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Master printing workshop recommendations

Master printing workshop recommendations

2014-01-02 by Paul Ozzello

Hi all,


While I can make a decent black and white print I am unable to produce a true museum quality print on my Epson 9890. I recently started a sabbatical to pursue a career as a fine art photographer but my printing skills are lacking and there's only so much I can learn on my own or online... Could someone recommend a master printing workshop, or maybe someone you know that would be willing to teach advanced B&W printing one on one ?

Thanks,

Paul


________________________________________________

Paul OZZELLO
Fine art photography
www.paulozzello.com
Tel: +1.514.451.8399

Re: [Digital BW] Master printing workshop recommendations

2014-01-02 by Bill Kennedy

Paul-


I can highly recommend the workshops taught at Cone Editions: http://www.cone-editions.com/workshops.html


Tyler Boley, one of the finest inkjet printers I know, occasionally teaches there. Not sure what part of the country you are in, or how you feel about travel, but if you're interested in one-on-one training check with Tyler: http://www.custom-digital.com


I'll be teaching a one-day workshop on inkjet printing at my university in May, part of a Santa Fe Workshops weekend we are hosting, if that is convenient for you.


Bill Kennedy
Professor of Photocommunications
Area Coordinator
St. Edward's University
Austin, Texas USA
Show quoted textHide quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Ozzello <paul.ozzello@...>
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thu, Jan 2, 2014 1:15 am
Subject: [Digital BW] Master printing workshop recommendations



  
    
                  

Hi all,


While I can make a decent black and white print I am unable to produce a true museum quality print on my Epson 9890. I recently started a sabbatical to pursue a career as a fine art photographer but my printing skills are lacking and there's only so much I can learn on my own or online... Could someone recommend a master printing workshop, or maybe someone you know that would be willing to teach advanced B&W printing one on one ? 


Thanks, 


Paul




________________________________________________


Paul OZZELLO
Fine art photography
www.paulozzello.com
Tel:    +1.514.451.8399
Email: paul.ozzello@...

Re: [Digital BW] Master printing workshop recommendations

2014-01-02 by Robert Damon

You might consider these:

There are probably many others. I took a workshop with Stephen Johnson a few years ago at the Maine Photographic Workshops. It was worthwhile for me.
____________________________________
Robert Damon
Hopkinton, MA 01748



On Jan 2, 2014, at 12:18 AM, Paul Ozzello <paul.ozzello@...> wrote:


Hi all,



While I can make a decent black and white print I am unable to produce a true museum quality print on my Epson 9890. I recently started a sabbatical to pursue a career as a fine art photographer but my printing skills are lacking and there's only so much I can learn on my own or online... Could someone recommend a master printing workshop, or maybe someone you know that would be willing to teach advanced B&W printing one on one ?

Thanks,

Paul


________________________________________________

Paul OZZELLO
Fine art photography
www.paulozzello.com
Tel: +1.514.451.8399


Re: Master printing workshop recommendations

2014-01-02 by Richard Eskin

Check out John Paul Caponigro and Jon Cone (Piezography).

--
Richard Eskin
Richard.Eskin@...
410-825-2503
443-415-0349 (cell)

RichEskinPhoto

We can see the human spirit of a particular age expressed in the landscape, and we can comprehend it with the camera. -- August Sander during a 1931 lecture on the ability of photography to help make sense of one’s environment and circumstances.

A room hung with pictures is a room hung with thoughts. -- Joshua Reynolds

“A clear vision, backed by definite plans, gives you a tremendous feeling of confidence and personal power.” — Brian Tracy

Re: [Digital BW] Master printing workshop recommendations

2014-01-02 by Pamela Holt

Thanks for sharing Cone!

On Jan 2, 2014 10:05 AM, "Bill Kennedy" <BKPhoto@...> wrote:

Paul-


I can highly recommend the workshops taught at Cone Editions: http://www.cone-editions.com/workshops.html

Tyler Boley, one of the finest inkjet printers I know, occasionally teaches there. Not sure what part of the country you are in, or how you feel about travel, but if you're interested in one-on-one training check with Tyler: http://www.custom-digital.com

I'll be teaching a one-day workshop on inkjet printing at my university in May, part of a Santa Fe Workshops weekend we are hosting, if that is convenient for you.

Bill Kennedy
Professor of Photocommunications
Area Coordinator
St. Edward's University
Austin, Texas USA


-----Original Message-----

Show quoted textHide quoted text

From: Paul Ozzello <paul.ozzello@...>
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thu, Jan 2, 2014 1:15 am
Subject: [Digital BW] Master printing workshop recommendations

Hi all,

While I can make a decent black and white print I am unable to produce a true museum quality print on my Epson 9890. I recently started a sabbatical to pursue a career as a fine art photographer but my printing skills are lacking and there's only so much I can learn on my own or online... Could someone recommend a master printing workshop, or maybe someone you know that would be willing to teach advanced B&W printing one on one ?

