Digital BW, The Print

My old Epson 1160 has finally died. I'm going to be deciding on 
another printer and I think I'm going to try a different inkset too. 

I use my printer almost exclusively for proofing before going into 
the conventional darkroom. I also use it for small run promo 
mailings. 

I used to use the original MIS quadtones. They were fine for 
proofing but much too warm for the promo mailings in that the 
images didn't match my darkroom prints in tone. 

Then I tried the MIS Variable Tone inks. The tone matched my 
darkroom prints well enough but the workflow was needlessly 
tedious for unimportant proofs. 

Now that I'll be starting over with a new printer, I thought I'd give 
the MIS Full Spectrum Neutral Tone inks a try. Based on my 
stated useage, will the FSNT inks meet my needs?

Thanks,

Scott

* -----Original Message-----
* From: dwells8 [mailto:dwells8@...] 
* Sent: Friday, September 26, 2003 6:18 AM
* To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
* Subject: [Digital BW] Is MIS Full Spectrum Neutral For Me?
* 
* 
* My old Epson 1160 has finally died. I'm going to be deciding on 
* another printer and I think I'm going to try a different inkset too. 
* 
* I use my printer almost exclusively for proofing before going into 
* the conventional darkroom. I also use it for small run promo 
* mailings. 
* 
* I used to use the original MIS quadtones. They were fine for 
* proofing but much too warm for the promo mailings in that the 
* images didn't match my darkroom prints in tone. 
* 
* Then I tried the MIS Variable Tone inks. The tone matched my 
* darkroom prints well enough but the workflow was needlessly 
* tedious for unimportant proofs. 
* 
* Now that I'll be starting over with a new printer, I thought I'd give 
* the MIS Full Spectrum Neutral Tone inks a try. Based on my 
* stated useage, will the FSNT inks meet my needs?
* 
Scott,

You didn't mention whether you were using the warm, neutral or cool curves
with the MIS-VM inks. I found the MIS-FS Neutral inks to be on the cool side
of neutral so if that is to your taste you should like them. Keep in mind
they are meant to be use with the Piezo plug-in (at this point though I
would buy the Image Export BW plug-in from bwguys.com which is the same
software but with support for a larger number of papers.

If you do go this route you then use any of the PiezoTone inks or the
Sundance Cool Neutral as well.

Martin Wesley
http://www.carolyn.cc/Guests/MartinWesley/pages/MW_01.html
http://www.borderless-photos.de/guests.html

I'm just curious, were you using the Roark curves?  If so, what was 
so tedious about applying one set of curves before printing?  You 
could easily have buried that one step in a macro if it was annoying.

mark

...
> * Then I tried the MIS Variable Tone inks. The tone matched my 
> * darkroom prints well enough but the workflow was needlessly 
> * tedious for unimportant proofs. 
...

You can use the FSN-E inkset which is the same other than the having
the  two dilutions necessary to use the Epson driver thereby
eliminating the Piezo need. Then you can use a number of curves
downloadable for free from MIS. This works well for me with my 1280. 
Bob Michaels

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Martin Wesley"
<mwesley250@e...> wrote:
. Keep in mind they are meant to be use with the Piezo plug-in (at
this point though I would buy the Image Export BW plug-in from
bwguys.com which is the same software but with support for a larger
number of papers.

> I'm just curious, were you using the Roark curves?  If so, what was 
> so tedious about applying one set of curves before printing? 

I use my printer mostly for proofing. My proofs can be very far from 
perfect. It's much easier than doing contact sheets. At this particular 
stage I'm only looking for general composition. Quick and dirty. If I 
like it, I'll print it in the darkroom. Adding curves is just an 
anoyance. 

If I'm going to use a particulat image for a promo piece, I will use it 
with a desktop publishing program. If I've added curves to that image, 
then I'm looking at funky colors instead of what the promo piece will 
actually look like. Sure-- I can get by this way if I must. I just 
prefer to see a better representation on the screen. 

Using the original MIS quadtone inks was quick and easy. And when using 
the images in a DP program, I had a much better feel for what my promo 
piece was going to look like while I was working on it. I just didn't 
like the warm tone. I was hoping the Full Spectrum Neutral inks might 
work for me. It looks like they probably won't.

Scott

Scott,

You wrote, in part:

>My old Epson 1160 has finally died. I'm going to be deciding on
>another printer and I think I'm going to try a different inkset too.

I would recommend a 1280 at this point.  I'm working on more and easier
inksets for it.

>I use my printer almost exclusively for proofing before going into
>the conventional darkroom. I also use it for small run promo
>mailings.

>I used to use the original MIS quadtones. They were fine for
>proofing but much too warm for the promo mailings in that the
>images didn't match my darkroom prints in tone.

The FS-N would match the tone of your darkroom prints better than the
original MIS quads.

Do you need RC/glossy papers?  Like the original MIS quads, the FS-N is not
RC compatible (unless sprays/fixatives are used).

>Then I tried the MIS Variable Tone inks. The tone matched my
>darkroom prints well enough but the workflow was needlessly
>tedious for unimportant proofs.

I'm addressing that issue now.  The 1280 is so good partitioning with RGB
curves or otherwise is not necessary.  The driver does a great job of it
with no more workflow needed.  So, we'll have inksets that will print from
any application, while in grayscale mode, with no curves at all.  I'm aiming
the inksets at a wider audience -- in particular the people like my wife who
are deep into genealogy -- who have no interest in Photoshop, curves,
workflows, etc.  Of course, the more particular printers (like most of us on
this forum) will also be able to apply all the usual tools to perfect the
print to a higher level than the average printer cares about.

>Now that I'll be starting over with a new printer, I thought I'd give
>the MIS Full Spectrum Neutral Tone inks a try. Based on my
>stated useage, will the FSNT inks meet my needs?

I agree with Bob Michaels, who wrote:
"You can use the FSN-E inkset which is the same other than the having
the  two dilutions necessary to use the Epson driver thereby
eliminating the Piezo need. Then you can use a number of curves
downloadable for free from MIS."

You can also just make a simple transfer function so that the inkjet print
will match the darkroom print.

This is a good solution, and if you need RC, that solution will be out in a
little while.

Good luck with your printing.

Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com