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OT - Focus Stacking in Photoshop

OT - Focus Stacking in Photoshop

2011-03-15 by Paul

This is a bit off topic, but I thought some might be interested in what CS5 seems to be able to do quite well now.

See http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Focus%20Stacking.pdf

In addition to extreme depth of field on a tripod, what I find really cool is that with a manual focus lens I can easily fire off 2 hand held shots without taking the camera from my eye with a 24mm at f/11 get everything sufficiently sharp from 1 meter to infinity.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Re: OT - Focus Stacking in Photoshop

2011-03-15 by Rusty Sterling

This is an interesting feature of CS5. Thanks for sharing. I look forward to playing around with this.

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul" <roark.paul@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> This is a bit off topic, but I thought some might be interested in what CS5 seems to be able to do quite well now.
> 
> See http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Focus%20Stacking.pdf
> 
> In addition to extreme depth of field on a tripod, what I find really cool is that with a manual focus lens I can easily fire off 2 hand held shots without taking the camera from my eye with a 24mm at f/11 get everything sufficiently sharp from 1 meter to infinity.
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com
>

Re: OT - Focus Stacking & Dual Focus

2011-03-31 by Paul

Another OT on this technique that I think might be of interest here.

I posted a sample hand held dual focus snapshot at 
http://www.paulroark.com/Dual-Focus-Focus-Stacking.pdf

(The B&W composition was bad, so I left it in color.  Sorry for more OT.)

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Re: [Digital BW] Re: OT - Focus Stacking & Dual Focus

2011-04-01 by Ernst Dinkla

On 04/01/2011 12:19 AM, Paul wrote:
> Another OT on this technique that I think might be of interest here.
>
> I posted a sample hand held dual focus snapshot at
> http://www.paulroark.com/Dual-Focus-Focus-Stacking.pdf
>
> (The B&W composition was bad, so I left it in color.  Sorry for more OT.)
>
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com


Group f/64 must be turning simultaneously in their grave :-)

I wondered about the focusing sequence with a hand held camera, your 
method solves that.

-- 
Met vriendelijke groeten,   Ernst

Try: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/

|      Dinkla Grafische Techniek      |
|         www.pigment-print.com        |
|                 ( unvollendet )                 |

[Digital BW] Re: OT - Focus Stacking & Dual Focus

2011-04-01 by Paul

Ernst Dinkla <edinkla@...> wrote:
>
> >...
> > http://www.paulroark.com/Dual-Focus-Focus-Stacking.pdf

 
> Group f/64 must be turning simultaneously in their grave :-)
> 
> I wondered about the focusing sequence with a hand held camera, your 
> method solves that.

The idea was to be able to do it very quickly and without removing the eye from the camera.  Still, fast moving objects, like this pelican -- http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Pelican-Catalina-3-2011.jpg -- are a problem.  The pelican shot was 50mm f/11 (and is un-sharpened).  I had to fill in a few spots with background cloning around the edge of the bird. 

While I was being lazy and using 3-frame auto-bracketing with auto-exposure, be better approach is to set the exposure manually first.  That avoids the lag time of the bracketing.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Re: [Digital BW] Re: OT - Focus Stacking & Dual Focus

2011-04-01 by Ernst Dinkla

A kind of bracketing for the focus shift would be a nice feature for 
this. Setting the first focus and the steps to infinity done 
automatically for the next frames.



-- 
Met vriendelijke groeten,   Ernst

Try: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/

|      Dinkla Grafische Techniek      |
|         www.pigment-print.com        |
|                 ( unvollendet )                 |

Re: [Digital BW] Re: OT - Focus Stacking & Dual Focus

2011-04-01 by Phillip Kimble

Very interesting article Paul & many thanks for sharing it. It is something I 
never think about in the field..

How did you print medium format negatives using this technique? 




________________________________
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: Paul <roark.paul@...>
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, March 31, 2011 4:19:49 PM
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: OT - Focus Stacking & Dual Focus

  
Another OT on this technique that I think might be of interest here.

I posted a sample hand held dual focus snapshot at 
http://www.paulroark.com/Dual-Focus-Focus-Stacking.pdf

(The B&W composition was bad, so I left it in color. Sorry for more OT.)

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com 




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Digital BW] Re: OT - Focus Stacking & Dual Focus

2011-04-02 by Paul

Ernst Dinkla <edinkla@...> wrote:
>
> 
> A kind of bracketing for the focus shift would be a nice feature for 
> this. Setting the first focus and the steps to infinity done 
> automatically for the next frames.

Definitely.  

The auto-focus cameras could be programed to automate much of this. 

I think pro video cameras have pre-set stops at least at the ends (never had one to play with, however). 

Many AF lenses (e.g., Canon) don't even have an infinity stop where you'd want it.  They need their eye-controlled AF to be linked to a fast dual or multiple-focus system.  

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

RE: [Digital BW] Re: OT - Focus Stacking & Dual Focus

2011-04-02 by Mike Kirwan

The focus past infinity seems to be a growing necessity on modern lenses,
probably due to focus shifts at different temperatures.
 
Fortunately most of my legacy lenses work just great on my D3 along with
focus confirmation, which is good for me due to eyesight not being what it
was 20 years ago.
 
But I do miss the aperture and depth of field indicators on modern lenses.
 
Mike

  _____  
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paul
Sent: Friday, April 01, 2011 5:02 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: OT - Focus Stacking & Dual Focus


  

Ernst Dinkla <edinkla@...> wrote:
>
> 
> A kind of bracketing for the focus shift would be a nice feature for 
> this. Setting the first focus and the steps to infinity done 
> automatically for the next frames.

Definitely. 

The auto-focus cameras could be programed to automate much of this. 

I think pro video cameras have pre-set stops at least at the ends (never had
one to play with, however). 

Many AF lenses (e.g., Canon) don't even have an infinity stop where you'd
want it. They need their eye-controlled AF to be linked to a fast dual or
multiple-focus system. 

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com 






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

RE: [Digital BW] Re: OT - Focus Stacking & Dual Focus

2011-04-02 by Mike Kirwan

I am going to try it out with my Hasselblad this weekend my V-series lenses are well suited to this; take two shots, scan and use the same approach in Photoshop. Might even give it a try with my 4x5 or larger as depth of field is always a challenge when needing to stop down and having to live with slow shutter speeds and having to take reciprocity failure into account. Saving an f-stop or two could make a big difference
 
If I get time to try this out I will see if I can post my results.
 
Mike

  _____  
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Phillip Kimble
Sent: Friday, April 01, 2011 3:53 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: OT - Focus Stacking & Dual Focus


  



Very interesting article Paul & many thanks for sharing it. It is something I 
never think about in the field..

How did you print medium format negatives using this technique? 

________________________________
From: Paul <roark.paul@... <mailto:roark.paul%40gmail.com> >
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com> 
Sent: Thu, March 31, 2011 4:19:49 PM
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: OT - Focus Stacking & Dual Focus

  
Another OT on this technique that I think might be of interest here.

I posted a sample hand held dual focus snapshot at 
http://www.paulroark.com/Dual-Focus-Focus-Stacking.pdf

(The B&W composition was bad, so I left it in color. Sorry for more OT.)

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Digital BW] Re: OT - Focus Stacking & Dual Focus

2011-04-02 by Paul

Phillip Kimble <grimmieoldfart@...> wrote:

> ... 
> How did you print medium format negatives using this technique? 
 

I scanned them, so I had the digital tools of the time available.

The significant recent advance for dual focus workflows, in my view, has been the Photoshop Edit>Auto-Align Layers."  No dual-focus images easily lay over one another without a fair amount of work.  I'd use math to calculate and apply re-sizing, which is necessitated by the different effective focal lengths of the differently focussed shots, but the details could never be perfectly aligned manually.  The Auto Align saves lots of time. 

