Digital BW, The Print

Dear All,

I have recently replaced my Epson 2100 with a 3880 and am greatly enjoying
its possibilities and its more economical cartridges.  Whilst one shakes
them in installation I would imagine that the pigment may settle with time
in the cartridges, which could cause altered tones on the prints.  Should I
remove them periodically to give them another shake and, if so, should this
be every week, month or whenever?

Yours,

John

-- 
John Beeching
http://johnbeeching.com/


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Yes, shake (roll hand over hand) very gently and preferably not  
immediately before making a print, let the bubbles settle. How often,  
depends on how often you make a print, if you print everyday they get  
shaken a bit during printing.

Mark
http://www.stillrivereditions.com

On May 5, 2010, at 3:50 PM, John Beeching wrote:

> Dear All,
>
> I have recently replaced my Epson 2100 with a 3880 and am greatly  
> enjoying
> its possibilities and its more economical cartridges.  Whilst one  
> shakes
> them in installation I would imagine that the pigment may settle  
> with time
> in the cartridges, which could cause altered tones on the prints.   
> Should I
> remove them periodically to give them another shake and, if so,  
> should this
> be every week, month or whenever?
>
> Yours,
>
> John
>
> -- 
> John Beeching
> http://johnbeeching.com/

Have YOU actually done this?  Does it not introduce a bubble into the line?

I do understand what you mean, not shake, but gently rock, like in the old days with chemistry in the developing tray <g>.


----- Mark Savoia <mark@...> wrote:

> Yes, shake (roll hand over hand) very gently and preferably not  
> immediately before making a print, let the bubbles settle. How often,  
> depends on how often you make a print, if you print everyday they get  
> shaken a bit during printing.

Yes, I have been doing it for years. Yes, like agitation of a dev  
tank, you do not need to do it much. Epson's claim is that if you  
print everyday -all day, you would never need to do this because the  
shake of the printer and using up the ink that fast would not give it  
enough time to settle.

Mark
http://www.stillrivereditions.com

On May 6, 2010, at 2:07 AM, -= Chris =- wrote:

> Have YOU actually done this?  Does it not introduce a bubble into  
> the line?
>
> I do understand what you mean, not shake, but gently rock, like in  
> the old days with chemistry in the developing tray <g>.

Mark, THANK YOU!

We'll try that and see if it helps.

I've been very lucky, and have not had any clogs.  But I've been away for 5 weeks, and I need to fire up the printer.

I'll give that a whirl.  After all, my fear could have occurred when I change the cartridge, so doing 'Le Shake' is in order.

-= CB =-

----- Mark Savoia <mark@...> wrote:

> Yes, I have been doing it for years.<snip> Epson's claim is that if you  
> print everyday -all day, you would never need to do this because the  
> shake of the printer and using up the ink that fast would not give it  
> enough time to settle.

Not sure if this applies to your particular cartridges but Inkjetmall has a video that shows how to use the 220ml refillable carts.  Towards the end they demonstrate several methods of shaking the cartridges.  My favorite is "agitate the printer". ;-)

video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyjI4tIGQ4Y
J.



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, John Beeching <johnbeeching@...> wrote:

>
> Dear All,
> 
> I have recently replaced my Epson 2100 with a 3880 and am greatly enjoying
> its possibilities and its more economical cartridges.  Whilst one shakes
> them in installation I would imagine that the pigment may settle with time
> in the cartridges, which could cause altered tones on the prints.  Should I
> remove them periodically to give them another shake and, if so, should this
> be every week, month or whenever?
> 
> Yours,
> 
> John
> 
> -- 
> John Beeching
> http://johnbeeching.com/
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Mark Savoia <mark@...> wrote:
>
> Yes, I have been doing it for years... like agitation of a dev  
> tank ...

I also routinely agitate my 7800 MIS carts before turning the printer on if it has sat for any significant length of time.  I've been pleasantly surprised that there has been no evidence of air getting into the lines.  It's made the relatively fast-settling dilute Eboni approach very easy and consistent.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

>... My favorite is "agitate the printer". ;-)
> 

I tried that with my old 7500 and it was not very effective for me.  It's great exercise, however.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Dear All,

Thanks for all the advice.  I will now gently shake and imagine that I am
back in the darkroom!

