Yahoo Groups archive

Digital BW, The Print

Index last updated: 2026-04-28 22:56 UTC

Message

Re: [Digital BW] Re: How to get this "3 dimensional quality"?

2006-11-22 by Brian Ellis

"Another example: when students begin to learn the Zone System they gain 
control over the overall contrast of an image by exposing for the highlights 
and developing for the shadows."

You've got that backwards. In the zone system you expose for the shadows and 
control the highlights through development.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <BKPhoto@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2006 5:02 PM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: How to get this "3 dimensional quality"?


Joost-

 Let's say an image has a wall in it. The overall impression is that the 
wall is one continuous tone. If you looked closely, though, this continous 
tone is actually a set or range of similar values. By seperating those local 
tonalities--increasing their relative differences--you increase the local 
contrast, and the dimensionality of that area of the image. You don't have 
to change the overall contrast of the print to affect that area, but it 
takes skill.

 Often, when students begin their apprenticeship to fine printing in the wet 
darkroom, it's all about seperating tonal values in the shadows. They learn 
that by properly exposing and developing the film, they can get detail and 
texture in dark areas that they couldn't get before. Eventually--and this 
usually takes a long time--they begin to realize that the real challenge 
isn't the shadows; that's pretty easy. It's controlling the subtle variation 
of tone in the highlights that often make a beautiful print.

 Another example: when students begin to learn the Zone System they gain 
control over the overall contrast of an image by exposing for the highlights 
and developing for the shadows. With high contrast scenes you quickly 
realize that the real challenge isn't controlling overall contrast. That's 
relatively easy to do. The problem is that reducing the overall contrast of 
a high contrast scene also reduces local contrast. Areas within the image 
are reduced in contrast and the image just looks flat and two dimensional. 
The "secret" is to control both the overall contrast of an image, and it's 
internal contrast.

 In Photoshop it's possible to have localized areas of low contrast, and 
areas of high contrast. Used well, this is a powerful technique. Combine 
this with localized sharpening and you can have an enormous effect on the 
way a print feels, and the way it's viewed.

 Hope that helps.

 Bill K.



 -----Original Message-----
 From: j.h.j.h@...
 To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
 Sent: Wed, 22 Nov 2006 3:13 PM
 Subject: [Digital BW] Re: How to get this "3 dimensional quality"?

     --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, BKPhoto@...
 wrote:
 Hi Bill,

 Thanks for your comment as well. Soem questions though:

 > I'd add to Tyler's comments that the illusive "three dimensional
 quality" idea is closely related to the internal tonal structure of
 an image. This has always been true, from the earliest photographic
 printing processes to inkjet printing. Wet darkroom printers often
 refer to this as the "internal contrast" of a print; the local
 contrast rather than the overall contrast. Internal contrast helps
 separate close values and, in my experience, this is a major
 contributor to that dimensional quality.

 I'm not sure I completely get what you mean. I'm having trouble to
 visualize the length scale of "local". Are you meaning the
 microstructure/texture, or over a more larger scale, let's say 5% of
 the image, typically parts of key objects. or both? Could you
 elaborate it bit furhter on this?

 > When you add hue, or subtle shifts in color, in a monochrome image
 you get an accumulative effect. The color is perceived as part of the
 internal contrast of the image.

 I think I understand that one.

 > Lastly, this sense of internal contrast is affected by any number
 of issues: the grain structure of the image, sharpness (optical and
 printing), and the size of the print.

 Not sure I understand this one, but as said before: I have some
 trouble understanding the concept.

 Joost


________________________________________________________________________
Check out the new AOL.  Most comprehensive set of free safety and security 
tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, 
free AOL Mail and more.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as 
they are often being updated.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to 
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same 
page.

Please follow these basic guidelines:
- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep 
them short.
- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. 
Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the 
membership without notice.
- Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W 
printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from 
the membership.
- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and 
guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and 
Moderators. See Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines in the Files section:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/

BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT 
YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE OWNER AND 
MODERATORS OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU 
FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY 
DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, 
GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  OWNER AND 
MODERATORS OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE 
POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY 
TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR 
ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY 
THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER 
MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.

Yahoo! Groups Links

Attachments

Move to quarantaine

This moves the raw source file on disk only. The archive index is not changed automatically, so you still need to run a manual refresh afterward.