Digital BW, The Print

I recently bought a Nikon D70 and am having lots of fun taking photos of my son and 
printing them on an Epson 1200 with MIS VM inks.  (My 1200 is especially well calibrated 
to the VM curves because it was the "model" that Paul Roark used to generate the curves 
for this printer.)  One thing I've noticed from prints from this 6 megapixel DSLR is that, 
unlike MIS VM prints I've done from scans of 6 cm x 9 cm color slides converted to black 
and white in Photoshoip, certain shadow detail areas (especially my son's hair) end up 
having large pixelation blocks (areas where there are large blotchy blocks of black ink).  I 
notice these types of areas on prints larger than 8 x 10" (i.e. printed a 180 dpi) and to a 
much lesser extent on some 8 x 10" prints (i.e. printed at 240 dpi).  I've noticed this from 
other digital cameras, in particular my Canon G2.  My hypotheses as to what's causing this 
is that: a. It is caused by the Bayer pattern, and/or b. It's caused by my overaggressive use 
of the levels and/or curves commands in Photoshop to get a full range of shadow values.  
It's not just in the prints but also noticeable at 100% view in Photoshop, although much 
less visible in Photoshop than in the actual prints.  Has anyone else noticed this 
phenomenon?  Any decent solutions for getting rid of it?  BTW, my work flow is to shoot in 
raw, and use the Photoshop Camera Raw plug in.  I work entirely in 16 bit.  I am very 
skilled in Photoshop.  I do not oversharpen.  Thanks for your help.  BTW, I love the D70.  
I'm falling in love with photography all over again.

Hi Howard,
The Epson printer drivers really should have 300-360dpi files to print properly. 
Upsample your image to 360dpi to be safe--One resize with Photoshop bicubic is 
fine, or do it in 2-3 incremental steps with bicubic if you want.

More likely, investigate the blotchy areas in Photoshop with the eyedropper tool--is 
perhaps posterization occurring because of the levels/curves commands? If, for 
example you find the entire blotch slammed to 0,0,0 or 100% K, it may be levels/
curves that are to blame.

Enjoy your D70! I'm definitely enjoying my D60 as well.

Dave

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Howard Slavitt" 
<howard.slavitt@s...> wrote:
> certain shadow detail areas (especially my son's hair) end up 
> having large pixelation blocks (areas where there are large blotchy blocks of black 
ink).  I notice these types of areas on prints larger than 8 x 10" (i.e. printed a 180 dpi) 
> and to a much lesser extent on some 8 x 10" prints (i.e. printed at 240 dpi).

"Howard Slavitt" <howard.slavitt@s...> wrote:
> I recently bought a Nikon D70  BTW, my work flow is to shoot in 
> raw, and use the Photoshop Camera Raw plug in.  I work entirely in 16 bit.  

Photoshop Camera Raw does not suppport the D70 at this time...it will open the raw file 
but as you can see the quality is not there yet.

John...Thanks for the help with upsizing files.

I just got a D70.  As this is my first DSLR, I'm a little hazy on 
dealing with the files.  I have done some test shots on RAW, 
transfered the file from the camera to the PC using the Picture 
Project software I got in the kit.  I then open the file with P/S CS 
and save it as a TIF file for processing.  Is this right?...Val

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "John Vitollo" 
<jvlist@c...> wrote:
> "Howard Slavitt" <howard.slavitt@s...> wrote:
> > I recently bought a Nikon D70  BTW, my work flow is to shoot in 
> > raw, and use the Photoshop Camera Raw plug in.  I work entirely 
in 16 bit.  
> 
> Photoshop Camera Raw does not suppport the D70 at this time...it 
will open the raw file 
> but as you can see the quality is not there yet.

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Val Brunell" 
<vbrunell@d...> wrote:
> John...Thanks for the help with upsizing files.
> 
> I just got a D70.  As this is my first DSLR, I'm a little hazy on 
> dealing with the files.  I have done some test shots on RAW, 
> transfered the file from the camera to the PC using the Picture 
> Project software I got in the kit.  I then open the file with P/S 
CS 
> and save it as a TIF file for processing.  Is this right?...Val
> 
If somewhere in your workflow you can convert your file to 16 bits 
while still in raw mode that will help later on when you start making 
adjustment in Photoshop.

"Val Brunell" wrote:

> I have done some test shots on RAW, 
> transfered the file from the camera to the PC using the Picture 
> Project software I got in the kit.  I then open the file with P/S CS 
> and save it as a TIF file for processing.  Is this right?...Val

I'm on a Mac so I don't know much about Picture Package. I'd use the Nikon software to 
convert the raw files to tiffs in 16 bit of course.

John:

Actually, I'm working with a beta version of RAW that does support 
the D70.  The quality of conversion is very good.  The problem I've 
noted does not appear when printing to color.  I do the conversion 
into 16 bit.  I'm pretty sure it's a Bayer pattern phenomenon, and/or 
a result of overaggressive use of levels and curves.

Also, my terminology in my original post was mistaken.  I should have 
said posterization/mottling of deep shadow/black areas.  The problem 
is probably best described as mottling.

Howard

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "John Vitollo" 
<jvlist@c...> wrote:
> "Howard Slavitt" <howard.slavitt@s...> wrote:
> > I recently bought a Nikon D70  BTW, my work flow is to shoot in 
> > raw, and use the Photoshop Camera Raw plug in.  I work entirely 
in 16 bit.  
> 
> Photoshop Camera Raw does not suppport the D70 at this time...it 
will open the raw file 
> but as you can see the quality is not there yet.

