Digital BW, The Print

Quite a shocker..  I had a bunch of inkjet prints sitting in a pile on my desk, most printed 
on EEM but I had made one print on photorag 308.  All these are prints I had made in the 
last couple of days.
This morning I glanced over at the pile of prints and... there was one that had turned a 
bright garish yellow, almost chartreuse!  It was such a bright yellow that I just couldn't 
believe my eyes..  all the others were fine, and it was the HPR print that had turned this 
outrageous color!  The yellow is only on the coated side of the paper, the other side is 
unaffected.
It happens that the HPR print was sitting on top of a newspaper, so I did a little 
experiment.. I took another sheet of HPR and set it on top of another piece of newsprint, 
and after just a few hours it's starting to change color too!  Another bit of oddness is that 
the original print is losing it's yellowness now that it's no longer near the newspaper.
Just to be clear about this, the HPR print was lying image side up on top of the newspaper.  
The coated side wasn't in contact with the newsprint.. so whatever reaction took place was 
not through direct contact with the coated side.
Just thought I'd post this in case anyone else had photorag that suddenly turned bright 
yellow on them:  it's because the paper is near newsprint, I just can't explain why!

I have heard of this happening when prints are stored between plain old 
corrugated cardboard. Are you sure if fades away after awhile?
Mark

On Oct 23, 2004, at 6:13 PM, crislomcam wrote:

>
>  Quite a shocker..� I had a bunch of inkjet prints sitting in a pile 
> on my desk, most printed
>  on EEM but I had made one print on photorag 308.� All these are 
> prints I had made in the
>  last couple of days.
>  This morning I glanced over at the pile of prints and... there was 
> one that had turned a
>  bright garish yellow, almost chartreuse!� It was such a bright yellow 
> that I just couldn't
>  believe my eyes..� all the others were fine, and it was the HPR print 
> that had turned this
>  outrageous color!� The yellow is only on the coated side of the 
> paper, the other side is
>  unaffected.
>  It happens that the HPR print was sitting on top of a newspaper, so I 
> did a little
>  experiment.. I took another sheet of HPR and set it on top of another 
> piece of newsprint,
>  and after just a few hours it's starting to change color too!� 
> Another bit of oddness is that
>  the original print is losing it's yellowness now that it's no longer 
> near the newspaper.
>  Just to be clear about this, the HPR print was lying image side up on 
> top of the newspaper.�
>  The coated side wasn't in contact with the newsprint.. so whatever 
> reaction took place was
>  not through direct contact with the coated side.
>  Just thought I'd post this in case anyone else had photorag that 
> suddenly turned bright
>  yellow on them:� it's because the paper is near newsprint, I just 
> can't explain why!
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other 
> resources as they are often being updated.
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
>  If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish 
> to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting 
> this same page.
>
>  Please follow these basic guidelines:
>  - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to 
> keep them short.
>  - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or 
> flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from 
> the membership without notice.
>  - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital 
> B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be 
> removed from the membership.
>  - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and 
> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group 
> Owner and Moderators. See �Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines� in the 
> Files section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
>
>  BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE 
> PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE �OWNER� 
> AND �MODERATORS� OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE 
> LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, 
> CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, 
> DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE 
> LOSSES (EVEN IF THE� �OWNER� AND �MODERATORS� OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT 
> YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), 
> RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, 
> THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF 
> YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD 
> PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER 
> MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>
> ADVERTISEMENT
> <image.tiff>
> <image.tiff>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> 	� 	To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/
> �
> 	� 	 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> �
> 	� 	 Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of 
> Service.
>
>  

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I think you will find a great deal on this subject if you search the
archives.
I've also heard it can be made to disappear one way or another.
Tyler


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "crislomcam"
<crislom@e...> wrote:
> 
> Quite a shocker..  I had a bunch of inkjet prints sitting in a pile
on my desk, most printed 
> on EEM but I had made one print on photorag 308.  All these are
prints I had made in the 
> last couple of days.
> This morning I glanced over at the pile of prints and... there was
one that had turned a 
> bright garish yellow, almost chartreuse!  It was such a bright
yellow that I just couldn't 
> believe my eyes..  all the others were fine, and it was the HPR
print that had turned this 
> outrageous color!  The yellow is only on the coated side of the
paper, the other side is 
> unaffected.
> It happens that the HPR print was sitting on top of a newspaper, so
I did a little 
> experiment.. I took another sheet of HPR and set it on top of
another piece of newsprint, 
> and after just a few hours it's starting to change color too! 
Another bit of oddness is that 
> the original print is losing it's yellowness now that it's no longer
near the newspaper.
> Just to be clear about this, the HPR print was lying image side up
on top of the newspaper.  
> The coated side wasn't in contact with the newsprint.. so whatever
reaction took place was 
> not through direct contact with the coated side.
> Just thought I'd post this in case anyone else had photorag that
suddenly turned bright 
> yellow on them:  it's because the paper is near newsprint, I just
can't explain why!

