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2005-12-30 by sagaface
I have read with great interest Clayton's article on papers but wondered what some of you are gravitating towards, specifically, what are you all printing on for sale or exhibition? I like HPR's characterisitcs...all except the price and the flaking. Ultrasmooth sounds promising but I'm on a 2200 and would like sheets. Anyone? Sarah
2005-12-30 by Louis Dina
Sarah, Some possibilities..... Innova Papers are about 1/3 the price of the HPR. Supposedly, some people from Hahnemuhle formed Innova, so the weight is similar. The Fiba-print and Smooth Cotton papers are acid free and have about the same Dmax as HPR. I have just run a few Dmax tests, but haven't built any profiles or done any prints yet. www.shadesofpaper.com has a sampler pack with two sheets each of 4 different Innova papers, if you are interested. Included in the sampler are Cold Press Art and Soft Textured Art papers, but of which are much more textured. I didn't see any mention of optical brighteners in any of the litereature, so you will probably have to ask Jim Doyle at Shades of Paper if they have any. Another good paper at a reasonable price is Moab Entrada. These papers are reasonably priced and coated on both sides. The Bright White has optical Brighteners, but the Natural has none at all. Both are acid free. I have lots of nice prints on both. Moab papers had some paper dust problems initially, but they responded to complaints and are doing a good job now of shipping dust free product. Crane Museo II is a gorgeous, heavy paper (365 gsm), but has more texture than the ones mentioned above, more like the textured Innova papers. It is more expensive than the above papers, but less than HPR. Museo II is coated on both sides and the quality is superb. Dmax is comparable to HPR from what I have seen in my tests. Epson Velvet Fine Art is also a wonderful archival paper. It has the best Dmax of any paper I have personally used so far (with UC-MK inkset), but is a little pricey. Sheet sizes are limited, but available in 13x19. One of my favorites. Epson Enhanced Matte is also a great performer, but is not acid free. Many have commented on yellowing, but I haven't seen any in my EEM prints (so far). I use a fair amount of it, but not for prints I would sell. It's not worth the risk to me. Probably one of the best performers, right behind VFA. Actually, I was testing the Innova papers looking for an acid-free archival EEM substitute that is reasonably priced. They are nice papers but don't have quite as good a Dmax in my testing so far. The smooth cotton and fiba-print are contenders with a similar smooth finish but heavier than EEM. All the papers above are available in sheets, and many in rolls. I use them with both my 2200 and my 4000 with the UC inkset. I have also used some of them with MIS UT-7 inks in my 2200 and they perform well. FWIW, the 4000 driver seems a little weak on matte papers, but QTR (with standard UC inks) can hit higher Dmax levels than the driver. I suspect the 4000 driver was set a little conservatively for matte papers, but Epson will never admit it. The fact that I can get the 4000 to reach higher Dmax levels using QTR with UC inks tends to support this contention, so it isn't the printer itself. This doesn't seem to be an issue with glossy, semigloss or luster media. I haven't had this issue with the 2200 and the 2200 driver, which seem to perform well with the standard UC inkset on matte papers. Hope this provides some food for thought. Lou --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "sagaface" <sagaface@y...> wrote: > > I have read with great interest Clayton's article on papers but wondered what some of you > are gravitating towards, specifically, what are you all printing on for sale or exhibition? I > like HPR's characterisitcs...all except the price and the flaking. Ultrasmooth sounds
> promising but I'm on a 2200 and would like sheets. > > Anyone? > > Sarah >
2005-12-30 by Stephen Petegorsky
Sarah - I've pretty much switched from HPR to Innova's Photo Smooth Cotton. I like the way it takes ink/pigment, its white is very close to HPR, and it's a bit cheaper. Stephen Petegorsky
2005-12-30 by Greg
Paper white for the four Innova papers in the sample pack. Blue on the left, red on the right. A high blue value normally indicates optical brighteners. Cold press art: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v329/Greg_E/INNOVACPA4.gif Photo Fiba print: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v329/Greg_E/INNOVAFIBA4.gif Photo Smooth cotton: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v329/Greg_E/INNOVAPHOTOSMOOTH4.gif Soft textured art: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v329/Greg_E/INNOVASOFTTEX4.gif I have not repeated the measurements with a UV filtered spectro to see how they would differ. You can see how Enhanced matte differs between regular and UV filtered spectro here: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v329/Greg_E/i1DTP20test.gif
2005-12-30 by joshhackney
Sarah, Look back through some of Walts posts on VFA and USFA. He list some dmax values too. This was very helpful to me. I have done ALOT of testing on Innova Photo Smooth Rag recently. Its nice. I've sold alot of prints on that paper. Using K3, I can't get a dmax higher than 1.6. I've used ABW and QTR. Not sure it's possible. USFA is coming in around 1.7 . . . it a noticable difference. USFA is a tiny bit warmer. I'm finding Epson papers are very good quality - from the paper, right down to the packaging. You're not going to save any money relative to HPR though . . . only redeeming thing about the price of USFA is that it is double sided in sheet form. Additionally, note Walts findings on VFA. Best dmax going on a matte paper. And since you are on a 2200, you won't be limited by the lack of large sheets/rolls. I'd go with VFA if you don't mind the texture. Good luck. Josh --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "sagaface" <sagaface@y...> wrote: > > I have read with great interest Clayton's article on papers but wondered what some of you
> are gravitating towards, specifically, what are you all printing on for sale or exhibition? I > like HPR's characterisitcs...all except the price and the flaking. Ultrasmooth sounds > promising but I'm on a 2200 and would like sheets. > > Anyone? > > Sarah >
2005-12-30 by Paul Roark
> ... Innova Photo Smooth Rag ... nice. I've sold alot > of prints on that paper. Using K3, I can't get a dmax > higher than 1.6. I've used ABW and > QTR. Not sure it's possible. USFA is coming in around 1.7 . . . I think on most printers, aside from the k3 generation, Eboni on the Innova has a better dmax than Eboni on UltraSmooth. Epson's ability to get USFA up to 1.7 may be limited to the latest k3 driver. With Eboni I usually see mid to high 160s for Innova and low 1.60s for UltraSmooth and Premier Art. Dmax figures can vary significantly with different printers, different black inks, and different drivers. I think the 2200 generation of printers may all benefit substantially from using a rip. Paul www.PaulRoark.com
2005-12-31 by sagaface