The Auto-Blend Layers is a step in the right direction and is useful, but it needs manual help, best both before and after the automated step.  A basic Duplicate-Layer & Eraser-Tool workflow handles the aligned layer blending well.

When I have an occasion to handle a dual-focused MF film shot, I'll now try to follow the same basic procedures in Photoshop that I outlined at http://www.paulroark.com/Dual-Focus-Focus-Stacking.pdf

One issue that I'm not sure of is whether the Auto-Align algorithm uses the color information.  If it does (and why not?) then the B&W negatives may not work as well with the system.


Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

[Digital BW] Re: OT - Focus Stacking & Dual Focus

2011-04-02 by Paul

"Mike Kirwan" <mkirwan@...> wrote:
>
> ... I do miss the aperture and depth of field indicators on modern lenses.


There are a number of printed tables that provide DOF info.  For Example, Leica publishes PDFs for its lenses that include DOF charts, and that information is applicable to all full frame 35 mm lenses.

Go to http://en.leica-camera.com/service/downloads/lenses_for_rangefinder_cameras/  
and select the focal length.  I've shown how to download the PDFs at http://www.paulroark.com/Lens-DOF.JPG

A sample of the DOF charts is shown at http://www.paulroark.com/DOF-24mm-f11.JPG 

For the Canon lenses I've marked for DOF, all I need is the f/11 mark. (I think f/11 is a good compromise of DOF and sharpness, so that is what I often use.  I can make good enough estimates for other f-stops if needed.)  For example, for any 24mm lens, when the focus ring is set to infinity, the Leica DOF chart tells me that, at f/11, the DOF goes to as close as 1.7 meters.  Where the 1.7 meter point is on the focus ring, I mark the lens.  I mark the lens on the other side of the center mark at an equal point. 

These marks, of course, use the usual circle of confusion standard that is appropriate for a snap-shot, in my view.  So, I'll only take about half that distance as actually sharp enough to work with.  But, if one shot is with the lens set to infinity and one with the lens set with infinity at the f/11 mark on the lens, each frame will only have to cover half the distance.  

So, this "one mark on any lens" gives me all I need to know. I've actually marked Canon zoom lenses with 3 marks.  That gives me the guides I need for the entire range. 

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Re: [Digital BW] Re: OT - Focus Stacking & Dual Focus

2011-04-02 by Paul Grant

For what is is worth here are some great links.

http://www.dofmaster.com/dofjs.html       A great online tool to calculate DOF.  There is also a version for the iPhone that I find comes in quite handy.    http://www.dofmaster.com/iphone.html

Some other iPhone DOF applications.

http://www.adairsystems.com/photocalc/

http://ax.itunes.apple.com/us/app/f-8-dof-calculator/id290526128?mt=8&ign-impt=clickRef%3DSoftware%2520Page-US-f%252F8%2520DoF%2520Calculator-290526128-Lockup

http://ax.itunes.apple.com/us/app/photobuddy/id290785551?mt=8&ign-impt=clickRef%3DSoftware%2520Page-US-PhotoBuddy-290785551-Lockup

http://ax.itunes.apple.com/us/app/dr-dof/id306707830?mt=8&ign-impt=clickRef%3DSoftware%2520Page-US-Dr%2520DOF-306707830-Lockup

Have fun.

Paul Grant





On Apr 1, 2011, at 6:28 PM, Paul wrote:

> "Mike Kirwan" <mkirwan@...> wrote:
> >
> > ... I do miss the aperture and depth of field indicators on modern lenses.
> 
> There are a number of printed tables that provide DOF info. For Example, Leica publishes PDFs for its lenses that include DOF charts, and that information is applicable to all full frame 35 mm lenses.
> 
> Go to http://en.leica-camera.com/service/downloads/lenses_for_rangefinder_cameras/ 
> and select the focal length. I've shown how to download the PDFs at http://www.paulroark.com/Lens-DOF.JPG
> 
> A sample of the DOF charts is shown at http://www.paulroark.com/DOF-24mm-f11.JPG 
> 
> For the Canon lenses I've marked for DOF, all I need is the f/11 mark. (I think f/11 is a good compromise of DOF and sharpness, so that is what I often use. I can make good enough estimates for other f-stops if needed.) For example, for any 24mm lens, when the focus ring is set to infinity, the Leica DOF chart tells me that, at f/11, the DOF goes to as close as 1.7 meters. Where the 1.7 meter point is on the focus ring, I mark the lens. I mark the lens on the other side of the center mark at an equal point. 
> 
> These marks, of course, use the usual circle of confusion standard that is appropriate for a snap-shot, in my view. So, I'll only take about half that distance as actually sharp enough to work with. But, if one shot is with the lens set to infinity and one with the lens set with infinity at the f/11 mark on the lens, each frame will only have to cover half the distance. 
> 
> So, this "one mark on any lens" gives me all I need to know. I've actually marked Canon zoom lenses with 3 marks. That gives me the guides I need for the entire range. 
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com 
> 
> 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Digital BW] Re: OT - Focus Stacking & Dual Focus

2011-04-02 by Paul

(URL corrected)

> For the Canon lenses I've marked for DOF, all I need is the f/11 mark.

This is an example of what I've been doing for a long time in terms of marking Canon lenses with DOF guides: 
http://www.paulroark.com/Canon-50-200L.jpg

(BTW, this older 50 - 200 L f3.5-4.5, fluorite elements at all, with added 72 mm non-rotating filter ring and built-in aluminum barn-door lens shade is available for cheap to someone who wants a non-IS Canon L zoom. [off list] Photo-do used to have the MTF for this one. At f/11 and 85mm this zoom usually out-shot my 85mm f/1.8 at f/11.)

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Re: [Digital BW] Re: OT - Focus Stacking & Dual Focus

2011-04-02 by Gary Brown

This subject has nothing to do with what this forum is about. 

If anyone is interested in this subject, list your e-mail address in your post and
share information with them privately.

Please, no posts that say "I for one find this interesting". It really doesn't matter,
this is still not the place.

Gary

www.garyallenbrownphoto.com
Show quoted textHide quoted text
-- Original Message ----- 
  From: Paul 
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2011 8:57 AM
  Subject: [Digital BW] Re: OT - Focus Stacking & Dual Focus


    
  (URL corrected)

  > For the Canon lenses I've marked for DOF, all I need is the f/11 mark.

  This is an example of what I've been doing for a long time in terms of marking Canon lenses with DOF guides: 
  http://www.paulroark.com/Canon-50-200L.jpg

  (BTW, this older 50 - 200 L f3.5-4.5, fluorite elements at all, with added 72 mm non-rotating filter ring and built-in aluminum barn-door lens shade is available for cheap to someone who wants a non-IS Canon L zoom. [off list] Photo-do used to have the MTF for this one. At f/11 and 85mm this zoom usually out-shot my 85mm f/1.8 at f/11.)

  Paul
  www.PaulRoark.com



  

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

RE: [Digital BW] Re: OT - Focus Stacking & Dual Focus

2011-04-02 by Mike Kirwan

Hmm, digital black & white printing. So if I want a print that displays
added depth of field, then techniques to achieve that are off limits. Seems
a little draconian to me. If not your cup of tea you can always ignore
posts/topics that don't interest you.
 
I, for one, found this thread quite educational.
 
Mike

  _____  
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Gary
Brown
Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2011 10:10 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: OT - Focus Stacking & Dual Focus


  

This subject has nothing to do with what this forum is about. 

If anyone is interested in this subject, list your e-mail address in your
post and
share information with them privately.

Please, no posts that say "I for one find this interesting". It really
doesn't matter,
this is still not the place.

