy photographers and artists. Our alternate printer is
  > currently a 9600 running via Imageprint 6. There is a noticeable
  > difference in output quality for both B&W and color images between
  the
  > two. The flexibility of the D'Vinci setup (based on StudioPrint
  11/12
  > RIP) allows you to use basically any ink in any position with your
  > printer, with up to six different dilutions of black at once. You
  can
  > print with black inks only, or use some or all of the color inks.
  You
  > could theoretically have 12 different black inks loaded,  provided
  that
  > no more than six where used at a time. For less demanding output we
  > have setups using just four inks - CMY and one black, or CMYOG and
  one
  > black.  The downside is that it is a much bigger outlay than an
  Epson
  > 9800 and does require specific profiling and linearization for each
  > setup, but it is better made, more reliable, cheaper to run and
  offers
  > superior output in return.
  >
  >
  > Warren Macris
  >






  Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
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FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY
DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS,
GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  “OWNER” AND
“MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE
POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Does anyone know if the new Rolands and Mimaki's are still using the
Seiko/Epson heads in them? I know they both did a couple of years ago.
The Mimaki had two sets of the Epson 10K heads for 12 channels
available and I assume this is what Roland is now doing with their
model driven by Ergosofts DaVinci.

Epson licenced the heads to them. Epson must have made a conscious
decision not to go for the bigger heavier machines but make money on
the R&D by letting the other outfits use the patented heads. But, I
can't image Roland continue paying them for it forever and not making
their own heads, but who knows.

john



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Doyle"
<jdoyle1713@c...> wrote:
>
> its anwesome machine..and it can print on anything..It's Bigger
faster and
> The Blacks are Blacker Than an epson..But The price tag is Huge..
> 
> 
> Cheers
> Jim Doyle
> 
> 
> J. Doyle Enterprises LLC
> 114 Old Orchard Rd
> Cherry Hill, NJ 08003
> 856-424-8660
> http://www.shadesofpaper.com
> AOL IM: Brokerup99
> 
>   -----Original Message-----
>   From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
> scott_now_coming
>   Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 11:35 PM
>   To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
>   Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Digital Black & White printer test site.
> 
> 
>   Epsons can print on many different papers. How about the D'vinci?
> 
>   Are you using Roland's inks? Which ones?
> 
>   Thanks,
> 
>   Scott
> 
>   --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Warren Macris
>   <warren@h...> wrote:
>   >
>   > We have a Roland D'vinci 64" printer which runs currently with 5
>   blacks
>   > and a full Hexachrome set (12 different inks in total). We print
>   mainly
>   > for very fussy photographers and artists. Our alternate printer is
>   > currently a 9600 running via Imageprint 6. There is a noticeable
>   > difference in output quality for both B&W and color images between
>   the
>   > two. The flexibility of the D'Vinci setup (based on StudioPrint
>   11/12
>   > RIP) allows you to use basically any ink in any position with your
>   > printer, with up to six different dilutions of black at once. You
>   can
>   > print with black inks only, or use some or all of the color inks.
>   You
>   > could theoretically have 12 different black inks loaded,  provided
>   that
>   > no more than six where used at a time. For less demanding output we
>   > have setups using just four inks - CMY and one black, or CMYOG and
>   one
>   > black.  The downside is that it is a much bigger outlay than an
>   Epson
>   > 9800 and does require specific profiling and linearization for each
>   > setup, but it is better made, more reliable, cheaper to run and
>   offers
>   > superior output in return.
>   >
>   >
>   > Warren Macris
>   >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>   Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other
resources as
> they are often being updated.
> 
>   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
>   If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you
wish to
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting
this same
> page.
> 
>   Please follow these basic guidelines:
>   - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages
to keep
> them short.
>   - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
flames.
> Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
> membership without notice.
>   - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of
digital B&W
> printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed
from
> the membership.
>   - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group
Owner and
> Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files
section:
>   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> 
>   BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE
PRINT
> YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND
> "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE
LIABLE TO YOU
> FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR
EXEMPLARY
> DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS,
> GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  "OWNER" AND
> "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED
OF THE
> POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE
INABILITY
> TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED
ACCESS TO OR
> ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR
CONDUCT OF ANY
> THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER
> MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> 
> 
> 
> 
>
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>   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> 
>     a..  Visit your group "DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint" on the web.
> 
>     b..  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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> 
> 
>
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> 
> 
> --
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.14.25/247 - Release Date:
1/31/2006

> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "john dean" 
<deanwork2003@y...> wrote:
>
> Does anyone know if the new Rolands and Mimaki's are still using the
> Seiko/Epson heads in them? I know they both did a couple of years 
ago.
> The Mimaki had two sets of the Epson 10K heads for 12 channels
> available and I assume this is what Roland is now doing with their
> model driven by Ergosofts DaVinci.
> 
> Epson licenced the heads to them. Epson must have made a conscious
> decision not to go for the bigger heavier machines but make money on
> the R&D by letting the other outfits use the patented heads. But, I
> can't image Roland continue paying them for it forever and not 
making
> their own heads, but who knows.
> 
> john
> 
> 


Years ago they were using 4 of the heads from the 7/9000 machines. 
I'm pretty sure that Mimaki is using the 8 channel Epson head 
currently, since they don't have a 12 cahnnel machine. This might be 
different for the solvent, but the eco solvent should work with the 
Epson heads.

When creating the profiles each colour is considered one channel, so 
light cyan and cyan are seen as one colour, all of the blacks are also 
seen as one colour. We therefore create 6 channel profiles - CMYKOG 
normally.

>> We have a Roland D'vinci 64" printer which runs currently with 5
> blacks
>> and a full Hexachrome set (12 different inks in total). We print
> mainly
>> for very fussy photographers and artists. Our alternate printer is
>> currently a 9600 running via Imageprint 6. There is a noticeable
>> difference in output quality for both B&W and color images between
> the
>> two. The flexibility of the D'Vinci setup (based on StudioPrint
> 11/12
>> RIP) allows you to use basically any ink in any position with your
>> printer, with up to six different dilutions of black at once. You
> can
>> print with black inks only, or use some or all of the color inks.
> You
>> could theoretically have 12 different black inks loaded,  provided
> that
>> no more than six where used at a time. For less demanding output we
>> have setups using just four inks - CMY and one black, or CMYOG and
> one
>> black.  The downside is that it is a much bigger outlay than an
> Epson
>> 9800 and does require specific profiling and linearization for each
>> setup, but it is better made, more reliable, cheaper to run and
> offers
>> superior output in return.
>>
>>
>
> Does that use a 6, 7, or 8 channel profile? Or is it all mixed inside
> Studio Print to make a "standard" CMYK type output when using
> multiple blacks and CcMmYOG?
Regards,

Warren Macris

High Res Digital Imaging
Giclée Australia

61 2 833 88833

The Roland can print on all of the same papers as the Epson, but 
because there is always both a 'Photo' black and 'Matte' black 
available you can print on gloss or matte media by selecting the 
appropriate 'print environment' in the RIP. The inkset we currently use 
is the Roland pure pigment Hexachrome set: CcMmYKOG and the PiezoTone 
Quadblack Selenium Tone blacks.

On 02/02/2006, at 1:50 AM, DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
wrote:

> Subject: Re: Digital Black & White printer test site.
>
> Epsons can print on many different papers. How about the D'vinci?
>
> Are you using Roland's inks? Which ones?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Scott
>
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Warren Macris
> <warren@h...> wrote:
>>
>> We have a Roland D'vinci 64" printer which runs currently with 5
> blacks
>> and a full Hexachrome set (12 different inks in total). We print
> mainly
>> for very fussy photographers and artists. Our alternate printer is
>> currently a 9600 running via Imageprint 6. There is a noticeable
>> difference in output quality for both B&W and color images between
> the
>> two. The flexibility of the D'Vinci setup (based on StudioPrint
> 11/12
>> RIP) allows you to use basically any ink in any position with your
>> printer, with up to six different dilutions of black at once. You
> can
>> print with black inks only, or use some or all of the color inks.
> You
>> could theoretically have 12 different black inks loaded,  provided
> that
>> no more than six where used at a time. For less demanding output we
>> have setups using just four inks - CMY and one black, or CMYOG and
> one
>> black.  The downside is that it is a much bigger outlay than an
> Epson
>> 9800 and does require specific profiling and linearization for each
>> setup, but it is better made, more reliable, cheaper to run and
> offers
>> superior output in return.
>>
>>
>> Warren Macris
>>
Regards,

Warren Macris

High Res Digital Imaging
Giclée Australia

61 2 833 88833

I suspect Epson’s volume and factory experience allow them to make a profit
while still selling to Roland for less than they could do it themselves.
What may become an issue is if the next generation Epson printers have 12
channels.

