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Re: Does anyone know if Inksupply.com (MIS Associates, Inc.) has gon

Re: Does anyone know if Inksupply.com (MIS Associates, Inc.) has gon

2016-03-25 by Myron Gochnauer

WJ1082 is the generic for Eboni. Just search for that anywhere. I buy it
from www.printerfillingstation.com.

Andrew

I’m not sure what “generic for Eboni” means in this context. Is it literally the same ink - - same form of carbon, same carrier, same whatever-else-is-in-Eboni - - of a different carbon black ink?

I cannot find any helpful description of the ink of the website, and since the company appears to be appealing to general customers who want to save money, it is not at all certain that they would use a black formulation that is identical to Eboni, which has a photographic market in mind.

Myron

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Does anyone know if Inksupply.com (MIS Associates, Inc.) has gon

2016-03-25 by Paul Roark

"WJ1082" is the product designation for the former Image Specialists ink that MIS sells as "Eboni" MK. STS Inks acquired Image Specialists and continues to use the old IS numbers for those products.

This wj1082 MK ink has changed from the original IS ink. That is why the new "Eboni" from MIS is called "Eboni v. 1.1." STS claims it is the same carbon. I think the difference is that they are using an upgraded dispersant. The new wj1082 (Eb v. 1.1) is not quite as neutral as the original Eboni, but it still has an advantage over the other MK inks I've tested. (I routinely look for better inputs for my inks and printing.)

WF1082 is just the MK, which for Eboni-6 needs to be diluted to make the lighter inks. MIS, of course, sells all of the dilutions of Eboni-6 premixed. Many mix their own lighter inks as needed using my generic dilution base. See http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Ink-Mixing.pdf . I highly recommend the c6b version. That is what I usually use. MIS also sells this base premixed from https://www.inksupply.com/roarkslab.cfm . As with all things MIS sells and does, I have no connection to them and receive no royalties or the like. Everything I do is open source and published for all to use for free.

I started long ago with Jon's Piezo approach and simply found a different approach that, for me, worked better. That has evolved into, today, a series of inksets based on Eboni-6. I do still buy things from IJM occasionally. The 3880 Eboni Variable tone setup used, for example, IJM carts and chips.

The bottom line, however, is that for those who want the best B&W for a lot less money, the more DIY approach can be very rewarding.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com
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On Fri, Mar 25, 2016 at 5:29 AM, Myron Gochnauer goch@... [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint] <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

WJ1082 is the generic for Eboni. Just search for that anywhere. I buy it
from www.printerfillingstation.com.

Andrew

I’m not sure what “generic for Eboni” means in this context. Is it literally the same ink - - same form of carbon, same carrier, same whatever-else-is-in-Eboni - - of a different carbon black ink?

I cannot find any helpful description of the ink of the website, and since the company appears to be appealing to general customers who want to save money, it is not at all certain that they would use a black formulation that is identical to Eboni, which has a photographic market in mind.

Myron


Re: [Digital BW] Re: Does anyone know if Inksupply.com (MIS Associates, Inc.) has gon

2016-03-25 by asharpe@...

Yes, it is the same ink. Paul's QTR profiles work perfectly with it.

Andrew


On Fri, March 25, 2016 5:29 am, Myron Gochnauer goch@...
[DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint] wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> WJ1082 is the generic for Eboni. Just search for that anywhere. I buy it
> from www.printerfillingstation.com<http://www.printerfillingstation.com>.
>
> Andrew
>
>
> I\u2019m not sure what \u201cgeneric for Eboni\u201d means in this context.  Is it
> literally the same ink - - same form of carbon, same carrier, same
> whatever-else-is-in-Eboni - - of a different carbon black ink?
>
> I cannot find any helpful description of the ink of the website, and
> since the company appears to be appealing to general customers who want
> to save money, it is not at all certain that they would use a black
> formulation that is identical to Eboni, which has a photographic market
> in mind.
>
> Myron
>
>
>

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Does anyone know if Inksupply.com (MIS Associates, Inc.) has gon

2016-03-25 by a3rm

For the record, just received a bottle of MIS eboni that had ordered some weeks ago.\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd The order was for 2 bottles and I think the other one has gone into back order according to an email from them.

The seem to have started shipping.

best,\ufffd\ufffd Alex


On 2016-03-25 12:30 PM, asharpe@... [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint] wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
\ufffd

Yes, it is the same ink. Paul's QTR profiles work perfectly with it.