Many interesting and informative comments, thank you all. I noticed no one mentioned Hawk Mountain or Red River papers. Too new? Too small to control quality? Curious. I use QTR on my 2200 when I have more of a tonal spread, but am settling in to BO with Eboni for most of my high contrast work and love it so far. I'd like to try VFA after reading about it's high Dmax and tone but I'm leery of the texture obscuring detail, which was why I asked about USFA. Is VFA really that much more textured than HPR? Paul, which Innova were you refering to with Eboni? Photo Smooth Rag? Would you personally rate this paper high in terms of fade resistance/discoloration/stability et. al? I need to start testing some new papers but want to narrow the field considerably due to budget contraints. And thanks much, Josh...I'll do a search for Walt's posts on the Epson papers. Sarah --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark" <paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> > > > > ... Innova Photo Smooth Rag ... nice. I've sold alot > > of prints on that paper. Using K3, I can't get a dmax > > higher than 1.6. I've used ABW and > > QTR. Not sure it's possible. USFA is coming in around 1.7 . . . > > I think on most printers, aside from the k3 generation, Eboni on the Innova > has a better dmax than Eboni on UltraSmooth. Epson's ability to get USFA up > to 1.7 may be limited to the latest k3 driver. With Eboni I usually see mid > to high 160s for Innova and low 1.60s for UltraSmooth and Premier Art. > > Dmax figures can vary significantly with different printers, different black > inks, and different drivers. I think the 2200 generation of printers may > all benefit substantially from using a rip. > > Paul > www.PaulRoark.com >
2005-12-31 by sagaface
Lou, thanks for your comments. I had not heard much about Museo and it seems like some of the heavy-weight, textured papers do have higher Dmax than others (is that due to the optics of looking at the ink on textured surfaces? I thought it was supposed to be glossy papers that gave more of an illusion of higher Dmax due to relfectance.....it's all somehwat convoluted to me), which is a drag becuase I don't want texture. I also don't want to get too hung up on micro-fine Dmax distinctions, but having said that it is still important as there is so much deep black in my images. I guess there is no such thing as a perfect paper, just ones that do the job better than others, depending on what that job is and what tools you're using. I can't believe how much $$ I have spent on ink and paper! Thanks again, Sarah --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Louis Dina" <lbdina@c...> wrote:
> > Sarah, > > Some possibilities..... > > Innova Papers are about 1/3 the price of the HPR. Supposedly, some > people from Hahnemuhle formed Innova, so the weight is similar. The > Fiba-print and Smooth Cotton papers are acid free and have about the > same Dmax as HPR. I have just run a few Dmax tests, but haven't > built any profiles or done any prints yet. www.shadesofpaper.com has > a sampler pack with two sheets each of 4 different Innova papers, if > you are interested. Included in the sampler are Cold Press Art and > Soft Textured Art papers, but of which are much more textured. I > didn't see any mention of optical brighteners in any of the > litereature, so you will probably have to ask Jim Doyle at Shades of > Paper if they have any. > > Another good paper at a reasonable price is Moab Entrada. These > papers are reasonably priced and coated on both sides. The Bright > White has optical Brighteners, but the Natural has none at all. Both > are acid free. I have lots of nice prints on both. Moab papers had > some paper dust problems initially, but they responded to complaints > and are doing a good job now of shipping dust free product. > > Crane Museo II is a gorgeous, heavy paper (365 gsm), but has more > texture than the ones mentioned above, more like the textured Innova > papers. It is more expensive than the above papers, but less than > HPR. Museo II is coated on both sides and the quality is superb. > Dmax is comparable to HPR from what I have seen in my tests. > > Epson Velvet Fine Art is also a wonderful archival paper. It has the > best Dmax of any paper I have personally used so far (with UC-MK > inkset), but is a little pricey. Sheet sizes are limited, but > available in 13x19. One of my favorites. > > Epson Enhanced Matte is also a great performer, but is not acid > free. Many have commented on yellowing, but I haven't seen any in my > EEM prints (so far). I use a fair amount of it, but not for prints I > would sell. It's not worth the risk to me. Probably one of the best > performers, right behind VFA. Actually, I was testing the Innova > papers looking for an acid-free archival EEM substitute that is > reasonably priced. They are nice papers but don't have quite as good > a Dmax in my testing so far. The smooth cotton and fiba-print are > contenders with a similar smooth finish but heavier than EEM. > > All the papers above are available in sheets, and many in rolls. I > use them with both my 2200 and my 4000 with the UC inkset. I have > also used some of them with MIS UT-7 inks in my 2200 and they perform > well. FWIW, the 4000 driver seems a little weak on matte papers, but > QTR (with standard UC inks) can hit higher Dmax levels than the > driver. I suspect the 4000 driver was set a little conservatively > for matte papers, but Epson will never admit it. The fact that I can > get the 4000 to reach higher Dmax levels using QTR with UC inks tends > to support this contention, so it isn't the printer itself. This > doesn't seem to be an issue with glossy, semigloss or luster media. > I haven't had this issue with the 2200 and the 2200 driver, which > seem to perform well with the standard UC inkset on matte papers. > > Hope this provides some food for thought. > > Lou > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "sagaface" > <sagaface@y...> wrote: > > > > I have read with great interest Clayton's article on papers but > wondered what some of you > > are gravitating towards, specifically, what are you all printing on > for sale or exhibition? I > > like HPR's characterisitcs...all except the price and the flaking. > Ultrasmooth sounds > > promising but I'm on a 2200 and would like sheets. > > > > Anyone? > > > > Sarah > > >
2005-12-31 by Paul Roark
> Paul, which Innova were you refering to with Eboni? Photo Smooth Rag? That is probably the best, in my view. One of my favorite papers is PermaJet Alpha. This uses an Innova coating with no OBAs on a smooth cotton substrate. I'd originally thought the Innova Soft Texture was essentially the same, but in recent tests the alpha cellulose Innova papers (Soft Texture and Fiba Print) have been less smooth than the cotton ones. > Would you > personally rate this paper high in terms of fade > resistance/discoloration/stability et. al? Assuming it's similar to Alpha (and that is probably a valid assumption), it would probably be just behind Premier Art in stability. That's rather good. Since it does have some OBAs in it (unlike Premier Art) there will be some yellowing of the paper, but it'd be rather minor. Innova papers are not overdone in this respect. They tend to be quite neutral when brightened. > I need to start testing some new papers but want to narrow the field > considerably due to budget constraints. Premier Art had some bad press here a few weeks ago regarding quality control. I have not had that problem, but don't doubt it. Nonetheless, I'd recommend you test some of the PremierArt Fine Art Hot Press. I like the 205, in part because it is cheap, has no OBAs, and is very stable. To limit the papers I test, I draw the line at a matte dmax of 1.60. So, as soon as I find that the paper doesn't hit that, the paper is no longer in the game. That eliminates a very large number of matte papers. On a 2200 with the Epson driver, even Moab and Premier Art might not make the cut. Paul www.PaulRoark.com