Gary

www.garyallenbrownphoto.com

-- Original Message ----- 




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Re: OT - Focus Stacking & Dual Focus

2011-04-02 by Sam McCandless

On Apr 2, 2011, at 10:10 AM, Gary Brown wrote:

> This subject has nothing to do with what this forum is about.

Yes it does; Gary, and it also had "OT" at the beginning of the  
subject line.


> If anyone is interested in this subject, list your e-mail address in  
> your post and
> share information with them privately.
>
> Please, no posts that say "I for one find this interesting". It  
> really doesn't matter,
> this is still not the place.

With the "OT", I think it is the place for anything directly upstream  
of B&W digital printing, and while I also think your complaint is  
arguably correct, I do believe it should have been sent to the  
moderators rather than to the participants in the thread.
--
Sam

Re: [Digital BW] Re: OT - Focus Stacking & Dual Focus

2011-04-03 by Tina Manley

How much trouble is it to hit "delete" if you are not interested?  I've
never understood complaints about too much e-mail and I get over 600 a day.
 Just hit delete!

Tina

On Sat, Apr 2, 2011 at 1:10 PM, Gary Brown <baffin@...> wrote:

>
>
> This subject has nothing to do with what this forum is about.
>
> If anyone is interested in this subject, list your e-mail address in your
> post and
> share information with them privately.
>
> Please, no posts that say "I for one find this interesting". It really
> doesn't matter,
> this is still not the place.
>
> Gary
>
> www.garyallenbrownphoto.com
>
> --
Tina Manley, ASMP
www.tinamanley.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Re: OT - Focus Stacking & Dual Focus

2011-04-03 by andy bessette

No.

There's a good reason to limit what is OT.

Andy

--- On Sat, 4/2/11, Tina Manley <images@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: Tina Manley <images@comporium.net>
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: OT - Focus Stacking & Dual Focus
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, April 2, 2011, 5:16 PM

How much trouble is it to hit "delete" if you are not interested?  I've
never understood complaints about too much e-mail and I get over 600 a day.
 Just hit delete!

Tina




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Digital BW] Re: OT - Focus Stacking & Dual Focus

2011-04-03 by HarryB

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Tina Manley <images@...> wrote:
>
> How much trouble is it to hit "delete" if you are not interested?  I've
> never understood complaints about too much e-mail and I get over 600 a day.
>  Just hit delete!
> 
> Tina
> 

FYI, it's quicker if you choose "select all" first.  :-)

Re: [Digital BW] Re: OT - Focus Stacking & Dual Focus

2011-04-03 by -= Chris =-

Hi Tina,

It's important to 'police', and the righteous need to remind us when we err, and to keep us down the straight path.

It's a religious action, not to waver and keep to the path.  I hate to have to hit the delete key. It pains my index finger.

I discovered the concept here of stacking, but since it was not supposed to be, I had to flush my mind of what I read.  Unfortunately, what has been seen cannot be undone.


----- "Tina Manley" <images@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> How much trouble is it to hit "delete" if you are not interested? 
> I've
> never understood complaints about too much e-mail and I get over 600 a
> day.
>  Just hit delete!
> 
> Tina

Re: [Digital BW] Re: OT - Focus Stacking & Dual Focus

2011-04-03 by Ernst Dinkla

Well you could consider the number of on-topic messages of the thread 
starter before judging his off-topic behaviour.  Another check is what 
the ones keeping this list on the right track contribute on practical, 
on-topic information.


-- 
Met vriendelijke groeten,   Ernst

Try: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/

|      Dinkla Grafische Techniek      |
|         www.pigment-print.com        |
|                 ( unvollendet )                 |

[Digital BW] Re: OT - Focus Stacking & Dual Focus

2011-04-03 by HarryB

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, -= Chris =- <baudec@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Tina,
> 
> It's important to 'police', and the righteous need to remind us when we err, and to keep us down the straight path.
> 

Let those without sin cast the first stone.

[Digital BW] Re: OT - Focus Stacking & Dual Focus

2011-04-03 by Paul

The appropriate scope of this forum is certainly an issue about which reasonable people may differ.  I thought the focus stacking workflow was on the fringe, so I tried to label is as such. However, the appropriate scope for "digital B&W printing" does have some uncertainty in it.  There is certainly more to B&W printing than ink.  And it is worth discussing this issue.

Relevant to this is Ernst's initial reaction:
 
> Group f/64 must be turning simultaneously in their grave :-)

That B&W photographers' group was famous for their efforts to have virtually everything in focus.  Given the influence of that group's work and that approach on current B&W aesthetics, mine included, the focus stacking and ease with which we can now accomplish that seemed to have a sufficient nexus with digital B&W printing to be of interest to more than a few members of this group. 

In a similar vein, Roy and I have recently discussed what topics would be of most interest to those who join us in our summer High Sierra workshop.  Obviously we're most knowledgeable about specific B&W technical topics.  However, while we will clearly cover ink and QTR issues, some of the highest interest is with respect to digital processing.  This is very often as applicable to color as B&W.  However, the bottom line is that the topics have wide appeal.

The truth is, as reflected in the number of posts on this forum over the years, the mysteries of digital B&W printing have largely been answered.  We will continue to learn more about the medium and continue to refine it, but the inkjet market is much more mature than it was when this forum was started.  We can debate the advantages of having more gray channels than the K3 approach, but the market has largely spoken.  Those of us who pursue the dedicated B&W inksets are most like the "alternative process" wet darkroom types at this point. That's fine with me, but there is a rather unique pool of talent and community of interest here that probably also includes those things that go into making what we think of as a fine B&W print.

Framing and material that go into that end of the work are illustrative of the topics that have been very useful but not directly part of B&W printing.

On the digital capture front, methods of RGB to grayscale conversion are often issues that come up.

There's more to it than inks and rips.  What the limits are, however, is uncertain and worth discussing.  Do we need a new forum?  I hope not.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

[Digital BW] Re: OT - Focus Stacking & Dual Focus

2011-04-03 by HarryB

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul" <roark.paul@...> wrote:
>
>  There is certainly more to B&W printing than ink.   

C'mon Paul, you're gonna confuse poor little Tina. :-)  

Harry 
maybe paper too, 
relax tina

Re: [Digital BW] Re: OT - Focus Stacking & Dual Focus

2011-04-03 by Roger Sopher

I couldn't agree with Paul more. What ends up on the wall starts with the camera image and ends with the paper. That's a lot of latitude. Tunnel vision is rarely a desirable trait.

Roger

On Apr 3, 2011, at 11:20 AM, Paul wrote:

> The appropriate scope of this forum is certainly an issue about which reasonable people may differ. I thought the focus stacking workflow was on the fringe, so I tried to label is as such. However, the appropriate scope for "digital B&W printing" does have some uncertainty in it. There is certainly more to B&W printing than ink. And it is worth discussing this issue.
> 
> Relevant to this is Ernst's initial reaction:
> 
> > Group f/64 must be turning simultaneously in their grave :-)
> 
> That B&W photographers' group was famous for their efforts to have virtually everything in focus. Given the influence of that group's work and that approach on current B&W aesthetics, mine included, the focus stacking and ease with which we can now accomplish that seemed to have a sufficient nexus with digital B&W printing to be of interest to more than a few members of this group. 
> 
> In a similar vein, Roy and I have recently discussed what topics would be of most interest to those who join us in our summer High Sierra workshop. Obviously we're most knowledgeable about specific B&W technical topics. However, while we will clearly cover ink and QTR issues, some of the highest interest is with respect to digital processing. This is very often as applicable to color as B&W. However, the bottom line is that the topics have wide appeal.
> 
> The truth is, as reflected in the number of posts on this forum over the years, the mysteries of digital B&W printing have largely been answered. We will continue to learn more about the medium and continue to refine it, but the inkjet market is much more mature than it was when this forum was started. We can debate the advantages of having more gray channels than the K3 approach, but the market has largely spoken. Those of us who pursue the dedicated B&W inksets are most like the "alternative process" wet darkroom types at this point. That's fine with me, but there is a rather unique pool of talent and community of interest here that probably also includes those things that go into making what we think of as a fine B&W print.
> 
> Framing and material that go into that end of the work are illustrative of the topics that have been very useful but not directly part of B&W printing.
> 
> On the digital capture front, methods of RGB to grayscale conversion are often issues that come up.
> 
> There's more to it than inks and rips. What the limits are, however, is uncertain and worth discussing. Do we need a new forum? I hope not.
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com 
> 
> 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Re: OT - Focus Stacking & Dual Focus

2011-04-03 by Tina Manley

Me relax?  I'm the one who was saying just hit delete if you don't want to
read a post.  I agree 100% that there is more to Digital Black and White
than paper and ink.

