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Photography Etiquette - (namely cemeteries)

Photography Etiquette - (namely cemeteries)

2005-12-06 by Megan Milligan

I don't know if this particular question has been posted before, but I'm wondering if there's something of a tactful way to photograph cemeteries.  I think they're some of the most beautiful things to look at (older, more ornate headstones), and I'm currently working on getting enough photographs for a section on my website.  
   
  But, I've been the recipient of a few stares in the past.  So, what's the most respectful and discreet way you would approach this?  Use a point & shoot versus a fullsize camera like a DSLR?  Keep it hidden in a piece of clothing until you don't see anyone looking at you and then take the picture?  Maybe take pictures at night or early  morning when fewer people might be around?  Talk to the groundskeeper about maybe setting up an appointment to be accompanied by them to do some photography?  Any advise is greatly appreciated.
   
  Megan


 

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Re: [Digital BW] Photography Etiquette - (namely cemeteries)

2005-12-06 by Mark Savoia

Check out this site, may have some answers.
http://www.davidrumsey.com/farber/
Mark

On Dec 6, 2005, at 4:38 PM, Megan Milligan wrote:

> I don't know if this particular question has been posted before,  
> but I'm wondering if there's something of a tactful way to  
> photograph cemeteries.  I think they're some of the most beautiful  
> things to look at (older, more ornate headstones), and I'm  
> currently working on getting enough photographs for a section on my  
> website.
>
>   But, I've been the recipient of a few stares in the past.  So,  
> what's the most respectful and discreet way you would approach  
> this?  Use a point & shoot versus a fullsize camera like a DSLR?   
> Keep it hidden in a piece of clothing until you don't see anyone  
> looking at you and then take the picture?  Maybe take pictures at  
> night or early  morning when fewer people might be around?  Talk to  
> the groundskeeper about maybe setting up an appointment to be  
> accompanied by them to do some photography?  Any advise is greatly  
> appreciated.
>
>   Megan
>
>
>
>
> test'; ">
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Personals
> Single? There's someone we'd like you to meet.
> Lots of someones, actually. Yahoo! Personals
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
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RE: [Digital BW] Photography Etiquette - (namely cemeteries)

2005-12-07 by Ken Carney

Hi Megan,

I have a portfolio of cemeteries.  I agree with you that they are intriguing
b&w subjects.  All of mine are b&w, and most are infrared.  I have a few on
my website.  I have never had a problem, including photographing with a
large-format camera, tripod, dark cloth and all that.  If I'm not sure, I
ask, and usually the only request I get (very rarely) is not to have the
deceased's name visible if it is for publication.  There is an exception in
large cities with numerous cemeteries, but it does not involve privacy,
rather the issue that you might walk in and not walk out (e.g., New
Orleans).  Hope this helps.

Ken
www.kencarney.com
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
> [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On 
> Behalf Of Megan Milligan
> Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2005 3:39 PM
> To: digitalblackandwhitetheprint@yahoogroups.com; 
> canon350d@yahoogroups.com; 
> digital_photography_forum@yahoogroups.com; 
> the_feminine_perspective@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Digital BW] Photography Etiquette - (namely cemeteries)
> 
> I don't know if this particular question has been posted 
> before, but I'm wondering if there's something of a tactful 
> way to photograph cemeteries.  I think they're some of the 
> most beautiful things to look at (older, more ornate 
> headstones), and I'm currently working on getting enough 
> photographs for a section on my website.  
>    
>   But, I've been the recipient of a few stares in the past.  
> So, what's the most respectful and discreet way you would 
> approach this?  Use a point & shoot versus a fullsize camera 
> like a DSLR?  Keep it hidden in a piece of clothing until you 
> don't see anyone looking at you and then take the picture?  
> Maybe take pictures at night or early  morning when fewer 
> people might be around?  Talk to the groundskeeper about 
> maybe setting up an appointment to be accompanied by them to 
> do some photography?  Any advise is greatly appreciated.
>    
>   Megan

Re: [Digital BW] Photography Etiquette - (namely cemeteries)

2005-12-07 by djon43

Cemetaries are long-standard kitsch that photographers, myself
included, have enjoyed from the beginning of our craft. But they are
not always generic public spaces to their protectors. 

Various American groups still retain non-Walmart cultures. Mative
Hispanics in New Mexico and the Four Corners, Navajo to my certain
knowledge, presumably other Native Americans, some conservative Jews,
and 'jes folks in remote settings, view cemetaries as sacred or very
private spaces. 