2005-12-31 by sagaface
I can't seem to find Permajet's US distributor. Where are you purchasing yours? And I have to say that the idea of any yellowing however minimal isn't good. I've seen what happens to EEM and it isn't pretty. Is this purely a result of the OBA's? Do you use any of the sprays available? Well, I am definitely going to order some of the Innova and a sampler of the Premier. If I can find the Permajet I'll give them a whirl, too. "On a 2200 with the Epson driver, even Moab and Premier Art might not make the cut."...Santa didn't bring me the 4800 I asked for so I'm stuck for now. ;^) Paul, you've been a great help...thanks. Sarah --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark" <paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> > > Paul, which Innova were you refering to with Eboni? Photo Smooth Rag? > > That is probably the best, in my view. One of my favorite papers is > PermaJet Alpha. This uses an Innova coating with no OBAs on a smooth cotton > substrate. I'd originally thought the Innova Soft Texture was essentially > the same, but in recent tests the alpha cellulose Innova papers (Soft > Texture and Fiba Print) have been less smooth than the cotton ones. > > > Would you > > personally rate this paper high in terms of fade > > resistance/discoloration/stability et. al? > > Assuming it's similar to Alpha (and that is probably a valid assumption), it > would probably be just behind Premier Art in stability. That's rather good. > Since it does have some OBAs in it (unlike Premier Art) there will be some > yellowing of the paper, but it'd be rather minor. Innova papers are not > overdone in this respect. They tend to be quite neutral when brightened. > > > I need to start testing some new papers but want to narrow the field > > considerably due to budget constraints. > > Premier Art had some bad press here a few weeks ago regarding quality > control. I have not had that problem, but don't doubt it. Nonetheless, I'd > recommend you test some of the PremierArt Fine Art Hot Press. I like the > 205, in part because it is cheap, has no OBAs, and is very stable. > > To limit the papers I test, I draw the line at a matte dmax of 1.60. So, as > soon as I find that the paper doesn't hit that, the paper is no longer in > the game. That eliminates a very large number of matte papers. On a 2200 > with the Epson driver, even Moab and Premier Art might not make the cut. > > Paul > www.PaulRoark.com >
2005-12-31 by Paul Roark
> > I can't seem to find Permajet's US distributor. That's the problem. Jobo was it, was clueless about how to market the paper, and went bust. > Where are you purchasing yours? I'm not any more -- looking for an alternative just like you. Premier Art is at the top of my list for now, but I have enough Alpha to last me for a while longer. > And I have to say that the idea of any yellowing however minimal isn't > good. I've seen what > happens to EEM and it isn't pretty. Is this purely a result of the OBA's? > Do you use any of the sprays available? I don't like any OBAs. That's another reason Premier Art is on top. I also have some Epson UltraSmooth, but it's expensive and only in rolls. > "On a 2200 with the Epson driver, even Moab and Premier Art might not make > the cut." >...Santa didn't bring me the 4800 I asked for so I'm stuck for now. > ;^) I resorted to a rip for the 7600, even though I prefer the Epson driver. The matte dmax was just too low. See if Moab Natural or Premier Art have a good enough dmax for you. Innova will probably be OK, but it'll have some OBAs and is, I believe, more expensive. Paul www.PaulRoark.com
2005-12-31 by john dean
I have used Hahnemuhle Photo Rag for about 6 years steadily and now have replaced it completely with Innova Smooth Cotton that I buy from shades of paper.com. This media has been the most trouble free paper I've used for both monochrome and color, with tonal renditon, great blacks, great color gamut, and a very tough and consistent coating. It also comes in longer rolls than Hahnemuhle at a lower per roll cost. It is now available in dual sided for book work. I just don't think you can beat it for a great general fine art photo paper. If you haven't tried it, you should. John
2005-12-31 by Diana York~Hawk Mtn Papers
Was hoping Clayton or one of our other customers would step up, but I guess many are still away for the holidays. I think we are mentioned quite often on this forum (and not always be me <VBG>). We are not exactly new to the world of coated inkjet papers as we have been in business since 1997 (starting with uncoated papers). We are involved from beginning to end with the production of our papers, and take QC and customer satisfaction very seriously. Happy New Year To ALL! Diana York 888-807-2248 Hawk Mountain Papers www.hawkmtnartpapers.com
----- Original Message ----- From: sagaface To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, December 30, 2005 7:29 PM Subject: [Digital BW] Re: HPR alternative? Many interesting and informative comments, thank you all. I noticed no one mentioned Hawk Mountain or Red River papers. Too new? Too small to control quality? Curious. <snip> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2005-12-31 by Jim Doyle
Yes Diana And The Gang Have been Involved.. You should Try Their papers.. They have been a big part of this list for sure!! Happy New year To All Jim Doyle http//:www.shadesofpaper.com (Remote Location Finally a break)
-----Original Message-----
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Diana
York~Hawk Mtn Papers
Sent: Friday, December 30, 2005 11:24 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: HPR alternative?
Was hoping Clayton or one of our other customers would step up, but I
guess many are still away for the holidays.
I think we are mentioned quite often on this forum (and not always be me
<VBG>). We are not exactly new to the world of coated inkjet papers as we
have been in business since 1997 (starting with uncoated papers).
We are involved from beginning to end with the production of our papers,
and take QC and customer satisfaction very seriously.
Happy New Year To ALL!
Diana York 888-807-2248
Hawk Mountain Papers
www.hawkmtnartpapers.com
----- Original Message -----
From: sagaface
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, December 30, 2005 7:29 PM
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: HPR alternative?