Thanks,

Paul

________________________________________________

Paul OZZELLO
Fine art photography
www.paulozzello.com
Tel: +1.514.451.8399

Re: [Digital BW] Master printing workshop recommendations

2014-01-02 by David Kachel

While I can make a decent black and white print I am unable to produce a true museum quality print on my Epson 9890. I recently started a sabbatical to pursue a career as a fine art photographer but my printing skills are lacking and there's only so much I can learn on my own or online... Could someone recommend a master printing workshop, or maybe someone you know that would be willing to teach advanced B&W printing one on one ?

Paul,

How do you define "museum quality"? Are you simply referring to the technical aspects of the process, physical image quality? (How to get the most out of your printer and Photoshop?)
Or do you instead mean the aesthetics? Or both?

There are definitely workshops that will teach you the basics of the mechanical side, but only the basics, from what I've seen. Topics such as calibrating your monitor and making profiles, and of course how to dodge and burn in Photoshop which oddly, you shouldn't do! These are actually things that are easy enough to learn and do on your own. You just need to invest in the hardware and software required. Photoshop is every bit the steep hill it is made out to be, but you need only climb it once and having mastered the tools you need, you will realize that any other pretender to the throne would have been wasted time and money.

The current handful of magic beans seems to be that if you calibrate your monitor and make good profiles for whatever papers you are going to use, life will be beautiful and masterpieces will issue forth from your printer. This is utter nonsense. It is a special class of nonsense when it comes to B&W. If you are seriously making B&W fine art photographs, a calibrated monitor and better than standard paper profile will save you, at most, exactly one sheet of paper in the process of working up a good print. Worthwhile of course, but hardy the golden goose it is made out to be. This is all something akin to telling you that if you put new, carefully balanced tires on your car, you are certain to win at Daytona. And once all that special calibration magic is done, and done perfectly, the print that leaves your printer will STILL not look like what you see on your monitor, despite what everyone says. It simply, ain't that easy!

The odd thing about fine art photography instruction is that it took a hard, sharp turn recently, thanks to the advent of digital photography. A lot (most, by far) of the greats chose to remain with analog materials and therefore can't be of any help to you. And most of those workshops tended strongly toward the technical also. I know that for me, the switch from analog to digital has taken the better part of five years and has been a significantly painful process, but much of the pain was my own fault. I forgot past experience that taught me just how much books on analog photography tended to be wrong and I could have saved myself considerable time had I been more distrusting of books on digital photography. (It seems that the people who know the least are almost always the most driven to write books.)

A lot of those who did make the switchover are still approaching the digital process with an analog mindset. Dodging and burning, trying to make digital materials look like analog materials (a particularly silly endeavor; it makes far more sense to try to coax the best out of digital, rather than simply try to make it look like something else). Putting great effort into getting a 'neutral gray' digital image is particularly pointless since neutral gray was never the holy grail so many people appear to believe it to have been. The ultimate silliness is "how to convert your images to grayscale". Properly approached, a color digital original should never be converted to grayscale, despite the fact that a B&W print is the goal. I am appalled by the number of books on the subject that begin with: "convert your image to grayscale". Such books should immediately be thrown in the trash!

There is one practical thing you can do right away that will make an immediate, noticeable difference230;
You can't get a good enough image out of a 12 megapixel, half frame camera for high end B&W images. And yes, I know, every last "expert" out there will say you can. An image simply won't withstand the kind of manipulation required for the type of extensive work you will most certainly require. Remember that film loses nothing as you manipulate it in the analog process. But a digital image loses information every time you do something to it. With a big image from a large sensor, you have lots you can afford to lose. Smaller images and sensors leave you no elbow room at all. The absolute bare minimum, and this has only been affordable the last five or six years, is 25 megapixels or more on a full frame sensor, NEVER a half frame sensor. If I were buying now, I wouldn't hesitate; the best current option by far is the Nikon 800 (the "e" for me).

The first digital camera I bought was 10 megapixels on a smaller sensor.What a gigantic mistake that was! I was making the transition all at once and was eager to make new images digitally. After a few months I was in a real panic because I simply was not getting anything approaching analog quality out of my digital images and all of my analog equipment had been long sold. I thought it was the printer. I then decided to take a break from the frustration and start scanning my film negatives, making test prints from those scans. My image quality jumped sharply. I realized the printer was just fine, but the Olympus SLR digital camera I had been using was a toy and incapable of providing the image quality I needed.