They understand themselves to be ripped off culturally or as a
community, which means very personally, when outsiders invade with
cameras. 

For related reasons, several pueblos in New Mexico do not allow any
photography, sketching, or other recording at all (eg three Indian and
two ancient Hispanic pueblos adjoining Albuquerque), and the Taos
Pueblo restricts wandering/photography to tourist-overrun display
areas, charging a fee-per-camera in exchange for the bits that we
erode from them when we leave with images. 

Perhaps this thinking actually adds value to the images that we do
make in cemetaries. I'm thinking of two that I want to photograph as I
write this, one of them "artistic," the other ugly but laden with
social implications.

John Kelly
Albuquerque
  



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Ken Carney"
<kcarney1@c...> wrote:
>
> Hi Megan,
> 
> I have a portfolio of cemeteries.  I agree with you that they are
intriguing
> b&w subjects.  All of mine are b&w, and most are infrared.  I have a
few on
> my website.  I have never had a problem, including photographing with a
> large-format camera, tripod, dark cloth and all that.  If I'm not
sure, I
> ask, and usually the only request I get (very rarely) is not to have the
> deceased's name visible if it is for publication.  There is an
exception in
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> large cities with numerous cemeteries, but it does not involve privacy,
> rather the issue that you might walk in and not walk out (e.g., New
> Orleans).  Hope this helps.
> 
> Ken
> www.kencarney.com
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
> > [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On 
> > Behalf Of Megan Milligan
> > Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2005 3:39 PM
> > To: digitalblackandwhitetheprint@yahoogroups.com; 
> > canon350d@yahoogroups.com; 
> > digital_photography_forum@yahoogroups.com; 
> > the_feminine_perspective@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [Digital BW] Photography Etiquette - (namely cemeteries)
> > 
> > I don't know if this particular question has been posted 
> > before, but I'm wondering if there's something of a tactful 
> > way to photograph cemeteries.  I think they're some of the 
> > most beautiful things to look at (older, more ornate 
> > headstones), and I'm currently working on getting enough 
> > photographs for a section on my website.  
> >    
> >   But, I've been the recipient of a few stares in the past.  
> > So, what's the most respectful and discreet way you would 
> > approach this?  Use a point & shoot versus a fullsize camera 
> > like a DSLR?  Keep it hidden in a piece of clothing until you 
> > don't see anyone looking at you and then take the picture?  
> > Maybe take pictures at night or early  morning when fewer 
> > people might be around?  Talk to the groundskeeper about 
> > maybe setting up an appointment to be accompanied by them to 
> > do some photography?  Any advise is greatly appreciated.
> >    
> >   Megan
>

Re: Photography Etiquette - (namely cemeteries)

2005-12-07 by Greg

If anyone ever gets to central New York, you might want to check out 
the cemetery in Auburn, and some of the other old cemeteries scattered 
around the area. Markers commonly have dates going back into the 1700-
1800's. Sorry, I don't have any pictures or better info.

Matching Camera to Printer?

2006-01-19 by Frank Vincent

One process I did with my film cameras was to match my cameras (and films) 
to my printing.  This meant knowing the times to produce absolute black with 
a clear negative, then with a full-zoned subject.  This took into account 
variables of camera, film, development time, enlarger, paper, etc.

My questions is, once I get my Epson 220 set up and printing steps 
correctly, should I then control for the digital camera variable? It seems 
that cameras might meter differently, creating a need for some modifications 
on the printer.

If so, I could shoot an image of a target that included absolute black, pure 
white (doing a white balance on it, of course), and some mid grays, 
including an 18% card.  Then, upon printing the image, I could tell if the 
printer was matching what the camera recorded.

Crazy? Sane? Irrelevant?

Frank Vincent

Re: Matching Camera to Printer?

2006-01-19 by James Parker

Frank, in my opinion, it's largely irrelevant IF you're shooting RAW. You
can correct a RAW image in post-processing to get just about any result you
want, and duplicating the conditions that would result in the same
parameters every time is almost impossible. Even shooting with all manual
parameters you'd need to take into account ISO, color balance, exposure and
any other custom tweaks that your camera allows. Many many more variables
than film. 

That said, it is useful to know how your cameras and lenses react to light
and how the sensors record it. Shooting a target under controlled conditions
and opening it in Adobe Camera Raw won't tell you what you need to know
unless your monitor is calibrated. (You don't say whether you have a
calibrated workflow.) If you do, then you can inspect the RAW file and
compare it to the target under carefully controlled lighting conditions and
adjust ACR to suit (the calibration tab ys under Advanced).