Many interesting and informative comments, thank you all. I noticed no
one mentioned
Hawk Mountain or Red River papers. Too new? Too small to control
quality? Curious. <snip>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]2005-12-31 by wwodets
Sarah, I think others have mostly answered your questions--and you have to try these papers out for yourself. But I would add a little: the dmax of the VFA is the best (of the matte papers with K3) and a dmax difference of .05 is quite visible, and a difference of .10 is a completely different class of paper. The VFA is pushing 1.8, unique among the matte papers with K3 inks. I, too, don't want texture, but the texture of the VFA does not obscure detail. It is apparent only if the angle of the light illuminating the print is acute. This effect is no more apparent (probably less) than the obscuration that results from the sheen of a "glossy matte dried" silver print at the wrong angle. After working with 15 or 20 papers, I find the Epson Ultra Smooth Fine Art my first choice. Both of these papers are of very high quality and consistency, much better in this regard than anything else I have tried. (The HPR that so many people love I have found only good by comparison, though they have a "famous" name. The USFA is also of better quality and consistency.) The advantage of the USFA over VFA is not only the smoothness of the surface, but the lack of OBAs (brighteners), which I suspect are a liability over the long term. Purely for *the image* in the present, the VFA is the standout for me. So I'm still divided on these two papers. With different inks (not the K3s) one would have a different experience. Walt --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "sagaface" <sagaface@y...> wrote: > > Lou, thanks for your comments. I had not heard much about Museo and it seems like > some of the heavy-weight, textured papers do have higher Dmax than others (is that due > to the optics of looking at the ink on textured surfaces? I thought it was supposed to be > glossy papers that gave more of an illusion of higher Dmax due to relfectance.....it's all > somehwat convoluted to me), which is a drag becuase I don't want texture. I also don't > want to get too hung up on micro-fine Dmax distinctions, but having said that it is still > important as there is so much deep black in my images. > > I guess there is no such thing as a perfect paper, just ones that do the job better than > others, depending on what that job is and what tools you're using. I can't believe how > much $$ I have spent on ink and paper! > > Thanks again, > Sarah > > > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Louis Dina" <lbdina@c...> wrote: > > > > Sarah, > > > > Some possibilities..... > > > > Innova Papers are about 1/3 the price of the HPR. Supposedly, some > > people from Hahnemuhle formed Innova, so the weight is similar. The > > Fiba-print and Smooth Cotton papers are acid free and have about the > > same Dmax as HPR. I have just run a few Dmax tests, but haven't > > built any profiles or done any prints yet. www.shadesofpaper.com has > > a sampler pack with two sheets each of 4 different Innova papers, if > > you are interested. Included in the sampler are Cold Press Art and > > Soft Textured Art papers, but of which are much more textured. I > > didn't see any mention of optical brighteners in any of the > > litereature, so you will probably have to ask Jim Doyle at Shades of > > Paper if they have any. > > > > Another good paper at a reasonable price is Moab Entrada. These > > papers are reasonably priced and coated on both sides. The Bright > > White has optical Brighteners, but the Natural has none at all. Both > > are acid free. I have lots of nice prints on both. Moab papers had > > some paper dust problems initially, but they responded to complaints > > and are doing a good job now of shipping dust free product. > > > > Crane Museo II is a gorgeous, heavy paper (365 gsm), but has more > > texture than the ones mentioned above, more like the textured Innova > > papers. It is more expensive than the above papers, but less than > > HPR. Museo II is coated on both sides and the quality is superb. > > Dmax is comparable to HPR from what I have seen in my tests. > > > > Epson Velvet Fine Art is also a wonderful archival paper. It has the > > best Dmax of any paper I have personally used so far (with UC-MK > > inkset), but is a little pricey. Sheet sizes are limited, but > > available in 13x19. One of my favorites. > > > > Epson Enhanced Matte is also a great performer, but is not acid > > free. Many have commented on yellowing, but I haven't seen any in my > > EEM prints (so far). I use a fair amount of it, but not for prints I > > would sell. It's not worth the risk to me. Probably one of the best > > performers, right behind VFA. Actually, I was testing the Innova > > papers looking for an acid-free archival EEM substitute that is > > reasonably priced. They are nice papers but don't have quite as good > > a Dmax in my testing so far. The smooth cotton and fiba-print are > > contenders with a similar smooth finish but heavier than EEM. > > > > All the papers above are available in sheets, and many in rolls. I > > use them with both my 2200 and my 4000 with the UC inkset. I have > > also used some of them with MIS UT-7 inks in my 2200 and they perform > > well. FWIW, the 4000 driver seems a little weak on matte papers, but > > QTR (with standard UC inks) can hit higher Dmax levels than the > > driver. I suspect the 4000 driver was set a little conservatively > > for matte papers, but Epson will never admit it. The fact that I can > > get the 4000 to reach higher Dmax levels using QTR with UC inks tends > > to support this contention, so it isn't the printer itself. This > > doesn't seem to be an issue with glossy, semigloss or luster media. > > I haven't had this issue with the 2200 and the 2200 driver, which > > seem to perform well with the standard UC inkset on matte papers. > > > > Hope this provides some food for thought. > > > > Lou > > > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "sagaface" > > <sagaface@y...> wrote: > > > > > > I have read with great interest Clayton's article on papers but > > wondered what some of you > > > are gravitating towards, specifically, what are you all printing on > > for sale or exhibition? I > > > like HPR's characterisitcs...all except the price and the flaking.
> > Ultrasmooth sounds > > > promising but I'm on a 2200 and would like sheets. > > > > > > Anyone? > > > > > > Sarah > > > > > >
2005-12-31 by Clayton Jones
Hello Sarah, >Hawk Mountain or Red River papers. Both have excellent papers, many of which you may have seen in the "Great Paper Chase" review. Don't overlook Red River's Dourian Art. It is nearly indistinguishable from PhotoRag and is double sided, so work prints can be reused which significantly lowers cost in the long run. This has replaced PR for me because of that. It's dmax is one of the best, and it looks great with Eboni BO. Since you are using Eboni BO a lot, the ink color and dmax values listed in the Paper Chase chart are especially relevent because that's what was used for the tests. I recommend keeping several papers on hand, especially with BO, because different images will look better on different papers. Hawk Mtn's Condor BW and Merlin Smooth are great for cooler tones. Both have excellent dmax, though not as good as Dourian and VFA (but they are warmer toned). Condor BW, Merlin Smooth and Dourian are my favorite BO papers, but I'm using more VFA for my 2400/K3 prints because K3 on VFA has better dmax than Dourian and somehow is a really pleasing color match. For some reason I have trouble getting a satisfying color tone with K3 on Dourian/PR. K3 is also excellent on Condor and Merlin for cooler tone prints. I'm also very impressed with Museo Max because it is so physically tough. It's nearly impossible to scrape it off with a thumbnail (Steve Karafyllakis can vouch for that, he tried it the other day). Unfortunately it's dmax (4.2 in Paper Chase units) is not quite as good as Dourian and VFA (5), but it's still excellent, being between Condor/Merlin (4.0) and the Innova papers (4.5). I'd use it for a book because it's so tough. It's a handsome paper as well. There are lots of good choices. You just have to decide from among the mix of attributes: paper color, ink tone, dmax, OBA content, thickness, texture, cotton vs AC...sounds like the old 31-Flavors ice cream ads :) Regards, Clayton Info on black and white digital printing at http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm
2005-12-31 by Clayton Jones
Hello Walt, >...the dmax of the VFA is the best (of the matte papers with K3) >...the HPR that so many people love I have found only good by >comparison, Same here. With eboni BO (and other Eboni based inks sets) HPR is gorgeous. But with K3 not only is its dmax a tad lower, but I find it difficult to get a satisfying color tone. Do you find that? >the texture of the VFA does not obscure detail. Also agreed. I was doubtful of it at first, but soon realized it doesn't affect the print the way some other textured papers do. The "crevices" between the bumps don't go very deep. Nice stuff. Regards, Clayton Info on black and white digital printing at http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm
2005-12-31 by Steve Kale
I think you will find that the Innova "version" of Permajet Alpha will be available soon in the US - check with Jim Doyle. Innova's photo smooth bright white cotton paper is exactly the same paper as Permajet Omega. (Perhaps a fractionally different weight.) Alpha is a warmer paper with essentially the same texture. Epson MK doesn't perform well with these papers - Eboni is better. However, none can provide the dMax of Epson MK on EVFA. (BTW I also believe that this same paper is that marketed under the Eterna brand here in the UK by Mandev. Holding the 4 sheets side by side (Alpha, Omega and the two corresponding Eterna papers) I could not distinguish between the two pairs. But then you never know. The murky world of paper distribution....I prefer HPR rolls at the cheap US price.)