You are going to see people scream at this post and swear I don't know what I am talking about. Their small sensor, low megapixel cameras provide great images, they'll say. You'll have to decide for yourself, but there is one tool you can take advantage of to discover the difference on your own. There are a number of web sites that will allow you to download a sample RAW file made with a camera that interests you. Download a RAW file made with the Nikon 800 (remember, it MUST be RAW: processed files such as jpegs throw away almost everything before you ever see them) process and print it. I did this with a Sony a900 RAW image when I realized it was the Olympus that was making me crazy. The Sony file immediately showed me that I had the wrong camera for serious work. Now, getting a camera that is up to the job won't help you make fine art photographs, but it will make it a possibility. A small sensor, low megapixel camera simply makes it impossible.


David Kachel

___________________

Artist-Photographer
Fine B&W Photographs

www.davidkachel.com
david@...

Gallery:
www.reddoorfinephotographs.com
director@...

PO Box 1893
Alpine, TX 79831
(432) 386-5787

Re: [Digital BW] Master printing workshop recommendations

2014-01-02 by David Whistance

Ignoring David Kachel's rant, some of which I agree with and some of which I don't, I would try to take a workshop with a number of other printers rather than a one-on-one. Whilst there is no doubt that you will almost certainly learn more of the technical bits and pieces with a one-on-one there is nothing quite like seeing prints from other motivated B&W printers to make you think and help move your practice forwards. Then when you have a better defined objective take a one-on-one if necessary to help refine it.

Good luck and have fun.

David Whistance
On 2 Jan 2014, at 05:18, Paul Ozzello <paul.ozzello@...> wrote:


Hi all,



While I can make a decent black and white print I am unable to produce a true museum quality print on my Epson 9890. I recently started a sabbatical to pursue a career as a fine art photographer but my printing skills are lacking and there's only so much I can learn on my own or online... Could someone recommend a master printing workshop, or maybe someone you know that would be willing to teach advanced B&W printing one on one ?

Thanks,

Paul


________________________________________________

Paul OZZELLO
Fine art photography
www.paulozzello.com
Tel: +1.514.451.8399


Re: [Digital BW] Master printing workshop recommendations

2014-01-02 by Paul Ozzello

Hi Bill,

I considered Cone Editions (it's only a 3 hour drive) but was hesitant as most of his workshops are based on Piezography - I would prefer using Epson K3 inks if possible. There are so many varying opinions as to inksets, RIPs, it's making my head spin. I've considered 'outsourcing' my printing but it's costly and complicated and I want to do it myself :). I've had some wonderful results with my old Canon dye based printer but now that I am printing big (44") I've had to resign myself to the duller look of pigment inks.

I would consider traveling if I ';knew' it would be helpful. What does your one-day workshop cover ? Do you offer any 3-4 day courses ?

Many of the workshops I've read about involve taking pictures, raw processing, discovering artistic intent, learning about curves, etc. Not that it wouldn't be beneficial but right now my stumbling block is B&W inkjet printing (or so I think). I have a hybrid workflow that begins with drum scanned black and white roll film negatives - ideally I would like someone to assess and criticize my work and my processing methods and suggest ways of improving them, trying alternative printing methods such as using QTR or ImagePrint. Well at least for starters :)

Paul

________________________________________________

Paul OZZELLO
Fine art photography
www.paulozzello.com
Tel: +1.514.451.8399


On Thu, Jan 2, 2014 at 10:05 AM, Bill Kennedy <BKPhoto@...> wrote:

Paul-


I can highly recommend the workshops taught at Cone Editions: http://www.cone-editions.com/workshops.html

Tyler Boley, one of the finest inkjet printers I know, occasionally teaches there. Not sure what part of the country you are in, or how you feel about travel, but if you're interested in one-on-one training check with Tyler: http://www.custom-digital.com

I'll be teaching a one-day workshop on inkjet printing at my university in May, part of a Santa Fe Workshops weekend we are hosting, if that is convenient for you.

Bill Kennedy
Professor of Photocommunications
Area Coordinator
St. Edward's University
Austin, Texas USA


-----Original Message-----
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: Paul Ozzello <paul.ozzello@...>
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thu, Jan 2, 2014 1:15 am
Subject: [Digital BW] Master printing workshop recommendations

Hi all,

While I can make a decent black and white print I am unable to produce a true museum quality print on my Epson 9890. I recently started a sabbatical to pursue a career as a fine art photographer but my printing skills are lacking and there9;s only so much I can learn on my own or online... Could someone recommend a master printing workshop, or maybe someone you know that would be willing to teach advanced B&W printing one on one ?