Best regards,
John Moody

-----Original Message-----
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of john dean
Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 11:36 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Digital Black & White printer test site.

Does anyone know if the new Rolands and Mimaki's are still using the
Seiko/Epson heads in them? I know they both did a couple of years ago.
The Mimaki had two sets of the Epson 10K heads for 12 channels
available and I assume this is what Roland is now doing with their
model driven by Ergosofts DaVinci.

Epson licenced the heads to them. Epson must have made a conscious
decision not to go for the bigger heavier machines but make money on
the R&D by letting the other outfits use the patented heads. But, I
can't image Roland continue paying them for it forever and not making
their own heads, but who knows.

john





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Oh yes, what's Roland gonna do then when Epson is charging half the
price for pretty much the same size machine. You know Mimaki and
Roland have to be very concerned about Epson entering his grand format
market. Some people will pay a premium for the higher end machines,
but how much more with the way printers become obsolite these days? 10
grand more? Not me. 

john 


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "John Moody"
<moodymz3@...> wrote:
>
> I suspect Epson's volume and factory experience allow them to make a
profit
> while still selling to Roland for less than they could do it themselves.
> What may become an issue is if the next generation Epson printers
have 12
> channels.
> 
> Best regards,
> John Moody
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
john dean

> Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 11:36 AM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Digital Black & White printer test site.
> 
> Does anyone know if the new Rolands and Mimaki's are still using the
> Seiko/Epson heads in them? I know they both did a couple of years ago.
> The Mimaki had two sets of the Epson 10K heads for 12 channels
> available and I assume this is what Roland is now doing with their
> model driven by Ergosofts DaVinci.
> 
> Epson licenced the heads to them. Epson must have made a conscious
> decision not to go for the bigger heavier machines but make money on
> the R&D by letting the other outfits use the patented heads. But, I
> can't image Roland continue paying them for it forever and not making
> their own heads, but who knows.
> 
> john
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

I thought Roland manufactured the Epson printers for Epson (or some 
other company).

Epson may have their own technology, but doesn't someone build the 
printers for Epson?

Scott

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "john dean" 
<deanwork2003@...> wrote:
>
> Oh yes, what's Roland gonna do then when Epson is charging half the
> price for pretty much the same size machine. You know Mimaki and
> Roland have to be very concerned about Epson entering his grand 
format
> market. Some people will pay a premium for the higher end machines,
> but how much more with the way printers become obsolite these days? 
10
> grand more? Not me. 
> 
> john 
> 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "John Moody"
> <moodymz3@> wrote:
> >
> > I suspect Epson's volume and factory experience allow them to 
make a
> profit
> > while still selling to Roland for less than they could do it 
themselves.
> > What may become an issue is if the next generation Epson printers
> have 12
> > channels.
> > 
> > Best regards,
> > John Moody
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> > [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
> john dean
> > Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 11:36 AM
> > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Digital Black & White printer test site.
> > 
> > Does anyone know if the new Rolands and Mimaki's are still using 
the
> > Seiko/Epson heads in them? I know they both did a couple of years 
ago.
> > The Mimaki had two sets of the Epson 10K heads for 12 channels
> > available and I assume this is what Roland is now doing with their
> > model driven by Ergosofts DaVinci.
> > 
> > Epson licenced the heads to them. Epson must have made a conscious
> > decision not to go for the bigger heavier machines but make money 
on
> > the R&D by letting the other outfits use the patented heads. But, 
I
> > can't image Roland continue paying them for it forever and not 
making

> > their own heads, but who knows.
> > 
> > john
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>