Tina

On Sun, Apr 3, 2011 at 11:47 AM, HarryB <hrblaine@...> wrote:

>
>
>
>
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul" <roark.paul@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > There is certainly more to B&W printing than ink.
>
> C'mon Paul, you're gonna confuse poor little Tina. :-)
>
> Harry
> maybe paper too,
> relax tina
>
>
> --
Tina Manley, ASMP
www.tinamanley.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Digital BW] Re: OT - Focus Stacking & Dual Focus

2011-04-03 by HarryB

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Tina Manley <images@...> wrote:
>
> Me relax?  I'm the one who was saying just hit delete if you don't want to
> read a post.  I agree 100% that there is more to Digital Black and White
> than paper and ink.
> 
Whoa!  Sorry!!!  I thot you started the OT thread.  Let me tell you Tina, it's hell to get old!  :-) 

Harry 
80 if i live 10 more days

Re: OT - Focus Stacking & Dual Focus

2011-04-03 by Tom Fielder

I agree with Mike.  I am very appreciative of Paul for his willingness to
share his practices - ALL of which are, IMHO, directly connected with
printing!

Re: OT - Focus Stacking & Dual Focus

2011-04-03 by dlruckus

No need to defend Paul.He is quite capable of doing that for himself.
One thought though.Given his approach to this with film scans in the "olden days" it comes to mind that the image sizing and mathematics methods might even have some application to improving slightly out of focus areas in any image.That could include single legacy shots that could be helped.It might even be better used with color to black and white conversions.Even today with digital captures it seems that a major problem has been color fringing which, to me, is very similar in effect to other focus issues.At micro scale it's always been there with color film as well, leading to multiple emulsion construction and quality difficulties in manufacture and use.

JMHO, I have no problem with conversations that can help toward improving anything along the way to the end point of a print in hand or on the wall.We can always learn new things.

Regards,
Duane


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul" <roark.paul@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> The appropriate scope of this forum is certainly an issue about which reasonable people may differ.  I thought the focus stacking workflow was on the fringe, so I tried to label is as such. However, the appropriate scope for "digital B&W printing" does have some uncertainty in it.  There is certainly more to B&W printing than ink.  And it is worth discussing this issue.
>  
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com
>

Re: [Digital BW] Re: OT - Focus Stacking & Dual Focus

2011-04-03 by Tina Manley

I will forgive you if you promise not to refer to me again as "poor little
Tina"!!!!!

Tina
(standing up for the definite minority of females here)

www.tinamanley.com

On Sun, Apr 3, 2011 at 4:11 PM, HarryB <hrblaine@...> wrote:

>
>
>
>
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Tina Manley <images@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > Me relax? I'm the one who was saying just hit delete if you don't want to
> > read a post. I agree 100% that there is more to Digital Black and White
> > than paper and ink.
> >
> Whoa! Sorry!!! I thot you started the OT thread. Let me tell you Tina, it's
> hell to get old! :-)
>
> Harry
> 80 if i live 10 more days
>
>
>
-- 
Tina Manley, ASMP
www.tinamanley.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Digital BW] Re: OT - Focus Stacking & Dual Focus

2011-04-04 by HarryB

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Tina Manley <images@...> wrote:
>
> I will forgive you if you promise not to refer to me again as "poor little Tina"!!!!!  

No problem.  Maybe pretty Tina?  

Harry 
Or would that be too sexist for you?

Re: OT - Focus Stacking & Dual Focus

2011-04-04 by Paul

"dlruckus" <dlruckus@...> wrote:
>
> 
> ... film scans in the "olden days" ...

(I still have my favorite MF film cameras and a freezer with lots of MF Tech Pan in it, not to mention 25 years of MF negs [not in the freezer].  I do understand those who stay with or go back to film.  There is some magic in a B&W neg that is just not there in a digital file. But then the digital file has its own magic also.)


> it comes to mind that the image sizing and mathematics methods might even have some application to improving slightly out of focus areas in any image.

I've read of some people doing work to "decode" out of focus areas.  The math they are using is well beyond my rudimentary undergrad math.


> It might even be better used with color to black and white conversions.  Even today with digital captures it seems that a major problem has been color fringing which, to me, is very similar in effect to other focus issues.

Very interesting observation.  At least some of the fringing may be due to the fact that lenses are just slightly different focal lengths for the different colors.

My conversion process almost always uses a "split channels" step.  This results in 3 B&W images, each filtered with either a red, green or blue filter. With very good lenses, these should be perfectly aligned already, but with a lens that fringes badly, they won't be.  

I have not tried this, but these could be made into layers and then the "Edit > Auto-Align Layers" routine used.  This just might eliminate the fringing.  I suspect the layers could then also be re-assembled for color work as well as simply making sharper B&W images.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Re: OT - Focus Stacking & Dual Focus

2011-04-04 by lgrrrb@bellsouth.net

Sharp-cut filters (when shooting in color OR black & white) definitely improve image sharpness because they eliminates chromatic aberrations that blur images and produce colored fringes. 

Better quality filters which make spectral cuts more sharply work better than lower quality filters. 

Green filters usually work better than red or blue since most lenses are corrected chromatically for green. Apochromatic lenses are the exception. 

Randy Bresee
www.RandallRBreseePhoto.com


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul" <roark.paul@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> My conversion process almost always uses a "split channels" step.  This results in 3 B&W images, each filtered with either a red, green or blue filter. With very good lenses, these should be perfectly aligned already, but with a lens that fringes badly, they won't be.  
> 
> I have not tried this, but these could be made into layers and then the "Edit > Auto-Align Layers" routine used.  This just might eliminate the fringing.  I suspect the layers could then also be re-assembled for color work as well as simply making sharper B&W images.
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com

Re: [Digital BW] Re: OT - Focus Stacking & Dual Focus

2011-04-04 by pdesmidt tds.net

On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 10:38 AM, lgrrrb@...
<lgrrrb@...>wrote:

>
>
> Sharp-cut filters (when shooting in color OR black & white) definitely
> improve image sharpness because they eliminates chromatic aberrations that
> blur images and produce colored fringes.
>
> Better quality filters which make spectral cuts more sharply work better
> than lower quality filters.
>
> Green filters usually work better than red or blue since most lenses are
> corrected chromatically for green. Apochromatic lenses are the exception.
>
> Randy Bresee
> www.RandallRBreseePhoto.com
>
>
I remember an article in one the technical magazine back in the 90s that
showed the sharpness gain that using a green filter could provide.   With
the lenses used in the article the results were pretty dramatic.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: OT - Focus Stacking & Dual Focus

2011-04-04 by Paul

"lgrrrb@..." <lgrrrb@...> wrote:
>
> Sharp-cut filters (when shooting in color OR black & white) definitely improve image sharpness because they eliminates chromatic aberrations that blur images and produce colored fringes. 