> From: Paul Roark <paul.roark@...> > Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> > Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 19:17:52 -0800 > To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Re: HPR alternative? > >> >> I can't seem to find Permajet's US distributor. > > That's the problem. Jobo was it, was clueless about how to market the > paper, and went bust. > >> Where are you purchasing yours? > > I'm not any more -- looking for an alternative just like you. Premier Art > is at the top of my list for now, but I have enough Alpha to last me for a > while longer. > > >> And I have to say that the idea of any yellowing however minimal isn't >> good. I've seen what >> happens to EEM and it isn't pretty. Is this purely a result of the OBA's? >> Do you use any of the sprays available? > > I don't like any OBAs. That's another reason Premier Art is on top. I also > have some Epson UltraSmooth, but it's expensive and only in rolls. > >> "On a 2200 with the Epson driver, even Moab and Premier Art might not make >> the cut." > >> ...Santa didn't bring me the 4800 I asked for so I'm stuck for now. >> ;^) > > I resorted to a rip for the 7600, even though I prefer the Epson driver. > The matte dmax was just too low. See if Moab Natural or Premier Art have a > good enough dmax for you. Innova will probably be OK, but it'll have some > OBAs and is, I believe, more expensive. > > Paul > www.PaulRoark.com > >
2005-12-31 by Bob Michaels
Hawk Mountain is my main paper supplier because of their quality and consistency. And the prices are very fair. A big plus is that they are friendly and easy to work with. This is important because I do this for personal enjoyment, not financial reward. M-F 8-5, economics dictate who I do business with. But on my own time, I get to pick just nice people. Bob Michaels --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Diana York~Hawk Mtn Papers" <diana@h...> wrote: > > Was hoping Clayton or one of our other customers would step up, but I guess many are still away for the holidays. > I think we are mentioned quite often on this forum (and not always be me <VBG>). We are not exactly new to the world of coated inkjet papers as we have been in business since 1997 (starting with uncoated papers). > We are involved from beginning to end with the production of our papers, and take QC and customer satisfaction very seriously.
> Happy New Year To ALL! > Diana York 888-807-2248 > Hawk Mountain Papers > www.hawkmtnartpapers.com >
2005-12-31 by Elwood Spedden
--- Paul Roark <paul.roark@...> wrote:
---------------------------------
>
I don't like any OBAs. That's another reason Premier
Art is on top. I also
have some Epson UltraSmooth, but it's expensive and
only in rolls.
Paul
www.PaulRoark.com
Paul
USFA is also available in 17" sheets. I use it with my
7600 and have great results. Unfortunately it is
expensive so you have to proof on something else, such
as eem.
Woody
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---------------------------------2005-12-31 by wwodets
Clayton- Yes I find the HPR/K3 tonal scale a bit homely with the K3--very flat in the mid range, so this goes beyond a color problem for me. A lab here in S.F. is doing a lot of printing with a 9800 and the manager told me that people want HPR all the time--until they see the print. Then they want USFA. On the VFA texture, there is something very odd about it: if you compare the unprinted area (of the printable side) with areas that have ink on them, the area under the ink appears much smoother. So, I think that a lot of the texture is in the coating (not the paper) and that the ink levels the coating--or perhaps just fills it in. Thus the apparent lack of detail loss. Look under a loupe and let me know if you notice the same thing. I first noticed this when an astute photographer friend asked how I got paper texture "only in the margin of the print." The OBAs in the VFA still bother me and I guess I'm going to have to do some tests. If over time they simply return the paper to its natural color, that would be fine. If the OBAs actually yellow, that would not. Best, Walt --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Clayton Jones" <cj@c...> wrote: > > Hello Walt, > > >...the dmax of the VFA is the best (of the matte papers with K3) > >...the HPR that so many people love I have found only good by > >comparison, > > Same here. With eboni BO (and other Eboni based inks sets) HPR is > gorgeous. But with K3 not only is its dmax a tad lower, but I find it
> difficult to get a satisfying color tone. Do you find that? > > > >the texture of the VFA does not obscure detail. > > Also agreed. I was doubtful of it at first, but soon realized it > doesn't affect the print the way some other textured papers do. The > "crevices" between the bumps don't go very deep. Nice stuff. > > > Regards, > Clayton > > > Info on black and white digital printing at > http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm >
2005-12-31 by Clayton Jones
Hello Walt, >A lab here in S.F. is doing a lot of printing with a 9800 and the >manager told me that people want HPR all the time--until they see >the print. Interesting. Glad to know it's not my imagination. >On the VFA texture, there is something very odd about it: if you >compare the unprinted area (of the printable side) with areas that >have ink on them, the area under the ink appears much smoother. >So, I think that a lot of the texture is in the coating (not the >paper) and that the ink levels the coating--or perhaps just fills >it in. Thus the apparent lack of detail loss. Look under a loupe >and let me know if you notice the same thing. I first noticed this >when an astute photographer friend asked how I got paper texture >"only in the margin of the print." It certainly looks that way to the eye. Under a loupe I can still see the texture but it _is_ filled in somewhat, more so in the darker areas. The texture is most visible with light from an angle, which increases the shadows caused by the little ridges. The dark inked areas seem to reduce the shadowing. When compared with Max under a loupe, the crevices or valleys in the texture are much deeper in Max than VFA, so it makes sense they could fill in, or perhaps swell... I have an image on both papers here, with a real smooth Zone III area, and the Max texture affects it but the VFA doesn't. Also the VFA dmax is noticeably better than the Max. >The OBAs in the VFA still bother me and I guess I'm going to have >to do some tests. If over time they simply return the paper to >its natural color, that would be fine. If the OBAs actually >yellow, that would not. I'm not so bothered by this, mainly because I've seen no real evidence of a problem - only opinions and hearsay. Also, I've got OBA silver prints from 20 years ago (Oriental Seagull, etc) that are still bright and white. The only evidence in my own experience is I've seen Condor BW prints, hanging around for months unprotected under fluorescent and daylight, lose a tiny bit of brightness, barely noticeable, compared to a new sheet from the box. But it isn't less white, or yellowed, or in any way changed unevenly. Regards, Clayton Info on black and white digital printing at http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm
2005-12-31 by helen_bach2003
Sarah, Just agreeing with a lot that's already been said. I offer samples of a number of papers including HPR308, Epson Ultrasmooth FA, Epson Velvet FA, Innova Smooth Cotton, Moab Entrada BW and N, and Hawk Mtn Merlin Photo, all with Ultrachrome MK as the black ink and with custom profiles made to the best of my ability. My favourite among these matte papers, and the most popular with the people I print for, is now the Ultrasmooth - it had been HPR until I started to offer USFA. The Velvet just beats it on D-Max (but not by much, and 1.7 isn't bad anyway) but the surface texture looks like an affectation (just my opinion) and a distraction. The other papers are all good, but don't quite match the Ultrasmooth in terms of D-Max. Ultrasmooth in sheets (13 x 19 is available) is double sided, so if you proof on it you could use both sides - that's what I do. Best, Helen --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "sagaface" <sagaface@y...> wrote: > > I have read with great interest Clayton's article on papers but wondered what some of you > are gravitating towards, specifically, what are you all printing on for sale or exhibition? I > like HPR's characterisitcs...all except the price and the flaking. Ultrasmooth sounds
> promising but I'm on a 2200 and would like sheets. > > Anyone? > > Sarah >
2005-12-31 by Greg
One thing to note is that in another thread she said that she will be using Eboni, so the dmax of the USFA with Epson ink is not so important.