Yours,

John

On 6 May 2010 16:00, pr_roark <roark.paul@...> wrote:

>
>
> Mark Savoia <mark@...> wrote:
> >
> > Yes, I have been doing it for years... like agitation of a dev
> > tank ...
>
> I also routinely agitate my 7800 MIS carts before turning the printer on if
> it has sat for any significant length of time. I've been pleasantly
> surprised that there has been no evidence of air getting into the lines.
> It's made the relatively fast-settling dilute Eboni approach very easy and
> consistent.
>
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com
>
>  
>



-- 
John Beeching
http://johnbeeching.com/


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

All this shaking has me wondering. To get at the cartridges in my 1400, 
I have to use the change ink button. And of course, putting the 
cartridges back (after filling or agitating) causes a "new ink" cycle to 
occur in the printer, wasting my time, and, presumably, my ink. Even 
checking to see if the ink needs to be refilled causes it to waste more 
ink. Is there a better way? Push the ink button and pull the plug? Does 
everyone else suffer through these interminable cleaning cycles every 
time they want to examine the cartridges?

Andrew



On 05/06/2010 07:24 AM, mojojones2001 wrote:
>  
> 
> Not sure if this applies to your particular cartridges but Inkjetmall 
> has a video that shows how to use the 220ml refillable carts. Towards 
> the end they demonstrate several methods of shaking the cartridges. My 
> favorite is "agitate the printer". ;-)
> 
> video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyjI4tIGQ4Y 
> <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyjI4tIGQ4Y>
> J.
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
> <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>, John Beeching 
> <johnbeeching@...> wrote:
>  >
>  > Dear All,
>  >
>  > I have recently replaced my Epson 2100 with a 3880 and am greatly 
> enjoying
>  > its possibilities and its more economical cartridges. Whilst one shakes
>  > them in installation I would imagine that the pigment may settle with 
> time
>  > in the cartridges, which could cause altered tones on the prints. 
> Should I
>  > remove them periodically to give them another shake and, if so, 
> should this
>  > be every week, month or whenever?
>  >
>  > Yours,
>  >
>  > John
>  >
>  > --
>  > John Beeching
>  > http://johnbeeching.com/ <http://johnbeeching.com/>
>  >
>  >
>  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>  >
> 
> 

-- 
http://andrewsharpe.com

Does
> everyone else suffer through these interminable cleaning cycles every
> time they want to examine the cartridges?

How else is the printer going to get rid of the air that you let into the 
printhead/cartridge system when you disconnected the cartridge?

bob Frost
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Andrew Sharpe" <asharpe@...>

Shaking is usually done to re-suspend pigment. The carts we sell for large format hold about 350ml of ink. Epson recommends discarding a 220ml cart that has not been used up in less than six months. So pigment settling is an issue with pigment printers. Intermittent shaking therefore is a preventative to settling. Rather than wait six months to try and breath some more life into the ink, the idea is to not allow the pigment to settle at all.

For desktop carts, the biggest problem often is that an air pocket forms at the port. OR in initial filling that is not done with the vacuum method, it is possible that the air in the port does not get displaced by ink. Even vacuum filling often will not displace this air lock.

The port get's pierced by the ink stem of the printer head carriage and the tiny holes in the stem sometimes encounter the air. The piezo crystal acts like a little tiny pump in the print head and its not strong enough to counter the air pocket and get ink. Likewise the capping station which is a very strong pump sometimes can't either...

Shaking gently can work, but often does not dislodge air pockets. It's best for resuspending pigments. I believe Epson instructs the customer to gently shake the desktop cart before installing. They arguably have the best filling procedure in the industry. So if they have the occasional air pocket - one can imagine that the third-party carts will have more occasion to have air pockets.

For a cart with a nuisance air pocket, I usually put some folded paper toweling on a table, and then sharply rap the cart port side down directly onto the table. The paper towel will absorb any ink that might otherwise mark the table and provides some cushioning to the cart. The rapping seems to force the ink contents to replace the air pocket through the magic of gravity!  Imagine being on an elevator when the cable snaps....  That is what rapping the cart is trying to do...  not a pleasant thought, but trying to illustrate what gravity is trying to do... making the ink above the air pocket suddenly hit the bottom of the port...the air bubble is forced out and rises quickly to the top of the ink cart. 

Give it a go...

Jon Cone
Piezography

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "mojojones2001" <mojojones@...> wrote:

>
> Not sure if this applies to your particular cartridges but Inkjetmall has a video that shows how to use the 220ml refillable carts.  Towards the end they demonstrate several methods of shaking the cartridges.  My favorite is "agitate the printer". ;-)
> 
> video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyjI4tIGQ4Y
> J.
> 
> 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, John Beeching <johnbeeching@> wrote:
> >
> > Dear All,
> > 
> > I have recently replaced my Epson 2100 with a 3880 and am greatly enjoying
> > its possibilities and its more economical cartridges.  Whilst one shakes
> > them in installation I would imagine that the pigment may settle with time
> > in the cartridges, which could cause altered tones on the prints.  Should I
> > remove them periodically to give them another shake and, if so, should this
> > be every week, month or whenever?
> > 
> > Yours,
> > 
> > John
> > 
> > -- 
> > John Beeching
> > http://johnbeeching.com/
> > 
> > 
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>

Jon,

" I believe Epson instructs the customer to gently shake the desktop cart
before installing. "

Yes and at least the Epson R1900 carts, actually have a loose ball bearing
inside them to aid agitation when shaking. You can hear it rattling about.
Not that I actually use Epson carts of course :) But I shake the inks from
new printers, before I sell them off on ebay. With set of new carts fetching
about $90 it sure helps to reduce the cost of printer acquisition.

