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Advice on mixing BW inks for C88+

Advice on mixing BW inks for C88+

2016-10-26 by harisashraf@...

Hello everyone,

I am new here and just last month I started printing Black and White. Previously I mainly printed in my darkroom (about ten years).

In order or experiment an learn the process I purchased a C88+ from Epson Website and ordered a set of five cartridges, with both photo and matte, from inksupply.com. I was able to print very nice prints on Luster paper but matte paper was a little too blue for my tastes. I am sure it is pretty neutral but I found out I like Matt images to be a little warm. I used the correct black cartridge in both cases.

I am using Epson Ultra Premium Luster Photo and Ultra Premium Presentation Matte papers, Nikon View for process raw images and Window Photo Viewer to print them. The printer driver is set to gamma 1.8. Although I do have access to Adobe programs, I find Photoshop and Lightroom too cumbersome and complicated. I can get a pretty good idea how my print will look like from the screen and can use the shadow, contrast and exposure sliders to get what I like. After printing a few images on quarter sheet, I can get a nice 8.5x11 print.


Anyway, I went ahead and ordered a set of 120ml bottles and when my order did not arrive in few weeks, I went ahead and bought a liter of ink from inkowl.com and mixed it using the Glycerine formula available from Mr. Paul Roark website. I already had the ingredients I needed. Now I can make really nice prints on Matte paper as the diluted inks are warm (I had to tone it down with some cyan and magenta inks sucked from the OEM cartridges provided with the printer). So, I am satisfied with matte printing and the liter of ink should last me a long long time.


However, the glycerine mixed inks do not print too well on Luster paper. Even after a few days of curing, the prints have a sheen on them that get marked very easily. Also, somehow, they are much warmer then they are on matte paper.


So after three weeks of waiting, I have cancelled my order form inksupply and have decided to mix my own inks and have a completely different set of cartridges for Luster printing. This time not using glycerine.


One option is to purchase Epson inks in Black, Light Black, and Light Light Black for Epson 3880 or similar printer and mix them to get the correct dilutions (25%, 50%, 75% and 100%). Then, I should not need to be worried about the neutrality of the prints. Maybe just minor corrections for tone.


Other option would be to buy gloss optimizer for a printer like R1800 or R800 and photo black for the same printer and mix them to the correct dilutions. I still have about 5-6ml of cyan and magenta and all of yellow inks left in my OEM cartridges and may be able to neutralize any color shifts that dilution may cause.


My question is, what approach will be more successful? I do have a grey card, Kodak separation guide grey scale strip and access to a scanner.


Any advice will be helpful that can save me time, hassle and cost.


Thanks Much,


Haris Ashraf



Re: [Digital BW] Advice on mixing BW inks for C88+

2016-10-26 by Paul Roark

​The generic base (http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Ink-Mixing.pdf) was made to dilute the MIS (www.InkSupply.com) MK ink ("Eboni"). It works with a number of other ones also. However, for glossy printing, the only ones it works with are those that have a glossy coating on the pigment particle. These include HP and Canon. Note that you'll have significant bronzing on many papers. The use of the "amber base" (see below) cures the bronzing.

For my glossy inks I use the MIS​ "amber base" for dilution, starting the the MIS PK. See for example http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Glossy-Carbon-Variable-Tone.pdf.

For the C88 and similar printers, you can mix down a PK with 70% base to 30% PK and have a density that works well in all the color positions. The HP Pk diluted this way is just slightly warmer that dead neutral. The MIS PK (100% carbon) diluted becomes very warm.

With the C88 you can have one cartridge of 100% carbon and a couple of the MIS "neutral" inks to control the color.

Good luck with your inkjet printing. The learning curve can be long, but it's well worth the effort.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com
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On Wed, Oct 26, 2016 at 9:37 AM, harisashraf@... [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint] <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Hello everyone,

I am new here and just last month I started printing Black and White. Previously I mainly printed in my darkroom (about ten years).

In order or experiment an learn the process I purchased a C88+ from Epson Website and ordered a set of five cartridges, with both photo and matte, from inksupply.com. I was able to print very nice prints on Luster paper but matte paper was a little too blue for my tastes. I am sure it is pretty neutral but I found out I like Matt images to be a little warm. I used the correct black cartridge in both cases.