The sharpest on-film image I ever saw in my resolution testing of lenses and B&W films used a B+W red filter on a Nikon 50 mm lens, using Agfa 25 film.  On film I could readily separate 200 lp/mm.

(I think that red filter would probably be considered within the definition of "sharp cut" filters at http://www.hoyaoptics.com/color_filter/sharp_cut.htm .)


> Green filters usually work better than red or blue since most lenses are corrected chromatically for green. 

Yes, and that was a setback for B&W photography, in my view.  Some of my older very good optics, for example the Zeiss optics for the Rollei SL66, were better with a red filter than the newer versions of the lenses.  My hypothesis is that as color film started to dominate, the lens companies adjusted their optical formulas to stress green more, giving up some resolution at the old red and blue points that used to be used in optical design.

Our digital sensors also usually have 2 green pixels.  I suspect that could make for lower noise there. 

I usually find in digital that the blue channel is the noisiest.  Green and red are very close.  Blue is a higher energy light, going toward UV.  So, I can see where even for color work or B&W, those sharp cut off filters might be useful.  I'm waiting for a "sky light" filter for one optic and will see if that has any impact.  I'm hesitant to cut off too much blue, because I also find it can sometimes reach into shadows better.  Even noisy detail might be better than none.


>Apochromatic lenses are the exception. 

Expensive exception...

As a Canon rep. once told me, the trick is not to be able to make the absolute best optics, but to make the best ones possible at price points that are appropriate for the target markets.    


Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Re: OT - Focus Stacking & Dual Focus

2011-04-04 by lgrrrb@bellsouth.net

I started using sharp-cut filters routinely back when digital imaging was so new that most acceptable devices recorded only black & white images. I observed HUGE improvements in image sharpness when using a high-quality filter (usually green). Since digital image quality back then was generally poor and I was developing automated image processing/image analysis software, a large improvement in image quality was a huge boost to success. 

By the way, I shoot only film now... 

Randy Bresee
www.RandallRBreseePhoto.com


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul" <roark.paul@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> "lgrrrb@" <lgrrrb@> wrote:
> >
> > Sharp-cut filters (when shooting in color OR black & white) definitely improve image sharpness because they eliminates chromatic aberrations that blur images and produce colored fringes. 
> 
> The sharpest on-film image I ever saw in my resolution testing of lenses and B&W films used a B+W red filter on a Nikon 50 mm lens, using Agfa 25 film.  On film I could readily separate 200 lp/mm.
> 
> (I think that red filter would probably be considered within the definition of "sharp cut" filters at http://www.hoyaoptics.com/color_filter/sharp_cut.htm .)
> 
> 
> > Green filters usually work better than red or blue since most lenses are corrected chromatically for green. 
> 
> Yes, and that was a setback for B&W photography, in my view.  Some of my older very good optics, for example the Zeiss optics for the Rollei SL66, were better with a red filter than the newer versions of the lenses.  My hypothesis is that as color film started to dominate, the lens companies adjusted their optical formulas to stress green more, giving up some resolution at the old red and blue points that used to be used in optical design.
> 
> Our digital sensors also usually have 2 green pixels.  I suspect that could make for lower noise there. 
> 
> I usually find in digital that the blue channel is the noisiest.  Green and red are very close.  Blue is a higher energy light, going toward UV.  So, I can see where even for color work or B&W, those sharp cut off filters might be useful.  I'm waiting for a "sky light" filter for one optic and will see if that has any impact.  I'm hesitant to cut off too much blue, because I also find it can sometimes reach into shadows better.  Even noisy detail might be better than none.
> 
> >Apochromatic lenses are the exception. 
> 
> Expensive exception...
> 
> As a Canon rep. once told me, the trick is not to be able to make the absolute best optics, but to make the best ones possible at price points that are appropriate for the target markets.    
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com

Re: OT - Focus Stacking & Dual Focus

2011-04-05 by Glenn

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul" <roark.paul@...> wrote:
>
> "dlruckus" <dlruckus@> wrote:
> >
> > 
> > ... film scans in the "olden days" ...
> 
> (I still have my favorite MF film cameras and a freezer with lots of MF Tech Pan in it, not to mention 25 years of MF negs [not in the freezer].  I do understand those who stay with or go back to film.  There is some magic in a B&W neg that is just not there in a digital file. But then the digital file has its own magic also.)
> 
> 
> > it comes to mind that the image sizing and mathematics methods might even have some application to improving slightly out of focus areas in any image.
> 
> I've read of some people doing work to "decode" out of focus areas.  The math they are using is well beyond my rudimentary undergrad math.
> 
> 
> > It might even be better used with color to black and white conversions.  Even today with digital captures it seems that a major problem has been color fringing which, to me, is very similar in effect to other focus issues.
> 
> Very interesting observation.  At least some of the fringing may be due to the fact that lenses are just slightly different focal lengths for the different colors.
> 
> My conversion process almost always uses a "split channels" step.  This results in 3 B&W images, each filtered with either a red, green or blue filter. With very good lenses, these should be perfectly aligned already, but with a lens that fringes badly, they won't be.  
> 
> I have not tried this, but these could be made into layers and then the "Edit > Auto-Align Layers" routine used.  This just might eliminate the fringing.  I suspect the layers could then also be re-assembled for color work as well as simply making sharper B&W images.
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com
>
Most if not all of the panoramic (stitching) creation software can correct for lateral chromatic aberration. 

Hugin is an open source option and there are two others that I know of and have used PTAssembler, there is also PTGui and for anyone on a Mac there is PTMac.

These all use to some degree the library of math functions created originally by Professor Helmut Dersch, a German physics professor, who kindly donated his work to the world.

These above software, or some branches from the panorama software also has options for focus stacking and exposure stacking (yes HDR is the term ommonly used) but there are good and bad uses of that technique.

Anyway just thought I'd mention that for anyone interested in investigating the possibilities

BTW the sharpening of out of focus (reconstruction of image data) is called deconvolution.

I saw an example years ago when a paedophile was caught fro a photo that he'd run a swirl filter on his face to hide his identity and a technician had unswirled the result to recreate the photo

Glenn

Re: OT - Focus Stacking & Dual Focus

2011-04-07 by Paul

My PDF on the Dual Focus workflow is now strictly B&W, with a few other samples, at 

http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Dual-Focus-Focus-Stacking.pdf

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Re: [Digital BW] Re: OT - Focus Stacking & Dual Focus

2011-08-13 by Ernst Dinkla

On 04/01/2011 09:16 PM, Ernst Dinkla wrote:
>
> A kind of bracketing for the focus shift would be a nice feature for
> this. Setting the first focus and the steps to infinity done
> automatically for the next frames.

Paul,

Getting back to this; there are some remote solutions to control 
focusing on DSLRs usually a USB connection is needed. For example:
http://www.breezesys.com/DSLRRemotePro/features.htm
http://www.okii.net/product_p/ct-001.htm?1=1&CartID=0

With more remote controllers/software available including iPhone and 
Android versions I think focus bracketing could be added to the software 
features if not available already.


-- 
Met vriendelijke groeten,   Ernst

Try: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/

|      Dinkla Grafische Techniek      |
|         www.pigment-print.com        |
|                 ( unvollendet )                 |

[Digital BW] Re: OT - Focus Stacking & Dual Focus

2011-08-14 by Paul

It was inevitable that people would find a way to automate this.  Now Canon has to do so internally and quickly enough to do hand held.