Thanks,

Paul

________________________________________________

Paul OZZELLO
Fine art photography
www.paulozzello.com
Tel: +1.514.451.8399


Re: [Digital BW] Master printing workshop recommendations

2014-01-02 by David Whistance

Try contacting Tyler Boley, he uses a Howtek drum scanner for scanning film as well as both K3 and Cone ink sets. If he's willing he'll be able to advise you properly.

David Whistance
On 2 Jan 2014, at 20:45, Paul Ozzello <paul.ozzello@...m> wrote:


Hi Bill,

I considered Cone Editions (it's only a 3 hour drive) but was hesitant as most of his workshops are based on Piezography - I would prefer using Epson K3 inks if possible. There are so many varying opinions as to inksets, RIPs, it's making my head spin. I've considered 'outsourcing' my printing but it's costly and complicated and I want to do it myself :). I've had some wonderful results with my old Canon dye based printer but now that I am printing big (44") I've had to resign myself to the duller look of pigment inks.

I would consider traveling if I 'knew' it would be helpful. What does your one-day workshop cover ? Do you offer any 3-4 day courses ?

Many of the workshops I've read about involve taking pictures, raw processing, discovering artistic intent, learning about curves, etc. Not that it wouldn't be beneficial but right now my stumbling block is B&W inkjet printing (or so I think). I have a hybrid workflow that begins with drum scanned black and white roll film negatives - ideally I would like someone to assess and criticize my work and my processing methods and suggest ways of improving them, trying alternative printing methods such as using QTR or ImagePrint. Well at least for starters :)

Paul

________________________________________________

Paul OZZELLO
Fine art photography
www.paulozzello.com
Tel: +1.514.451.8399


On Thu, Jan 2, 2014 at 10:05 AM, Bill Kennedy <BKPhoto@...> wrote:

Paul-


I can highly recommend the workshops taught at Cone Editions: http://www.cone-editions.com/workshops.html

Tyler Boley, one of the finest inkjet printers I know, occasionally teaches there. Not sure what part of the country you are in, or how you feel about travel, but if you're interested in one-on-one training check with Tyler: http://www.custom-digital.com

I'll be teaching a one-day workshop on inkjet printing at my university in May, part of a Santa Fe Workshops weekend we are hosting, if that is convenient for you.

Bill Kennedy
Professor of Photocommunications
Area Coordinator
St. Edward's University
Austin, Texas USA


-----Original Message-----
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: Paul Ozzello <paul.ozzello@...>
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint <;DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thu, Jan 2, 2014 1:15 am
Subject: [Digital BW] Master printing workshop recommendations

Hi all,

While I can make a decent black and white print I am unable to produce a true museum quality print on my Epson 9890. I recently started a sabbatical to pursue a career as a fine art photographer but my printing skills are lacking and there's only so much I can learn on my own or online... Could someone recommend a master printing workshop, or maybe someone you know that would be willing to teach advanced B&W printing one on one ?

Thanks,

Paul

________________________________________________

Paul OZZELLO
Fine art photography
www.paulozzello.com
Tel: +1.514.451.8399




Re: [Digital BW] Master printing workshop recommendations

2014-01-02 by Mark Sonners

While there may be different opinions on k6 or k7 inksets I don't think there's much argument about the fact that a k6 or k7 set will be a higher standard than any K3 set could possibly be. If you're stuck on just K3 then you've probably already achieved the best it's going to be by just hitting the print button, either with ABW or QTR. IMHO

mark
On Jan 2, 2014, at 12:45 PM, Paul Ozzello wrote:


Hi Bill,

I considered Cone Editions (it's only a 3 hour drive) but was hesitant as most of his workshops are based on Piezography - I would prefer using Epson K3 inks if possible. There are so many varying opinions as to inksets, RIPs, it's making my head spin. I've considered 'outsourcing' my printing but it's costly and complicated and I want to do it myself :). I've had some wonderful results with my old Canon dye based printer but now that I am printing big (44") I've had to resign myself to the duller look of pigment inks.

I would consider traveling if I 'knew' it would be helpful. What does your one-day workshop cover ? Do you offer any 3-4 day courses ?

Many of the workshops I've read about involve taking pictures, raw processing, discovering artistic intent, learning about curves, etc. Not that it wouldn't be beneficial but right now my stumbling block is B&W inkjet printing (or so I think). I have a hybrid workflow that begins with drum scanned black and white roll film negatives - ideally I would like someone to assess and criticize my work and my processing methods and suggest ways of improving them, trying alternative printing methods such as using QTR or ImagePrint. Well at least for starters :)

Paul

________________________________________________

Paul OZZELLO
Fine art photography
www.paulozzello.com
Tel: +1.514.451.8399


On Thu, Jan 2, 2014 at 10:05 AM, Bill Kennedy <BKPhoto@...> wrote:

Paul-


I can highly recommend the workshops taught at Cone Editions: http://www.cone-editions.com/workshops.html

Tyler Boley, one of the finest inkjet printers I know, occasionally teaches there. Not sure what part of the country you are in, or how you feel about travel, but if you're interested in one-on-one training check with Tyler: http://www.custom-digital.com

I'll be teaching a one-day workshop on inkjet printing at my university in May, part of a Santa Fe Workshops weekend we are hosting, if that is convenient for you.

