Digital BW, The Print

My R1800 is showing its age (5+ years) But a post here recently passed the word that Epson had some refurbed 1400s for sale. I acted immediately and was able to procure one. I haven't even unpacked it yet.

I'm interested in mixing my own inks and am looking at Carbon 6. However, I'm a bit confused as to how to go about it. I found this document on Paul's website:

http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Carbon-6.pdf

However, it lists eight mixing ratios and I think I only need six for the 1400. I have another document which I must have retrieved some time ago, it's called "Easy Mixing & Setup for Carbon-6" and is dated 8-10-2010. It lists mixing ratios for six positions but only requires three different dilutions. But now I can't find that document on Paul's site so I wonder if that approach is no longer recommended.

I think I can handle the mixing... I've already mixed up some C6b base, to use in my non-Eboni slots in the R1800 and that went quite smoothly. I come from a darkroom background, so I found this easy to do. I already had Photo-Flo and Edwal LFN on hand, as well as distilled water. Got some 99% glycerol (sp?) at the local CVS.

Sorry if this is an old question but I did a pretty thorough search on this site with mixed luck.

TIA,

Paul

Hi Paul,

That 2010 PDF is still there, but I'm not sure I'd bother with it.  I'd go
with the standard ratios noted at
http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Eboni-6.pdf and
http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Carbon-6.pdf

If you stay with the standard ratios the standard profiles will work.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

On Sat, Jun 15, 2013 at 3:31 PM, Paul <paulmwhiting@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> My R1800 is showing its age (5+ years) But a post here recently passed the
> word that Epson had some refurbed 1400s for sale. I acted immediately and
> was able to procure one. I haven't even unpacked it yet.
>
> I'm interested in mixing my own inks and am looking at Carbon 6. However,
> I'm a bit confused as to how to go about it. I found this document on
> Paul's website:
>
> http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Carbon-6.pdf
>
> However, it lists eight mixing ratios and I think I only need six for the
> 1400. I have another document which I must have retrieved some time ago,
> it's called "Easy Mixing & Setup for Carbon-6" and is dated 8-10-2010. It
> lists mixing ratios for six positions but only requires three different
> dilutions. But now I can't find that document on Paul's site so I wonder if
> that approach is no longer recommended.
>
> I think I can handle the mixing... I've already mixed up some C6b base, to
> use in my non-Eboni slots in the R1800 and that went quite smoothly. I come
> from a darkroom background, so I found this easy to do. I already had
> Photo-Flo and Edwal LFN on hand, as well as distilled water. Got some 99%
> glycerol (sp?) at the local CVS.
>
> Sorry if this is an old question but I did a pretty thorough search on
> this site with mixed luck.
>
> TIA,
>
> Paul
>
>  
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanks, Paul.

But wouldn't the 8-10-2010 pdf's procedure be simpler, with only three dilutions to make? Or would this approach require non standard profiles?

Also, the Carbon-6 document you pointed me to lists two extra dilutions, LK and LLK. Would I simply mix up the first six, because the 1400 has only six slots, right?

And I can make these up by volume, not only weight, correct?

I'm thinking of getting some 4 oz plastic bottles from MIS, so for example the Y dilution at 2% would be 2.4 cc of Eboni and 117.6 cc of the C6b base (assuming 1 oz = 30 cc). How precise do I need to be? My syringes don't show tenths of a cc!

Regards,

Paul

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Paul Roark <roark.paul@...> wrote:

>
> Hi Paul,
> 
> That 2010 PDF is still there, but I'm not sure I'd bother with it.  I'd go
> with the standard ratios noted at
> http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Eboni-6.pdf and
> http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Carbon-6.pdf
> 
> If you stay with the standard ratios the standard profiles will work.
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com
> 
> On Sat, Jun 15, 2013 at 3:31 PM, Paul <paulmwhiting@...> wrote:
> 
> > **
> >
> >
> > My R1800 is showing its age (5+ years) But a post here recently passed the
> > word that Epson had some refurbed 1400s for sale. I acted immediately and
> > was able to procure one. I haven't even unpacked it yet.
> >
> > I'm interested in mixing my own inks and am looking at Carbon 6. However,
> > I'm a bit confused as to how to go about it. I found this document on
> > Paul's website:
> >
> > http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Carbon-6.pdf
> >
> > However, it lists eight mixing ratios and I think I only need six for the
> > 1400. I have another document which I must have retrieved some time ago,
> > it's called "Easy Mixing & Setup for Carbon-6" and is dated 8-10-2010. It
> > lists mixing ratios for six positions but only requires three different
> > dilutions. But now I can't find that document on Paul's site so I wonder if
> > that approach is no longer recommended.
> >
> > I think I can handle the mixing... I've already mixed up some C6b base, to
> > use in my non-Eboni slots in the R1800 and that went quite smoothly. I come
> > from a darkroom background, so I found this easy to do. I already had
> > Photo-Flo and Edwal LFN on hand, as well as distilled water. Got some 99%
> > glycerol (sp?) at the local CVS.
> >
> > Sorry if this is an old question but I did a pretty thorough search on
> > this site with mixed luck.
> >
> > TIA,
> >
> > Paul
> >
> >  
> >
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Paul <paulmwhiting@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> But wouldn't the 8-10-2010 pdf's procedure be simpler, with only three
> dilutions to make?
>
Yes, that was why I tried it to see if it'd work.  It does, but ...

