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Re: [Digital BW] Nanochrome blue

Re: [Digital BW] Nanochrome blue

2006-01-23 by Walt Mucha

Hi Carl

What you're seeing is not metamerism. The light temperature of halogens and incandescent are a considerably warmer color temperature than daylight and that in effect will neutralise a cool tone print. Put it under plain flouresent light and you'll probably see a green/cyan cast. As to Dmax. If these inks last longer than dyes then that's good, if not, it's not all that spectacular. Still waiting for someone to put a color print in their window. I might have to spring for some of these inks myself just to satisfy my morbid curiosity ;-)

Regards, Walt
Show quoted textHide quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: Carl Schofield [mailto:scho@...]
Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2006 09:36 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] Nanochrome blue

Today I made some visual comparisons of prints I've made over the  
past few days using Nanochrome black ink in an Epson 4000 and  
printing BO mode, mostly on Hahnemuhle Photo Rag 308 and Hahnemuhle  
Photo Rag Satin.  In daylight the prints have a cold blue/black  
appearance, slightly cooler with the satin compared to regular photo  
rag.  Under halogens or normal incandescent lighting the prints on  
both papers appear dead neutral.  So this cold blue color we have  
been discussing with regard to the Nanochrome black inks (K and LK)  
appears to be a metameric phenomenon.  This NOT the ugly metamerism  
we have seen before with other inks that changes on the magenta/green  
axis, but rather a cool/neutral shift.  Seems like the black inks may  
have been designed for neutrality under incandescent or halogen  
lighting.  Dmax is just terrific on these matte papers (1.9-2.0).

Re: [Digital BW] Nanochrome blue

2006-01-23 by Shilesh Jani

Walt,

I have pure color (K, C, LC, M, LM, and Y) at 25%, 50%, 75%, and 100%
coverage using QTR on my south facing window in Memphis, TN now for 2 
weeks. Comparisions are NanoChrome, R220 dye, and 4000 UC on EEM, 
EPG, EPSG, and one Hahnemuhle paper.

I am giving it 4 weeks before I take a peek with an I1.

Shilesh

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Walt Mucha" 
<wkm@k...> wrote:
>
> Hi Carl
> 
> What you're seeing is not metamerism. The light temperature of 
halogens and incandescent are a considerably warmer color temperature 
than daylight and that in effect will neutralise a cool tone print. 
Put it under plain flouresent light and you'll probably see a 
green/cyan cast. As to Dmax. If these inks last longer than dyes then 
that's good, if not, it's not all that spectacular. Still waiting for 
someone to put a color print in their window. I might have to spring 
for some of these inks myself just to satisfy my morbid curiosity ;-)
> 
> Regards, Walt
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Carl Schofield [mailto:scho@m...]
> Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2006 09:36 AM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Digital BW] Nanochrome blue
> 
> Today I made some visual comparisons of prints I've made over the  
> past few days using Nanochrome black ink in an Epson 4000 and  
> printing BO mode, mostly on Hahnemuhle Photo Rag 308 and 
Hahnemuhle  
> Photo Rag Satin.  In daylight the prints have a cold blue/black  
> appearance, slightly cooler with the satin compared to regular 
photo  
> rag.  Under halogens or normal incandescent lighting the prints on  
> both papers appear dead neutral.  So this cold blue color we have  
> been discussing with regard to the Nanochrome black inks (K and 
LK)  
> appears to be a metameric phenomenon.  This NOT the ugly 
metamerism  
> we have seen before with other inks that changes on the 
magenta/green  
> axis, but rather a cool/neutral shift.  Seems like the black inks 
may  
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> have been designed for neutrality under incandescent or halogen  
> lighting.  Dmax is just terrific on these matte papers (1.9-2.0).
>

Re: [Digital BW] Nanochrome blue

2006-01-23 by Carl Schofield

Thanks for clarifying Walt.   The color shift from blue to neutral is  
quite pronounced, but as you suggest not true metamerism.  No green/ 
cyan color under flourescent though.