Bill Kennedy
Professor of Photocommunications
Area Coordinator
St. Edward's University
Austin, Texas USA


-----Original Message-----
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: Paul Ozzello <;paul.ozzello@gmail.com>
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thu, Jan 2, 2014 1:15 am
Subject: [Digital BW] Master printing workshop recommendations

Hi all,

While I can make a decent black and white print I am unable to produce a true museum quality print on my Epson 9890. I recently started a sabbatical to pursue a career as a fine art photographer but my printing skills are lacking and there's only so much I can learn on my own or online... Could someone recommend a master printing workshop, or maybe someone you know that would be willing to teach advanced B&W printing one on one ?

Thanks,

Paul

________________________________________________

Paul OZZELLO
Fine art photography
www.paulozzello.com
Tel: +1.514.451.8399




Re: [Digital BW] Master printing workshop recommendations

2014-01-02 by Paul Roark

Paul Ozzello <paul.ozzello@...> wrote:

... I would prefer using Epson K3 inks if possible.

There are so many varying opinions as to inksets, RIPs, it's making my head spin. ...

I no longer teach any workshops, nor to I make any money in ink sales, but we all have our biases.

I'd recommend you learn QTR for you K3 printer. Whether it's going to be smooth enough with only 3 "neutral" inks might depend on your printer and criteria. The ABW Epson driver mode will use more color than I'd like, but it does all some smoothness -- at a cost of longevity and image stability, not to mention a relative lack of control over the process.

I wrote a section in one of the PDFs I made for a workshop that offers a simplified, bare bones overview of how I use QTR. See pages 11 - 18 of http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Eboni-4-Plus.pdf . (The inkset used can be ignored. The basics are going to be the same for the K3 inkset.)

The first page of my PDF noted above give some relative longevity numbers. http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com/ is the fountain head for longevity information. I have not studied the QTR k3 results, but I assume they are much better than the ABW results. Carbon is king in longevity, so the less color used the better from that perspective. Epson color pigs are very good, but I expect their K, LK, and LLK are better (contain more carbon, even if not 100% carbon).

There are probably a lot of pre-made profiles for the K3 approach not only in the QTR download but also with people on the QTR list. See http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/QuadtoneRIP/conversations/messag


... I've had to resign myself to the duller look of pigment inks.

I am pursuing a dual marketing approach at the moment -- carbon for high end, dyes for differentiated products that can be sold cheap and not significantly affect the prices of the carbon prints. So far, so good.


... now my stumbling block is B&W inkjet printing (or so I think).

This list and the QTR forum are the best I've found for getting an education.

... ideally I would like someone to assess and criticize my work and my processing methods and suggest ways of improving them, ...

Workshops can do some of that. I've found going to shows by others in the field and talking to them is real useful. Look at as many B&W museum and gallery shows as you can.

Good luck.

Paul


Re: [Digital BW] Master printing workshop recommendations

2014-01-02 by Paul Ozzello

Thanks David, I just sent a mail to Tyler.


Paul

________________________________________________

Paul OZZELLO
Fine art photography
www.paulozzello.com
Tel: +1.514.451.8399


On Thu, Jan 2, 2014 at 4:15 PM, David Whistance <david.whistance@...> wrote:

Try contacting Tyler Boley, he uses a Howtek drum scanner for scanning film as well as both K3 and Cone ink sets. If he's willing he'll be able to advise you properly.


David Whistance
On 2 Jan 2014, at 20:45, Paul Ozzello <paul.ozzello@gmail.com> wrote:


Hi Bill,

I considered Cone Editions (it's only a 3 hour drive) but was hesitant as most of his workshops are based on Piezography - I would prefer using Epson K3 inks if possible. There are so many varying opinions as to inksets, RIPs, it's making my head spin. I've considered 'outsourcing' my printing but it's costly and complicated and I want to do it myself :). I've had some wonderful results with my old Canon dye based printer but now that I am printing big (44") I've had to resign myself to the duller look of pigment inks.

I would consider traveling if I 'knew' it would be helpful. What does your one-day workshop cover ? Do you offer any 3-4 day courses ?

