Digital BW, The Print

I'm using an Epson 9600 with UltraChrome inks (Matte black), Somerset 
Velvet for Epson, and ColorBurst RIP (PC version).  I custom-built a 
profile (DTP-41 with UV filter and Monaco Profiler Pro) to be used 
specifically for black and white images, and have had great results.  
The problem is that I have some images I need to print for a customer 
that have a smooth gradient - basically a heavy dodge on the subject 
matter to create a halo effect - that show some "breaks" in the 
transitions.  When I print a gradient test image (created in 
Photoshop) I can see them, albeit they are very slight, meaning it's 
not an artifact from adjusting the file.  I've tried different 
resolutions and screening algorhythms (lower quality is slightly 
better, but still not perfect) to try and improve things, but I can't 
completely get rid of it.  I've printed the test with no profile 
applied, and it seems to be there in the linearization as well.  I 
even tried some tests with no linearization or profile, and I get the 
same problem.  Has anyone been able to print a super-smooth, perfect 
tonal gradient with this (or any) inkjet printer?  Or am I always 
going to have some slight rough spots?  Every other type of black and 
white image I print looks beautiful... it's just these damned 
gradients without any texture that give me fits.  

Sarah Smith

Sarah  -
 
I just tried what you describe.  Same print/paper/ink, and IP5.6 for the RIP w/IP5.6 ICC profile.  I created a 5"x10" image in PS that was just a 0-255 fill.  No adjustments to the image.  The printed image was perfectly smooth.  
 
Maybe you problem is in the RIP/ICC profile somewhere.  
 
Tom Baker

Sarah Smith <ssmith@...> wrote:
I'm using an Epson 9600 with UltraChrome inks (Matte black), Somerset 
Velvet for Epson, and ColorBurst RIP (PC version).  I custom-built a 
profile (DTP-41 with UV filter and Monaco Profiler Pro) to be used 
specifically for black and white images, and have had great results.  
The problem is that I have some images I need to print for a customer 
that have a smooth gradient - basically a heavy dodge on the subject 
matter to create a halo effect - that show some "breaks" in the 
transitions.  When I print a gradient test image (created in 
Photoshop) I can see them, albeit they are very slight, meaning it's 
not an artifact from adjusting the file.  I've tried different 
resolutions and screening algorhythms (lower quality is slightly 
better, but still not perfect) to try and improve things, but I can't 
completely get rid of it.  I've printed the test with no profile 
applied, and it seems to be there in the linearization as well.  I 
even tried some tests with no linearization or profile, and I get the 
same problem.  Has anyone been able to print a super-smooth, perfect 
tonal gradient with this (or any) inkjet printer?  Or am I always 
going to have some slight rough spots?  Every other type of black and 
white image I print looks beautiful... it's just these damned 
gradients without any texture that give me fits.  

Sarah Smith




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello Sarah,

The main question for me is whether the "breaks" in the gradient are
actually in the image (and not visible on screen) and are being
accurately reproduced by the printer, or if they are being introduced
by the printer/driver, etc.  

A good way to find out is to make a print using the Black Ink Only
setting.  This will eliminate any possibility of the breaks being
caused by the driver's attempts to overlay different inks to
transition across densities in the gradient.  If the breaks are still
there then they are probably in the image itself.  


Regards,
Clayton


Info on black and white digital printing at    
http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm

try putting a slight gaussian blur on it and bring it in via a layer mask if
that's possible.

Mike

From: "Sarah Smith" <ssmith@...>
Reply-To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 03:02:52 -0000
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] Is a perfectly smooth tonal gradient possible on
inkjet?


I'm using an Epson 9600 with UltraChrome inks (Matte black), Somerset
Velvet for Epson, and ColorBurst RIP (PC version).  I custom-built a
profile (DTP-41 with UV filter and Monaco Profiler Pro) to be used
specifically for black and white images, and have had great results.
The problem is that I have some images I need to print for a customer
that have a smooth gradient - basically a heavy dodge on the subject
matter to create a halo effect - that show some "breaks" in the
transitions.  When I print a gradient test image (created in
Photoshop) I can see them, albeit they are very slight, meaning it's
not an artifact from adjusting the file.  I've tried different
resolutions and screening algorhythms (lower quality is slightly
better, but still not perfect) to try and improve things, but I can't
completely get rid of it.  I've printed the test with no profile
applied, and it seems to be there in the linearization as well.  I
even tried some tests with no linearization or profile, and I get the
same problem.  Has anyone been able to print a super-smooth, perfect
tonal gradient with this (or any) inkjet printer?  Or am I always
going to have some slight rough spots?  Every other type of black and
white image I print looks beautiful... it's just these damned
gradients without any texture that give me fits.