Carl
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Jan 22, 2006, at 7:55 PM, Walt Mucha wrote:

> Hi Carl
>
> What you're seeing is not metamerism. The light temperature of  
> halogens and incandescent are a considerably warmer color  
> temperature than daylight and that in effect will neutralise a cool  
> tone print. Put it under plain flouresent light and you'll probably  
> see a green/cyan cast. As to Dmax. If these inks last longer than  
> dyes then that's good, if not, it's not all that spectacular. Still  
> waiting for someone to put a color print in their window. I might  
> have to spring for some of these inks myself just to satisfy my  
> morbid curiosity ;-)
>
> Regards, Walt
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Carl Schofield [mailto:scho@...]
> Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2006 09:36 AM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Digital BW] Nanochrome blue
>
> Today I made some visual comparisons of prints I've made over the
> past few days using Nanochrome black ink in an Epson 4000 and
> printing BO mode, mostly on Hahnemuhle Photo Rag 308 and Hahnemuhle
> Photo Rag Satin.  In daylight the prints have a cold blue/black
> appearance, slightly cooler with the satin compared to regular photo
> rag.  Under halogens or normal incandescent lighting the prints on
> both papers appear dead neutral.  So this cold blue color we have
> been discussing with regard to the Nanochrome black inks (K and LK)
> appears to be a metameric phenomenon.  This NOT the ugly metamerism
> we have seen before with other inks that changes on the magenta/green
> axis, but rather a cool/neutral shift.  Seems like the black inks may
> have been designed for neutrality under incandescent or halogen
> lighting.  Dmax is just terrific on these matte papers (1.9-2.0).
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other  
> resources as they are often being updated.
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you  
> wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by  
> visiting this same page.
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages  
> to keep them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or  
> flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed  
> from the membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital  
> B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be  
> removed from the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules  
> and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the  
> group Owner and Moderators. See “Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines”  
> in the Files section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
>
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE  
> PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE  
> “OWNER” AND “MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL  
> NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL,  
> CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO,  
> DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER  
> INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  “OWNER” AND “MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL  
> BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF  
> SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE  
> THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO  
> OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR  
> CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO  
> GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE  
> PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [Digital BW] Nanochrome blue

2006-01-23 by Walt Mucha

Shilesh,

If you have a reference print to compare it to, after 4 weeks you probably won't need an I1. If you do then that's a good sign. 

Walt 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: Shilesh Jani [mailto:shileshjani@bellsouth.net]
Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2006 03:05 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Nanochrome blue

Walt,

I have pure color (K, C, LC, M, LM, and Y) at 25%, 50%, 75%, and 100%
coverage using QTR on my south facing window in Memphis, TN now for 2 
weeks. Comparisions are NanoChrome, R220 dye, and 4000 UC on EEM, 
EPG, EPSG, and one Hahnemuhle paper.

I am giving it 4 weeks before I take a peek with an I1.

Shilesh

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Walt Mucha" 
<wkm@k...> wrote:
>
> Hi Carl
> 
> What you're seeing is not metamerism. The light temperature of 
halogens and incandescent are a considerably warmer color temperature 
than daylight and that in effect will neutralise a cool tone print. 
Put it under plain flouresent light and you'll probably see a 
green/cyan cast. As to Dmax. If these inks last longer than dyes then 
that's good, if not, it's not all that spectacular. Still waiting for 
someone to put a color print in their window. I might have to spring 
for some of these inks myself just to satisfy my morbid curiosity ;-)
> 
> Regards, Walt
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Carl Schofield [mailto:scho@m...]
> Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2006 09:36 AM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Digital BW] Nanochrome blue
> 
> Today I made some visual comparisons of prints I've made over the  
> past few days using Nanochrome black ink in an Epson 4000 and  
> printing BO mode, mostly on Hahnemuhle Photo Rag 308 and 
Hahnemuhle  
> Photo Rag Satin.  In daylight the prints have a cold blue/black  
> appearance, slightly cooler with the satin compared to regular 
photo  
> rag.  Under halogens or normal incandescent lighting the prints on  
> both papers appear dead neutral.  So this cold blue color we have  
> been discussing with regard to the Nanochrome black inks (K and 
LK)  
> appears to be a metameric phenomenon.  This NOT the ugly 
metamerism  
> we have seen before with other inks that changes on the 
magenta/green  
> axis, but rather a cool/neutral shift.  Seems like the black inks 
may  
> have been designed for neutrality under incandescent or halogen  
> lighting.  Dmax is just terrific on these matte papers (1.9-2.0).
>






Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as they are often being updated.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page.