Many of the workshops I've read about involve taking pictures, raw processing, discovering artistic intent, learning about curves, etc. Not that it wouldn't be beneficial but right now my stumbling block is B&W inkjet printing (or so I think). I have a hybrid workflow that begins with drum scanned black and white roll film negatives - ideally I would like someone to assess and criticize my work and my processing methods and suggest ways of improving them, trying alternative printing methods such as using QTR or ImagePrint. Well at least for starters :)

Paul

________________________________________________

Paul OZZELLO
Fine art photography
www.paulozzello.com
Tel: +1.514.451.8399


On Thu, Jan 2, 2014 at 10:05 AM, Bill Kennedy <BKPhoto@...> wrote:

Paul-


I can highly recommend the workshops taught at Cone Editions: http://www.cone-editions.com/workshops.html

Tyler Boley, one of the finest inkjet printers I know, occasionally teaches there. Not sure what part of the country you are in, or how you feel about travel, but if you're interested in one-on-one training check with Tyler: http://www.custom-digital.com

I'll be teaching a one-day workshop on inkjet printing at my university in May, part of a Santa Fe Workshops weekend we are hosting, if that is convenient for you.

Bill Kennedy
Professor of Photocommunications
Area Coordinator
St. Edward's University
Austin, Texas USA


-----Original Message-----
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: Paul Ozzello <paul.ozzello@gmail.com>
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thu, Jan 2, 2014 1:15 am
Subject: [Digital BW] Master printing workshop recommendations

Hi all,

While I can make a decent black and white print I am unable to produce a true museum quality print on my Epson 9890. I recently started a sabbatical to pursue a career as a fine art photographer but my printing skills are lacking and there's only so much I can learn on my own or online... Could someone recommend a master printing workshop, or maybe someone you know that would be willing to teach advanced B&W printing one on one ?

Thanks,

Paul

________________________________________________

Paul OZZELLO
Fine art photography
www.paulozzello.com
Tel: +1.514.451.8399





Re: [Digital BW] Master printing workshop recommendations

2014-01-02 by Paul Ozzello

Is it really that simple ? I'm getting better results in color mode using ICC profiles than I can with ABW. Haven't tried QTR yet...

I also read a review of ImagePrint on Lula giving better results than piezography, but it's expensive and won't support the 9890 until version 10 (due out shortly).


Paul

________________________________________________

Paul OZZELLO
Fine art photography
www.paulozzello.com
Tel: +1.514.451.8399


On Thu, Jan 2, 2014 at 4:15 PM, Mark Sonners <mark@...m> wrote:

While there may be different opinions on k6 or k7 inksets I don't think there's much argument about the fact that a k6 or k7 set will be a higher standard than any K3 set could possibly be. If you're stuck on just K3 then you've probably already achieved the best it's going to be by just hitting the print button, either with ABW or QTR. IMHO


mark
On Jan 2, 2014, at 12:45 PM, Paul Ozzello wrote:


Hi Bill,

I considered Cone Editions (it's only a 3 hour drive) but was hesitant as most of his workshops are based on Piezography - I would prefer using Epson K3 inks if possible. There are so many varying opinions as to inksets, RIPs, it's making my head spin. I've considered 'outsourcing' my printing but it's costly and complicated and I want to do it myself :). I've had some wonderful results with my old Canon dye based printer but now that I am printing big (44") I've had to resign myself to the duller look of pigment inks.

I would consider traveling if I 'knew' it would be helpful. What does your one-day workshop cover ? Do you offer any 3-4 day courses ?

Many of the workshops I've read about involve taking pictures, raw processing, discovering artistic intent, learning about curves, etc. Not that it wouldn't be beneficial but right now my stumbling block is B&W inkjet printing (or so I think). I have a hybrid workflow that begins with drum scanned black and white roll film negatives - ideally I would like someone to assess and criticize my work and my processing methods and suggest ways of improving them, trying alternative printing methods such as using QTR or ImagePrint. Well at least for starters :)

Paul

________________________________________________

Paul OZZELLO
Fine art photography
www.paulozzello.com
Tel: +1.514.451.8399


On Thu, Jan 2, 2014 at 10:05 AM, Bill Kennedy <;BKPhoto@...> wrote:

Paul-


I can highly recommend the workshops taught at Cone Editions: http://www.cone-editions.com/workshops.html

Tyler Boley, one of the finest inkjet printers I know, occasionally teaches there. Not sure what part of the country you are in, or how you feel about travel, but if you're interested in one-on-one training check with Tyler: http://www.custom-digital.com

I'll be teaching a one-day workshop on inkjet printing at my university in May, part of a Santa Fe Workshops weekend we are hosting, if that is convenient for you.

