Digital BW, The Print

Hi all,

 

I’ve been playing around with my new 2100/2200 Epson printer for a couple of
weeks now, and although I’m quite pleased with the overall print quality, I
really think that the metamerism issue is unacceptable.

 

A bit of background: I’m used to print large-format negatives on Ilford
paper (fibre base warm tone and selenium toned – examples of that colour can
be seen here: http://www.jmf-photo.net/franca.html ).  This combination
gives me the expected colour at all times, regardless of the light source
temperature (I know there’s always a slight shift even with silver prints,
but I never noticed it…)

 

Anyway, I try to have that kind of colour on my digital prints, by
“brown-toning” them.

The prints coming out of the Epson look just fine and match what I have on
the display, as long as it’s not daylight. When I view them the morning next
day, they’re green… If I do the necessary changes for them to be acceptable
by daylight, they will look awful in the evening. This only happens with
“toned black and white” photos; full colour photos come out fine and look
pretty much the same under any lighting situations (here’s an example of
what I mean by “full colour”: http://www.jmf-photo.net/ .

 

I checked alternative ways of printing my B&W work with a warm tone, but the
only thing I could find was the PiezoTone inks (warm neutral and carbon
sepia) which I don’t particularly like because I would be stuck with the
same “standard” colour.

 

Is there any other way of achieving what I want, or am I missing something?

 

Thanks for any suggestions.

 

José Miguel Ferreira

 <http://www.jmf-photo.net> http://www.jmf-photo.net

 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> From: Jos\ufffd Miguel Ferreira [mailto:jmf@...]On Behalf Of
>
> I\ufffdve been playing around with my new 2100/2200 Epson printer for
> a couple of
> weeks now, and although I\ufffdm quite pleased with the overall print
> quality, I
> really think that the metamerism issue is unacceptable.

> The prints coming out of the Epson look just fine and match what I have on
> the display, as long as it\ufffds not daylight. When I view them the
> morning next
> day, they\ufffdre green\ufffd If I do the necessary changes for them to be
> acceptable
> by daylight, they will look awful in the evening. This only happens with
> \ufffdtoned black and white\ufffd photos; full colour photos come out fine and look
> pretty much the same under any lighting situations (here\ufffds an example of
> what I mean by \ufffdfull colour\ufffd: http://www.jmf-photo.net/ .

> Is there any other way of achieving what I want, or am I missing
> something?

ImagePrint works well with the stock Epson inks, by relying on much more
black ink, only using the minimum amount of colored inks to achieve the
necessary tone. Much more discussion can be found in the archives.

--

Ciao,               Paul D. DeRocco
Paul                mailto:pderocco@...

José,

>... 2100/2200 ... metamerism issue is unacceptable.

>... I’m used to ... Ilford paper (fibre base warm tone and selenium 
>toned – examples of that colour can
>be seen here: http://www.jmf-photo.net/franca.html ).  

I pulled one into Photoshop and the eyedropper gives me a reading I would
call a light sepia. 

>I checked alternative ways of printing my B&W work with a warm tone, 
>but the only thing I could find was the PiezoTone inks (warm neutral 

These are not nearly as warm as what is on the web page.

>and carbon sepia)

This would still probably not be as warm.

> which I don’t particularly like because I would be stuck with the
>same “standard” colour.

The MIS UT7 would give you a variable-tone inkset with a sepia toner that
you can modify as needed.  The standard sepia is 84% light carbon ink, 8%
MIS 7600 M and 8% 7600 Y.  By altering the ratio of the M & Y, you can make
a custom sepia tone.  The 2200/2100 separate and easy-to-fill carts make all
this real easy and cheap.

(Nice shots, by the way.)

My Readme file on the UT7 is at
http://home1.gte.net/res09aij/UT-2200-Readme.htm ; my general index of
printing information is at http://home1.gte.net/res09aij/index.htm .

Have fun.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

I had the same exact problem with my 2200 (prints looking green in 
daylight), even using the Epson Gray Balancer software.  I recently 
switched to using MIS UT7 inkset and am very impressed with the 
results.  For more info on these inks, got to www.inksupply.com or 
www.paulroark.com.  

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, <jm-
ferreira@b...> wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
>  
> 
> I've been playing around with my new 2100/2200 Epson printer for a 
couple of
> weeks now, and although I'm quite pleased with the overall print 
quality, I
> really think that the metamerism issue is unacceptable.
> 
>  
> 
> A bit of background: I'm used to print large-format negatives on 
Ilford
> paper (fibre base warm tone and selenium toned – examples of that 
colour can
> be seen here: http://www.jmf-photo.net/franca.html ).  This 
combination
> gives me the expected colour at all times, regardless of the light 
source
> temperature (I know there's always a slight shift even with silver 
prints,
> but I never noticed it
)
> 
>  
> 
> Anyway, I try to have that kind of colour on my digital prints, by
> "brown-toning" them.
> 
> The prints coming out of the Epson look just fine and match what I 
have on
> the display, as long as it's not daylight. When I view them the 
morning next
> day, they're green
 If I do the necessary changes for them to be 
acceptable
> by daylight, they will look awful in the evening. This only 
happens with
> "toned black and white" photos; full colour photos come out fine 
and look
> pretty much the same under any lighting situations (here's an 
example of
> what I mean by "full colour": http://www.jmf-photo.net/ .
> 
>  
> 
> I checked alternative ways of printing my B&W work with a warm 
tone, but the
> only thing I could find was the PiezoTone inks (warm neutral and 
carbon
> sepia) which I don't particularly like because I would be stuck 
with the
> same "standard" colour.
> 
>  
> 
> Is there any other way of achieving what I want, or am I missing 
something?