Andrew

On Fri, March 25, 2016 5:29 am, Myron Gochnauer goch@...
[DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint] wrote:
> WJ1082 is the generic for Eboni. Just search for that anywhere. I buy it
> from www.printerfillingstation.com.
>
> Andrew
>
>
> I\u2019m not sure what \u201cgeneric for Eboni\u201d means in this context. Is it
> literally the same ink - - same form of carbon, same carrier, same
> whatever-else-is-in-Eboni - - of a different carbon black ink?
>
> I cannot find any helpful description of the ink of the website, and
> since the company appears to be appealing to general customers who want
> to save money, it is not at all certain that they would use a black
> formulation that is identical to Eboni, which has a photographic market
> in mind.
>
> Myron
>
>
>


Virus-free. www.avast.com

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Does anyone know if Inksupply.com (MIS Associates, Inc.) has gon

2016-03-26 by Paul Roark

I don't know where MIS gets all of its inks. The K4 series was an Image Specialist product. I'm not sure if the mainstream color inks MIS now sells are still from that family. One of the apparent dynamics going on is that the prices of those inputs has increased, and MIS has been looking for alternatives.

I personally liked the k4 base in that it was a gloss optimizer. That made it have a built in resistance to bronzing. It also, however, made it unable to compete for the very high gloss end of the market. In that respect, however, the dyes are so much better, I don't think it's a serious issue.

Having used the K4 carbons for years with good success, I'd be very willing to pay a few more bucks for them if that is what is needed to keep MIS carrying the product line. I'm leaning toward making a glossy version of "Eboni Variable Tone" using the MIS k4 chemistry, assuming it is the same as it was. It would be nice to have MIS on board for this, as the availability of supplies in quantities that are reasonable for individual photographers is very helpful, and despite the current feeding frenzy on MIS, they have been a major supplier of B&W products and accessories for our little B&W market. I think those of us who have used MIS products for years don't appreciate how small our market is. MIS operated out of Bob Zeiss's garage for years.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com
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On Sat, Mar 26, 2016 at 5:27 AM, goch@... [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint] <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Thanks, Paul.


Do you know whether the other "WJ____" inks are the same as the MIS versions? Printerfillingstation has essentially the same price on the bulk inks, so they could be an alternate source when MIS is being balky.

Myron


Re: Does anyone know if Inksupply.com (MIS Associates, Inc.) has gon

2016-04-03 by dacorbell@...

I received the WJ-1082 ink from PrinterFillingStation and did a draw down to compare it to Eboni V1.1. I placed a strip of packing tape at the top of a sheet of Arches hot press, placed a few drops of each ink on the tape, spacing them so they won't run together. I used a glass rod to pull the inks down the paper. After drying I measure: Eboni V 1.1=31.89, 0.72, 1.57; WJ-1082= 31.23, 0.67, 1.49. The Eboni shows mottling, the WJ-1082 does not. I did 3 draw downs, the numbers are all about the same and the mottling/not mottling is the same. Interesting.

BTW the 4800 lays down more ink than this. Eboni V 1.1 on Arches HP, Lab=21.44 at boost 100%.

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Does anyone know if Inksupply.com (MIS Associates, Inc.) has gon

2016-04-04 by Paul Roark

​There are a number of variables in what might be behind the differences.

In the recent draw-down I did of LK density inks, an 18% wj1082 from STS was included. It might be said to be mottled, and this was on inkjet paper. Arches has a much more uneven absorption. I recommend matte inkjet paper for these draw-down tests. For a grayscale version of my complete draw-down, see http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/LK-Draw-Down-4-1-2016.jpg . The labels are probably self-explanatory. I might add that I've seen some variability in product from STS also, though it's not what I'd call unacceptable.

As I noted previously the Epson EcoTank carbon may set the baseline for these third party vendors.​ However, in my testing of that product against Eboni/wj1082, I thought the Eboni/wj1082 was better for my uses.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com


Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Sun, Apr 3, 2016 at 9:30 AM, dacorbell@... [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint] <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

I received the WJ-1082 ink from PrinterFillingStation and did a draw down to compare it to Eboni V1.1. I placed a strip of packing tape at the top of a sheet of Arches hot press, placed a few drops of each ink on the tape, spacing them so they won't run together. I used a glass rod to pull the inks down the paper. After drying I measure: Eboni V 1.1=31.89, 0.72, 1.57; WJ-1082= 31.23, 0.67, 1.49. The Eboni shows mottling, the WJ-1082 does not. I did 3 draw downs, the numbers are all about the same and the mottling/not mottling is the same. Interesting.