Or would this approach require non standard profiles?
>

Yes.  The standard ICC and QTR profiles for Eboni/Carbon-6 would not work.
 On the other hand, the Epson driver might work fine with very little
further adjustment.


>
> Also, the Carbon-6 document you pointed me to lists two extra dilutions,
> LK and LLK. Would I simply mix up the first six, because the 1400 has only
> six slots, right?
>

Correct.  The LK and LLK are there for the 7 and 8 ink printers.
 Eboni/Carbon-6 works in all Epson printers.  The primary Eboni-6 PDF --
http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Eboni-6.pdf -- is mostly oriented to the
1400 (now 1430) because that is what most use.  However, it's meant to be
more general than that.



> And I can make these up by volume, not only weight, correct?
>

Yes. The only place there is a significant difference is when mixing the
clear base.  (The glycerol is heavy -- high specific gravity.)



>
> I'm thinking of getting some 4 oz plastic bottles from MIS, ...
>

I usually mix in those also.

> ... How precise do I need to be? My syringes don't show tenths of a cc!
>
If you are mixing 100 ml, syringes are fine.  However, for the lightest
ones you might want to mix from the darker ones.  For example, 6% is 1/3 of
18%, 2% is 1/3 of 6%. So, after you mix the 18% you can use 1:2 ratio
mixing for the very light inks, mixing the 6% from the 18% and then the 2%
from the 6%.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanks, Paul,

I think I'll order two 4 oz bottles for each position, because I envision them not running out all at the same time, and thus painting myself in a corner. I'll get another 16 oz bottle too, so I'll have plenty of base on hand. I'll need a set of carts, of course, maybe two sets. I suppose I'll first load the printer with the supplied color carts, to be sure the printer's working properly. And Epson won't send me a new one if this one is using 3rd party inks. Do I need to flush the system with cleaning carts before I load the black? Seems I read somewhere the lines should clear out the color ink after a few runs and cleaning carts aren't necessary.

I get my 35 ml syringes at a ranch supply store here in Billings... helps to live in cattle country!

So here's what I come up with - how's my math!

K 100 ml Eboni
C  30 ml Eboni + 70 ml base
M  18 ml Eboni + 82 ml base
LC  9 ml Eboni + 91 ml base
LM 33 ml M + 67 ml base 
(should be 33.3 and 66.7, but 33:67 should be close enough, right? Or simpler yet: 30:60 which would give me 90 ml)
Y  33 ml LM + 67 mil base
(likewise)

Again, I'm using the C6b base... I've already mixed a pint (by volume) in fact, am using it in the non-Eboni carts in my R1800.

Paul

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Paul Roark <roark.paul@...> wrote:

> If you are mixing 100 ml, syringes are fine.  However, for the lightest
> ones you might want to mix from the darker ones.  For example, 6% is 1/3 of
> 18%, 2% is 1/3 of 6%. So, after you mix the 18% you can use 1:2 ratio
> mixing for the very light inks, mixing the 6% from the 18% and then the 2%
> from the 6%.
> 
> Paul

I put together the following table that shows how to keep diluting the solution rather than try to measure 2% of 10ml. http://sdrv.ms/SyCTw3 

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul" <paulmwhiting@...> wrote:

>
> My R1800 is showing its age (5+ years) But a post here recently passed the word that Epson had some refurbed 1400s for sale. I acted immediately and was able to procure one. I haven't even unpacked it yet.
> 
> I'm interested in mixing my own inks and am looking at Carbon 6. However, I'm a bit confused as to how to go about it. I found this document on Paul's website:
> 
> http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Carbon-6.pdf
> 
> However, it lists eight mixing ratios and I think I only need six for the 1400. I have another document which I must have retrieved some time ago, it's called "Easy Mixing & Setup for Carbon-6" and is dated 8-10-2010. It lists mixing ratios for six positions but only requires three different dilutions. But now I can't find that document on Paul's site so I wonder if that approach is no longer recommended.
> 
> I think I can handle the mixing... I've already mixed up some C6b base, to use in my non-Eboni slots in the R1800 and that went quite smoothly. I come from a darkroom background, so I found this easy to do. I already had Photo-Flo and Edwal LFN on hand, as well as distilled water. Got some 99% glycerol (sp?) at the local CVS.
> 
> Sorry if this is an old question but I did a pretty thorough search on this site with mixed luck.
> 
> TIA,
> 
> Paul
>

Paul <paulmwhiting@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> I think I'll order two 4 oz bottles for each position, ...
>
That is probably overkill, but there are worse things than having a few
extra 4 oz. bottles around.  Recall that they hold more than 100 ml.  So if
you are very low (not enough for a cart reload) you can still mix a full
100 ml in the bottle.