It looks like there is a free software package for merging the focus stacks.  I'm still doing it manually for the most part.  I'll give that free software a try on one of my recent stacks and see how it works.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com 

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Ernst Dinkla <edinkla@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> On 04/01/2011 09:16 PM, Ernst Dinkla wrote:
> >
> > A kind of bracketing for the focus shift would be a nice feature for
> > this. Setting the first focus and the steps to infinity done
> > automatically for the next frames.
> 
> Paul,
> 
> Getting back to this; there are some remote solutions to control 
> focusing on DSLRs usually a USB connection is needed. For example:
> http://www.breezesys.com/DSLRRemotePro/features.htm
> http://www.okii.net/product_p/ct-001.htm?1=1&CartID=0
> 
> With more remote controllers/software available including iPhone and 
> Android versions I think focus bracketing could be added to the software 
> features if not available already.
> 
> 
> -- 
> Met vriendelijke groeten,   Ernst
> 
> Try: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/
> 
> |      Dinkla Grafische Techniek      |
> |         www.pigment-print.com        |
> |                 ( unvollendet )                 |
>

Re: OT - Focus Stacking & Dual Focus

2011-08-14 by Bert

Paul,
   I have been doing focus stacking for 15 years.  I started doing it manually, of course, before the term was coined.  The first program I purchased was Helicon Focus.  Then I upgraded to the Pro version.  Recently ( a year ago) I purchased Zerene.  It works better than Helicon, almost no haloing, better color fidelity, less cropping for the composited image, and more forgiving of variations in exposures.  Its only drawback for me is that it averages 4 seconds per image and Helicon is 2 seconds per image.  Since I rarely go beyond 20 that is not a deal breaker for me.

BertGF

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul" <roark.paul@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> It was inevitable that people would find a way to automate this.  Now Canon has to do so internally and quickly enough to do hand held.
> 
> It looks like there is a free software package for merging the focus stacks.  I'm still doing it manually for the most part.  I'll give that free software a try on one of my recent stacks and see how it works.
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Ernst Dinkla <edinkla@> wrote:
> >
> > On 04/01/2011 09:16 PM, Ernst Dinkla wrote:
> > >
> > > A kind of bracketing for the focus shift would be a nice feature for
> > > this. Setting the first focus and the steps to infinity done
> > > automatically for the next frames.
> > 
> > Paul,
> > 
> > Getting back to this; there are some remote solutions to control 
> > focusing on DSLRs usually a USB connection is needed. For example:
> > http://www.breezesys.com/DSLRRemotePro/features.htm
> > http://www.okii.net/product_p/ct-001.htm?1=1&CartID=0
> > 
> > With more remote controllers/software available including iPhone and 
> > Android versions I think focus bracketing could be added to the software 
> > features if not available already.
> > 
> > 
> > -- 
> > Met vriendelijke groeten,   Ernst
> > 
> > Try: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/
> > 
> > |      Dinkla Grafische Techniek      |
> > |         www.pigment-print.com        |
> > |                 ( unvollendet )                 |
> >
>

[Digital BW] Re: OT - Focus Stacking & Dual Focus

2011-08-14 by jrschwaller

The Promote Control has released beta firmware for focus stacking on Canon.

https://support.promotesystems.com/index.php?_m=knowledgebase&_a=viewarticle&kbarticleid=17 

I have one and it works great for HDR, time lapse, and, now, focus stacking.

There is also an Android app for DSLR control https://market.android.com/details?id=eu.chainfire.dslrcontroller 

While this does not have the functions of the Promote Control, one could expect that it could be added in the future.

John

Re: [Digital BW] Re: OT - Focus Stacking & Dual Focus

2011-08-14 by Michael King

Bert,

very interesting that you've found something better than Helicon - I didn't
realise there was anything else. Have you used Zerene for just macro
photography or for more general subjects as well (such as landscape) ?

Txs,

Mike

On 14 August 2011 13:37, Bert <bertgf@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> Paul,
> I have been doing focus stacking for 15 years. I started doing it manually,
> of course, before the term was coined. The first program I purchased was
> Helicon Focus. Then I upgraded to the Pro version. Recently ( a year ago) I
> purchased Zerene. It works better than Helicon, almost no haloing, better
> color fidelity, less cropping for the composited image, and more forgiving
> of variations in exposures. Its only drawback for me is that it averages 4
> seconds per image and Helicon is 2 seconds per image. Since I rarely go
> beyond 20 that is not a deal breaker for me.
>
> BertGF
>
>
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul" <roark.paul@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > It was inevitable that people would find a way to automate this. Now
> Canon has to do so internally and quickly enough to do hand held.
> >
> > It looks like there is a free software package for merging the focus
> stacks. I'm still doing it manually for the most part. I'll give that free
> software a try on one of my recent stacks and see how it works.
> >
> > Paul
> > www.PaulRoark.com
> >
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Ernst Dinkla
> <edinkla@> wrote:
> > >
> > > On 04/01/2011 09:16 PM, Ernst Dinkla wrote:
> > > >
> > > > A kind of bracketing for the focus shift would be a nice feature for
> > > > this. Setting the first focus and the steps to infinity done
> > > > automatically for the next frames.
> > >
> > > Paul,
> > >
> > > Getting back to this; there are some remote solutions to control
> > > focusing on DSLRs usually a USB connection is needed. For example:
> > > http://www.breezesys.com/DSLRRemotePro/features.htm
> > > http://www.okii.net/product_p/ct-001.htm?1=1&CartID=0
> > >
> > > With more remote controllers/software available including iPhone and
> > > Android versions I think focus bracketing could be added to the
> software
> > > features if not available already.
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst
> > >
> > > Try: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/
> > >
> > > | Dinkla Grafische Techniek |
> > > | www.pigment-print.com |
> > > | ( unvollendet ) |
> > >
> >
>
>  
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Re: OT - Focus Stacking & Dual Focus

2011-08-15 by Steve Kale

Another big vote for Zerene.  Fantastic support on the photomacrography forums also.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On 14 Aug 2011, at 20:20, Michael King wrote:

> Bert,
> 
> very interesting that you've found something better than Helicon - I didn't
> realise there was anything else. Have you used Zerene for just macro
> photography or for more general subjects as well (such as landscape) ?
> 
> Txs,
> 
> Mike
>

[Digital BW] Re: OT - Focus Stacking & Dual Focus

2011-08-15 by Bert

Mike,
   I do not have any general experience.  I photography flowers exclusively. Look at my website to see my range.  www.cameraflora.com  I do not have any experience beyond the scope of table still-lifes.

BertGF

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Michael King <drmrking@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> Bert,
> 
> very interesting that you've found something better than Helicon - I didn't
> realise there was anything else. Have you used Zerene for just macro
> photography or for more general subjects as well (such as landscape) ?
> 
> Txs,
> 
> Mike
> 
>

Re: [Digital BW] Re: OT - Focus Stacking & Dual Focus

2012-09-29 by Ernst Dinkla

Paul, getting back to this topic, with a Nexus 7 bought recently after 
its launch in EU there was my chance to use the Android DSLR Controller 
app  made by Chainfire (actually a Dutch company J.B.Jongma) to control 
my 5D II. I guess the most feature rich DSLR controller available and 
still improving. Very impressed by it. You need a USB TGO cable for the 
Nexus or whatever compatible Android

http://dslrcontroller.com/

Focus bracketing aboard since January with gradual improvements after 
that according the development log. Is nice and flexible in use.

Did you use it?
What is the preferred stacker software now, Zerene was mentioned, 
Helicon too?