Sarah Smith




Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
they are often being updated.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
page.

Please follow these basic guidelines:
- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
membership without notice.
- Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from
the membership.
- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and
Moderators. See “Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines” in the Files section:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/

BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE “OWNER” AND
“MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU
FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY
DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS,
GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  “OWNER” AND
“MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE
POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY
TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR
ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY
THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER
MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.






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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In a word, yes. But you have many places along the way that could be
problematic. My suspicion is that it's the profile. Profiles are much
better at remapping color than density, and you are using color inks
as well. But you say it's there without the profile, so I suspect you
need to carefully relinearize, which will then put you in a position
of having to reprofile as well. I'm not suprised you see it without
linearization as the transitions from light to dark ink components are
not smoothed. I don't know anything about Colorburst's linearizing
process, but if you have the option of selecting the number of patches
on a chart, pick many.
With StudioPrint I'm using 80, and am tempted do try even more. The
cross-over points may need optimizing as well.
I suspect you have one problem compounding another, from linearization
to profiling. Since you say a clean created grad has the problem, it's
probably not the file, usually it is. Gradients edited into 8 bit gray
files tend to band in smooth areas, one workaround is to do it on an
adjustment layer and add noise to the mask gradient.
Tyler

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Sarah Smith"
<ssmith@f...> wrote:

> I'm using an Epson 9600 with UltraChrome inks (Matte black), Somerset 
> Velvet for Epson, and ColorBurst RIP (PC version).  I custom-built a 
> profile (DTP-41 with UV filter and Monaco Profiler Pro) to be used 
> specifically for black and white images, and have had great results.  
> The problem is that I have some images I need to print for a customer 
> that have a smooth gradient - basically a heavy dodge on the subject 
> matter to create a halo effect - that show some "breaks" in the 
> transitions.  When I print a gradient test image (created in 
> Photoshop) I can see them, albeit they are very slight, meaning it's 
> not an artifact from adjusting the file.  I've tried different 
> resolutions and screening algorhythms (lower quality is slightly 
> better, but still not perfect) to try and improve things, but I can't 
> completely get rid of it.  I've printed the test with no profile 
> applied, and it seems to be there in the linearization as well.  I 
> even tried some tests with no linearization or profile, and I get the 
> same problem.  Has anyone been able to print a super-smooth, perfect 
> tonal gradient with this (or any) inkjet printer?  Or am I always 
> going to have some slight rough spots?  Every other type of black and 
> white image I print looks beautiful... it's just these damned 
> gradients without any texture that give me fits.  
> 
> Sarah Smith

Sarah,

hard to tell what's going on from a distance, but here are some thoughts:

- if the breaks are there pre-lin and pre-profiling, then the profiling should 
take care of it (and you seem to have all the right high-end tools for that).
Could they have developed _after_ you did the profile you are using?

- Are all nozzles firing properly, not when you do simple nozzle checks
but at print speed? You have to print with individual nozzles to find out.
Don't know if CBurst allows you to do that or how it deals with the black/gray
vs colors mix. StudioPrint allows that on the PC. 

- Try printing 16bit files. 

- If all else fails, try adding a pinch of noise - the kind that may be
invisible in small amounts. Maybe through a masked layer, to limit
the area it is applied. Whatever you do, do not use blurring - it will
make things worse.

- Generally speaking, using color management to print bw with only
a single gray in the inkset is pretty dicy. I would recommend software
that properly partitions inks and at least one more gray in the set.



Antonis











--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Sarah Smith" <ssmith@f...> 
wrote:


....

>Has anyone been able to print a super-smooth, perfect 
> tonal gradient with this (or any) inkjet printer?  Or am I always 
> going to have some slight rough spots?  Every other type of black and 
> white image I print looks beautiful... it's just these damned 
> gradients without any texture that give me fits.  
> 
> Sarah Smith

Sarah,

Just a thought... 

Have you checked your image using the Photoshop Histogram tool? If 
there are any breaks between the black and white points or several 
breaks / vertical lines (commonly called "combing" because the 
histogram resembles a comb) the problem may be that image was 
accidentally re-sampled somewhere in the process or the contrast 
range changed, etc.. 

There is no data in those blank areas within the histogram and that 
can cause a sorta mini-posterization between the areas that do have 
values and would be quite apparent in a gradient. 

Regards,
George Aiello


> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Sarah Smith" 
<ssmith@f...> 
> wrote:
> ....
> 
> >Has anyone been able to print a super-smooth, perfect 
> > tonal gradient with this (or any) inkjet printer?  Or am I always 
> > going to have some slight rough spots?  Every other type of black 
and 

> > white image I print looks beautiful... it's just these damned 
> > gradients without any texture that give me fits.  
> > 
> > Sarah Smith