> 
>  
> 
> Thanks for any suggestions.
> 
>  
> 
> José Miguel Ferreira
> 
>  <http://www.jmf-photo.net> http://www.jmf-photo.net
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com,
<jm-ferreira@b...> wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
>  
> 
> I've been playing around with my new 2100/2200 Epson printer
for a
couple of
> weeks now, and although I'm quite pleased with the overall print
quality, I
> really think that the metamerism issue is unacceptable.

> Is there any other way of achieving what I want, or am I missing
something?
> 
Yes, one of  the things you've "missed" is quite a revolution during
the past year in the ability to print B&W (using the 2100/2200)
without metamerism and at very low cost. Specifically, check out Roy
Harrington's "QuadToneRIP" software ($50 shareware) at:
http://harrington.com/QuadToneRIP.html
 
Use of this RIP ("QTRIP") has been quite extensively discussed in this
group. It can be used to print excellent B&W (virtually
metamerism-free) using the oem Epson Ultrachrome color inks as well as
using special quad inks such as from MIS/UT.

Phil

Thank you all for your suggestions! They did help a lot.

I installed and tried QTR with success - very little metamerism if at all,
but in any case the slight shift is actually pleasant looking because it
stays in the same range. Pretty good! I still have to tweak it a bit, but
the results were really good from the first try.

Paul - thank you for your comments. I cannot try MIS inks right now because
I still have a colour project consisting of nearly 100 images to print. I
will certainly try it out in the future. I read the info on your website;
very useful, thanks!

One thing that I really don't understand: why can't Epson develop a driver
that delivers results out of the box? Think about it: the driver can't even
centre the image correctly!

Many thanks to Roy Harrington and Stephen Billard for their great work! Well
worth the $50...

Regards,
José
  
   Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 19:11:07 -0800

   From: "Paul D. DeRocco" <pderocco@...>
Subject: RE: Is metamerism acceptable?

> From: José Miguel Ferreira [mailto:jmf@jmf-photo.net]On Behalf Of
>
> I’ve been playing around with my new 2100/2200 Epson printer for
> a couple of
> weeks now, and although I’m quite pleased with the overall print
> quality, I
> really think that the metamerism issue is unacceptable.

> The prints coming out of the Epson look just fine and match what I have on
> the display, as long as it’s not daylight. When I view them the
> morning next
> day, they’re green
 If I do the necessary changes for them to be
> acceptable
> by daylight, they will look awful in the evening. This only happens with
> “toned black and white” photos; full colour photos come out fine and look
> pretty much the same under any lighting situations (here’s an example of
> what I mean by “full colour”: http://www.jmf-photo.net/ .

> Is there any other way of achieving what I want, or am I missing
> something?

ImagePrint works well with the stock Epson inks, by relying on much more
black ink, only using the minimum amount of colored inks to achieve the
necessary tone. Much more discussion can be found in the archives.

--

Ciao,               Paul D. DeRocco
Paul                mailto:pderocco@...



________________________________________________________________________

Message: 13        
   Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 19:34:57 -0800
   From: "Paul Roark" <paul.roark@verizon.net>
Subject: RE: Is metamerism acceptable?

José,

>... 2100/2200 ... metamerism issue is unacceptable.

>... I’m used to ... Ilford paper (fibre base warm tone and selenium 
>toned – examples of that colour can
>be seen here: http://www.jmf-photo.net/franca.html ).  

I pulled one into Photoshop and the eyedropper gives me a reading I would
call a light sepia. 

>I checked alternative ways of printing my B&W work with a warm tone, 
>but the only thing I could find was the PiezoTone inks (warm neutral 

These are not nearly as warm as what is on the web page.

>and carbon sepia)

This would still probably not be as warm.

> which I don’t particularly like because I would be stuck with the
>same “standard” colour.

The MIS UT7 would give you a variable-tone inkset with a sepia toner that
you can modify as needed.  The standard sepia is 84% light carbon ink, 8%
MIS 7600 M and 8% 7600 Y.  By altering the ratio of the M & Y, you can make
a custom sepia tone.  The 2200/2100 separate and easy-to-fill carts make all
this real easy and cheap.

(Nice shots, by the way.)

My Readme file on the UT7 is at
http://home1.gte.net/res09aij/UT-2200-Readme.htm ; my general index of
printing information is at http://home1.gte.net/res09aij/index.htm .

Have fun.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com 





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