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2015-03-17 by heyward.hart@...
Tried asking this on the Piezo group but came up with nothing, so...
Has anyone taken measurements of a and b values for the various Piezo ink sets on Platine? It would make choosing so much easier since I could compare with what I'm getting via the Epson inks/QTR.
Thanks,
H
2015-03-17 by Elliot Puritz
Hello "H"! Before responding to your question allow me to provide a bit of background concerning the answer provided by Richard Boutwell. Those who read many of the forums concerned with fine art black and white digital printing know that Richard Boutwell is doing some very interesting and informative work in connection with his forth coming EBook about QTR profiles and relevant aspects of digital ink jet printing. Indeed, I suspect that many here and on other forums have read some of Richard's posts. I met Richard some years ago and have developed considerable admiration for the thorough way that he investigates subjects that pertain to aspects of digital capture Until Richard's book is published and available, perhaps the information accessible via the link below will provide some of the information you seek. http://www.bwmastery.com/blog/2015/abw-vs-qtr Good printing! Elliot
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] Sent: Monday, March 16, 2015 8:44 PM To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Digital BW] a and b values on Canson Platine Tried asking this on the Piezo group but came up with nothing, so... Has anyone taken measurements of a and b values for the various Piezo ink sets on Platine? It would make choosing so much easier since I could compare with what I'm getting via the Epson inks/QTR. Thanks, H
2015-03-17 by richard@...
2015-03-17 by David Whistance
Richard Off topic I’m afraid but I wondered if you have tried using several QTR generated profiles for each K6 ink set and blending them to approximate the Cone profiles? E.g. for a six ink printer: Profile 1 - Inks 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, Profile 2 - Inks 1, 2, 4, 6, Profile 3 - Inks 1, 3, 5, each blended at 33% (or 34%) in each of the shadows, mid tones and highlights. It’s a bit of an effort but I do find I get nice smooth transitions and maximise the number of inks firing at any one time. David Whistance
On 17 Mar 2015, at 14:06, richard@... [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint] <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> wrote: > > The only ink sets I have are the carbon and selenium now, and I have pretty much settled on carbon only now and haven't done much work with it on glossy paper. I did a lot of testing with Platine and the K6 Selenium ink set about a year ago, but I recall hearing somewhat recently from Jon that the inkjet receptive coating Canson uses has changed so the measurements I have might not be the same as the current batches of paper. I might be able to make a few test prints with the K6 Carbon on Platine and then graph and post them later this week. > > One thing that I have found when making QTR profiles for different K6 inks sets is that the color will change depending on how much overlap there is with the other inks (of course the QTR curves don't have the same shape as the Piezography curves, but still overlap with 3 or 4 inks at any given point, with the long tail built into the front of the curve rather than the end) > > Richard Boutwell > >
2015-03-17 by richard@...
2015-03-17 by heyward.hart@...
2015-03-18 by jon@...
Canson Rag Photographique and the Baryta Photographique are both ICC'd for soft proofing along with several others from JonCone Studio, Hahnemuhle, Moab and Epson. Download the zip files for all five ink sets - and then preview them on a calibrated display using Photoshop SoftProof. These are not intended for printing - only previewing...
2015-03-18 by brian_downunda@...
Canson Rag Photographique and the Baryta Photographique are both ICC'd for soft proofing along with several others from JonCone Studio, Hahnemuhle, Moab and Epson. Download the zip files for all five ink sets - and then preview them on a calibrated display using Photoshop SoftProof. These are not intended for printing - only previewing...
2015-03-19 by richard@...
2015-03-19 by heyward.hart@...
Jon and Richard- Thank you! This is exactly the kind of information I was looking for. If anyone has values for any other ink sets please chime in, but this at least gives me a good starting point. H
2015-03-21 by Ernst Dinkla
Jon, thanks for linking to the ICC profiles for all the different ink sets. It is actually really helpful for having an understanding of what the profiles are supposed to print on a number of papers.H, If you are on a Mac you can see the measurements that were used to create these icc profile by opening them in the ColorSync Utility (just double clicking the profile should do it)—I'm not sure if/how this is possible on a PC. After you open it you can scroll down and click on row #12 for "DATA" and you'll see the measurements used to create each of the icc profiles. You can then copy and paste that into a spreadsheet and graph the L*ab measurements, or convert L* to Density (if you paste them in a text file, save and drag it to the linearize data script it will do the density conversion for you..)Here is a set of L*ab measurements from an unlinearized K6 QTR profile I made quickly this afternoon with the Cone Carbon inks on Canson Platine. I'm trying to get a blog post finished up with screen shots of the ink distribution and unlinearized curve as an example of how you can smooth these things can be out of the box if you set the cross over points correctly (and use enough overlap). I use protective spray instead of the gloss overprint due to the the way I have the printer set up as a P2 print/digital negative printer, but I was amazed at how much warmer the Carbon inks are on Platine compared to matte papers—I have a few sheets of Epson Exhibition, and Hahnemuhle Photorag Pearl I might be able to profile and compare over the weekend.I dug up the measurements I did last year with the selenium inks on Platine. These are meant to give a ball park undersanding of how Platine handles the two ink sets. If I had more time I would have averaged more readings because there are some erratic values in the lower end of the scale. The second set of measurements (selenium) isn't as straight nor as dense as the first set (carbon). I9;m making profiles differently now compared to how I did a year ago, and it seems to have a big impact on how smooth the unlinearized profile prints. Anyway, like I said, this isn't meant to be written in stone, but to give a rough estimation of how different platine is from the other papers Jon has ICC profiles for.. I have to say, I love love love the Cone Carbon ink set for matte papers, but on Platine it is way to warm, even for me... The selenium set on platine has an almost gold-toned albumen/plum hue that I like a lot too...Cone Carbon on Canson PlatineLab A B 98.11 0.03 0.89 91.83 0.84 3.29 86.04 1.53 5.24 80.47 2.23 6.97 75.08 2.83 8.23 70.18 3.3 9.21 65.16 3.83 10.23 60.87 4.16 10.85 56.07 4.59 11.78 51.71 4.92 12.41 46.97 5.2 12.91 42.25 5.49 13.32 37.57 5.7 13.48 32.68 5.81 13.53 27.32 5.69 12.84 22.66 5.52 12.24 18.19 5.25 11.26 14.27 4.63 9.07 10.38 3.79 6.44 7.27 2.6 3.27 3.62 -0.17 -0.62Cone Selenium on Canson PlatineLab A B 97.24 0.1 0.45 88.42 0.56 1.31 83.62 0.9 1.47 79.45 1.31 1.57 75.52 1.7 1.64 72.19 1.97 1.85 67.49 2.45 2.18 61.6 2.96 2.94 56.84 3.16 3.27 52.26 3.33 3.61 48.28 3.16 3.93 43.07 2.81 3.87 39.23 2.31 3.93 35.01 2.25 3.78 29.51 2.45 3.82 24.62 2.41 3.49 20.69 2.34 3.31 16.77 2.36 3.1 12.93 2.09 3.03 6.65 0.93 2.13Richard Boutwell