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Tyler Boley" 
<tyler@t...> wrote:
> 
> I think you will find a great deal on this subject if you search the
> archives.
> I've also heard it can be made to disappear one way or another.
> Tyler

Seconded.  I've heard a lot on various forums like this about this 
problem.  Usually it's something mysterious or hard to reproduce.

What this shows is that this technology is too new and WE JUST DON'T 
UNDERSTAND all the factors that might affect its stability.   People 
can run all the color stability tests they want and try to accelerate 
the aging process to estimate how long inkjet prints will last until 
your prints are blue in the face, but all of those tests are based on 
the assumption we can already guess what all the factors are that 
might cause fading, or color casts or outright changes in the coated 
paper itself.   But the reality is that WE DON'T KNOW what all the 
factors are that might cause this.

I have one set of color prints on EEM here at work, on my cube wall, 
under 24/7 fluorescent lights and 2 years after they were made they 
look fine.  I have another set at home made from the paper OUT OF THE 
SAME CARTON, that have been sitting in a drawer, which have taken on 
a greenish cast.   God only knows why.

This is yet another reason why I'm an advocate of having black and 
whte prints made photographically.   Because that technolog has been 
around longer so its characteristics are better understood and more 
predictable.

The drawer........... well there you go. You can put platinum prints, silver prints, 
watercolors, or whatever artwork in a wooden drawer that is full of acidic compounds and 
have them turn yellow. I certainly wouldn't blame the injet rag paper for that! How silver 
prints are "made" varries considerably depending on the way they are washed, cleared, etc. 
Anything can stain if not produced and cared for properly. I have been using these inkjet 
rag papers since they first came out and never have I had a single one stain because they 
have not been stored naked in a drawer.

> SAME CARTON, that have been sitting in a drawer, which have taken on 
> a greenish cast.   God only knows why.
> 
> This is yet another reason why I'm an advocate of having black and 
> whte prints made photographically.   Because that technolog has been 
> around longer so its characteristics are better understood and more 
> predictable.

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "john dean" 
<deanwork2003@y...> wrote:
> 
> The drawer........... well there you go. You can put platinum 
prints, silver prints, 
> watercolors, or whatever artwork in a wooden drawer that is full of 
acidic compounds and 
> have them turn yellow. I certainly wouldn't blame the injet rag 
paper for that! 

It was a metal drawer in an all metal office desk.  In that same 
drawer are hundreds of photographic prints, some dating to the 
1960's, which are all perfectly fine.

> How silver prints are "made" varries considerably depending 
> on the way they are washed, cleared, etc. 

Sure.  But at least we KNOW what the variables are.   The problem 
with inkjet technology is that we DON'T KNOW what all the factors are 
that affect them.  These kinds of reports of inket prints, or just 
the paper, suddenly making dramatic color changes are all over the 
web.

In a message dated 10/27/04 4:41:46 PM, Bob Frost writes:


> In my brief experience, 99% of the mysterious problems with inkjet prints
> are due to people using 3rd-party inks and papers. Printer manufacturers go
> to a lot of trouble to get matching papers and inks that work with their
> printers most of the time. Then along comes Joe Bloggs who thinks he knows
> better and can save a dollar/euro/pound or two by using WonderGlo ink and
> Cheapo paper.
> 

Not so fast.   I've been mute during this disucssion, but I will note (and I 
wonder if others have had this experience) that the plastic strap that Epson 
(EPSON!) ships with the 7600/9600 to keep paper rolls from unfurling is itself 
reactive, and will turn the paper underneath it yellow -- not just the layer 
in direct contact with it, but a number of layers underneath it as well.   It 
ruined a roll of Hawk Mountain Merlin to my dismay.   Amazing.

Sanders McNew.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

It can, and does get down to Texas... as a matter of
fact the 300mb jetstream is over Texas right now.

http://squall.sfsu.edu/crws/jetstream.html


<<NO! The jet stream basically moves from the Pacific 
northwest across the northern US into the northeast. 
Yes, it can dip down, on occasion, but I don't believe
it 
ever gets as far down as Texas. ....>>