> ... I suppose I'll first load the printer with the supplied color carts,
>
This is probably not necessary.

 Epson won't send me a new one if this one is using 3rd party inks.
>

The mere fact that third party inks have been in the printer is not that
relevant.  If you call them they'll ask for the product numbers on the ink
carts.  When you send the printer back, they don't want the ink in it.
 However, they may notice the lack of color ink around the inlets.  So, if
there is a problem be sure it's also a problem with the color inks before
calling them or sending it back.


> Do I need to flush the system with cleaning carts before I load the black?
>
It's not necessary.  When I switch from color to B&W I just do 2 cleaning
cycles after the initial load.  (This is on a 1400.)




>
> So here's what I come up with - how's my math!
>
> K 100 ml Eboni
> C 30 ml Eboni + 70 ml base
> M 18 ml Eboni + 82 ml base
> LC 9 ml Eboni + 91 ml base
> LM 33 ml M + 67 ml base
> (should be 33.3 and 66.7, but 33:67 should be close enough, right? Or
> simpler yet: 30:60 which would give me 90 ml)
> Y 33 ml LM + 67 mil base
> (likewise)
>
>
Looks OK.



> Again, I'm using the C6b base... I've already mixed a pint (by volume) in
> fact, am using it in the non-Eboni carts in my R1800.
>

I hope you adjusted for the higher specific gravity of the glycerol when
you mixed the base.

Good luck with the setup.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

All very helpful, Paul, thanks again.

> I hope you adjusted for the higher specific gravity of the glycerol when
> you mixed the base.

Actually, your pdf shows two "recipes" for C6b, one by weight and one by volume. The document does mention specific gravity of the glycerine, but you did the math for us and I simply chose recipe #2, which was by volume.

> Good luck with the setup.

Yep, it was time for me to take the plunge... I've been happy with the 3MK setup but a post by a member here called the 3MK prints "gutsy". Somehow that seems the right word. Sometimes they're a little strong, and not very subtle. That may be the way I'm processing the file, however.

Paul

I'm embarrassed to say I'm not sure which file on the page has that table. I clicked on a few of those but no luck.

Sorry!

Paul

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "remononaz1" <homershannon@...> wrote:
>
> I put together the following table that shows how to keep diluting the solution rather than try to measure 2% of 10ml. http://sdrv.ms/SyCTw3

Paul, this is OT, but just thought I'd say that batch h1 is just in over at Aardenburg. For the 3MK-R1800 setup, it's now at 160 MLux-hrs and the average Delta-e is holding steady at .3 as well as is the 50% patch. Next results due late fall.

Excuse the thread drift everybody!

Paul

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Paul Roark <roark.paul@...> wrote:

>
> Paul <paulmwhiting@...> wrote:
> 
> > **
> >
> >
> > I think I'll order two 4 oz bottles for each position, ...
> >
> That is probably overkill, but there are worse things than having a few
> extra 4 oz. bottles around.  Recall that they hold more than 100 ml.  So if
> you are very low (not enough for a cart reload) you can still mix a full
> 100 ml in the bottle.
> 
> > ... I suppose I'll first load the printer with the supplied color carts,
> >
> This is probably not necessary.
> 
>  Epson won't send me a new one if this one is using 3rd party inks.
> >
> 
> The mere fact that third party inks have been in the printer is not that
> relevant.  If you call them they'll ask for the product numbers on the ink
> carts.  When you send the printer back, they don't want the ink in it.
>  However, they may notice the lack of color ink around the inlets.  So, if
> there is a problem be sure it's also a problem with the color inks before
> calling them or sending it back.
> 
> 
> > Do I need to flush the system with cleaning carts before I load the black?
> >
> It's not necessary.  When I switch from color to B&W I just do 2 cleaning
> cycles after the initial load.  (This is on a 1400.)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >
> > So here's what I come up with - how's my math!
> >
> > K 100 ml Eboni
> > C 30 ml Eboni + 70 ml base
> > M 18 ml Eboni + 82 ml base
> > LC 9 ml Eboni + 91 ml base
> > LM 33 ml M + 67 ml base
> > (should be 33.3 and 66.7, but 33:67 should be close enough, right? Or
> > simpler yet: 30:60 which would give me 90 ml)
> > Y 33 ml LM + 67 mil base
> > (likewise)
> >
> >
> Looks OK.
> 
> 
> 
> > Again, I'm using the C6b base... I've already mixed a pint (by volume) in
> > fact, am using it in the non-Eboni carts in my R1800.
> >
> 
> I hope you adjusted for the higher specific gravity of the glycerol when
> you mixed the base.
> 
> Good luck with the setup.
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Homer,
The X-cell file "Eboni 6 dilutions" needs a user name and password for access.
Cliff