There are many things that get in the way of an absolute linear match
between camera and printed image, which is why I say it's largely
irrelevant. If it looks good when printed, then maybe it's ok for you and
your viewers. If it's way off, then something needs to change. The beauty of
the digital workflow is that the camera exposure is less important than it
was in the days of Kodachrome. It's still important, but easier to fix when
necessary.

And as far as matching camera to printer, it depends on the paper, the ink,
the ICC profiles and the printer. If you use more than a couple of these
variables, you may find that you're testing more than shooting. Again,
printing a reference target to your printers will help, but if the acquired
values in the camera target are off, then you need to decide if you want to
tweak the printer to match those values or if you want to match the correct
values, which you'd need to get via densitometer reading off of a standard
target, not one that you'd shot under variable conditions. If you have the
tools to measure this, by all means go for it! From my perspective, it's
much easier to edit the camera file look how I want it to look by having the
monitor and printer remain constant via profiling and paper. Which renders
profiling the camera redundant.

Jim


On 1/19/06 2:51 PM, "DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com"
<DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> Subject: Matching Camera to Printer?
> 
> 
> One process I did with my film cameras was to match my cameras (and films)
> to my printing.  This meant knowing the times to produce absolute black with
> a clear negative, then with a full-zoned subject.  This took into account
> variables of camera, film, development time, enlarger, paper, etc.
> 
> My questions is, once I get my Epson 220 set up and printing steps
> correctly, should I then control for the digital camera variable? It seems
> that cameras might meter differently, creating a need for some modifications
> on the printer.
> 
> If so, I could shoot an image of a target that included absolute black, pure
> white (doing a white balance on it, of course), and some mid grays,
> including an 18% card.  Then, upon printing the image, I could tell if the
> printer was matching what the camera recorded.
> 
> Crazy? Sane? Irrelevant?
> 
> Frank Vincent

Re: Matching Camera to Printer?

2006-01-20 by djon43

The camera that best matches my 2200 in B&W is/was a Rolleiflex with
3.5 Xenar, though in color my Canon F1's do pretty well. 

Or is the topic gizmos? 

OK, there are scanners in the workflow.




--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, James Parker
<dakota.kid@m...> wrote:
>
> Frank, in my opinion, it's largely irrelevant IF you're shooting
RAW. You
> can correct a RAW image in post-processing to get just about any
result you
> want, and duplicating the conditions that would result in the same
> parameters every time is almost impossible. Even shooting with all
manual
> parameters you'd need to take into account ISO, color balance,
exposure and
> any other custom tweaks that your camera allows. Many many more
variables
> than film. 
> 
> That said, it is useful to know how your cameras and lenses react to
light
> and how the sensors record it. Shooting a target under controlled
conditions
> and opening it in Adobe Camera Raw won't tell you what you need to know
> unless your monitor is calibrated. (You don't say whether you have a
> calibrated workflow.) If you do, then you can inspect the RAW file and
> compare it to the target under carefully controlled lighting
conditions and
> adjust ACR to suit (the calibration tab ys under Advanced).
> 
> There are many things that get in the way of an absolute linear match
> between camera and printed image, which is why I say it's largely
> irrelevant. If it looks good when printed, then maybe it's ok for
you and
> your viewers. If it's way off, then something needs to change. The
beauty of
> the digital workflow is that the camera exposure is less important
than it
> was in the days of Kodachrome. It's still important, but easier to
fix when
> necessary.
> 
> And as far as matching camera to printer, it depends on the paper,
the ink,
> the ICC profiles and the printer. If you use more than a couple of these
> variables, you may find that you're testing more than shooting. Again,
> printing a reference target to your printers will help, but if the
acquired
> values in the camera target are off, then you need to decide if you
want to
> tweak the printer to match those values or if you want to match the
correct
> values, which you'd need to get via densitometer reading off of a
standard
> target, not one that you'd shot under variable conditions. If you
have the
> tools to measure this, by all means go for it! From my perspective, it's
> much easier to edit the camera file look how I want it to look by
having the
> monitor and printer remain constant via profiling and paper. Which
renders
> profiling the camera redundant.
> 
> Jim
> 
> 
> On 1/19/06 2:51 PM, "DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com"
> <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> 
> > Subject: Matching Camera to Printer?
> > 
> > 
> > One process I did with my film cameras was to match my cameras
(and films)
> > to my printing.  This meant knowing the times to produce absolute
black with
> > a clear negative, then with a full-zoned subject.  This took into
account
> > variables of camera, film, development time, enlarger, paper, etc.
> > 
> > My questions is, once I get my Epson 220 set up and printing steps
> > correctly, should I then control for the digital camera variable?
It seems
> > that cameras might meter differently, creating a need for some
modifications
> > on the printer.
> > 
> > If so, I could shoot an image of a target that included absolute
black, pure
> > white (doing a white balance on it, of course), and some mid grays,
> > including an 18% card.  Then, upon printing the image, I could
tell if the
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> > printer was matching what the camera recorded.
> > 
> > Crazy? Sane? Irrelevant?
> > 
> > Frank Vincent
>