This question is very relevent to me as well, since I
experience the same problem on occasion.  I might
describe it as "solarization" in some darker/shaded
areas that have a continuous tone.

I am using scanned film files in PS CS.

I too have suspected that it may be the result of
being a bit too zeolous in my curve adjustments. 
However, these curves are not usually very extreme at
all.

I need to take the time to print these images again
without the curves being applied to see what, if any,
difference it makes.

Congrats on the D70!  I am a happy F100 owner myself,
but the D70 looks very promising, especially at less
than $1k!
--- Howard Slavitt <howard.slavitt@...>
wrote:
> I recently bought a Nikon D70 and am having lots of
> fun taking photos of my son and 
> printing them on an Epson 1200 with MIS VM inks. 
> (My 1200 is especially well calibrated 
> to the VM curves because it was the "model" that
> Paul Roark used to generate the curves 
> for this printer.)  One thing I've noticed from
> prints from this 6 megapixel DSLR is that, 
> unlike MIS VM prints I've done from scans of 6 cm x
> 9 cm color slides converted to black 
> and white in Photoshoip, certain shadow detail areas
> (especially my son's hair) end up 
> having large pixelation blocks (areas where there
> are large blotchy blocks of black ink).  I 
> notice these types of areas on prints larger than 8
> x 10" (i.e. printed a 180 dpi) and to a 
> much lesser extent on some 8 x 10" prints (i.e.
> printed at 240 dpi).  I've noticed this from 
> other digital cameras, in particular my Canon G2. 
> My hypotheses as to what's causing this 
> is that: a. It is caused by the Bayer pattern,
> and/or b. It's caused by my overaggressive use 
> of the levels and/or curves commands in Photoshop to
> get a full range of shadow values.  
> It's not just in the prints but also noticeable at
> 100% view in Photoshop, although much 
> less visible in Photoshop than in the actual prints.
>  Has anyone else noticed this 
> phenomenon?  Any decent solutions for getting rid of
> it?  BTW, my work flow is to shoot in 
> raw, and use the Photoshop Camera Raw plug in.  I
> work entirely in 16 bit.  I am very 
> skilled in Photoshop.  I do not oversharpen.  Thanks
> for your help.  BTW, I love the D70.  
> I'm falling in love with photography all over again.
> 
> 


__________________________________
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BTW, I didn't know that the Photoshop Camera Raw
plugin was supporting the D70 yet.  Is it?


--- Howard Slavitt <howard.slavitt@...>
wrote:
> I recently bought a Nikon D70 and am having lots of
> fun taking photos of my son and 
> printing them on an Epson 1200 with MIS VM inks. 
> (My 1200 is especially well calibrated 
> to the VM curves because it was the "model" that
> Paul Roark used to generate the curves 
> for this printer.)  One thing I've noticed from
> prints from this 6 megapixel DSLR is that, 
> unlike MIS VM prints I've done from scans of 6 cm x
> 9 cm color slides converted to black 
> and white in Photoshoip, certain shadow detail areas
> (especially my son's hair) end up 
> having large pixelation blocks (areas where there
> are large blotchy blocks of black ink).  I 
> notice these types of areas on prints larger than 8
> x 10" (i.e. printed a 180 dpi) and to a 
> much lesser extent on some 8 x 10" prints (i.e.
> printed at 240 dpi).  I've noticed this from 
> other digital cameras, in particular my Canon G2. 
> My hypotheses as to what's causing this 
> is that: a. It is caused by the Bayer pattern,
> and/or b. It's caused by my overaggressive use 
> of the levels and/or curves commands in Photoshop to
> get a full range of shadow values.  
> It's not just in the prints but also noticeable at
> 100% view in Photoshop, although much 
> less visible in Photoshop than in the actual prints.
>  Has anyone else noticed this 
> phenomenon?  Any decent solutions for getting rid of
> it?  BTW, my work flow is to shoot in 
> raw, and use the Photoshop Camera Raw plug in.  I
> work entirely in 16 bit.  I am very 
> skilled in Photoshop.  I do not oversharpen.  Thanks
> for your help.  BTW, I love the D70.  
> I'm falling in love with photography all over again.
> 
> 


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway 
http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/

Howard; IMO the likely culprit is overaggressive use of he 
curves/level functions, as you supect. If that is the case, it 
should show up in your histogram as moderate to severe 'combing' in 
the lower end of the scale. Check for combing after flatening any 
layers (including adjustments) and converting to 8-bit. That's what 
your printer driver sees and prints, even if you are seeing a 
respectable histo before flatening.

Steve Karafyllakis

http://www.stevekphoto.com

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Howard 
Slavitt" <howard.slavitt@s...> wrote:
> John:
> 
> Actually, I'm working with a beta version of RAW that does support 
> the D70.  The quality of conversion is very good.  The problem 
I've 
> noted does not appear when printing to color.  I do the conversion 
> into 16 bit.  I'm pretty sure it's a Bayer pattern phenomenon, 
and/or 
> a result of overaggressive use of levels and curves.
> 
> Also, my terminology in my original post was mistaken.  I should 
have 
> said posterization/mottling of deep shadow/black areas.  The 
problem 
> is probably best described as mottling.
> 
> Howard
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "John 
Vitollo" 
> <jvlist@c...> wrote:
> > "Howard Slavitt" <howard.slavitt@s...> wrote:
> > > I recently bought a Nikon D70  BTW, my work flow is to shoot 
in 
> > > raw, and use the Photoshop Camera Raw plug in.  I work 
entirely 

> in 16 bit.  
> > 
> > Photoshop Camera Raw does not suppport the D70 at this time...it 
> will open the raw file 
> > but as you can see the quality is not there yet.