2005-12-31 by joshhackney
John, I recently ordered from Jim at shades of paper too and was very please. Great guy. Question for you about Innova PSC. I just recently started using it in 24" rolls. I've had A LOT of little paper bits on both edges of the roll. How have you found Innova's cut quality? I recall someone else asking about this a few months ago. I seem to have a higher number of dark particles embedded within the paper too. I'm curious if guys like you and Tyler, who go through a lot more of this paper than I do have seen these issues. Best. Josh --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "john dean" <deanwork2003@y...> wrote:
> > I have used Hahnemuhle Photo Rag for about 6 years steadily and now > have replaced it completely with Innova Smooth Cotton that I buy from > shades of paper.com. This media has been the most trouble free paper > I've used for both monochrome and color, with tonal renditon, great > blacks, great color gamut, and a very tough and consistent coating. It > also comes in longer rolls than Hahnemuhle at a lower per roll cost. > It is now available in dual sided for book work. I just don't think > you can beat it for a great general fine art photo paper. If you > haven't tried it, you should. > > John >
2005-12-31 by joshhackney
USFA is available in 13" sheets too. You guys know that the USFA sheets are double sided, right? The rolls are the only thing that is single sided. Saves a little money when proofing. Best. Josh --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Elwood Spedden <elwood@w...> wrote:
> > USFA is also available in 17" sheets. I use it with my > 7600 and have great results. Unfortunately it is > expensive so you have to proof on something else, such > as eem. > > Woody >
2005-12-31 by Tyler Boley
Josh, as Jim could tell you, I have gone through very little of this paper. I'll bet Jim knows more about how much of which paper who is using all over the country than anyone else. I intend to use less and less PhotoRag, and more of this. But lately people have been asking me to print on the more textured papers and I've gone through very little HPR or PSC, not enough to order much more. I did notice some dark flecks in a box of 17x22 PSC recently, and let Jim know. This is a new company and if we want them to do well and keep making us good papers it's important to give them feedback, even if it ruins their day. Tyler PS- Jim, PICK ONE!!! --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "joshhackney" <joshhackney@g...> wrote: > > > John, > > I recently ordered from Jim at shades of paper too and was very please. Great guy. > > Question for you about Innova PSC. I just recently started using it in 24" rolls. I've had A
> LOT of little paper bits on both edges of the roll. How have you found Innova's cut > quality? I recall someone else asking about this a few months ago. I seem to have a > higher number of dark particles embedded within the paper too. I'm curious if guys like > you and Tyler, who go through a lot more of this paper than I do have seen these issues. > > Best. > > Josh > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "john dean" > <deanwork2003@y...> wrote: > > > > I have used Hahnemuhle Photo Rag for about 6 years steadily and now > > have replaced it completely with Innova Smooth Cotton that I buy from > > shades of paper.com. This media has been the most trouble free paper > > I've used for both monochrome and color, with tonal renditon, great > > blacks, great color gamut, and a very tough and consistent coating. It > > also comes in longer rolls than Hahnemuhle at a lower per roll cost. > > It is now available in dual sided for book work. I just don't think > > you can beat it for a great general fine art photo paper. If you > > haven't tried it, you should. > > > > John > > >
2005-12-31 by sagaface
Josh, I just found some 13' sheets....20 sheets for $112! Yikes. I really want to try this stuff, but not at that price. Even double-sided. Why so limited in sizes and so expensive? Sarah --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "joshhackney" <joshhackney@g...> wrote: > > > USFA is available in 13" sheets too. You guys know that the USFA sheets are double sided, > right? The rolls are the only thing that is single sided. Saves a little money when proofing. > > Best. > > Josh > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Elwood Spedden <elwood@w...>
> wrote: > > > > USFA is also available in 17" sheets. I use it with my > > 7600 and have great results. Unfortunately it is > > expensive so you have to proof on something else, such > > as eem. > > > > Woody > > >
2005-12-31 by sagaface
Helen, I am really leaning towards the Ultrasmooth. I wish it came in smaller sheets but I guess I can just print multiples on the 13X19. Not my favorite thing to do, however. where are you purchasing your USFA? Seems really expensive... Thanks for your comments...everything helps! Sarah --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "helen_bach2003" <helenbach@h...> wrote:
> > Sarah, > > Just agreeing with a lot that's already been said. I offer samples of > a number of papers including HPR308, Epson Ultrasmooth FA, Epson > Velvet FA, Innova Smooth Cotton, Moab Entrada BW and N, and Hawk Mtn > Merlin Photo, all with Ultrachrome MK as the black ink and with > custom profiles made to the best of my ability. My favourite among > these matte papers, and the most popular with the people I print for, > is now the Ultrasmooth - it had been HPR until I started to offer > USFA. The Velvet just beats it on D-Max (but not by much, and 1.7 > isn't bad anyway) but the surface texture looks like an affectation > (just my opinion) and a distraction. The other papers are all good, > but don't quite match the Ultrasmooth in terms of D-Max. > > Ultrasmooth in sheets (13 x 19 is available) is double sided, so if > you proof on it you could use both sides - that's what I do. > > Best, > Helen > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "sagaface" > <sagaface@y...> wrote: > > > > I have read with great interest Clayton's article on papers but > wondered what some of you > > are gravitating towards, specifically, what are you all printing on > for sale or exhibition? I > > like HPR's characterisitcs...all except the price and the flaking. > Ultrasmooth sounds > > promising but I'm on a 2200 and would like sheets. > > > > Anyone? > > > > Sarah > > >
2005-12-31 by sagaface
Greg, that's right. Thanks for mentioning it. Overall, I have to thank you all for the in-depth comments about what you all use and why....the comments here have been extremely helpful in guiding some of my choices of papers to try. Sarah --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Greg" <dfaprinting@y...> wrote:
> > One thing to note is that in another thread she said that she will be > using Eboni, so the dmax of the USFA with Epson ink is not so > important. >
2005-12-31 by Louis Dina
Sarah, Atlex sells USFA, 25 sheets of 13X19 paper for $89. They also carry 17X22 paper, which conveniently cuts down to (4) 8.5X11 sheets. Lou --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "sagaface" <sagaface@y...> wrote: > > Helen, I am really leaning towards the Ultrasmooth. I wish it came in smaller sheets but I > guess I can just print multiples on the 13X19. Not my favorite thing to do, however. where > are you purchasing your USFA? Seems really expensive... > > Thanks for your comments...everything helps! > > Sarah > > > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "helen_bach2003" > <helenbach@h...> wrote: > > > > Sarah, > > > > Just agreeing with a lot that's already been said. I offer samples of > > a number of papers including HPR308, Epson Ultrasmooth FA, Epson > > Velvet FA, Innova Smooth Cotton, Moab Entrada BW and N, and Hawk Mtn > > Merlin Photo, all with Ultrachrome MK as the black ink and with > > custom profiles made to the best of my ability. My favourite among > > these matte papers, and the most popular with the people I print for, > > is now the Ultrasmooth - it had been HPR until I started to offer > > USFA. The Velvet just beats it on D-Max (but not by much, and 1.7 > > isn't bad anyway) but the surface texture looks like an affectation > > (just my opinion) and a distraction. The other papers are all good, > > but don't quite match the Ultrasmooth in terms of D-Max. > > > > Ultrasmooth in sheets (13 x 19 is available) is double sided, so if > > you proof on it you could use both sides - that's what I do. > > > > Best, > > Helen > > > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "sagaface" > > <sagaface@y...> wrote: > > > > > > I have read with great interest Clayton's article on papers but > > wondered what some of you > > > are gravitating towards, specifically, what are you all printing on > > for sale or exhibition? I > > > like HPR's characterisitcs...all except the price and the flaking.