Re: Matching Camera to Printer?

2006-01-20 by Johnny Eades

Frank,

I've just completed calibrating my Nikon D70 using an Adobe script 
written by Thomas Fors that you can get from www.chromoholics.com 
website. Just follow the instructions provided and your camera will 
be calibrated thus providing you with a consistent starting point. 
This will also allow you to use a handheld light meter to determine 
your exposure much more accurately than the in-camera meter. The 
only additional expense will be a Machbeth Color Checker card/sheet 
to photograph with your camera. There is a complete process 
explanation on the site.

Your friend in Photography,

Johnny

> 
> On 1/19/06 2:51 PM, "DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com"
> <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> 
> > Subject: Matching Camera to Printer?
> > 
> > 
> > One process I did with my film cameras was to match my cameras 
(and films)
> > to my printing.  This meant knowing the times to produce 
absolute black with
> > a clear negative, then with a full-zoned subject.  This took 
into account
> > variables of camera, film, development time, enlarger, paper, 
etc.
> > 
> > My questions is, once I get my Epson 220 set up and printing 
steps
> > correctly, should I then control for the digital camera 
variable? It seems
> > that cameras might meter differently, creating a need for some 
modifications
> > on the printer.
> > 
> > If so, I could shoot an image of a target that included absolute 
black, pure
> > white (doing a white balance on it, of course), and some mid 
grays,
> > including an 18% card.  Then, upon printing the image, I could 
tell if the
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> > printer was matching what the camera recorded.
> > 
> > Crazy? Sane? Irrelevant?
> > 
> > Frank Vincent
>

RE: [Digital BW] Re: Matching Camera to Printer?

2006-01-20 by Frank Vincent

Thank you.  I thought this made sense to some degree.  Especially with 
different lenses.  I am considering using many of my old M42 mount Pentax 
lenses, and assumed that they could make some difference with the metering.  
I'm new into digital.

Frank Vincent
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>From: "Johnny Eades" <jeades1@...>
>Reply-To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
>To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Matching Camera to Printer?
>Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 13:16:53 -0000
>
>Frank,
>
>I've just completed calibrating my Nikon D70 using an Adobe script
>written by Thomas Fors that you can get from www.chromoholics.com
>website. Just follow the instructions provided and your camera will
>be calibrated thus providing you with a consistent starting point.
>This will also allow you to use a handheld light meter to determine
>your exposure much more accurately than the in-camera meter. The
>only additional expense will be a Machbeth Color Checker card/sheet
>to photograph with your camera. There is a complete process
>explanation on the site.
>
>Your friend in Photography,
>
>Johnny
>
> >
> > On 1/19/06 2:51 PM, "DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com"
> > <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Subject: Matching Camera to Printer?
> > >
> > >
> > > One process I did with my film cameras was to match my cameras
>(and films)
> > > to my printing.  This meant knowing the times to produce
>absolute black with
> > > a clear negative, then with a full-zoned subject.  This took
>into account
> > > variables of camera, film, development time, enlarger, paper,
>etc.
> > >
> > > My questions is, once I get my Epson 220 set up and printing
>steps
> > > correctly, should I then control for the digital camera
>variable? It seems
> > > that cameras might meter differently, creating a need for some
>modifications
> > > on the printer.
> > >
> > > If so, I could shoot an image of a target that included absolute
>black, pure
> > > white (doing a white balance on it, of course), and some mid
>grays,
> > > including an 18% card.  Then, upon printing the image, I could
>tell if the
> > > printer was matching what the camera recorded.
> > >
> > > Crazy? Sane? Irrelevant?
> > >
> > > Frank Vincent
> >
>
>
>
>

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