Please follow these basic guidelines:
- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short.
- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the membership without notice.
- Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from the membership.
- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and Moderators. See “Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines” in the Files section:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/

BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE “OWNER” AND “MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  “OWNER” AND “MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
 
Yahoo! Groups Links

Re: [Digital BW] Nanochrome blue

2006-01-23 by Steve Kale

Good idea.  Keep us posted.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> From: Walt Mucha <wkm@...>
> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 00:55:52 +0000
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Nanochrome blue
> 
> Hi Carl
> 
> What you're seeing is not metamerism. The light temperature of halogens and
> incandescent are a considerably warmer color temperature than daylight and
> that in effect will neutralise a cool tone print. Put it under plain
> flouresent light and you'll probably see a green/cyan cast. As to Dmax. If
> these inks last longer than dyes then that's good, if not, it's not all that
> spectacular. Still waiting for someone to put a color print in their window. I
> might have to spring for some of these inks myself just to satisfy my morbid
> curiosity ;-)
> 
> Regards, Walt
>

Re: [Digital BW] Nanochrome blue

2006-01-23 by Shilesh Jani

Yup,

I have the refernce prints sitting in a drawer.

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Walt Mucha" 
<wkm@k...> wrote:
>
> Shilesh,
> 
> If you have a reference print to compare it to, after 4 weeks you 
probably won't need an I1. If you do then that's a good sign. 
> 
> Walt 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Shilesh Jani [mailto:shileshjani@b...]
> Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2006 03:05 PM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Nanochrome blue
> 
> Walt,
> 
> I have pure color (K, C, LC, M, LM, and Y) at 25%, 50%, 75%, and 
100%
> coverage using QTR on my south facing window in Memphis, TN now 
for 2 
> weeks. Comparisions are NanoChrome, R220 dye, and 4000 UC on EEM, 
> EPG, EPSG, and one Hahnemuhle paper.
> 
> I am giving it 4 weeks before I take a peek with an I1.
> 
> Shilesh
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Walt Mucha" 
> <wkm@k...> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Carl
> > 
> > What you're seeing is not metamerism. The light temperature of 
> halogens and incandescent are a considerably warmer color 
temperature 
> than daylight and that in effect will neutralise a cool tone 
print. 
> Put it under plain flouresent light and you'll probably see a 
> green/cyan cast. As to Dmax. If these inks last longer than dyes 
then 
> that's good, if not, it's not all that spectacular. Still waiting 
for 
> someone to put a color print in their window. I might have to 
spring 
> for some of these inks myself just to satisfy my morbid 
curiosity ;-)
> > 
> > Regards, Walt
> > 
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Carl Schofield [mailto:scho@m...]
> > Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2006 09:36 AM
> > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [Digital BW] Nanochrome blue
> > 
> > Today I made some visual comparisons of prints I've made over 
the  
> > past few days using Nanochrome black ink in an Epson 4000 and  
> > printing BO mode, mostly on Hahnemuhle Photo Rag 308 and 
> Hahnemuhle  
> > Photo Rag Satin.  In daylight the prints have a cold blue/black  
> > appearance, slightly cooler with the satin compared to regular 
> photo  
> > rag.  Under halogens or normal incandescent lighting the prints 
on  
> > both papers appear dead neutral.  So this cold blue color we 
have  
> > been discussing with regard to the Nanochrome black inks (K and 
> LK)  
> > appears to be a metameric phenomenon.  This NOT the ugly 
> metamerism  
> > we have seen before with other inks that changes on the 
> magenta/green  
> > axis, but rather a cool/neutral shift.  Seems like the black 
inks 
> may  
> > have been designed for neutrality under incandescent or halogen  
> > lighting.  Dmax is just terrific on these matte papers (1.9-2.0).
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other 
resources as they are often being updated.
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you 
wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by 
visiting this same page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages 
to keep them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or 
flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed 
from the membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of 
digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts 
may be removed from the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules 
and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the 
group Owner and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" 
in the Files section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> 
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE 
PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT 
THE "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP 
SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, 
SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT 
LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR 
OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF 
DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE 
POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE 
INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) 
UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; 
(iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, 
THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE 
DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
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>  
> Yahoo! Groups Links
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