Digital BW, The Print

I have been using and liking Red River's Fine Art White paper. However, when I print with it using the UT-14 ink set, including the Ebony black ink, position #21 in a step scale print never gets beyond 85. This is despite trying several borrowed ICCs and custom made ICCs using the Create ICC tool from QTR. Other than the fact that the ramps never get to 100, they are nicely even. Switching the Ebony black to regular black brings up the level very slightly, but never into the 90s. 

Is this just the nature of the paper or should I be doing something to increase the DMAX?

As is, the paper prints nicely, but lacks the punch of deeper blacks.

"remononaz1" <homershannon@...> wrote:
>
> I have been using and liking Red River's Fine Art White paper.

Is that the Red River Aurora White or some other paper?


> However, when I print with it using the UT-14 ink set, including the Ebony black ink, position #21 in a step scale print never gets beyond 85.


Do you mean that the darkness of the 100% black patch #21 is the same as the darkness of the 85% patch on the 12-step test print?

> This is despite trying several borrowed ICCs and custom made ICCs using the Create ICC tool from QTR. Other than the fact that the ramps never get to 100, they are nicely even.


If the maximum black were at 85%, Create ICC would not make an ICC with that Lab L set of numbers.  You'd get an error message.

One thing that can be done if a paper does hit the dmax to soon (which is usually due to ink limit problems or a poor cross-over) is to use a Photoshop image adjustment curve that ends the ramp at the dmax point.  This goes into Create ICC-RGB along with the linearization data.

> Switching the Ebony black to regular black brings up the level very slightly, but never into the 90s. 


By "regular black" do you mean Claria black?

  
> As is, the paper prints nicely, but lacks the punch of deeper blacks.


It is not a high dmax paper.

The papers I mention at http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/UT14.pdf have reasonable dmaxs.  Try Hahnemuhle Photo Rag as a benchmark for dmax.

Red River's Premium Matte papers usually have a good dmax.



Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Answers are in caps for clarity. I'm not yelling :-)

> "remononaz1" <homershannon@> wrote:
> >
> > I have been using and liking Red River's Fine Art White paper.
> 
> Is that the Red River Aurora White or some other paper?
> 
> IT IS CALLED RED RIVER AURORA ART WHITE OR SOMETIMES AURORA FINE ART WHITE http://www.redrivercatalog.com/browse/aurorawhite.html

> > However, when I print with it using the UT-14 ink set, including the Ebony black ink, position #21 in a step scale print never gets beyond 85.
> 
> 
> Do you mean that the darkness of the 100% black patch #21 is the same as the darkness of the 85% patch on the 12-step test print?
> 
 NO. THE RAMP IS VERY GOOD UP TO ABOUT 70 THEN INSTEAD OF INCREASING AT 5, IT INCREASES AT ABOUT 2-3 AND ONLY GETS TO 85 AT THE 21ST POSITION. IT STAYS LINEAR SO 'CREATE ICC' DOES NOT GENERATE AN ERROR. 

 This is despite trying several borrowed ICCs and custom made ICCs using the Create ICC tool from QTR. Other than the fact that the ramps never get to 100, they are nicely even.
> 
> 
> If the maximum black were at 85%, Create ICC would not make an ICC with that Lab L set of numbers.  You'd get an error message.
> 
> One thing that can be done if a paper does hit the dmax to soon (which is usually due to ink limit problems or a poor cross-over) is to use a Photoshop image adjustment curve that ends the ramp at the dmax point.  This goes into Create ICC-RGB along with the linearization data.

OK. I'LL GIVE THAT A TRY. 
> 
> > Switching the Ebony black to regular black brings up the level very slightly, but never into the 90s. 
> 
> 
> By "regular black" do you mean Claria black?
> 
 ACTUALLY MIS BLACK, BUT FOR THIS DISCUSSION, I THINK THE ANSWER IS 'YES'.  
  
> > As is, the paper prints nicely, but lacks the punch of deeper blacks.
> 
> 
> It is not a high dmax paper. AGREED
> 
> The papers I mention at http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/UT14.pdf have reasonable dmaxs.  Try Hahnemuhle Photo Rag as a benchmark for dmax.
> 
> Red River's Premium Matte papers usually have a good dmax.
> 
> I HAVE SOME POLAR MATTE, THOUGH I'M NOT REAL FOND OF IT. I'LL DO A COMPARISON AND SEE HOW THEY LOOK. I THINK I'M GETTING SIMILAR RESULTS (I'M NOT AT HOME TO GO LOOK RIGHT NOW.) HAHNEMUHLE IS EXPENSIVE, BUT I'LL PLAN TO PICK SOME UP AND GIVE IT A TRY. NO ONE IS PAYING ME FOR MY PRINTS ;-)
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com
>
THANK YOU FOR YOUR HELP.

As is, the paper prints nicely, but lacks the punch of deeper blacks.
It is not a high dmax paper.
The papers I mention at http://www.paulroar k.com/BW- Info/UT14. pdf have 
reasonable dmaxs. Try Hahnemuhle Photo Rag as a benchmark for dmax.
Red River's Premium Matte papers usually have a good dmax.
Paul  www.PaulRoark. com 
*************************************************
I use the RR Premium Matte totally by accident. I live 50 miles from them so 
next day service if I order early. And when I was looking for Matte paper for my 
wife to use for 12 X 12 scrapbooking they had #47 on sale in 24 inch x 98 ft 
rolls. I have a 24 inch cutter so just cut it up to the size I need it comes out 
at a fraction over 10 cents for 8 1/2 X 11 sheets. I have printed with good 
blacks and comparing to this months photo exchange the only paper possibly a 
fraction better was Hanahnemuhle Gloss Baryata, however when I reprinted on HP 
Premium gloss the blacks were as deep so possibly the gloss did a beter job 
rendering a deep black. I am retired and am building my printing area and have 
not purchased the colorometer at this time to make proper measurements this is 
by eye at this time. I am looking at some of te scanner techniques as an interem 
method.
 
Bill Lewis

"remononaz1" <homershannon@...> wrote:

> > ... RED RIVER AURORA ART WHITE OR SOMETIMES AURORA FINE ART WHITE http://www.redrivercatalog.com/browse/aurorawhite.html
> 
> > ... THE RAMP IS VERY GOOD UP TO ABOUT 70 THEN INSTEAD OF INCREASING AT 5, IT INCREASES AT ABOUT 2-3 AND ONLY GETS TO 85 AT THE 21ST POSITION. IT STAYS LINEAR SO 'CREATE ICC' DOES NOT GENERATE AN ERROR. 


The most popular workspaces -- Adobe RGB (1998), sRGB, and for B&W Gray Gamma 2.2 -- all have a characteristic curve that compresses the deep shadow values.  If you are using an ICC and are in one of these spaces, the toe (using old darkroom terms here) will be compressed, almost to the point that you don't see much difference between the values with normal indoor lighting.  Is it possible that is what is happening?


...
>   
> > > As is, the paper prints nicely, but lacks the punch of deeper blacks.

That could be the normal Aurora dmax you're seeing.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

I printed with the natual version and similar problems.

ink limit is at 65% max with black boost to 85.

Mid tone ink limit around 80 -70

Once calibrated its about dmax 1.55 ish

On Eboni-5 less the LC position.My 1400 was a lemon.

I don't get the punch either. When I softproof my files. its very low contrast so I had to raise blacks push white and exposure.  

It look almost like Argyrotype less the warmth

http://www.ephotozine.com/articles/Argyrotype-processing-4694/images/HutAg.jpg

Depending on subject matter its fine like drawing  or overly sentimental 

Works and doesn't work.