Bill Kennedy
Professor of Photocommunications
Area Coordinator
St. Edward's University
Austin, Texas USA


-----Original Message-----
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From: Paul Ozzello <paul.ozzello@...>
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thu, Jan 2, 2014 1:15 am
Subject: [Digital BW] Master printing workshop recommendations

Hi all,

While I can make a decent black and white print I am unable to produce a true museum quality print on my Epson 9890. I recently started a sabbatical to pursue a career as a fine art photographer but my printing skills are lacking and there';s only so much I can learn on my own or online... Could someone recommend a master printing workshop, or maybe someone you know that would be willing to teach advanced B&W printing one on one ?

Thanks,

Paul

________________________________________________

Paul OZZELLO
Fine art photography
www.paulozzello.com
Tel: +1.514.451.8399





Re: [Digital BW] Master printing workshop recommendations

2014-01-02 by Paul Ozzello

Lots of interesting information, thanks Paul. I'm interested in QTR. If I understand correctly, I need to create a paper profile myself if I want to be able to preview in Photoshop ? Is a colormunki 'good enough' ? I mostly print on matte paper and my preference so far is Epson Hot Press (Bright and Natural) - seems to have the best dMax using standard inks. Am I better off making my own profiles or finding them online (and if so where ?) Does anyone have a QTR profile for Hot Press Bright ?

I've read so many raving reviews about Imageprint but it costs as much as a piezography conversion.... is it as good as everyone claims ?

Just about to read your pdf :)


Paul

________________________________________________

Paul OZZELLO
Fine art photography
www.paulozzello.com
Tel: +1.514.451.8399
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Thu, Jan 2, 2014 at 4:44 PM, Paul Roark <roark.paul@...> wrote:

Paul Ozzello <paul.ozzello@...> wrote:

... I would prefer using Epson K3 inks if possible.

There are so many varying opinions as to inksets, RIPs, it's making my head spin. ...

I no longer teach any workshops, nor to I make any money in ink sales, but we all have our biases.

I'd recommend you learn QTR for you K3 printer. Whether it's going to be smooth enough with only 3 "neutral" inks might depend on your printer and criteria. The ABW Epson driver mode will use more color than I'd like, but it does all some smoothness -- at a cost of longevity and image stability, not to mention a relative lack of control over the process.

I wrote a section in one of the PDFs I made for a workshop that offers a simplified, bare bones overview of how I use QTR. See pages 11 - 18 of http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Eboni-4-Plus.pdf . (The inkset used can be ignored. The basics are going to be the same for the K3 inkset.)

The first page of my PDF noted above give some relative longevity numbers. http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com/ is the fountain head for longevity information. I have not studied the QTR k3 results, but I assume they are much better than the ABW results. Carbon is king in longevity, so the less color used the better from that perspective. Epson color pigs are very good, but I expect their K, LK, and LLK are better (contain more carbon, even if not 100% carbon).

There are probably a lot of pre-made profiles for the K3 approach not only in the QTR download but also with people on the QTR list. See http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/QuadtoneRIP/conversations/messag


... I've had to resign myself to the duller look of pigment inks.

I am pursuing a dual marketing approach at the moment -- carbon for high end, dyes for differentiated products that can be sold cheap and not significantly affect the prices of the carbon prints. So far, so good.


... now my stumbling block is B&W inkjet printing (or so I think).

This list and the QTR forum are the best I've found for getting an education.

... ideally I would like someone to assess and criticize my work and my processing methods and suggest ways of improving them, ...

Workshops can do some of that. I've found going to shows by others in the field and talking to them is real useful. Look at as many B&W museum and gallery shows as you can.

Good luck.

Paul



Re: [Digital BW] Master printing workshop recommendations

2014-01-03 by Paul Roark

Paul Ozzello <paul.ozzello@...> wrote:

... I'm interested in QTR. If I understand correctly, I need to create a paper profile myself if I want to be able to preview in Photoshop ?

Many use ICCs made with QTR's Create ICC-RGB in order to use PS soft proofing. I don't bother. With B&W, I know the print tones I'm using, and my adjustment curve adjusts for the differences between gray gamma 2.2 that I work in and QTR's straight line printing characteristics. People have their own favorite ways of getting to a screen-print match, for me the relative densities are all I bother to coordinate.


Is a colormunki 'good enough' ?

Many use it. I like the DataColor Spyder. It has a small enough read area that I can get my 21-step test prints on on a letter-size paper horizontally -- allowing a number on one page. I'm not sure of the Color Monki has that small read area. Also, I like the Spyder's text output. I just pull it up in Excel and graph it to see how good the pre-linearized data is. It's also best to view a graph of the Lab A and B values. As photographers we're mostly visually oriented, and those graphs usually are easier for us to relate to than just the numbers by themselves.

I mostly print on matte paper and my preference so far is Epson Hot Press (Bright and Natural) - seems to have the best dMax using standard inks.