Mike



On 7 May 2010 17:36, piezobw <jon@inkjetmall.com> wrote:

>
>
> Shaking is usually done to re-suspend pigment. The carts we sell for large
> format hold about 350ml of ink. Epson recommends discarding a 220ml cart
> that has not been used up in less than six months. So pigment settling is an
> issue with pigment printers. Intermittent shaking therefore is a
> preventative to settling. Rather than wait six months to try and breath some
> more life into the ink, the idea is to not allow the pigment to settle at
> all.
>
> For desktop carts, the biggest problem often is that an air pocket forms at
> the port. OR in initial filling that is not done with the vacuum method, it
> is possible that the air in the port does not get displaced by ink. Even
> vacuum filling often will not displace this air lock.
>
> The port get's pierced by the ink stem of the printer head carriage and the
> tiny holes in the stem sometimes encounter the air. The piezo crystal acts
> like a little tiny pump in the print head and its not strong enough to
> counter the air pocket and get ink. Likewise the capping station which is a
> very strong pump sometimes can't either...
>
> Shaking gently can work, but often does not dislodge air pockets. It's best
> for resuspending pigments. I believe Epson instructs the customer to gently
> shake the desktop cart before installing. They arguably have the best
> filling procedure in the industry. So if they have the occasional air pocket
> - one can imagine that the third-party carts will have more occasion to have
> air pockets.
>
> For a cart with a nuisance air pocket, I usually put some folded paper
> toweling on a table, and then sharply rap the cart port side down directly
> onto the table. The paper towel will absorb any ink that might otherwise
> mark the table and provides some cushioning to the cart. The rapping seems
> to force the ink contents to replace the air pocket through the magic of
> gravity! Imagine being on an elevator when the cable snaps.... That is what
> rapping the cart is trying to do... not a pleasant thought, but trying to
> illustrate what gravity is trying to do... making the ink above the air
> pocket suddenly hit the bottom of the port...the air bubble is forced out
> and rises quickly to the top of the ink cart.
>
> Give it a go...
>
> Jon Cone
> Piezography
>
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com<DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>,
> "mojojones2001" <mojojones@...> wrote:
> >
> > Not sure if this applies to your particular cartridges but Inkjetmall has
> a video that shows how to use the 220ml refillable carts. Towards the end
> they demonstrate several methods of shaking the cartridges. My favorite is
> "agitate the printer". ;-)
> >
> > video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyjI4tIGQ4Y
> > J.
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com<DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>,
> John Beeching <johnbeeching@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Dear All,
> > >
> > > I have recently replaced my Epson 2100 with a 3880 and am greatly
> enjoying
> > > its possibilities and its more economical cartridges. Whilst one shakes
> > > them in installation I would imagine that the pigment may settle with
> time
> > > in the cartridges, which could cause altered tones on the prints.
> Should I
> > > remove them periodically to give them another shake and, if so, should
> this
> > > be every week, month or whenever?
> > >
> > > Yours,
> > >
> > > John
> > >
> > > --
> > > John Beeching
> > > http://johnbeeching.com/
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
>
>  
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In the past what I have done to get rid of annoying air pockets in the port is grab the little cotten-filled plug used to plug the air intake (when transporting the cart). I then take the cart out and tip it slightly so the port-end is down. I simply nudge the plug into the cart port and any excess ink that shoots out gets sopped up by the plug's cotton. This gets rid of air-bubbles nicely.  Gravity feed.