BTW the 4800 lays down more ink than this. Eboni V 1.1 on Arches HP, Lab=21.44 at boost 100%.


Re: Does anyone know if Inksupply.com (MIS Associates, Inc.) has gon

2016-04-04 by richard@...

I know Paul Roark does draw downs to measure the color and density of different inks. It might be a quick test to see what an ink does without loading a cartridge and printing with it, but I don't think draw downs (or simply measuring the 100% patch in calibration mode) can accurately illustrate the possible density with a given ink because the paper will actually lose density as it is flooded with ink. To get a clearer understanding of what an ink is capable of just print the black channel from the ink separation image and measure and graph each patch (after force drying it for 2-3 minutes).

I haven't tested the Epson Hot Press, but I've measured countless ink separation images over the last few years. I've been doing tests all day today with Canson Edition Etching shows that the STS Matte Black (v1.1) reaches 1.71 at 30% and a Dmax of 1.73 at 65% before falling back down to 1.56 at 100%. I've included a series of Lab_L measurements of the black channel's ink separation image as an example, but after checking a handful of measurement files I keep for different papers, they all exhibit similar densities for the black channel.

96.93 46.98 38.75 27.95 21.46 18.81 17.50 16.67 16.30 16.14 15.93 15.82 15.72 15.72 15.65 15.63 15.71 15.92 16.41 16.69 17.24
Take a look at this post I wrote a few years ago. The graphs can illustrate what I'm talking about here: Comparing Cone Piezography Shade 1 and MIS Ebony Shade 1. The post uses the old version of the MIS MK, but I have STS MK v 1.1 in the K channel now. I will do an updated post with the new ink at some point... I don't have a full set of the v 1.1 inks here, but I do have some clear base on hand I could use to mix up the STS MK. We'll see how distracted I get this week...
Comparing Cone Piezography Shade 1 and MIS Ebony S...
This post is just an initial demonstration about the differences of the matte black ink between two different third party ink manufacturers' dedicated black and...
View on www.bwmaster...
Preview by Yahoo


Richard Boutwell
http://www.richardboutwell.com/

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Does anyone know if Inksupply.com (MIS Associates, Inc.) has gon

2016-04-04 by Paul Roark

I agree that the draw down is just a quick test. It can, however, provide a lot of information, including on a per hour and expense basis. Labs use these types of tests all the time.

Be aware that STS MK that is sold in their carts is not wj1082. As far as I know they only sell the "Image Specialists" (now a part of STS) "WJ" products at larger volumes and not off their web page. (Image Specialists' founder/chemist who was behind the products, but died, was "Walt.")

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Sun, Apr 3, 2016 at 8:08 PM, richard@... [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint] <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

I know Paul Roark does draw downs to measure the color and density of different inks. It might be a quick test to see what an ink does without loading a cartridge and printing with it, but I don't think draw downs (or simply measuring the 100% patch in calibration mode) can accurately illustrate the possible density with a given ink because the paper will actually lose density as it is flooded with ink. To get a clearer understanding of what an ink is capable of just print the black channel from the ink separation image and measure and graph each patch (after force drying it for 2-3 minutes).


I haven't tested the Epson Hot Press, but I've measured countless ink separation images over the last few years. I've been doing tests all day today with Canson Edition Etching shows that the STS Matte Black (v1.1) reaches 1.71 at 30% and a Dmax of 1.73 at 65% before falling back down to 1.56 at 100%. I've included a series of Lab_L measurements of the black channel's ink separation image as an example, but after checking a handful of measurement files I keep for different papers, they all exhibit similar densities for the black channel.

96.93 46.98 38.75 27.95 21.46 18.81 17.50 16.67 16.30 16.14 15.93 15.82 15.72 15.72 15.65 15.63 15.71 15.92 16.41 16.69 17.24
Take a look at this post I wrote a few years ago. The graphs can illustrate what I'm talking about here: Comparing Cone Piezography Shade 1 and MIS Ebony Shade 1. The post uses the old version of the MIS MK, but I have STS MK v 1.1 in the K channel now. I will do an updated post with the new ink at some point... I don't have a full set of the v 1.1 inks here, but I do have some clear base on hand I could use to mix up the STS MK. We'll see how distracted I get this week...
Comparing Cone Piezography Shade 1 and MIS Ebony S...
This post is just an initial demonstration about the differences of the matte black ink between two different third party ink manufacturers' dedicated black and...
Preview by Yahoo


Richard Boutwell


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