> It was inevitable that people would find a way to automate this. Now
> Canon has to do so internally and quickly enough to do hand held.
>
> It looks like there is a free software package for merging the focus
> stacks. I'm still doing it manually for the most part. I'll give that
> free software a try on one of my recent stacks and see how it works.
>
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com
>
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>, Ernst Dinkla
> <edinkla@...> wrote:
>  >
>  > On 04/01/2011 09:16 PM, Ernst Dinkla wrote:
>  > >
>  > > A kind of bracketing for the focus shift would be a nice feature for
>  > > this. Setting the first focus and the steps to infinity done
>  > > automatically for the next frames.
>  >
>  > Paul,
>  >
>  > Getting back to this; there are some remote solutions to control
>  > focusing on DSLRs usually a USB connection is needed. For example:
>  > http://www.breezesys.com/DSLRRemotePro/features.htm
>  > http://www.okii.net/product_p/ct-001.htm?1=1&CartID=0
>  >
>  > With more remote controllers/software available including iPhone and
>  > Android versions I think focus bracketing could be added to the software
>  > features if not available already.
>  >
>  >
>  > --
>  > Met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst
>  >
>  > Try: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/




-- 
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

Dinkla Grafische Techniek
Quad, pi\ufffdzografie, gicl\ufffde
www.pigment-print.com

Re: [Digital BW] OT - Focus Stacking & Dual Focus

2012-09-29 by Steve Kale

I have both Helicon and Zerene.  I never use Helicon anymore. In my view, Zerene is leagues better and the support Rik offers via www.photomacrography.net is second to none.

(I built a rig with dual Stackshot rails)


On 29 Sep 2012, at 11:29, Ernst Dinkla wrote:

> Paul, getting back to this topic, with a Nexus 7 bought recently after 
> its launch in EU there was my chance to use the Android DSLR Controller 
> app made by Chainfire (actually a Dutch company J.B.Jongma) to control 
> my 5D II. I guess the most feature rich DSLR controller available and 
> still improving. Very impressed by it. You need a USB TGO cable for the 
> Nexus or whatever compatible Android
> 
> http://dslrcontroller.com/
> 
> Focus bracketing aboard since January with gradual improvements after 
> that according the development log. Is nice and flexible in use.
> 
> Did you use it?
> What is the preferred stacker software now, Zerene was mentioned, 
> Helicon too?
> 
> > 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Re: OT - Focus Stacking & Dual Focus

2012-09-29 by Paul Roark

Hi Ernst,

I have not used the software you mention yet, though I will look into it.
 I'm convinced the auto-everything camera manufacturers will integrate this
feature into their systems at some point.

I find I do a lot of manual work still.  I should actually rephrase that a
bit.  I find that my manual work usually produces better results, probably
because there is movement between the frames.  The movement is both from
the fact that I now hand hold most shots (a huge change from the past) and
the subject matter moves.  A good example is the first shot at
http://www.paulroark.com/Yosemite.html .  The waves on Lake Tenaya not only
threw the software off, but the final that it produced did not coordinate
them in a sensible fashion.

With most of my shooting, 2 frames or a maximum 3 frames (the left side of
http://www.paulroark.com/Notre-Dame-View.jpg) are enough to get the depth
of focus I need.  Most often a 2-shot is covering a sweeping landscape like
Lake Tenaya.  It is so easy to manually merge this type of shot, that I
don't see much need for software.  Where a Helicon is really needed is with
the macro photography where there are lots of shots, and, importantly, the
camera is on a tripod and the subject does not move.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

On Sat, Sep 29, 2012 at 3:29 AM, Ernst Dinkla
<e.dinkla@...>wrote:

> **
>
>
> Paul, getting back to this topic, with a Nexus 7 bought recently after
> its launch in EU there was my chance to use the Android DSLR Controller
> app made by Chainfire (actually a Dutch company J.B.Jongma) to control
> my 5D II. I guess the most feature rich DSLR controller available and
> still improving. Very impressed by it. You need a USB TGO cable for the
> Nexus or whatever compatible Android
>
> http://dslrcontroller.com/
>
> Focus bracketing aboard since January with gradual improvements after
> that according the development log. Is nice and flexible in use.
>
> Did you use it?
> What is the preferred stacker software now, Zerene was mentioned,
> Helicon too?
>
> > It was inevitable that people would find a way to automate this. Now
> > Canon has to do so internally and quickly enough to do hand held.
> >
> > It looks like there is a free software package for merging the focus
> > stacks. I'm still doing it manually for the most part. I'll give that
> > free software a try on one of my recent stacks and see how it works.
> >
> > Paul
> > www.PaulRoark.com
> >
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> > <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>, Ernst Dinkla
> > <edinkla@...> wrote:
> > >
> > > On 04/01/2011 09:16 PM, Ernst Dinkla wrote:
> > > >
> > > > A kind of bracketing for the focus shift would be a nice feature for
> > > > this. Setting the first focus and the steps to infinity done
> > > > automatically for the next frames.
> > >
> > > Paul,
> > >
> > > Getting back to this; there are some remote solutions to control
> > > focusing on DSLRs usually a USB connection is needed. For example:
> > > http://www.breezesys.com/DSLRRemotePro/features.htm
> > > http://www.okii.net/product_p/ct-001.htm?1=1&CartID=0
> > >
> > > With more remote controllers/software available including iPhone and
> > > Android versions I think focus bracketing could be added to the
> software
> > > features if not available already.
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst
> > >
> > > Try: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/
>
> --
> Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst
>
> Dinkla Grafische Techniek
> Quad, piëzografie, giclée
> www.pigment-print.com
>
>  
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Re: OT - Focus Stacking & Dual Focus

2012-09-29 by Ernst Dinkla

On 09/29/2012 05:28 PM, Paul Roark wrote:
> Hi Ernst,
>
> I have not used the software you mention yet, though I will look into it.
> I'm convinced the auto-everything camera manufacturers will integrate this
> feature into their systems at some point.
>
> I find I do a lot of manual work still. I should actually rephrase that a
> bit. I find that my manual work usually produces better results, probably
> because there is movement between the frames. The movement is both from
> the fact that I now hand hold most shots (a huge change from the past) and
> the subject matter moves. A good example is the first shot at
> http://www.paulroark.com/Yosemite.html . The waves on Lake Tenaya not only
> threw the software off, but the final that it produced did not coordinate
> them in a sensible fashion.
>
> With most of my shooting, 2 frames or a maximum 3 frames (the left side of
> http://www.paulroark.com/Notre-Dame-View.jpg) are enough to get the depth
> of focus I need. Most often a 2-shot is covering a sweeping landscape like
> Lake Tenaya. It is so easy to manually merge this type of shot, that I
> don't see much need for software. Where a Helicon is really needed is with
> the macro photography where there are lots of shots, and, importantly, the
> camera is on a tripod and the subject does not move.
>
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com
>

Canon could not have chosen a better moment than the introduction of the 
5D III for that feature. I did not happen. There is third party firmware 
for older Canons that has some form of it so they must have been aware 
of the possibility.

Well there is something to say for a larger display and still be able to 
fit that tablet in a pocket coat.

Forgotten to add the Photohop CS5 automated routes possible in stacking. 
It looks like it could do the job too and still offer manual editing steps.