It is a very good choice.
Am I better off making my own profiles or finding them online (and if so where ?) Does anyone have a QTR profile for Hot Press Bright ?

With a K3 setup there are probably people on the QTR forum that have profiles that will work. This would be the way to start. After you are comfortable with QTR, you'll probably want to fine tune your hues. That could be part of your own particular style.

I've read so many raving reviews about Imageprint but it costs as much as a piezography conversion.... is it as good as everyone claims ?

I suspect it is very good, but whether it's overkill for B&W is something I can't answer. Others on this list probably use both and can give a good opinion. I like QTR and its very reasonable cost.


Just about to read your pdf :)



>Is it really that simple ? ...

If that comment is referring to QTR, it can be. Start simple. There are lots of nuances that get more complicated, and fine tuning high gamut LM and LC (and maybe Y for warm prints) in a K3 setup can get more difficult. Some people have a lot more trouble with it than others. It probably depends on your background and training.

Paul

Re: [Digital BW] Master printing workshop recommendations

2014-01-03 by Richard Massie

If you are going to use K3 inks, I would strongly recommend Imageprint.

I use it on a 4880 and Piezo SE on a 4800. 

An Hp 3100 is my 44inch and it produces b/w prints that are great.

Rich
Www.rmassiephotography.com



Sent from my iPad
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> On Jan 2, 2014, at 6:46 PM, Paul Ozzello <paul.ozzello@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> Lots of interesting information, thanks Paul. I'm interested in QTR. If I understand correctly, I need to create a paper profile myself if I want to be able to preview in Photoshop ? Is a colormunki 'good enough' ? I mostly print on matte paper and my preference so far is Epson Hot Press (Bright and Natural) - seems to have the best dMax using standard inks. Am I better off making my own profiles or finding them online (and if so where ?) Does anyone have a QTR profile for Hot Press Bright ?
> 
> I've read so many raving reviews about Imageprint but it costs as much as a piezography conversion.... is it as good as everyone claims ?
> 
> Just about to read your pdf :)
> 
> 
> Paul
> 
> ________________________________________________
> 
> Paul OZZELLO
> Fine art photography
> www.paulozzello.com
> Tel:    +1.514.451.8399
> Email: paul.ozzello@...
> 
> 
>> On Thu, Jan 2, 2014 at 4:44 PM, Paul Roark <roark.paul@...> wrote:
>>  
>> Paul Ozzello <paul.ozzello@...> wrote:
>>>  
>>> ... I would prefer using Epson K3 inks if possible.
>>  
>>> There are so many varying opinions as to inksets, RIPs, it's making my head spin. ...
>> 
>> I no longer teach any workshops, nor to I make any money in ink sales, but we all have our biases.
>> 
>> I'd recommend you learn QTR for you K3 printer.  Whether it's going to be smooth enough with only 3 "neutral" inks might depend on your printer and criteria.  The ABW Epson driver  mode will use more color than I'd like, but it does all some smoothness -- at a cost of longevity and image stability, not to mention a relative lack of control over the process.
>> 
>> I wrote a section in one of the PDFs I made for a workshop that offers a simplified, bare bones overview of how I use QTR.  See pages 11 - 18 of http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Eboni-4-Plus.pdf .  (The inkset used can be ignored.  The basics are going to be the same for the K3 inkset.)
>> 
>> The first page of my PDF noted above give some relative longevity numbers.  http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com/ is the fountain head for longevity information.  I have not studied the QTR k3 results, but I assume they are much better than the ABW results.  Carbon is king in longevity, so the less color used the better from that perspective.  Epson color pigs are very good, but I expect their K, LK, and LLK are better (contain more carbon, even if not 100% carbon).
>> 
>> There are probably a lot of pre-made profiles for the K3 approach not only in the QTR download but also with people on the QTR list.  See http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/QuadtoneRIP/conversations/messag
>> 
>> 
>>> ... I've had to resign myself to the duller look of pigment inks. 
>> 
>> I am pursuing a dual marketing approach at the moment -- carbon for high end, dyes for differentiated products that can be sold cheap and not significantly affect the prices of the carbon prints.  So far, so good.
>> 
>> 
>>  
>>> ... now my stumbling block is B&W inkjet printing (or so I think).
>> 
>> This list and the QTR forum are the best I've found for getting an education.  
>>  
>>> ... ideally I would like someone to assess and criticize my work and my processing methods and suggest ways of improving them, ...
>> 
>> Workshops can do some of that.  I've found going to shows by others in the field and talking to them is real useful.  Look at as many B&W museum and gallery shows as you can.
>> 
>> Good luck.
>> 
>> Paul
>> www.PaulRoark.com
>> http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/ 
> 
> 
> 
>

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