Walker


On May 7, 2010, at 12:36 PM, piezobw wrote:

> Shaking is usually done to re-suspend pigment. The carts we sell for large format hold about 350ml of ink. Epson recommends discarding a 220ml cart that has not been used up in less than six months. So pigment settling is an issue with pigment printers. Intermittent shaking therefore is a preventative to settling. Rather than wait six months to try and breath some more life into the ink, the idea is to not allow the pigment to settle at all.
> 
> For desktop carts, the biggest problem often is that an air pocket forms at the port. OR in initial filling that is not done with the vacuum method, it is possible that the air in the port does not get displaced by ink. Even vacuum filling often will not displace this air lock.
> 
> The port get's pierced by the ink stem of the printer head carriage and the tiny holes in the stem sometimes encounter the air. The piezo crystal acts like a little tiny pump in the print head and its not strong enough to counter the air pocket and get ink. Likewise the capping station which is a very strong pump sometimes can't either...
> 
> Shaking gently can work, but often does not dislodge air pockets. It's best for resuspending pigments. I believe Epson instructs the customer to gently shake the desktop cart before installing. They arguably have the best filling procedure in the industry. So if they have the occasional air pocket - one can imagine that the third-party carts will have more occasion to have air pockets.
> 
> For a cart with a nuisance air pocket, I usually put some folded paper toweling on a table, and then sharply rap the cart port side down directly onto the table. The paper towel will absorb any ink that might otherwise mark the table and provides some cushioning to the cart. The rapping seems to force the ink contents to replace the air pocket through the magic of gravity! Imagine being on an elevator when the cable snaps.... That is what rapping the cart is trying to do... not a pleasant thought, but trying to illustrate what gravity is trying to do... making the ink above the air pocket suddenly hit the bottom of the port...the air bubble is forced out and rises quickly to the top of the ink cart. 
> 
> Give it a go...
> 
> Jon Cone
> Piezography
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "mojojones2001" <mojojones@...> wrote:
> >
> > Not sure if this applies to your particular cartridges but Inkjetmall has a video that shows how to use the 220ml refillable carts. Towards the end they demonstrate several methods of shaking the cartridges. My favorite is "agitate the printer". ;-)
> > 
> > video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyjI4tIGQ4Y
> > J.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, John Beeching <johnbeeching@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Dear All,
> > > 
> > > I have recently replaced my Epson 2100 with a 3880 and am greatly enjoying
> > > its possibilities and its more economical cartridges. Whilst one shakes
> > > them in installation I would imagine that the pigment may settle with time
> > > in the cartridges, which could cause altered tones on the prints. Should I
> > > remove them periodically to give them another shake and, if so, should this
> > > be every week, month or whenever?
> > > 
> > > Yours,
> > > 
> > > John
> > > 
> > > -- 
> > > John Beeching
> > > http://johnbeeching.com/
> > > 
> > > 
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
> 
> 

Walker Blackwell
802.821.4451
www.walkerblackwell.com
aim: greendirtblues
wblackwell@...



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> " I believe Epson instructs the customer to gently shake the desktop cart
> before installing. "
>
> Yes and at least the Epson R1900 carts, actually have a loose ball bearing
> inside them to aid agitation when shaking.

I don't think you need to shake carts in a small Epson - the constant 
whizzing backwards and forwards while printing does it for you, and the 
ballbearing is there to improve this even more.

bob F.

> Epson recommends discarding a 220ml cart that has not been used up  
> in less than six months.

Does that mean that those old unopened 4800/7800 PK carts that I've  
not used since I bought the printers four years ago are toast? I  
bought them thinking I'd print glossy, but never did the switch. I do  
shake them and rotate them lovingly every few months.

Jim Parker
parkerparker :: design | photography
http://www.parkerparker.info
@dakkid / twitter







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

That's 6 months after opening - yours are unopened. They also have an expiry
date printed on them... not sure why - I think to avoid people keeping
asking how long to do they last.

In practice unopened and gently shaken regularily (say every couple months)
they should last a long time. How long - who knows what will go first. The
rubber seal on the cartridge mount ? The internal bag welding ?  Slow
evaporation through the bag ? Though the internal bags tend to be a foil
material rather than plastic. Presumably because plastic bags /films are
actually porous.

Let us know when you eventually use them ...

Mike

On 10 May 2010 14:19, James Parker <dakota.kid@mindspring.com> wrote:

>
>
> > Epson recommends discarding a 220ml cart that has not been used up
> > in less than six months.
>
> Does that mean that those old unopened 4800/7800 PK carts that I've
> not used since I bought the printers four years ago are toast? I
> bought them thinking I'd print glossy, but never did the switch. I do
> shake them and rotate them lovingly every few months.
>
> Jim Parker
> parkerparker :: design | photography
> http://www.parkerparker.info
> @dakkid / twitter
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>  
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I seem to remember some concern several years ago, when people discovered that their expired cartridges would not work in their printers.  The contact chips' logic kept them from printing.  I cannot remember the brand or the resolution.  I vaguely remember something about the manufacturer fixing that.  People did pay for the cartridges after all.  Does anyone remember the details?

Thanks



      

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]