I am using Epson Ultra Premium Luster Photo and Ultra Premium Presentation Matte papers, Nikon View for process raw images and Window Photo Viewer to print them. The printer driver is set to gamma 1.8. Although I do have access to Adobe programs, I find Photoshop and Lightroom too cumbersome and complicated. I can get a pretty good idea how my print will look like from the screen and can use the shadow, contrast and exposure sliders to get what I like. After printing a few images on quarter sheet, I can get a nice 8.5x11 print.


Anyway, I went ahead and ordered a set of 120ml bottles and when my order did not arrive in few weeks, I went ahead and bought a liter of ink from inkowl.com and mixed it using the Glycerine formula available from Mr. Paul Roark website. I already had the ingredients I needed. Now I can make really nice prints on Matte paper as the diluted inks are warm (I had to tone it down with some cyan and magenta inks sucked from the OEM cartridges provided with the printer). So, I am satisfied with matte printing and the liter of ink should last me a long long time.


However, the glycerine mixed inks do not print too well on Luster paper. Even after a few days of curing, the prints have a sheen on them that get marked very easily. Also, somehow, they are much warmer then they are on matte paper.


So after three weeks of waiting, I have cancelled my order form inksupply and have decided to mix my own inks and have a completely different set of cartridges for Luster printing. This time not using glycerine.


One option is to purchase Epson inks in Black, Light Black, and Light Light Black for Epson 3880 or similar printer and mix them to get the correct dilutions (25%, 50%, 75% and 100%). Then, I should not need to be worried about the neutrality of the prints. Maybe just minor corrections for tone.


Other option would be to buy gloss optimizer for a printer like R1800 or R800 and photo black for the same printer and mix them to the correct dilutions. I still have about 5-6ml of cyan and magenta and all of yellow inks left in my OEM cartridges and may be able to neutralize any color shifts that dilution may cause.


My question is, what approach will be more successful? I do have a grey card, Kodak separation guide grey scale strip and access to a scanner.


Any advice will be helpful that can save me time, hassle and cost.


Thanks Much,


Haris Ashraf




Re: [Digital BW] Advice on mixing BW inks for C88+

2016-10-27 by harisashraf@...

Paul,

Thanks for the Advice. I think I will go with Canon inks and it 30% dilution. That will require the least amount of effort and cost.

I found your PDF very useful.

Best Regards,

Haris

Re: [Digital BW] Advice on mixing BW inks for C88+

2016-10-27 by Paul Roark

I have used the Canon Lucia color pigments with both the generic base and MIS amber base. I have never used the Canon PK. I diluted it once and just did not like the color tone. I think it was too warm for me, but it's been too long ago for me to be sure what the color was like. I turned to HP PK for the neutral I was after at that time. So, be clear that I am not in a position to recommend Canon Lucia PK as a starting point. I don't know if the color tone will be what you're looking for.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com
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On Wed, Oct 26, 2016 at 9:53 PM, harisashraf@... [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint] <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Paul,

Thanks for the Advice. I think I will go with Canon inks and it 30% dilution. That will require the least amount of effort and cost.

I found your PDF very useful.

Best Regards,

Haris


Re: [Digital BW] Advice on mixing BW inks for C88+

2016-10-27 by Paul Roark

Good.

This PDF may be of interest.

http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/7800-EbHP-2013.pdf

I used HP PK in a number of inksets and never had any problems with it.

I moved away from the inksets that had carbon + color, neutralized inks because I wanted as many of the jets as possible working all the time, including on 100% carbon prints.

Additionally, I found that the blended carbon + color inks, aside from the OEM versions, tended to separate in wide format printers where the carts did not move with the heads during printing and agitate the inks continuously. HP simply did the best job of making a neutralized carbon ink of any I ever used or tested. So I used it and do not hesitate to recommend it with the dilution bases I've used it with (generic c6b and MIS amber base).

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com
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On Thu, Oct 27, 2016 at 8:47 AM, harisashraf@... [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint] <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Paul,

My Bad! I meant HP Photo Black. I do not know where Canon got into my head.

Sorry for the confusion.

Best Regards,

Haris


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