> > Ultrasmooth sounds > > > promising but I'm on a 2200 and would like sheets. > > > > > > Anyone? > > > > > > Sarah > > > > > >
2005-12-31 by sagaface
Better than the $112 I found...thanks, Lou! Sarah --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Louis Dina" <lbdina@c...> wrote:
> > Sarah, Atlex sells USFA, 25 sheets of 13X19 paper for $89. They also > carry 17X22 paper, which conveniently cuts down to (4) 8.5X11 sheets. > > Lou > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "sagaface" > <sagaface@y...> wrote: > > > > Helen, I am really leaning towards the Ultrasmooth. I wish it came > in smaller sheets but I > > guess I can just print multiples on the 13X19. Not my favorite > thing to do, however. where > > are you purchasing your USFA? Seems really expensive... > > > > Thanks for your comments...everything helps! > > > > Sarah > > > > > > > > --- In > DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "helen_bach2003" > > <helenbach@h...> wrote: > > > > > > Sarah, > > > > > > Just agreeing with a lot that's already been said. I offer > samples of > > > a number of papers including HPR308, Epson Ultrasmooth FA, Epson > > > Velvet FA, Innova Smooth Cotton, Moab Entrada BW and N, and Hawk > Mtn > > > Merlin Photo, all with Ultrachrome MK as the black ink and with > > > custom profiles made to the best of my ability. My favourite > among > > > these matte papers, and the most popular with the people I print > for, > > > is now the Ultrasmooth - it had been HPR until I started to offer > > > USFA. The Velvet just beats it on D-Max (but not by much, and 1.7 > > > isn't bad anyway) but the surface texture looks like an > affectation > > > (just my opinion) and a distraction. The other papers are all > good, > > > but don't quite match the Ultrasmooth in terms of D-Max. > > > > > > Ultrasmooth in sheets (13 x 19 is available) is double sided, so > if > > > you proof on it you could use both sides - that's what I do. > > > > > > Best, > > > Helen > > > > > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "sagaface" > > > <sagaface@y...> wrote: > > > > > > > > I have read with great interest Clayton's article on papers but > > > wondered what some of you > > > > are gravitating towards, specifically, what are you all > printing on > > > for sale or exhibition? I > > > > like HPR's characterisitcs...all except the price and the > flaking. > > > Ultrasmooth sounds > > > > promising but I'm on a 2200 and would like sheets. > > > > > > > > Anyone? > > > > > > > > Sarah > > > > > > > > > >
2006-01-01 by Jim Doyle
Josh I Noticed that To On A Batch That i got.. I believe that the Blade was no real sharp on the converting..I recently ( Last week) Tried a different Lot # and all was fine.. Give me a call and well see if the codes match.. Happy New year Cheers Jim Doyle http://www.shadesofpaper.com
-----Original Message-----
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
joshhackney
Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2005 2:50 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Innova PSC - was HPR alternative?
John,
I recently ordered from Jim at shades of paper too and was very please.
Great guy.
Question for you about Innova PSC. I just recently started using it in
24" rolls. I've had A
LOT of little paper bits on both edges of the roll. How have you found
Innova's cut
quality? I recall someone else asking about this a few months ago. I
seem to have a
higher number of dark particles embedded within the paper too. I'm
curious if guys like
you and Tyler, who go through a lot more of this paper than I do have seen
these issues.
Best.
Josh
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "john dean"
<deanwork2003@y...> wrote:
>
> I have used Hahnemuhle Photo Rag for about 6 years steadily and now
> have replaced it completely with Innova Smooth Cotton that I buy from
> shades of paper.com. This media has been the most trouble free paper
> I've used for both monochrome and color, with tonal renditon, great
> blacks, great color gamut, and a very tough and consistent coating. It
> also comes in longer rolls than Hahnemuhle at a lower per roll cost.
> It is now available in dual sided for book work. I just don't think
> you can beat it for a great general fine art photo paper. If you
> haven't tried it, you should.
>
> John
>
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MODERATORS OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE
POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY
TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR
ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]2006-01-01 by Jim Doyle
TB Thats why I Love You and The Crew.. We MySelf Included want nothing but the best.. Thats what we all pay for:) So You guys & gals demand It from Me So Thats My JOB To DEMAND it from the manufacture that I represent!! All comments to me are welcome because I enjoy taking the feedback back to the manufactures.. This has made me successful along with thye support of many in this group! Happy New year To All Jim Doyle http://www.shadesofpaper.com 856-424-8660 PS Tyler I Have My WIfe Looking again as i write this.. She Cant Make Up here Mind.. Three are in the running:)
-----Original Message-----
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Tyler
Boley
Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2005 4:39 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Innova PSC - was HPR alternative?
Josh, as Jim could tell you, I have gone through very little of this
paper. I'll bet Jim knows
more about how much of which paper who is using all over the country than
anyone else.
I intend to use less and less PhotoRag, and more of this. But lately
people have been
asking me to print on the more textured papers and I've gone through very
little HPR or
PSC, not enough to order much more.