-- 
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

Dinkla Grafische Techniek
Quad, pi\ufffdzografie, gicl\ufffde
www.pigment-print.com

Re: [Digital BW] OT - Focus Stacking & Dual Focus

2012-09-29 by Steve Kale

You can use EOS Utility

http://www.photomacrography.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=14569


On 29 Sep 2012, at 16:56, Ernst Dinkla wrote:

> On 09/29/2012 05:28 PM, Paul Roark wrote:
> > Hi Ernst,
> >
> > I have not used the software you mention yet, though I will look into it.
> > I'm convinced the auto-everything camera manufacturers will integrate this
> > feature into their systems at some point.
> >
> > I find I do a lot of manual work still. I should actually rephrase that a
> > bit. I find that my manual work usually produces better results, probably
> > because there is movement between the frames. The movement is both from
> > the fact that I now hand hold most shots (a huge change from the past) and
> > the subject matter moves. A good example is the first shot at
> > http://www.paulroark.com/Yosemite.html . The waves on Lake Tenaya not only
> > threw the software off, but the final that it produced did not coordinate
> > them in a sensible fashion.
> >
> > With most of my shooting, 2 frames or a maximum 3 frames (the left side of
> > http://www.paulroark.com/Notre-Dame-View.jpg) are enough to get the depth
> > of focus I need. Most often a 2-shot is covering a sweeping landscape like
> > Lake Tenaya. It is so easy to manually merge this type of shot, that I
> > don't see much need for software. Where a Helicon is really needed is with
> > the macro photography where there are lots of shots, and, importantly, the
> > camera is on a tripod and the subject does not move.
> >
> > Paul
> > www.PaulRoark.com
> >
> 
> Canon could not have chosen a better moment than the introduction of the 
> 5D III for that feature. I did not happen. There is third party firmware 
> for older Canons that has some form of it so they must have been aware 
> of the possibility.
> 
> Well there is something to say for a larger display and still be able to 
> fit that tablet in a pocket coat.
> 
> Forgotten to add the Photohop CS5 automated routes possible in stacking. 
> It looks like it could do the job too and still offer manual editing steps.
> 
> -- 
> Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst
> 
> Dinkla Grafische Techniek
> Quad, pi�zografie, gicl�e
> www.pigment-print.com
> 
> 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Re: OT - Focus Stacking & Dual Focus

2012-09-29 by Paul Roark

Ernst,

> ...
>
> Canon could not have chosen a better moment than the introduction of the
> 5D III for that feature. I[t] did not happen. ...
>


Actually, I wonder if powerful auto-focus-stacking is going to wait for the
mirror-less TTL cameras.  The flopping mirror and some of the other ways in
which a traditional DLSR works may not be the best, going forward.  I think
the evolution of live view, and the supporting chip and software
development are the among most interesting trends today.

 Paul
www.PaulRoark.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] OT - Focus Stacking & Dual Focus

2012-09-29 by Paul Roark

Steve Kale <stevekale@...> wrote:
> You can use EOS Utility
>
> http://www.photomacrography.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=14569
>

Yes, that is what the software is good at -- no movement of any type
among the frames.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Re: [Digital BW] Re: OT - Focus Stacking & Dual Focus

2012-09-30 by Ernst Dinkla

On 09/29/2012 11:23 PM, Paul Roark wrote:
> Ernst,
>
>  > ...
>  >
>  > Canon could not have chosen a better moment than the introduction of the
>  > 5D III for that feature. I[t] did not happen. ...
>  >
>
> Actually, I wonder if powerful auto-focus-stacking is going to wait for the
> mirror-less TTL cameras. The flopping mirror and some of the other ways in
> which a traditional DLSR works may not be the best, going forward. I think
> the evolution of live view, and the supporting chip and software
> development are the among most interesting trends today.
>
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The Android DSLR Controller app locks up the mirror right away when 
focus bracketing is done. I still have to check what it delivers but 
with a Sigma 50mm macro and large steps it goes from Infinity to 3 
meters in 5 steps.


-- 
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

Dinkla Grafische Techniek
Quad, pi\ufffdzografie, gicl\ufffde
www.pigment-print.com

Re: OT - Focus Stacking & Dual Focus

2012-09-30 by Bert

I, too, have both Zerene and Helicon Focus.  Zerene is the best.  I have been doing focus stacking for 15 years, before it was even called focus stacking.  Back then I used layers and masks in Photoshop.  Zerene will actully stack some of my old film scans Helicon will not.  Helicon has ghosting artifacts where, using the same files, Zerene does not.  Zerene takes approximately 4 seconds for each of my exposures in a stack: Helicon takes 2.  Other stacking programs which I tested 1-2 years ago either took much longer or produced much poorer results or both.  I have not looked at recent developments but both Helicon and Zerene had focus controller software.  At the time I decided that lugging and setting up a netbook for each session was too much for me.  Not enough payback since I was getting what I needed in terms of image quality.
BertGF

Bert GF Shankman
Flower Artistry
www.cameraflora.com


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Steve Kale <stevekale@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> I have both Helicon and Zerene.  I never use Helicon anymore. In my view, Zerene is leagues better and the support Rik offers via www.photomacrography.net is second to none.
> 
> (I built a rig with dual Stackshot rails)
> 
> 
> On 29 Sep 2012, at 11:29, Ernst Dinkla wrote:
> 
> > Paul, getting back to this topic, with a Nexus 7 bought recently after 
> > its launch in EU there was my chance to use the Android DSLR Controller 
> > app made by Chainfire (actually a Dutch company J.B.Jongma) to control 
> > my 5D II. I guess the most feature rich DSLR controller available and 
> > still improving. Very impressed by it. You need a USB TGO cable for the 
> > Nexus or whatever compatible Android
> > 
> > http://dslrcontroller.com/
> > 
> > Focus bracketing aboard since January with gradual improvements after 
> > that according the development log. Is nice and flexible in use.
> > 
> > Did you use it?
> > What is the preferred stacker software now, Zerene was mentioned, 
> > Helicon too?
> > 
> > > 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

[Digital BW] Re: OT - Focus Stacking & Dual Focus

2012-10-01 by John

Ernst, did you have any trouble finding a cable adapter for the nexus7? I just noticed there is also an android Nikon controller. Been using the control my Nikon software on my laptop, but would be a lot handier with my nexus with my d800e!
John Nollendorfs
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Ernst Dinkla <e.dinkla@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> On 09/29/2012 11:23 PM, Paul Roark wrote:
> > Ernst,
> >
> >  > ...
> >  >
> >  > Canon could not have chosen a better moment than the introduction of the
> >  > 5D III for that feature. I[t] did not happen. ...
> >  >
> >
> > Actually, I wonder if powerful auto-focus-stacking is going to wait for the
> > mirror-less TTL cameras. The flopping mirror and some of the other ways in
> > which a traditional DLSR works may not be the best, going forward. I think
> > the evolution of live view, and the supporting chip and software
> > development are the among most interesting trends today.
> >
> > Paul
> > www.PaulRoark.com
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> The Android DSLR Controller app locks up the mirror right away when 
> focus bracketing is done. I still have to check what it delivers but 
> with a Sigma 50mm macro and large steps it goes from Infinity to 3 
> meters in 5 steps.
> 
> 
> -- 
> Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst
> 
> Dinkla Grafische Techniek
> Quad, piëzografie, giclée
> www.pigment-print.com
>

Re: [Digital BW] Re: OT - Focus Stacking & Dual Focus

2012-10-01 by Ernst Dinkla

On 10/01/2012 02:28 AM, John wrote:
>
> Ernst, did you have any trouble finding a cable adapter for the nexus7?
> I just noticed there is also an android Nikon controller. Been using the
> control my Nikon software on my laptop, but would be a lot handier with
> my nexus with my d800e!
> John Nollendorfs

John,

This is the reference page for the Android models usable with the Canon 
cameras:

http://dslrcontroller.com/devices.php

There is a link to Ebay ads for the appropriate cable per Android model. 
I would expect it is the same for the Nikon app. The USB TGO cable 
connects to the Nexus, the camera uses the normal USB cable.

Mine is a Odys Neo USB TGO cable from Conrad, a well known electronics 
source in the EU.

I have to figure out whether that connection + the app drains the Nexus 
7 accu so fast or my Nexus has a problem itself.


-- 
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

Dinkla Grafische Techniek
Quad, pi\ufffdzografie, gicl\ufffde
www.pigment-print.com

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