I did notice some dark flecks in a box of 17x22 PSC recently, and let Jim
know. This is a
new company and if we want them to do well and keep making us good papers
it's
important to give them feedback, even if it ruins their day.
Tyler
PS- Jim, PICK ONE!!!
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "joshhackney"
<joshhackney@g...> wrote:
>
>
> John,
>
> I recently ordered from Jim at shades of paper too and was very please.
Great guy.
>
> Question for you about Innova PSC. I just recently started using it in
24" rolls. I've had
A
> LOT of little paper bits on both edges of the roll. How have you found
Innova's cut
> quality? I recall someone else asking about this a few months ago. I
seem to have a
> higher number of dark particles embedded within the paper too. I'm
curious if guys like
> you and Tyler, who go through a lot more of this paper than I do have
seen these issues.
>
> Best.
>
> Josh
>
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "john dean"
> <deanwork2003@y...> wrote:
> >
> > I have used Hahnemuhle Photo Rag for about 6 years steadily and now
> > have replaced it completely with Innova Smooth Cotton that I buy from
> > shades of paper.com. This media has been the most trouble free paper
> > I've used for both monochrome and color, with tonal renditon, great
> > blacks, great color gamut, and a very tough and consistent coating. It
> > also comes in longer rolls than Hahnemuhle at a lower per roll cost.
> > It is now available in dual sided for book work. I just don't think
> > you can beat it for a great general fine art photo paper. If you
> > haven't tried it, you should.
> >
> > John
> >
>
Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
they are often being updated.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
page.
Please follow these basic guidelines:
- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
membership without notice.
- Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from
the membership.
- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and
Moderators. See Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines in the Files section:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE OWNER AND
MODERATORS OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU
FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY
DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS,
GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE OWNER AND
MODERATORS OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE
POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY
TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR
ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY
THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER
MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
SPONSORED LINKS Digital wedding photography Learn digital photography
Digital photography college
Digital photography Digital photography web site Digital
photography course
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
a.. Visit your group "DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint" on the web.
b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.9/217 - Release Date: 12/30/2005
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]2006-01-01 by john dean
Jim, What is making you successful is your knowledge, persistence, and honesty. --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Doyle" <jdoyle1713@c...> wrote: > > TB > > Thats why I Love You and The Crew.. We MySelf Included want nothing but the > best.. Thats what we all pay for:) So You guys & gals demand It from Me So > Thats My JOB To DEMAND it from the manufacture that I represent!! All > comments to me are welcome because I enjoy taking the feedback back to the > manufactures.. This has made me successful along with thye support of many > in this group! > > Happy New year To All > Jim Doyle > http://www.shadesofpaper.com > 856-424-8660 > > > PS Tyler I Have My WIfe Looking again as i write this.. She Cant Make Up > here Mind.. Three are in the running:) > -----Original Message----- > From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Tyler > Boley > Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2005 4:39 PM > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Innova PSC - was HPR alternative? > > > Josh, as Jim could tell you, I have gone through very little of this > paper. I'll bet Jim knows > more about how much of which paper who is using all over the country than > anyone else. > I intend to use less and less PhotoRag, and more of this. But lately > people have been > asking me to print on the more textured papers and I've gone through very > little HPR or > PSC, not enough to order much more. > I did notice some dark flecks in a box of 17x22 PSC recently, and let Jim > know. This is a > new company and if we want them to do well and keep making us good papers > it's > important to give them feedback, even if it ruins their day. > Tyler > > PS- Jim, PICK ONE!!! > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "joshhackney" > <joshhackney@g...> wrote: > > > > > > John, > > > > I recently ordered from Jim at shades of paper too and was very please. > Great guy. > > > > Question for you about Innova PSC. I just recently started using it in > 24" rolls. I've had > A > > LOT of little paper bits on both edges of the roll. How have you found > Innova's cut > > quality? I recall someone else asking about this a few months ago. I > seem to have a > > higher number of dark particles embedded within the paper too. I'm > curious if guys like > > you and Tyler, who go through a lot more of this paper than I do have > seen these issues. > > > > Best. > > > > Josh > > > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "john dean" > > <deanwork2003@y...> wrote: > > > > > > I have used Hahnemuhle Photo Rag for about 6 years steadily and now > > > have replaced it completely with Innova Smooth Cotton that I buy from > > > shades of paper.com. This media has been the most trouble free paper > > > I've used for both monochrome and color, with tonal renditon, great > > > blacks, great color gamut, and a very tough and consistent coating. It > > > also comes in longer rolls than Hahnemuhle at a lower per roll cost. > > > It is now available in dual sided for book work. I just don't think > > > you can beat it for a great general fine art photo paper. If you > > > haven't tried it, you should. > > > > > > John > > > > > > > > > > > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as > they are often being updated. > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint > > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to > unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same > page. > > Please follow these basic guidelines: > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep > them short. > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. > Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the > membership without notice. > - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W > printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from > the membership. > - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and > guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and > Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files section: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/ > > BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT > YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND > "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU > FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY > DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, > GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE "OWNER" AND > "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE > POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY > TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR > ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY > THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER > MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP. > > > > > SPONSORED LINKS Digital wedding photography Learn digital photography > Digital photography college > Digital photography Digital photography web site Digital > photography course > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- --------- > -- > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > a.. Visit your group "DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint" on the web. > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- --------- > -- > > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.9/217 - Release Date: 12/30/2005
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >
2006-01-03 by Tyler Boley
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "john dean" <deanwork2003@y...> wrote: > > Jim, > > What is making you successful is your knowledge, persistence, and > honesty. Darn it John, that's what I was going to say. Now if you get Silver Rag samples before I do I'm going to be really P.O.d. Tyler
2006-01-03 by john dean
Actually I'm out of town but Crane said they already sent them to me. I'I'll find out tomorrow. But... I want a roll. --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Tyler Boley" <tyler@t...> wrote:
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "john dean" > <deanwork2003@y...> wrote: > > > > Jim, > > > > What is making you successful is your knowledge, persistence, and > > honesty. > > Darn it John, that's what I was going to say. Now if you get Silver > Rag samples before I do I'm going to be really P.O.d. > Tyler >
2006-01-03 by Tyler Boley
well, I have a feeling we'll be putting PK in our printers to get anything out of this stuff anyway... I'll bet those teeniechromes would look good on it. Sounds like Bruce may be our man for that. Tyler --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "john dean" <deanwork2003@y...> wrote:
> > Actually I'm out of town but Crane said they already sent them to me. > I'I'll find out tomorrow. But... I want a roll. > > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Tyler Boley" > <tyler@t...> wrote: > > > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "john dean" > > <deanwork2003@y...> wrote: > > > > > > Jim, > > > > > > What is making you successful is your knowledge, persistence, and > > > honesty. > > > > Darn it John, that's what I was going to say. Now if you get Silver > > Rag samples before I do I'm going to be really P.O.d. > > Tyler > > >